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Re: What size wire rope do you use for the centerboard pennant?
Jeremy,
I think Warren has pointed out why it might not be so easy to just upgrade the size of wire rope (thanks Warren). My information.html (file in the files section) says that the centerboard pennant is made up of 10' of 1/8" wire rope + 12' of 1/4" rope.? I don't think that the 1/8" wire rope even has to have a fancy weave like the 7x19 specified for the standing rigging - plain old 1/8" wire rope with however many strands it is made up with should do fine.? It may be worth spending a little extra on a SS version, if such does exist, as the wire attached to the centerboard will see frequent amounts of time in the water and will be likely to corrode/rust expecially up against dissimilar metal fittings.? So whatever material your wire rope is it should be compatible (the same) as the fittings/swages you may use.
There is a good reason that Tartan did not use dyneema originally for this application; dyneema would not be invented for another 40 or so years after production of these boats ended.? High tech high strength lines are a relatively recent newcomer in the rigging world with many applications that make sense on a boat, and many that don't make sense since dyneema wont hold most conventional knots.? What I love about Dyneema is it's low weight, super high strength (1/4" dyneema breaking point is around 6000#s) but it can easily be cut by a razor blade or knife, and thus is more succeptible to chafing than any wire rope.? I have also seen my centerboard trunk covered in barnacles after a season in our brachish/salty waters and we all know how sharp barncles can be.? For this reason alone I think that dyneema is unsuitable for this application (but you are more than welcome to try it out), I also think this system should have had a sheave for the wire rope just inside the centerboard trunk to keep it from sawing away at the inside of the trunk.
Best.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein via Groups.Io <wrsteinesq@...> To: T27Owners <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Jan 25, 2020 8:14 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] What size wire rope do you use for the centerboard pennant? I think the limiting factor may be the size of the hole at the edge of the center board. At least on my centerboard, there is a hole crossways, i.e. oriented as the hole for the pin; but there is also another hole, smaller, which runs from the aft edge of the center board perpendicularly and intersects with the crossways one.? The pennant enters the smaller hole and can push out either side of the crossways hole, so one can put a swage fitting on it.
This means that a bigger pennant requires a bigger hole.? And there is only so much Centerboard thickness to work with.? So I think thats the real limit. > On Jan 25, 2020, at 5:46 PM, jeremy@... wrote: > > ? > Hello, > > What size wire do you use for the centerboard pennant. I originally ordered the replacement cable from Tartan, but it seems it is only 1/8". That has a working load of 340lbs and a breaking strength around 1760lbs -- so, it should be plenty. But is it worthwhile to go up to a larger size ? > > At what point is the diameter too big? > > I know some people are experimenting with dyneema, but I am going to wait to hear how that works out before making the switch. Among other things, last time I got hauled out I couldn't drop my centerboard because a bunch of mussels, barnacles, or other hard, pointy things started growing in the centerboard trunk and actually jammed the centerboard in place. > > If those things started scraping on my centerboard pennant, I think stainless steel would fair better than dyneema. > > - jeremy > > |
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Re: What size wire rope do you use for the centerboard pennant?
I think the limiting factor may be the size of the hole at the edge of the center board. At least on my centerboard, there is a hole crossways, i.e. oriented as the hole for the pin; but there is also another hole, smaller, which runs from the aft edge of the center board perpendicularly and intersects with the crossways one. The pennant enters the smaller hole and can push out either side of the crossways hole, so one can put a swage fitting on it.
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This means that a bigger pennant requires a bigger hole. And there is only so much Centerboard thickness to work with. So I think thats the real limit. On Jan 25, 2020, at 5:46 PM, jeremy@... wrote: |
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What size wire rope do you use for the centerboard pennant?
