Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
I think you misunderstand. The board is out. We are limited only by how high the travel lift operator was willing to go up. See the picture.
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On Oct 21, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...> wrote:
锘� I also think you should drop the board, because if the board is bad in the spot you show, it will likely have some pin issues, too, or maybe pennant-attachment issues. 听It would be frustrating indeed to spend the time and aggravation fixing the split in place, only to find that now you have to drop it anyway to deal with the pin or the pennant. 听 听 听 听 听 听FWIW: 听Home Depot and other similar stores sell a modern version of what were once lag screws. 听 Now they have Torx- or similar heads with integral washers, on shanks that are significantly skinnier than the DEEP threads. 听 Once you sink them into something, they have a hell of a bite! 听 But yes, you CAN back them out, too. 听So if you can鈥檛 get the board out of the slot, perhaps you could drill into the lower, trailing edge of the board, that鈥檚 already exposed to you, and put one or more of these into the edge of the board that鈥檚 exposed, and work a sort of 2x4 lever arrangement to extract the board from the slot. 听Sure, you鈥檇 have to fill the screw holes with thickened epoxy; but that鈥檚 the least of it. 听听 On Oct 21, 2020, at 5:10 PM, jeremy@... wrote:
锘� Do you plan to drop the centerboard or repair it in place?
Given what I see in the photo, I'd drop the whole thing and see what other horrors are hidden above the centerboard trunk line.
- jeremy
听颁补濒别产,
Thanks. We had an opinion that the slot had something to do with letting the centerboard cable into the board, but I don鈥檛 think so. My thought was to drill one or two small holes In the sides near the slot and let it drain over the winter. Then in the spring fill it with epoxy, mixed with some chopped roving and squeeze it tight with some clamps and hope for the best.
锘�
Hi Scott,
I'm going to say that doesn't look right or good.听 It is not often that I have seen that side of my centerboard but I certainly do not remember seeing any crevice on any side of it.听 It may be worth giving that crevice a quick sand and fill it in with some adhesive.听 You could do that in the spring before launching if they could leave you in the travllift over night - to let the adhesive cure.听 I'd recommend an epoxy like West Sytems or their 6-10 pre mixed thickened epoxy.听 Takes about 1 day to cure.
Good luck.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rosasco < scottrosasco@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2020 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Okay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via <scottrosasco= [email protected]> wrote:
>
> 锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27,听 hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
I also think you should drop the board, because if the board is bad in the spot you show, it will likely have some pin issues, too, or maybe pennant-attachment issues. 听It would be frustrating indeed to spend the time and aggravation fixing the split in place, only to find that now you have to drop it anyway to deal with the pin or the pennant. 听 听 听 听 听 听FWIW: 听Home Depot and other similar stores sell a modern version of what were once lag screws. 听 Now they have Torx- or similar heads with integral washers, on shanks that are significantly skinnier than the DEEP threads. 听 Once you sink them into something, they have a hell of a bite! 听 But yes, you CAN back them out, too. 听So if you can鈥檛 get the board out of the slot, perhaps you could drill into the lower, trailing edge of the board, that鈥檚 already exposed to you, and put one or more of these into the edge of the board that鈥檚 exposed, and work a sort of 2x4 lever arrangement to extract the board from the slot. 听Sure, you鈥檇 have to fill the screw holes with thickened epoxy; but that鈥檚 the least of it. 听听
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On Oct 21, 2020, at 5:10 PM, jeremy@... wrote:
锘� Do you plan to drop the centerboard or repair it in place?
Given what I see in the photo, I'd drop the whole thing and see what other horrors are hidden above the centerboard trunk line.
- jeremy
听颁补濒别产,
Thanks. We had an opinion that the slot had something to do with letting the centerboard cable into the board, but I don鈥檛 think so. My thought was to drill one or two small holes In the sides near the slot and let it drain over the winter. Then in the spring fill it with epoxy, mixed with some chopped roving and squeeze it tight with some clamps and hope for the best.
锘�
Hi Scott,
I'm going to say that doesn't look right or good.听 It is not often that I have seen that side of my centerboard but I certainly do not remember seeing any crevice on any side of it.听 It may be worth giving that crevice a quick sand and fill it in with some adhesive.听 You could do that in the spring before launching if they could leave you in the travllift over night - to let the adhesive cure.听 I'd recommend an epoxy like West Sytems or their 6-10 pre mixed thickened epoxy.听 Takes about 1 day to cure.
