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Re: Help needed with no trace no beamfinder on 465 (not b)


 

Hi Keith,

Obviously my suggestions are too cryptically for you. I hesitate to continue since in my opinion you should understand the purpose of test measurements, to learn something and also to protect the equipment and yourself from damage. But let me try to clarify my previous suggestions.
Q1418 is the heart of the oscillator. Oscillation occurs because of the feedback from collector to base provided by the windings 6-7 and 8-9 of the transformer. The voltage and current amplitude in these windings is determined by average base current which has to come from the regulator circuit, Q1416 emitter. The oscillator produces an up-transformed alternating voltage in the HV winding between pins 23 and 5 which is half-wave rectified by CR1421 to give a negative HV at C1421 to C1424 and CRT cathode.
A fault could be that one of these HV caps (or even C1488) starts to leak at say 70 V. That would put extra load on the oscillator in its start-up phase and and prevent the amplitude to rise further.
Another fault could be that CR1421 starts to leak, with the same consequence.
Both these fault would show up of you externally feed TP1423 with a high enough negative voltage (scope disconnected from the power inlet of course). I simply use my 576 curve tracer for this purpose but you have to improvise something. A DC supply, preferably variable, would be needed, with + to scope ground and ¨C to TP via a DMM. The DMM at say 200 V DC range. The DMM is 10 M (usually), the load on TP is about 30 M. So the DMM reading should be about 25% of the supply voltage and maintain that percentage when the supply voltage is increased. When the percentage starts to increase it indicates leakage somewhere, and you can also try to estimate how heavy that leakage is.
Of course this would eliminate only a leakage fault in the branch from CR1421.
A fault in the branche from pin 3 is not very likely, it¡¯s low voltage.
That leaves a fault in the transformer itself (any winding could be involved) or in the HV multiplier.

Suppose you disconnect P1400. Then you can supply an AC voltage across the collector winding between pin 1 of P1400 socket and the fuse holder terminal. I use a sine wave function generator for this. The generator output is w.r.t. generator ground, so I connect that side to the fuse and the live side to mentioned pin 1. (Additionally the fuse side can be shorted to scope ground to prevent any floating voltage levels inside the scope.) Some people use an audio amplifier.
This way I can control the input frequency an voltage amplitude. I also monitor the generator output current and the TP voltage. With all this information I can check that the resonance frequency is about what it should be (maybe 50 kHz for a 465? I didn¡¯t look it up) and also see if stange things happen if I increase the amplitude.

L1419 and C1418/C1419 mainly serve to prevent oscillator signals to enter 15 V elsewhere. I think that even without these C¡¯s the oscillator should still work.

Albert

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 05:50 pm, Keith Ostertag wrote:


Thanks for your continued help Albert. I _might_ be able to cobble together a
power supply in excess of 100V... but I am not understanding what that will
tell me, possibly because I am unsure of your use for the term leakage in this
context. Since TP1486 is in the secondary side of T1420 (correct?) how can
anything I do with it eliminate T1420 as a fault? For instance if T1420's
primary (inline with Q1418) is shorted or partially shorted? At least that 's
the question that comes to my mind, since I don't understand the circuit. What
if L1419 is shorted or partially shorted? And how does that eliminate (or
indicate) the HV multiplier as the fault?

Let's see... you are suggesting that I might "drive the collector winding from
an external source" by adding a negative voltage to TP1486 (which is connected
to the T1420's secondary), is that correct? So if I had a +200VDC power supply
I would connect the +200V positive terminal to ground and the negative
terminal to TP1486?

In the case I could obtain an power supply, where exactly would I measure the
leakage current and what level would be the pass/fail amount? I assume you
mean replace the fuse F1419 with an ammeter as I did before in order to
measure Q1418's collector current?

My only guess is... by adding voltage to the secondary, a working primary must
likewise increase, thus increasing the collector current. So... if it does not
increase Q1418's collector current then that suggests a problem with L1419 or
T1420 (or C1419)?

And if that is close to being correct as a strategy, then wouldn't slightly
increasing the positive voltage at the fuse test it similarly? I say that
assuming T1420's secondary is unlikely to have been damaged by anything I
might have shorted in front of it...

Oops... rereading your message I see:"Then you could see at which frequency it
resonates and how it responds to increasing primary amplitude.", which I
somehow missed in the above...

Let me start over... Q1418's circuit drives the signal taken from Q1416
through T1420, multiplying it by whatever the turns ratio of T1420 is. You are
suggesting I unplug Q1418 and replace it with a short? Then read the current
through F1419? Not sure how we are to read a resonate frequency when we are
not applying a sweep... Sorry, as you can see this is a bit over my head...

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