Hello, What size wire do you use for the centerboard pennant. I originally ordered the replacement cable from Tartan, but it seems it is only 1/8". That has a working load of 340lbs and a breaking strength around 1760lbs -- so, it should be plenty. But is it worthwhile to go up to a larger size ? At what point is the diameter too big? I know some people are experimenting with dyneema, but I am going to wait to hear how that works out before making the switch. Among other things, last time I got hauled out I couldn't drop my centerboard because a bunch of mussels, barnacles, or other hard, pointy things started growing in the centerboard trunk and actually jammed the centerboard in place. If those things started scraping on my centerboard pennant, I think stainless steel would fair better than dyneema. - jeremy |
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Re: Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair
I've seen the hose reducers -- but I am not quite sure I understand how best to use them. It seems useful for connecting a large rigid tube to a smaller rigid tube. But if you are trying to go from large rigid tube to a smaller hose -- clamping a hose on a hose seems like trouble. I guess you'd also need some sort of nipple for the reducer and hose to slip over? ?- jeremy On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:31 AM Carl Damm <cfdamm@...> wrote: Pegasus hose reducer Silicone PN?SR38.25-BLACK |
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Re: Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair
I just filed down a red brass tube to fit inside the existing tube. The OD of the insert is now 0.834" or 21.18mm. This is the tube I used, It was originally 0.838" in OD -- so I didn't have to take it down much. Even after grinding it down, the wall thickness is 0.111" I'm still trying to figure out what I could put inside the inner tube to help protect it. Or maybe I just let the cable file away on it and replace it once every couple decades. Rather than repair the exit point of the tube where it got worn away, I added more glass and thickened epoxy on the inside of the boat to compensate.? Seemed wisest to ride the horse in the direction it was already going.? Here is a photo album -- I'll try to add a better photo of the damage at the bottom of the tube later. I also through in two photos with measures of the centerboard pin for good luck. Note that I have not cut the insert tube down to length yet. I am going to make it just a little bit longer than the existing tube so that I can get a pipe wrench on it later to remove it. I am undecided if I am going to rely entirely on friction to keep it in place, or use weak adhesive, such as Life-Caulk (polysulfide). To protect the insert from the cable I have considered: ?1. filling it with some sort of thickened epoxy -- and then drilling out a hole for the cable. But.. maybe there is a better substance for that than epoxy. ?2. creating a white oak or UHMW-PE 'donut' that sits on top and helps keep the cable centered. UHME-PE is supposed to be very abrasion resistant but also slippery. Both the white oak and the UHMW-PE will swell up when wet, so neither should be tight fitting. I have two other mild concerns: ? 1. That the expansion rate of the inside tube due to heat will be different enough from the outside tube that it will cause the outside tube to crack. I could perhaps file the inside tube down more and then rely on a sealant to account for the varying expansion rates. ? 2. That the differences between the existing bronze tube and red brass tube will result in the existing tube being weakened due to dezincification? galvanize corrosion? If the inside tube gets weakened that is ok. If it crumbles to bits, the outside tube should still have enough integrity to prevent the boat from sinking. But if the outside tube starts crumbling away, that would be bad. My hope is that since the tubes are more alike than different, neither of those issues is a concern.? I would prefer a real bronze tube, but red brass was the closest I could get. Some rumors say that much of what was sold as 'bronze tube' was really red brass anyway. Red brass has much less zinc than yellow brass. ?- jeremy On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 8:28 AM Bill talbot via Groups.Io <talbot.bill=[email protected]> wrote: Does someone know the dimensions of the inside of the tube. I am looking at a product called alumina. It is highly abrasion resistant . It actually comes in tube form . Was thinkig of sliding one tube form inside brass tube and using dynema . Surface of alumina would act like a slick surface for pennant to ride against it . Rubber sleeve would go right over brass tube as normal |
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Re: Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair
I can confirm that the chaffing is definitely worst at the top and bottom of the tube. On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 9:03 AM Warren Stein via Groups.Io <wrsteinesq=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair
Anything to reduce friction is good; but the real abrasion issue as I understand it isn't the pennant in whatever tube it's in.? Instead, it's where the pennant exits the tube at the bottom, inside the centerboard trunk.?? As the CB is raised and lowered, the angle of the lead changes, causing the pennant to chafe on the lower edge of the tube.? I think that's where the wear is happening.?? So if I'm right, the important thing would be to contour that lower exit point so it's rounded and doesn't have any sharp edges.?? There may also be some wear at the upper edge, as the angle changes; but primarily at the lower end...? I think.??