Good luck.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rosasco < scottrosasco@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2020 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Okay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via <scottrosasco= [email protected]> wrote:
>
> 锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27,听 hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Jeremy,
听That sounds like a good way to spend a lot of valuable time and money fixing a boat that we only spent $250 to buy. We just want to go sailing, while we鈥檙e still alive. We are not going to go looking for more trouble. Thanks anyway.
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On Oct 21, 2020, at 5:10 PM, jeremy@... wrote:
锘� Do you plan to drop the centerboard or repair it in place?
Given what I see in the photo, I'd drop the whole thing and see what other horrors are hidden above the centerboard trunk line.
- jeremy
听颁补濒别产,
Thanks. We had an opinion that the slot had something to do with letting the centerboard cable into the board, but I don鈥檛 think so. My thought was to drill one or two small holes In the sides near the slot and let it drain over the winter. Then in the spring fill it with epoxy, mixed with some chopped roving and squeeze it tight with some clamps and hope for the best.
锘�
Hi Scott,
I'm going to say that doesn't look right or good.听 It is not often that I have seen that side of my centerboard but I certainly do not remember seeing any crevice on any side of it.听 It may be worth giving that crevice a quick sand and fill it in with some adhesive.听 You could do that in the spring before launching if they could leave you in the travllift over night - to let the adhesive cure.听 I'd recommend an epoxy like West Sytems or their 6-10 pre mixed thickened epoxy.听 Takes about 1 day to cure.
Good luck.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rosasco < scottrosasco@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2020 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Okay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via <scottrosasco= [email protected]> wrote:
>
> 锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27,听 hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Do you plan to drop the centerboard or repair it in place?
Given what I see in the photo, I'd drop the whole thing and see what other horrors are hidden above the centerboard trunk line.
- jeremy
听颁补濒别产,
Thanks. We had an opinion that the slot had something to do with letting the centerboard cable into the board, but I don鈥檛 think so. My thought was to drill one or two small holes In the sides near the slot and let it drain over the winter. Then in the spring fill it with epoxy, mixed with some chopped roving and squeeze it tight with some clamps and hope for the best.
锘�
Hi Scott,
I'm going to say that doesn't look right or good.听 It is not often that I have seen that side of my centerboard but I certainly do not remember seeing any crevice on any side of it.听 It may be worth giving that crevice a quick sand and fill it in with some adhesive.听 You could do that in the spring before launching if they could leave you in the travllift over night - to let the adhesive cure.听 I'd recommend an epoxy like West Sytems or their 6-10 pre mixed thickened epoxy.听 Takes about 1 day to cure.
Good luck.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rosasco < scottrosasco@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2020 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Okay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via <scottrosasco= [email protected]> wrote:
>
> 锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27,听 hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
We just last weekend installed the centerboard on No. 90 for the first time. Been working on the boat forever, but the centerboard was new to the boat, i.e. it came as part of the package with No. 90, a brand-new replacement board purchased from Tartan by the PO which had never been installed. We had to wait until the boat was moved from the driveway to the boatyard, because the boat was blocked about 15鈥� off the ground and the centerboard needs about 22鈥�-23鈥� of ground clearance, minimum; AND the blocking was, not surprisingly, in the way. So yes, we needed to be in the Travelift. The yard graciously left us in the slings over the weekend. No, the slot your picture shows isn鈥檛 normal, at least based on my inspection not only of the new board, but also of the original centerboard. Yes, I think it looks like the board is separating. My understanding is that some portions of the innards of the board are steel and eventually rust. As the rust grows it expands, which allows more water, which causes more rust...and the beat goes on. As to whether there will be enough board exposed to attempt to pull it down manually, our experience is that NO, there won鈥檛 be. When we were able to get the board in, which wasn鈥檛 as bad as I thought it might be, when the board is fully lifted into the trunk, nothing sticks down; it鈥檚 fully in the trunk, and in fact we needed to use a bit of plywood on edge to push the board fully up into the slot, because 2X material won鈥檛 fit in the slot. Once we were able to push the centerboard all the way up, the pin slipped in more readily than expected.
If you were trying to do this in the water I think it would be challenging. You鈥檇 probably have to try to push the board down with a rod of some sort thru the fitting the pennant comes from, which means, of course, that you probably couldn鈥檛 have the pennant attached. So the only attachment to the boat, other than marine growth or swelling of the board, would be the pin, which normally would be plenty; but if it hasn鈥檛 been out in years it might be pretty suspect. So it鈥檚 not crazy to consider that maybe you鈥檇 remove the pennant to be able to push thru the fitting, but find it鈥檚 jammed and you need to exert quite a bit of force, give it some goodly whacks and then maybe lose the board to King Neptune if there鈥檚 a problem at the pin end. Not to mention that all this is below the waterline, so I鈥檇 have redundant pumps at the ready.
