Re: Clear Window/Port Replacement For a 1967 Boat
Scott, One excellent resource is the blog called . He details the replacement of fixed lights on I think it's a Pearson. He dispenses with the screwed frame and relies on overlapping?the plexi on the cabin house. This is what I will do if I can manage to get back to fixing my T27.
BTW, if anyone is looking for a very cheap T27, I am moving and at some point will need to find a new home for mine. While needy (fixed lights, rebed deck hdwr, CB,?rudder repair,?surface treatments, etc.) she's not a derelict. It just seems like it may be time for another skipper to love her back into the water.?
Alan
About 13 years ago I replaced mine #226. After I removed the screws, I had to gradually work the aluminum? Lipton free it up . On did start to crack so I worked slower. I used acrylic as original. I only 100% silicone. The research I did said that many other chalks will react with acrylic. Good luck.
John Bailey
> On Mar 25, 2023, at 7:03 AM, SCOTT ROSASCO via <srosa25043=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?
> ?
> ?Does anyone have any experience in replacing the 50+ year old, scratched and crazed porthole windows on each side of the main cabin? I got the interior screws out of the aluminum frame no problem, so now what? Seems like it would be very easy to permanently damage the thin aluminum interior frame by prying with a screwdriver. Is that just a flat frame or is it a whole window unit? Any idea what type of adhesive might be holding it all in? All I want to do is replace the clear plastic with new. I want to maintain the existing opening shapes, as they are vintage 1960¡¯s.
>
> The head port is more of a standard glass port. I could see just replacing that with new at some point.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Clear Window/Port Replacement For a 1967 Boat
About 13 years ago I replaced mine #226. After I removed the screws, I had to gradually work the aluminum Lipton free it up . On did start to crack so I worked slower. I used acrylic as original. I only 100% silicone. The research I did said that many other chalks will react with acrylic. Good luck.
John Bailey
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Show quoted text
On Mar 25, 2023, at 7:03 AM, SCOTT ROSASCO via groups.io <srosa25043@...> wrote:
?
?
?Does anyone have any experience in replacing the 50+ year old, scratched and crazed porthole windows on each side of the main cabin? I got the interior screws out of the aluminum frame no problem, so now what? Seems like it would be very easy to permanently damage the thin aluminum interior frame by prying with a screwdriver. Is that just a flat frame or is it a whole window unit? Any idea what type of adhesive might be holding it all in? All I want to do is replace the clear plastic with new. I want to maintain the existing opening shapes, as they are vintage 1960¡¯s.
The head port is more of a standard glass port. I could see just replacing that with new at some point.
|
Clear Window/Port Replacement For a 1967 Boat
?
?
?Does anyone have any experience in replacing the 50+ year old, scratched and crazed porthole windows on each side of the main cabin? I got the interior screws out of the aluminum frame no problem, so now what? Seems like it would be very easy to permanently damage the thin aluminum interior frame by prying with a screwdriver. Is that just a flat frame or is it a whole window unit? Any idea what type of adhesive might be holding it all in? All I want to do is replace the clear plastic with new. I want to maintain the existing opening shapes, as they are vintage 1960¡¯s.
The head port is more of a standard glass port. I could see just replacing that with new at some point.
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Re: FOR SALE: 1970 Hull #471 "Chickadee"
I find FB market place to be rubbish. It generates hundreds of scam inquiries.?
But I like the forums. They generally stay on topic. The bigger more general forums can get side ways, but I find the small specific groups like tartan 27 stay on track.
I do prefer forum specific platforms like Groups IO.
--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
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Re: Schock Tartan 27 for sale California
For what it's worth, I only know my hull number from the title. I
learned later from this group that the WDSchock Tartan maker's plates
were plastic and mounted on the headliner where the doghouse roof
slopes down. Probably someone at some point hit their head on it and
knocked it free, in both of our cases.
Tell whoeever you sell to that we're here for encouragement and
support and I'll pass that along whereever I can.
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On 3/13/23, peter_renders <peterjnrenders@...> wrote: I have no information on the hull number. The prior owner had the boat for
30 years and also claimed they were unaware of the hull number.
The coaming is just painted over and the rub rail was replaced with the
current aluminum toe rail. I really liked this boat and it had been very
well upgraded by the prior owner and myself. I enjoyed sailing her for the
past twelve years.