Warren Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill talbot via Groups.Io <talbot.bill@...> To: T27Owners <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Jan 21, 2020 9:28 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair Does someone know the dimensions of the inside of the tube. I am looking at a product called alumina. It is highly abrasion resistant . It actually comes in tube form . Was thinkig of sliding one tube form inside brass tube and using dynema . Surface of alumina would act like a slick surface for pennant to ride against it . Rubber sleeve would go right over brass tube as normal
> On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Carl Damm <cfdamm@...> wrote: > > ?The original hose was heater hose.? Marine exhaust is an excellent choice.? Also consider silicone exhaust and corrugated exhaust hose.? All have their good points.? I always use exhaust hose for any critical below water connections. > -- > Carl Damm > DAMSELv > 1976 #593 > Stuart Fl |
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Re: Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair
Does someone know the dimensions of the inside of the tube. I am looking at a product called alumina. It is highly abrasion resistant . It actually comes in tube form . Was thinkig of sliding one tube form inside brass tube and using dynema . Surface of alumina would act like a slick surface for pennant to ride against it . Rubber sleeve would go right over brass tube as normal
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On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Carl Damm <cfdamm@...> wrote: |
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Re: Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair
The original hose was heater hose.? Marine exhaust is an excellent choice.? Also consider silicone exhaust and corrugated exhaust hose.? All have their good points.? I always use exhaust hose for any critical below water connections.
-- Carl Damm DAMSELv 1976 #593 Stuart Fl |
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Re: Centerboard pennant fairlead tube repair
Pegasus hose reducer Silicone PN?SR38.25-BLACK
amazon.com/Pegasus-SR38-25-BLACK-Silicone-Straight-Reducer/dp/B00OR2CCU8/ref=sr_1_38?ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-a0047-win70-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&keywords=silicone+hose+reducer&qid=1579613315&sr=8-38 -- Carl Damm DAMSELv 1976 #593 Stuart Fl |
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Re: Books
Ralph,
Here are some links to pictures of the salon table:
/g/T27Owners/album?id=103968
/g/T27Owners/album?id=103926&p=Created,,,20,2,20,0
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: ralph cunningham via Groups.Io <freedomriverboat@...> To: T27Owners <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 9:26 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Books hi
my 27 had a carpet on cabin deck and no table when I got it. It has fitting for pipe recessed in deck floor. if anybody could help with instructions and specs to fabricate table and how table is stowed for berthing. details including pics would be good. thanks all Ralph On Friday, January 17, 2020, 1:52:53 PM CST, David Moir <david.moir@...> wrote:
Another book which is a fun story of a true character fixing up and his sailing a 27' cruiser around Massachusetts Bay, Cape Cod, and the Islands is Peter Baumgartner's "London Goes to Sea: Restoring and Sailing an Old Boat on a Budget."? His is a Cape Dory 27 rather than Tartan 27, but other? than? not having a centerboard or the A-4 gas engine, most all the other issues, concerns, and observations are so much in the same vein as Bailey's book.? He tells a very funny story indeed about anchoring in the Cuttyhunk bight outside the harbor.? Enjoy!
On 1/17/2020 12:41 PM, Robert Harvey wrote:
Just ordered The Coast of Summer by Anthony Bailey, 4 bucks and change from Abe Books, shipping included. Read the first 70 odd pages on a preview. Thanks to whomever mentioned the boat and book here, otherwise I may not have run into it. I grew up spending summers on Cape Cod,? and as a lifeguard on Ballston Beach in Truro would see Joel Meyerowitz carrying his huge camera around. I believe it was a Hasselblad. At the time everyone I knew there had a copy of his Cape Light book on their coffee table. So aside from the story of the adventure I knew I had to have the book whose cover photo he did. So far it's a nice story and I'm looking forward to the rest of it. The dream of sailing again keeps me going through fiberglass and epoxy work.
Regards, Rob.