I gather Tartan still sells the boards, new; but they鈥檙e pretty expensive. Back ten years ago they were about $1400 or maybe $1500; but I鈥檝e heard someone since saying that they鈥檙e over $3K now! I鈥檓 not vouching for the accuracy of that info, but just reporting it. I can say the quality seemed quite good.
Warren Stein
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On Oct 21, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Scott Rosasco <scottrosasco@...> wrote:
锘縊kay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via groups.io <scottrosasco@...> wrote:
锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27, hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
<image.jpg>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
听颁补濒别产,
Thanks. We had an opinion that the slot had something to do with letting the centerboard cable into the board, but I don鈥檛 think so. My thought was to drill one or two small holes In the sides near the slot and let it drain over the winter. Then in the spring fill it with epoxy, mixed with some chopped roving and squeeze it tight with some clamps and hope for the best.
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Show quoted text
On Oct 21, 2020, at 4:41 PM, Caleb Davison via groups.io <calebjess@...> wrote:
锘�
Hi Scott,
I'm going to say that doesn't look right or good.听 It is not often that I have seen that side of my centerboard but I certainly do not remember seeing any crevice on any side of it.听 It may be worth giving that crevice a quick sand and fill it in with some adhesive.听 You could do that in the spring before launching if they could leave you in the travllift over night - to let the adhesive cure.听 I'd recommend an epoxy like West Sytems or their 6-10 pre mixed thickened epoxy.听 Takes about 1 day to cure.
Good luck.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rosasco <scottrosasco@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2020 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Okay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via groups.io <scottrosasco= [email protected]> wrote:
>
> 锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27,听 hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Hi Scott,
I'm going to say that doesn't look right or good.听 It is not often that I have seen that side of my centerboard but I certainly do not remember seeing any crevice on any side of it.听 It may be worth giving that crevice a quick sand and fill it in with some adhesive.听 You could do that in the spring before launching if they could leave you in the travllift over night - to let the adhesive cure.听 I'd recommend an epoxy like West Sytems or their 6-10 pre mixed thickened epoxy.听 Takes about 1 day to cure.
Good luck.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rosasco <scottrosasco@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2020 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
Okay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via groups.io <scottrosasco= [email protected]> wrote:
>
> 锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27,听 hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
It's not supposed to look like that. Mine it that as well,
- jeremy p.s. Unrelated, my board had some serious issues at the pivot point and a previous owner mounted stainless steel reinforcement plates on either side, but did a poor job fiberglassing over them. So, don't be surprised if yours does not match my photos. That is unrelated to the crack across the top.
Okay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via <scottrosasco=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27,听 hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
>
>
>
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Re: Tartan 27 Centerboard Issues
锘縊kay, so we hauled for the winter and got the centerboard down in the travel lift, before blocking for storage. Sanded it smooth and bottom painted it. Question: is the slot opening, in the top aft end of the board typical for the centerboard, or does that opening represent the centerboard starting to separate. Picture enclosed.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Scott Rosasco via groups.io <scottrosasco@...> wrote:
锘縅ust purchased a 1967 Tartan 27, hull #270, with two other people who are also on this list. Currently berthed in Tarrytown NY. Previous owner sailed it infrequently and not at all in the past year or two. Boat was stored in the water (Long Island Sound) for at least the past two years. We had the bottom cleaned before we took delivery, but the owner told us he dropped the centerboard once in the past 13 years, but had trouble getting it back up, so he never dropped it again. Told us it sailed fine without it, but our experience differs. We have tried to drop it, but it won鈥檛 go down. Perhaps growth fouled in place? Any idea how we might safely get it down and up while the boat is in the water? Failing that, if we put it in a travel lift, how far off the ground does the boat need to be raised? Will there be enough of the board exposed below the boat to attempt to manually pull it down? Looking for opinions. Thanks.
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Re: Spreader diameter? 1970 #504 type 1
My T27 #314 only has notches at the spreader end for the upper shroud to run through which I then secure with seizing wire
This matches my memory of the mast on #328; notches only, wire up, cover with a boot and call it done.
The upward angle of the spreaders (somewhere less than 10 degrees off horizontal) comes from a fitting that goes through the mast and would be 5/8" stock that goes into the spreader tubes.听 That 5/8" piece has the proper bends in it and is held in the "upward" position by I can't remember how.