Thanks for your comments.
Cheers,
Peter
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Re: Schock Tartan 27 for sale California
I have no information on the hull number.? The prior owner had the boat for 30 years and also claimed they were unaware of the hull number.
The coaming is just painted over and the rub rail was replaced with the current aluminum toe rail.? I really liked this boat and it had been very well upgraded by the prior owner and myself.? I enjoyed sailing her for the past twelve years.
Thanks for your comments.
Cheers, Peter?
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Re: Schock Tartan 27 for sale California
Oh hey another WD Schock build. Good catch and thanks for passing
that along. No indication of the hull number. Always interesting to
see differences. In the one year between '65 (#93) and '66, looks
like they dropped the mahogany coaming and teak rubrail (or maybe the
rubrail was changed out by an owner... mine is worse for the wear...
need to replace sections of it entirely). Settee is different. Looks
beautifully kept up.
Cheers,
-scott
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On 3/9/23, peter_renders <peterjnrenders@...> wrote: This boat was built under license by Shock on the west coast and is
currently residing in the San Diego area.
Here is the Craigslist link.
Good Sailing Everyone,
Peter
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Schock Tartan 27 for sale California
This boat was built under license by Shock on the west coast and is currently residing in the San Diego area.
Here is the Craigslist link.
Good Sailing Everyone,
Peter
|
Hey Folks,
This spring, I'm going to be doing some repairs and ultimately painting the 6-8" above the rub rail on my Tartan 27-2. I'm entertaining removing the rub rail to make repairs and painting easier, but I'm not sure if the removal trade off is worth it especially since our rub rail condition right now is good.
1. Has anyone here gone through this process of having to remove and/or repair a rub rail on a T27-2? How was it?
2. Were you able to re-use the existing rub rail or were you able to source a replacement somewhere? If replacement, from where?
Thanks all!
Traci
Dawn, #663
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Hi B P,
Yes, I was able to raise the rudder enough to get the bottom of the rudder shaft back into?the bronze lower shoe/gudgeon.? The bottom part of the rudder shaft was also able to escape the lower shoe/gudgeon on its own.? When that happened, I was afraid that the only thing holding the rudder in the boat was the tiller head assembly, which is fastened with a keyway.? I can only surmise that my rudder shaft, probably original and made of Bronze was probably about 1" longer than it needed to be.? That meant that the lower shoe/gudgeon would have taken most of the weight of the rudder, which would explain the wearing away of the thickness of the lower shoe/gudgeon such that I had to introduce a Bronze bushing in this area to take up the slop.??
I have heard the Tartan 27 referred to as one of the first production boats.? This does not mean that each one was identical once it rolled out the factory doors. Each boat was put together by hand, or many hands.? I'd also venture that if each boat were built within the intended tolerances that Warren would be correct - the rudder was never meant to be able to escape the lower shoe/gudgeon. I found a basic Bronze flanged bearing that I had to grind town to fit the space in the lower shoe/gudgeon.? I would not have liked to try to do that with the boat in the water.? I had to sneak up on the right dimensions while grinding.? Once I got that bearing in there the rudder shaft remained captive and never got loose again (although there may have been about 1/2" of play in the rudder shaft - it could be raised about that much).? If the rudder shaft is the correct length, there may be no play at all in this system.? Of course, you could remove the tiller head and theoretically the shaft could fall out the bottom of the boat (if it were free of the lower shoe).
Good luck.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: B P <blurise2@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2022 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
Hello Caleb, Thank you,
So you were able to slide the shaft up far enough to be able to drop the rudder back into that lower gudgeon without loosening it??
That's what I am trying to find out before trying it... I was hoping there was a little extra length on the shaft to push it up Past the boot then drop it in...
Thank you Jeremy for the great pic! It is the only one I have seen yet!
On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 4:37 PM Caleb Davison via <calebjess= [email protected]> wrote:
I am pretty sure there is no set number of screws that hold in that lower gudgeon plate.? Different years had different suppliers and even changes within the same build season.? I will say that no two boats were absolutely identical.??