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Re: Books
hi my 27 had a carpet on cabin deck and no table when I got it. It has fitting for pipe recessed in deck floor. if anybody could help with instructions and specs to fabricate table and how table is stowed for berthing. details including pics would be good. thanks all Ralph On Friday, January 17, 2020, 1:52:53 PM CST, David Moir <david.moir@...> wrote: Another book which is a fun story of a true character fixing up and his sailing a 27' cruiser around Massachusetts Bay, Cape Cod, and the Islands is Peter Baumgartner's "London Goes to Sea: Restoring and Sailing an Old Boat on a Budget."? His is a Cape Dory 27 rather than Tartan 27, but other? than? not having a centerboard or the A-4 gas engine, most all the other issues, concerns, and observations are so much in the same vein as Bailey's book.? He tells a very funny story indeed about anchoring in the Cuttyhunk bight outside the harbor.? Enjoy! On 1/17/2020 12:41 PM, Robert Harvey wrote: Just ordered The Coast of Summer by Anthony Bailey, 4 bucks and change from Abe Books, shipping included. Read the first 70 odd pages on a preview. Thanks to whomever mentioned the boat and book here, otherwise I may not have run into it. I grew up spending summers on Cape Cod,? and as a lifeguard on Ballston Beach in Truro would see Joel Meyerowitz carrying his huge camera around. I believe it was a Hasselblad. At the time everyone I knew there had a copy of his Cape Light book on their coffee table. So aside from the story of the adventure I knew I had to have the book whose cover photo he did. So far it's a nice story and I'm looking forward to the rest of it. The dream of sailing again keeps me going through fiberglass and epoxy work. Regards, Rob. |
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Re: The Coast of Summer
Rob,
Similar story here re h'cane Bob.? My parents had bought a wooded lot in East Hampton before I was born and my father built us a summer house there so I had been summering in that area most of my life.? In 1991 I had been there for my 32nd birthday on August 1st and had taken all the summer greenery for granted.? I then visited EH a few days after Bob and noted how that storm had turned summer into an early autumn after August 19th.? The greenery had been turned brown or red as the plants and trees were stressed by all the salt water the storm had blown over them.? Power was out and trees were down but I had to see the effects of the storm first hand being young and somewhat invincible.? I had done the same thing after hurricane Gloria in 1985.? I remember glorious weather days in the immediate aftermath of those storms even if the trees had been nearly stripped of leaves and the beaches all a bit re-sculpted. ?
The widespread power outages made finding ice for your Marguerita's difficult.? Somehow I endured without seeing Jimmy Buffett.
Enjoy the rest of "The Coast of Summer".
Our new Tappan Zee bridge (as I will always call it despite it's new name) is pretty impressive at night.? They put lights under each footing of the bridge and they can project many colors on it which is very impressive in the twilight.? I have been participating in club racing just north of the TZ bridge now for over 10 years.
I am always happy to meet other T27 owners if the planets align to allow it.? Email me if you are in the NYC/LI/CT area.
Regards,
Caleb D. T27 #328
NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Harvey <cswim093@...> To: T27Owners <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 2:19 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] The Coast of Summer Yeah, I remember Hurricane Bob. My gf at the time and I were on our way to the Cape, stopped in on a whim to see Jimmy Buffett at Greatwoods in Mass. He had brought his sailboat up to the Cape, and was complaining in jest that the Hurricane was following him around. Being young and invincible, we continued on to Truro undeterred.? It wasn't that bad there, the power went out and it went around us. But hey, I had the beach house to myself and I wasn't passing it up, storm or no storm
Thanks Caleb, was thinking of you a while back crossing the Hudson across the Tappan Zee. Yes I know it has a new name. Hope to meet you sometime, appreciate your work to keep it going. Sometimes it's about the boat, sometimes it's the connections made.