Pretty simple rigging setup mostly.
Caleb D.
-----Original Message-----
From: Relax <codewise1@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2020 3:50 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Spreader diameter? 1970 #504 type 1
[Edited Message Follows]
EDIT,听 Chris Ranney, Tartan Customer Service replied in one day to my web contact question...鈥淭27 Spreaders are 1鈥� OD, 5/8鈥� ID. My T27 #314 only has notches at the spreader end for the upper shroud to run through which I then secure with seizing wire. We have the mast from T27 #295 here at the moment, it appears to have a solid plug welded into the end with a groove machined into it for the shroud.
I can confirm that the upper shroud is designed to be attached to the inboard chainplate. Lowers go outboard. This arrangement allows for a slightly tighter lead on the genoa sheets.鈥�
Initial Post for Type 1 hull...
To those now on the hard...please help me with spreader dimensions where end cap fits in? Both cap shrouds pulled out in a good wind with new sails. And these upper shrouds were pinned to outer chain plates. I鈥檇 read the corrections here, but didn鈥檛 look at mine.
In Kerr Lake, N Carolina. Learning lots here from many posts. Thanks for your generosity.
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Re: Spreader diameter? 1970 #504 type 1
Appreciate the update and info!
Looking through my saved images, mostly from this group, I do see one
example of that on someone else's boat (attached). I imagine a lot of
riggers looked at that and thought "huh, wonder why they did that",
then promptly changed it.
Not being crossed over didn't immediately or otherwise cause me
problems I know of, fwiw.
And hope you're sorted out and sailing again before long.
-scott
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On 0, Relax <codewise1@...> wrote: [Edited Message Follows]
EDIT, Chris Ranney, Tartan Customer Service replied in one day to my web contact question...鈥淭27 Spreaders are 1鈥� OD, 5/8鈥� ID. My T27 #314 only has notches at the spreader end for the upper shroud to run through which I then secure with seizing wire. We have the mast from T27 #295 here at the moment, it appears to have a solid plug welded into the end with a groove machined into it for the shroud.
I can confirm that the upper shroud is designed to be attached to the inboard chainplate. Lowers go outboard. This arrangement allows for a slightly tighter lead on the genoa sheets.鈥�
Initial Post for Type 1 hull...
To those now on the hard...please help me with spreader dimensions where end cap fits in? Both cap shrouds pulled out in a good wind with new sails. And these upper shrouds were pinned to outer chain plates. I鈥檇 read the corrections here, but didn鈥檛 look at mine.
In Kerr Lake, N Carolina. Learning lots here from many posts. Thanks for your generosity.
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Re: Spreader diameter? 1970 #504 type 1
Can't answer the question here other than to say that if I rigged someone's
boat and the shrouds immediately pulled free of the spreaders, I'll be
tripping over myself to try to save my reputation and make it right. And
I haven't heard of the cap shrouds crossing over to attach inboard on the
deck on the T27 or any similar boat of the era.
Was the rig overtightened causing the spreaders to start to bend?
I know little about rigs (read some, actually know little) but either the
spreaders bisect the angle or else they have to withstand the (probably
downward) force. Attaching the uppers inboard would make the angles
closer, but probably still nowhere near bisected, and slightly reduce
downward pressure, but I don't think it's a solution by itself.
What kinds of boats has your rigger been working on?
Interested in comments here too. I'm due for this treatment and
have been talking to a fellow.
rickg1952@... posted a while ago with a mast and other hardware
for sale. He might be willing to check this for you if no one else
has their rig laying in their front yard. But I'd be suspicious of
anyone else's measurements. The sail club I cut my teeth on has a
fleet of three Pearson Commanders, and we/they over and over again
kept finding out that beyond the hull, no two were exactly alike.
OTOH, that email may be handy if you do find that your spreaders
are now pointing downwards.
Good luck!
-scott
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 0, Relax <codewise1@...> wrote: To those on the hard, or with experience, please help me order spreader tips of the correct diameter. What are Inside and outside dimensions of mainmast spreader where end cap fits in? Any recommendation for end tips for the single spreader sloop? The Rig-rite site has no tubes labeled for Tartan, so I鈥檇 love to hear others鈥� experience.
Both cap shrouds pulled out of spreaders after trying new sails in a good wind. Maybe because rigger pinned upper shrouds to outer chain plates, instead of crossing to the inner plate? I鈥檇 read the corrections here, but didn鈥檛 look at mine.