If his prop shaft is already out of the boat, then no need to remove that.? When we first got #328 the rudder was a tad loose and the rudder would find a way to sneak out of the lower gudgeon unsupported.? This made me a little nervous that I might drop the entire rudder and shaft, so I shopped around for a bronze bushing that I ground down to fill up the space in the lower gudgeon.? I was able to manipulate the rudder shaft up and back into the lower gudgeon with my new bearing in it.? The lower bearing took out most of the play and the rudder was never loose on the lower end again.
Best,
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremy@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2022 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
The boot only has four screws. The shaft coupler has 3. But if the shaft is already removed, then I guess you just have 4.
If it is easy for you to get under the boat on scuba and try to remove the screws, I guess it wouldn't hurt. If you are paying a diver to do the job for you -- there is a good chance of failure.
I have attached a photo.
- jeremy
Thank you for the reply!
So the Boot is the 7 screws you mentioned?
Yes, I only need to do that, there is no prop shaft, motor was removed, rudder is off the boat.
The comment about "scuba" is exactly what I was hoping to try before pulling the boat....
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:41 PM < jeremy@...> wrote:
Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear.
It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down -- it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question...
I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!!
Blu
|
A related and likely very bad idea, has anyone tried beaching a Tartan 27?
As described here, this can end badly:
As the comments note, to (maybe) pull this off, you need to be leaned
against an incline (versus leaned against a decline that puts you
upside down).
Also remembering an earlier post where someone added a shaft coupler.
That could get you better footing in a shallower shoal and avoid
having to remove the shoe.
-scott, #93
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 12/5/22, Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...> wrote: These boats were built over many decades, and even in two locations, so many
things might differ. But I am saying that NO, on Hull No.90 it was NOT
possible to raise the rudder up and slip it past the shoe (it¡¯s a rudder
shoe, not a boot.) And even if there had been enough vertical travel to do
that, I doubt there was sufficient side-to-side play to allow the rudder to
be sufficiently offset to clear the shoe. Again, your mileage may vary.
Also, the shoe that was original had a full-length crack, something I¡¯ve
never seen in a bronze casting. I replaced it with an updated stainless
shoe from Tartan. So you are foregoing the opportunity to do a decent
inspection of the shoe, anyway.
As others have said, this will be a difficult job in the water. The rudder
and rudder post is pretty heavy. While it will weigh less in the water,
what is your plan to control it, once you¡¯re in deep enough water to allow
the rudder to drop low enough for the top of the post to be below the bottom
of the tube? How are you going to lift it? Remember, once the shaft
starts going up into the tube, you can no longer grab the shaft, and nobody
topside can, either. I doubt you can generate enough thrust with just your
flippers! So I think you¡¯ll need to plan on standing on the bottom. Maybe
you can find a spot with a firm enough bottom that you¡¯re not sinking in the
mud when you stand on it. You¡¯d need the depth to be just right: deep
enough to drop the rudder, but shallow enough that you can stand on the
bottom and still lift the rudder. And since the whole assembly is (I¡¯m
guessing) about six feet or so long, that may be (pardon the pun) a tall
order.
Here¡¯s one possible idea: might you drill a small hole in the top of the
rudder post, thread it, and use that to fasten a line or a strap which would
be fed down thru the rudder shaft tube? That way your topside person could
pull it up, and at least you wouldn¡¯t as likely lose it. Yes,
theoretically the hole could weaken the top of the post, so I¡¯d keep the
hole small.
I get it: nothing ventured, nothing gained. But nothing lost, either; and
it¡¯s not hard to see the loss of the rudder, at least without the strap.
Be careful.
Warren Stein, Hull No. 90, Seanachie
-----Original Message-----
From: B P <blurise2@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2022 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
Hello Caleb, Thank you,
So you were able to slide the shaft up far enough to be able to drop the
rudder back into that lower gudgeon without loosening it??
That's what I am trying to find out before trying it... I was hoping there
was a little extra length on the shaft to push it up Past the boot then drop
it in...
Thank you Jeremy for the great pic! It is the only one I have seen yet!
On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 4:37 PM Caleb Davison via groups.io
<calebjess@...> wrote:
I am pretty sure there is no set number of screws that hold in that lower
gudgeon plate. Different years had different suppliers and even changes
within the same build season. I will say that no two boats were absolutely
identical.