--Rob
On Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 2:05 PM Caleb Davison via Groups.Io <calebjess=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Books
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAnother book which is a fun story of a true character fixing up
and his sailing a 27' cruiser around Massachusetts Bay, Cape Cod,
and the Islands is Peter Baumgartner's "London Goes to Sea:
Restoring and Sailing an Old Boat on a Budget."? His is a Cape
Dory 27 rather than Tartan 27, but other? than? not having a
centerboard or the A-4 gas engine, most all the other issues,
concerns, and observations are so much in the same vein as
Bailey's book.? He tells a very funny story indeed about anchoring
in the Cuttyhunk bight outside the harbor.? Enjoy! On 1/17/2020 12:41 PM, Robert Harvey
wrote:
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Re: The Coast of Summer
Yeah, I remember Hurricane Bob. My gf at the time and I were on our way to the Cape, stopped in on a whim to see Jimmy Buffett at Greatwoods in Mass. He had brought his sailboat up to the Cape, and was complaining in jest that the Hurricane was following him around. Being young and invincible, we continued on to Truro undeterred.? It wasn't that bad there, the power went out and it went around us. But hey, I had the beach house to myself and I wasn't passing it up, storm or no storm Thanks Caleb, was thinking of you a while back crossing the Hudson across the Tappan Zee. Yes I know it has a new name. Hope to meet you sometime, appreciate your work to keep it going. Sometimes it's about the boat, sometimes it's the connections made. --Rob On Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 2:05 PM Caleb Davison via Groups.Io <calebjess=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: The Coast of Summer
Robert,
It may or may not have been me who recommended this book but I did read it many years ago when we first got our T27.? It was quite inspiring to read and really made me want to be able to cruise the LI Sound and environs as he did.? I remember Hurricane Bob (which comes up later in the book) and what it did to the extreme eastern end of LI.?
A great read for any sailor but especially any Tartan 27 owner.
My best,
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Harvey <cswim093@...> To: T27Owners <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 12:42 pm Subject: [T27Owners] Books Just ordered The Coast of Summer by Anthony Bailey, 4 bucks and change from Abe Books, shipping included. Read the first 70 odd pages on a preview. Thanks to whomever mentioned the boat and book here, otherwise I may not have run into it. I grew up spending summers on Cape Cod,? and as a lifeguard on Ballston Beach in Truro would see Joel Meyerowitz carrying his huge camera around. I believe it was a Hasselblad. At the time everyone I knew there had a copy of his Cape Light book on their coffee table. So aside from the story of the adventure I knew I had to have the book whose cover photo he did. So far it's a nice story and I'm looking forward to the rest of it. The dream of sailing again keeps me going through fiberglass and epoxy work.
Regards, Rob.
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Books
Just ordered The Coast of Summer by Anthony Bailey, 4 bucks and change from Abe Books, shipping included. Read the first 70 odd pages on a preview. Thanks to whomever mentioned the boat and book here, otherwise I may not have run into it. I grew up spending summers on Cape Cod,? and as a lifeguard on Ballston Beach in Truro would see Joel Meyerowitz carrying his huge camera around. I believe it was a Hasselblad. At the time everyone I knew there had a copy of his Cape Light book on their coffee table. So aside from the story of the adventure I knew I had to have the book whose cover photo he did. So far it's a nice story and I'm looking forward to the rest of it. The dream of sailing again keeps me going through fiberglass and epoxy work. Regards, Rob. |
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FW: Tartan 27 For Sale
From: David Smith ??????????????????????????????????????
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 10:48 AM To: T27Owners Moderator <T27Owners-owner@...> Subject: Tartan 27 For Sale ? ? ? Classic 1969 Tartan 27 Hull #412, Great Lakes Boat! ??Located in Sturgeon Bay WI Complete in Good Condition LOA 27¡¯, Beam 8.5¡¯, draft 39¡± CDI roller furling, spinnaker, mainsail and several hank on head sails ¨C good condition Well maintained universal atomic 4 with CDI 2 blade propeller upgrade, 20 gallon fuel tank Rebuilt enclosed marine head and new Nauta holding tank Custom winter cover ($1500) Autohelm 800, extra tiller Interior cushions in good condition Origo cook stove, galley sink with electric pump, 30 gallon fresh water tank New diaphram on ¡°Gusher¡± manual bildge pump LED cabin lights, running lights and stern light re-wired Marine radio and brand new depth finder ? Madison, Milwaukee Craigslist $7500??? call or text Dave? (608) 886-3743 ? ? David Smith Edgewood College Professor of Art
? ? |
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