In Kerr Lake, N Carolina. Learning lots here from many posts. Thanks for your generosity.
|
Re: Spreader diameter? 1970 #504 type 1
Is this what you mean?听 Spreader boot?
https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=spreader+boot
Caleb D
-----Original Message-----
From: Relax <codewise1@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2020 3:50 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Spreader diameter? 1970 #504 type 1
To those on the hard, or with experience, please help me order spreader tips of the correct diameter. What are Inside and outside dimensions of mainmast spreader where end cap fits in? Any recommendation for end tips for the single spreader sloop? The Rig-rite site has no tubes labeled for Tartan, so I鈥檇 love to hear others鈥� experience.
Both cap shrouds pulled out of spreaders after trying new sails in a good wind. Maybe because rigger pinned upper shrouds to outer chain plates, instead of crossing to the inner plate? I鈥檇 read the corrections here, but didn鈥檛 look at mine.
In Kerr Lake, N Carolina. Learning lots here from many posts. Thanks for your generosity.
|
Spreader diameter? 1970 #504 type 1
EDIT, Chris Ranney, Tartan Customer Service replied in one day to my web contact question...鈥淭27 Spreaders are 1鈥� OD, 5/8鈥� ID. My T27 #314 only has notches at the spreader end for the upper shroud to run through which I then secure with seizing wire. We have the mast from T27 #295 here at the moment, it appears to have a solid plug welded into the end with a groove machined into it for the shroud.
I can confirm that the upper shroud is designed to be attached to the inboard chainplate. Lowers go outboard. This arrangement allows for a slightly tighter lead on the genoa sheets.鈥�
Initial Post for Type 1 hull...
To those now on the hard...please help me with spreader dimensions where end cap fits in? Both cap shrouds pulled out in a good wind with new sails. And these upper shrouds were pinned to outer chain plates. I鈥檇 read the corrections here, but didn鈥檛 look at mine.
In Kerr Lake, N Carolina. Learning lots here from many posts. Thanks for your generosity.
|
Re: Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
Thanks, Scott.听 EXCELLANT info. !!!
On Mon, Oct 5, 2020, 7:37 AM aksjghkajshd < scott@...> wrote: After 10 years, it's likely that deck fittings are ready to be rebedded,
plus portlights.听 That's not a show stopper when deciding to buy a
boat, but it's some of the important maintenance you're going to be
catching up on to keep the decks happy.
Thru-hulls are very likely due as well.听 5200 seems to break down
quicker in heat and sun and so survives longer under water but
if thru-hulls weren't rebedded for some time before she was put up,
that likely needs attention.
If sails have been left in the sun, they're UV damaged, and probably
terminally.听 Hopefully that isn't the case but too many people think
they need to get the sails out to show the boat for sale.听 Fabric
should be crisp even if older.听 Evidence of fibers breaking and
leaving dust when creased means it is shot.听 You should not be
able to put a finger through the sailcloth.听 Not a show stopper
but a major expense to be considered when discussing a price.
Besides the uphaul, the pivot pin and centerboard itself may
need replacement or service.
Check turnbuckles for any evidence of rust and know what
crevice corrosion looks like (google/yahoo/whatever image search
"crevice corrosion").听 Stainless steel rusts through like blue
cheese with only minimal evidence on the surface.听 Same for
chainplates.听 Check wire rope on the standing rigging for barbs.
Any broken strands indicate severe trauma to the rigging and
means everything is suspect and should be replaced.听 Not a show
stopper from buying the boat, again, just a significant expense.
I'm told that standing rigging should be replaced every 10
years "just to be sure" but use, whether lee shrouds were flopping
around in the berth or under sail, warm brackish climate, and trauma
factor in to that.
Check toggles, nicropress fittings and everything else on there
for signs of rust in cracks or any cracking at all.
Tiller may have dry rotted but that's easy to replace.听 OTOH, if
you take it off and it isn't as heavy and solid as a new one,
you're going to be really glad you did replace it before sailing.
After 10 years, you're probably at the very least taking the engine's
fuel and oil to hazardous waste disposal and replacing both before
even thinking about trying to turn it over.听 Likely new plugs as
well.听 Shoot some bust-a-nut or other rust penetrating oil in
to the air intake the day before trying to turn it over.听 One
cylinder will have been open to the atmosphere on its intake
stroke and anything you can do to easy that first cylinder stroke
will go a long way.听 Oh, but you're likely post A4, but if
you have the one cylinder diesel, same idea applies minus the
spark plug.