If his prop shaft is already out of the boat, then no need to remove that.
When we first got #328 the rudder was a tad loose and the rudder would find
a way to sneak out of the lower gudgeon unsupported. This made me a little
nervous that I might drop the entire rudder and shaft, so I shopped around
for a bronze bushing that I ground down to fill up the space in the lower
gudgeon. I was able to manipulate the rudder shaft up and back into the
lower gudgeon with my new bearing in it. The lower bearing took out most of
the play and the rudder was never loose on the lower end again.
Best,Caleb DT27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremy@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2022 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
The boot only has four screws. The shaft coupler has 3. But if the shaft is
already removed, then I guess you just have 4.
If it is easy for you to get under the boat on scuba and try to remove the
screws, I guess it wouldn't hurt. If you are paying a diver to do the job
for you -- there is a good chance of failure.
I have attached a photo.
- jeremy
On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 9:09 AM B P <blurise2@...> wrote:
Thank you for the reply!
So the Boot is the 7 screws you mentioned?
Yes, I only need to do that, there is no prop shaft, motor was removed,
rudder is off the boat.The comment about "scuba" is exactly what I was
hoping to try before pulling the boat....
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:41 PM <jeremy@...> wrote:
Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as
well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major
ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear.
It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down --
it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to
account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in
the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws
out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the
sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to
remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because
it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old
rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the
hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder
installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those
screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 1:44 PM B P <blurise2@...> wrote:
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I
have what may be a stupid question...I have to replace a repaired rudder,
the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in
must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the
water?
Thank you for any info!!!Blu
|
These boats were built over many decades, and even in two locations, so many things might differ. ?But I am saying that NO, on Hull No.90 it was NOT possible to raise the rudder up and slip it past the shoe (it¡¯s a rudder shoe, not a boot.) ? And even if there had been enough vertical travel to do that, I doubt there was sufficient side-to-side play to allow the rudder to be sufficiently offset to clear the shoe. ?Again, your mileage may vary.
Also, the shoe that was original had a full-length crack, something I¡¯ve never seen in a bronze casting. ?I replaced it with an updated stainless shoe from Tartan. ?So you are foregoing the opportunity to do a decent inspection of the shoe, anyway. ?
As others have said, this will be a difficult job in the water. ?The rudder and rudder post is pretty heavy. ?While it will weigh less in the water, what is your plan to control it, once you¡¯re in deep enough water to allow the rudder to drop low enough for the top of the post to be below the bottom of the tube? ? How are you going to lift it? ?Remember, once the shaft starts going up into the tube, you can no longer grab the shaft, and nobody topside can, either. ?I doubt you can generate enough thrust with just your flippers! ? So I think you¡¯ll need to plan on standing on the bottom. ?Maybe you can find a spot with a firm enough bottom that you¡¯re not sinking in the mud when you stand on it. ?You¡¯d need the depth to be just right: ?deep enough to drop the rudder, but shallow enough that you can stand on the bottom and still lift the rudder. ?And since the whole assembly is (I¡¯m guessing) about six feet or so long, that may be (pardon the pun) a tall order.?
Here¡¯s one possible idea: ?might you drill a small hole in the top of the rudder post, thread it, and use that to fasten a line or a strap which would be fed down thru the rudder shaft tube? ? That way your topside person could pull it up, and at least you wouldn¡¯t as likely lose it. ? Yes, theoretically the hole could weaken the top of the post, so I¡¯d keep the hole small.
I get it: nothing ventured, nothing gained. ? But nothing lost, either; and it¡¯s not hard to see the loss of the rudder, at least without the strap. ? Be careful.?
Warren Stein, Hull No. 90, Seanachie
-----Original Message-----
From: B P <blurise2@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2022 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
Hello Caleb, Thank you,
So you were able to slide the shaft up far enough to be able to drop the rudder back into that lower gudgeon without loosening it??
That's what I am trying to find out before trying it... I was hoping there was a little extra length on the shaft to push it up Past the boot then drop it in...
Thank you Jeremy for the great pic! It is the only one I have seen yet!
On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 4:37 PM Caleb Davison via <calebjess= [email protected]> wrote:
I am pretty sure there is no set number of screws that hold in that lower gudgeon plate.? Different years had different suppliers and even changes within the same build season.? I will say that no two boats were absolutely identical.??
If his prop shaft is already out of the boat, then no need to remove that.? When we first got #328 the rudder was a tad loose and the rudder would find a way to sneak out of the lower gudgeon unsupported.? This made me a little nervous that I might drop the entire rudder and shaft, so I shopped around for a bronze bushing that I ground down to fill up the space in the lower gudgeon.? I was able to manipulate the rudder shaft up and back into the lower gudgeon with my new bearing in it.? The lower bearing took out most of the play and the rudder was never loose on the lower end again.
Best,
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremy@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2022 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
The boot only has four screws. The shaft coupler has 3. But if the shaft is already removed, then I guess you just have 4.
If it is easy for you to get under the boat on scuba and try to remove the screws, I guess it wouldn't hurt. If you are paying a diver to do the job for you -- there is a good chance of failure.
I have attached a photo.
- jeremy
Thank you for the reply!
So the Boot is the 7 screws you mentioned?
Yes, I only need to do that, there is no prop shaft, motor was removed, rudder is off the boat.
The comment about "scuba" is exactly what I was hoping to try before pulling the boat....
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:41 PM < jeremy@...> wrote:
Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear.
It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down -- it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question...
I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!!
Blu
|
Hello Caleb, Thank you,
So you were able to slide the shaft up far enough to be able to drop the rudder back into that lower gudgeon without loosening it??
That's what I am trying to find out before trying it... I was hoping there was a little extra length on the shaft to push it up Past the boot then drop it in...
Thank you Jeremy for the great pic! It is the only one I have seen yet!
On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 4:37 PM Caleb Davison via <calebjess= [email protected]> wrote:
I am pretty sure there is no set number of screws that hold in that lower gudgeon plate.? Different years had different suppliers and even changes within the same build season.? I will say that no two boats were absolutely identical.??
If his prop shaft is already out of the boat, then no need to remove that.? When we first got #328 the rudder was a tad loose and the rudder would find a way to sneak out of the lower gudgeon unsupported.? This made me a little nervous that I might drop the entire rudder and shaft, so I shopped around for a bronze bushing that I ground down to fill up the space in the lower gudgeon.? I was able to manipulate the rudder shaft up and back into the lower gudgeon with my new bearing in it.? The lower bearing took out most of the play and the rudder was never loose on the lower end again.
Best,
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremy@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2022 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
The boot only has four screws. The shaft coupler has 3. But if the shaft is already removed, then I guess you just have 4.
If it is easy for you to get under the boat on scuba and try to remove the screws, I guess it wouldn't hurt. If you are paying a diver to do the job for you -- there is a good chance of failure.
I have attached a photo.
- jeremy
Thank you for the reply!
So the Boot is the 7 screws you mentioned?
Yes, I only need to do that, there is no prop shaft, motor was removed, rudder is off the boat.
The comment about "scuba" is exactly what I was hoping to try before pulling the boat....
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:41 PM < jeremy@...> wrote:
Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear.
It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down -- it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question...
I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!!
Blu
|
I am pretty sure there is no set number of screws that hold in that lower gudgeon plate.? Different years had different suppliers and even changes within the same build season.? I will say that no two boats were absolutely identical.??
If his prop shaft is already out of the boat, then no need to remove that.? When we first got #328 the rudder was a tad loose and the rudder would find a way to sneak out of the lower gudgeon unsupported.? This made me a little nervous that I might drop the entire rudder and shaft, so I shopped around for a bronze bushing that I ground down to fill up the space in the lower gudgeon.? I was able to manipulate the rudder shaft up and back into the lower gudgeon with my new bearing in it.? The lower bearing took out most of the play and the rudder was never loose on the lower end again.
Best,
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremy@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2022 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
The boot only has four screws. The shaft coupler has 3. But if the shaft is already removed, then I guess you just have 4.
If it is easy for you to get under the boat on scuba and try to remove the screws, I guess it wouldn't hurt. If you are paying a diver to do the job for you -- there is a good chance of failure.
I have attached a photo.
- jeremy
Thank you for the reply!
So the Boot is the 7 screws you mentioned?
Yes, I only need to do that, there is no prop shaft, motor was removed, rudder is off the boat.