Fuel pump, fuel filters, and a starter are engine parts that
you're wise to carry a spare of.听 On a newer boat, you don't have
to think about this as much, but on a boat where you're hitting the
service life of every moving part, things that fail suddenly and
completely and you kind of need are worth this spares threatment.
Stuffing box may suddenly wake up when the prop shaft turns for
the first time in a while.听 I suggest giving a day after that and
before going out.听 This is second hand but trying to include what
I think of.听 That may need to be repaced or at least tightened.
An inspection haul out or a diver or some free diving with a good
waterproof flashlight can tell you about the prop.听 Were the
prop anodes replaced every year during those 10 years?听 If not,
the prop has likely been eaten away and you'll get a lot of
turbulence and vibration (which eats your shaft bearing
and is hard on the engine mount).听 Not a show stopper, but a
new prop shaft, coupling, and prop is a significant expense.
Tell the yard to cut the shaft off the coupling instead of
pounding on it and wrecking the transmission if they aren't
just telling you to replace the shaft and coupling.听 After 10
years, the shaft and coupling are now one and they're
virtually press fit on a good day.
Probably want new shaft bearings at the same time.听 Tell the
yard not to hammer on them.听 One super extra really amazingly
unbelievably fun thing I got to deal with is building up
fiberglass on the inside deadwood around and below the shaft
tube apparently, after a month of staring at it, because of
decades of people hammering bearings in and out.听 The
fiberglass was a spider's web and it was a maricle it wasn't
leaking more.听 New prop tube is still on the todo list.
How's the engine mount?听 That's one thing I need to deal with.
Any old receipts for parts or labor go a long way in figuring
out what's probably okay and what's probably not.
Hope that helps.听 I apologize for the length.
Cheers,
-scott
#93, 1965.
On听 0, Randy K <randy.kirchhoff17@...> wrote:
>听 听 Thanks for the info !!!
>
>听 听 On Mon, Oct 5, 2020, 1:03 AM Caleb Davison via [1]
>听 听 <calebjess=[2][email protected]> wrote:
>
>听 听 Welcome Randy,
>听 听 A 1975 T27 would be a type II, once they redesigned the deck and cabin
>听 听 around 1973 but they kept the hull shape the same.脗听 A 1968 T27 will be
>听 听 a type I with the more shippy looking doghouse cabin and somewhat lower
>听 听 headroom in the cabin than the type II.
>听 听 You should be looking for all the things that any older boat like this
>听 听 can suffer from; which is mostly neglect.脗听 When was the centerboard
>听 听 cable last replaced?脗听 What is the condition of the mast step, hatches
>听 听 etc?脗听 Does it need new running rigging or new sails?脗听 Does the
>听 听 electrical system work?脗听 What is the condition of the wiring?脗 脗
>听 听 Good luck.
>听 听 Caleb D
>听 听 T27 #328
>听 听 -----Original Message-----
>听 听 From: [3]randy.kirchhoff17@...
>听 听 To: [4][email protected]
>听 听 Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2020 10:26 pm
>听 听 Subject: [T27Owners] Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
>听 听 Had a 1975 T27 and only sold her because we all got laid off at Lucent
>听 听 in Orlando.脗听 My 1975 had a stout bridge deck. Will be looking at a
>听 听 1968 in Daytona Beach.脗听 Photo shows no bridge deck.脗听 A4 was rebuilt
>听 听 but has sat unused for 10 years.脗听 Other than deck core and chainplates
>听 听 - what else should I look for ???
>
> References
>
>听 听 1.
>听 听 2. mailto:[email protected]
>听 听 3. mailto:randy.kirchhoff17@...
>听 听 4. mailto:[email protected]
>
>
>
|
Re: Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
After 10 years, it's likely that deck fittings are ready to be rebedded,
plus portlights. That's not a show stopper when deciding to buy a
boat, but it's some of the important maintenance you're going to be
catching up on to keep the decks happy.
Thru-hulls are very likely due as well. 5200 seems to break down
quicker in heat and sun and so survives longer under water but
if thru-hulls weren't rebedded for some time before she was put up,
that likely needs attention.
If sails have been left in the sun, they're UV damaged, and probably
terminally. Hopefully that isn't the case but too many people think
they need to get the sails out to show the boat for sale. Fabric
should be crisp even if older. Evidence of fibers breaking and
leaving dust when creased means it is shot. You should not be
able to put a finger through the sailcloth. Not a show stopper
but a major expense to be considered when discussing a price.
Besides the uphaul, the pivot pin and centerboard itself may
need replacement or service.
Check turnbuckles for any evidence of rust and know what
crevice corrosion looks like (google/yahoo/whatever image search
"crevice corrosion"). Stainless steel rusts through like blue
cheese with only minimal evidence on the surface. Same for
chainplates. Check wire rope on the standing rigging for barbs.
Any broken strands indicate severe trauma to the rigging and
means everything is suspect and should be replaced. Not a show
stopper from buying the boat, again, just a significant expense.
I'm told that standing rigging should be replaced every 10
years "just to be sure" but use, whether lee shrouds were flopping
around in the berth or under sail, warm brackish climate, and trauma
factor in to that.
Check toggles, nicropress fittings and everything else on there
for signs of rust in cracks or any cracking at all.
Tiller may have dry rotted but that's easy to replace. OTOH, if
you take it off and it isn't as heavy and solid as a new one,
you're going to be really glad you did replace it before sailing.
After 10 years, you're probably at the very least taking the engine's
fuel and oil to hazardous waste disposal and replacing both before
even thinking about trying to turn it over. Likely new plugs as
well. Shoot some bust-a-nut or other rust penetrating oil in
to the air intake the day before trying to turn it over. One
cylinder will have been open to the atmosphere on its intake
stroke and anything you can do to easy that first cylinder stroke
will go a long way. Oh, but you're likely post A4, but if
you have the one cylinder diesel, same idea applies minus the
spark plug.
Fuel pump, fuel filters, and a starter are engine parts that
you're wise to carry a spare of. On a newer boat, you don't have
to think about this as much, but on a boat where you're hitting the
service life of every moving part, things that fail suddenly and
completely and you kind of need are worth this spares threatment.
Stuffing box may suddenly wake up when the prop shaft turns for
the first time in a while. I suggest giving a day after that and
before going out. This is second hand but trying to include what
I think of. That may need to be repaced or at least tightened.
An inspection haul out or a diver or some free diving with a good
waterproof flashlight can tell you about the prop. Were the
prop anodes replaced every year during those 10 years? If not,
the prop has likely been eaten away and you'll get a lot of
turbulence and vibration (which eats your shaft bearing
and is hard on the engine mount). Not a show stopper, but a
new prop shaft, coupling, and prop is a significant expense.
Tell the yard to cut the shaft off the coupling instead of
pounding on it and wrecking the transmission if they aren't
just telling you to replace the shaft and coupling. After 10
years, the shaft and coupling are now one and they're
virtually press fit on a good day.
Probably want new shaft bearings at the same time. Tell the
yard not to hammer on them. One super extra really amazingly
unbelievably fun thing I got to deal with is building up
fiberglass on the inside deadwood around and below the shaft
tube apparently, after a month of staring at it, because of
decades of people hammering bearings in and out. The
fiberglass was a spider's web and it was a maricle it wasn't
leaking more. New prop tube is still on the todo list.
How's the engine mount? That's one thing I need to deal with.
Any old receipts for parts or labor go a long way in figuring
out what's probably okay and what's probably not.
Hope that helps. I apologize for the length.
Cheers,
-scott
#93, 1965.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 0, Randy K <randy.kirchhoff17@...> wrote: Thanks for the info !!!
On Mon, Oct 5, 2020, 1:03 AM Caleb Davison via [1]groups.io
<calebjess=[2][email protected]> wrote:
Welcome Randy,
A 1975 T27 would be a type II, once they redesigned the deck and cabin
around 1973 but they kept the hull shape the same.� A 1968 T27 will be
a type I with the more shippy looking doghouse cabin and somewhat lower
headroom in the cabin than the type II.
You should be looking for all the things that any older boat like this
can suffer from; which is mostly neglect.� When was the centerboard
cable last replaced?� What is the condition of the mast step, hatches
etc?� Does it need new running rigging or new sails?� Does the
electrical system work?� What is the condition of the wiring?� �
Good luck.
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: [3]randy.kirchhoff17@...
To: [4][email protected]
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2020 10:26 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
Had a 1975 T27 and only sold her because we all got laid off at Lucent
in Orlando.� My 1975 had a stout bridge deck. Will be looking at a
1968 in Daytona Beach.� Photo shows no bridge deck.� A4 was rebuilt
but has sat unused for 10 years.� Other than deck core and chainplates
- what else should I look for ???
References
1.
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. mailto:randy.kirchhoff17@...
4. mailto:[email protected]
|
Re: Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Welcome Randy,
A 1975 T27 would be a type II, once they redesigned the deck and cabin around 1973 but they kept the hull shape the same.听 A 1968 T27 will be a type I with the more shippy looking doghouse cabin and somewhat lower headroom in the cabin than the type II.