The comment about "scuba" is exactly what I was hoping to try before pulling the boat....
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:41 PM < jeremy@...> wrote:
Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear.
It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down -- it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question...
I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!!
Blu
|
The boot only has four screws. The shaft coupler has 3. But if the shaft is already removed, then I guess you just have 4.
If it is easy for you to get under the boat on scuba and try to remove the screws, I guess it wouldn't hurt. If you are paying a diver to do the job for you -- there is a good chance of failure.
I have attached a photo.
- jeremy
Thank you for the reply!
So the Boot is the 7 screws you mentioned?
Yes, I only need to do that, there is no prop shaft, motor was removed, rudder is off the boat. The comment about "scuba" is exactly what I was hoping to try before pulling the boat....
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:41 PM < jeremy@...> wrote: Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear. It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down -- it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question... I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!! Blu
|
Thank you for the reply!
So the Boot is the 7 screws you mentioned?
Yes, I only need to do that, there is no prop shaft, motor was removed, rudder is off the boat. The comment about "scuba" is exactly what I was hoping to try before pulling the boat....
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:41 PM < jeremy@...> wrote: Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear. It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down -- it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question... I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!! Blu
|
Ahoy,
Boot must come off. And.. you'll probably have to remove the prop shaft as well.
I removed the boot once while the boat was on the hard and it was a major ordeal. Definitely would not want to try to do it while in scuba gear. It is also important to note that the rudder does not slide straight down -- it is at a bit of an angle. So if you have it blocked up -- you need to account for that.
The ideal solution would be to remove the rudder while the boat is still in the sling. But, it is probably going to take hours to get the stupid screws out. So you'd need a place that will allow you to leave your boat in the sling overnight while you work on it. Since you also (probably) have to remove the prop shaft -- that makes the time required even worse -- because it is often hard to get the shaft out of the coupler.
Now -- in your case the shaft is broken. In theory you could remove the old rudder by taking a sawzall to the rudder post above the rudder and below the hull. But you'd still have to remove the shoe to get the replacement rudder installed. So, might as well take the shoe off in the first step.
So, it is possible, but not practical.
In theory, this is as simple as unscrewing 7 screws. But, in practice, those screws are probably all seized up.
- jeremy
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question... I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!! Blu
|
I¡¯m not sure if you could maybe get the broken one OUT while still in the water, maybe; but I don¡¯t see how you could reasonably get a new one in while still in the water. ? In order to install the new one, you need to lift it up from below, of course. ?And since the rudder and shaft is a single integrated unit, you need to drop the bottom of the rudder quite low. ?For example, I had to dig a pit under the boat in order to drop the new rudder into the hole, in order to get the top of the shaft low enough to enter the bottom of the shaft tube. ?It¡¯s a relatively long shaft and the fit in the tube is reasonably close, so there¡¯s not a lot of side-to-side wiggle room; ?it¡¯s a pretty straight shot. ?And the rudder shoe might not allow for that straight shot.
And then there¡¯s the issue of stepping the new rudder on the shoe. ?Even if the shoe could somehow be evaded with sufficient wiggle room to allow you to insert the shaft into the tube, it is NOT the case that you can lift the rudder high enough to pop it up-and-over the shoe. ?So I¡¯m saying the shoe has to come off.
Now, with enough ingenuity, almost anything is possible. ?I¡¯m not saying you couldn¡¯t remove the shoe, drop the old rudder, install the new rudder, and re-install the show, all while in scuba gear. ?I guess you could. ? But what a god-awful pain in the ass it would be! ?My suggestion is, do it on the hard. ?Best of luck¡ªWarren Stein, Hull No. 90, Seanachie
-----Original Message-----
From: B P <blurise2@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2022 2:43 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Rudder help?
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question...
I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!!
Blu
|
Hello all...
I am not an experienced T27 owner, and have learned quite a bit here, but I have what may be a stupid question... I have to replace a repaired rudder, the shaft was broken, and hope someone knows if the boot the rudder sits in must be out of the water to access?
In other words, is it possible to replace the rudder with the boat in the water?
Thank you for any info!!! Blu
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Re: FOR SALE: 1970 Hull #471 "Chickadee"
Sold via Craigslist. Sweet boat. Gonna miss her. Thank you.?
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