You should be looking for all the things that any older boat like this can suffer from; which is mostly neglect.听 When was the centerboard cable last replaced?听 What is the condition of the mast step, hatches etc?听 Does it need new running rigging or new sails?听 Does the electrical system work?听 What is the condition of the wiring?听听
Good luck.
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: randy.kirchhoff17@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2020 10:26 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
Had a 1975 T27 and only sold her because we all got laid off at Lucent in Orlando.听 My 1975 had a stout bridge deck. Will be looking at a 1968 in Daytona Beach.听 Photo shows no bridge deck.听 A4 was rebuilt but has sat unused for 10 years.听 Other than deck core and chainplates - what else should I look for ???
|
Re: Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
Welcome Randy,
A 1975 T27 would be a type II, once they redesigned the deck and cabin around 1973 but they kept the hull shape the same.听 A 1968 T27 will be a type I with the more shippy looking doghouse cabin and somewhat lower headroom in the cabin than the type II.
You should be looking for all the things that any older boat like this can suffer from; which is mostly neglect.听 When was the centerboard cable last replaced?听 What is the condition of the mast step, hatches etc?听 Does it need new running rigging or new sails?听 Does the electrical system work?听 What is the condition of the wiring?听听
Good luck.
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: randy.kirchhoff17@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2020 10:26 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
Had a 1975 T27 and only sold her because we all got laid off at Lucent in Orlando.听 My 1975 had a stout bridge deck. Will be looking at a 1968 in Daytona Beach.听 Photo shows no bridge deck.听 A4 was rebuilt but has sat unused for 10 years.听 Other than deck core and chainplates - what else should I look for ???
|
Purchase of 1968 T27 Yawl.
Had a 1975 T27 and only sold her because we all got laid off at Lucent in Orlando.听 My 1975 had a stout bridge deck. Will be looking at a 1968 in Daytona Beach.听 Photo shows no bridge deck.听 A4 was rebuilt but has sat unused for 10 years.听 Other than deck core and chainplates - what else should I look for ???
|
All: A perhaps forgotten technique is to rig a "pier bannister" on the dock to keep the bow in as you back out. Works less well singlehanded. j
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am a lurker who actually owns a Pearson 28 MK1. Beside prop walk, it has a lot of freeboard which catches the wind.听 A solution we use, especially when the wind is on the starboard side and pushing the boat off the dock sideways is a spring
line from the bow to a forward cleat on the dock.听 While backing, crew on the foredeck feeds out the spring line听keeping the bow centered in the space until clear of the dock.听 The line is dropped in the water and retrieved on returning.听 As often as not,
it is safer to back down the fairway to open water than to sweat trying to back right then left.听 That is, one left turn until in open space where the boat can be turned going forward.
The best way I have found to control reversing, such as leaving a mooring string, is to give the engine a burst of power in reverse followed by returning the engine to neutral.
Place the rudder in neutral or slightly off in the direction you want to go prior to the burst, then when some steerage is gained by the burst of power slowly move the rudder to just coax the stern in the desired direction. Returning the
engine to neutral negates any prop walk, which makes the rudder more effective.
However moving the tiller too much will stall it in the water, effectively loosing any control.听 If needed, continue to听 burst power and use pressure on the rudder pressure (which will be great) to maneuver. 听 Remember, the bow will effectively
be uncontrollable, so plan to maneuver accordingly.
Jim Dobbs
Morgenfrau
Norwalk CT
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremy@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2020 10:37 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Steering in reverse
As others have noted, it's not you, it's the boat.
There is no shame in using lines, bumpers, and other devices to make the boat do what you want. The aim of docking is to be in control at all times. There is no bonus prize for only using the engine and rudder.
The upside is that the T27 handles very well at slow speeds in forward. I also sail an Ericson 34. That handles almost as well in reverse as it does in forward. However -- once you drop below 1.5 knots, you lose almost all steerage (in forward or reverse).
With the Tartan 27 I can still steer at very slow speeds.
- jeremy
On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 3:27 PM Howard Fidel < howard@...> wrote:
We bought our Tartan this past summer, and have observed that it is nearly impossible to steer the boat with the tiller when backing out of the slip. I was wondering if this is a common problem with this boat, and if anyone has a solution.
Thanks,
Howard
--
Carl J. Kotheimer
45 Division St.
Hudson, OH听 44236
Tel. 330 554 8261
cjkotheimer@...
|
