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Re: Good Old Boat (GOB) wants to hear from T27 owners

 

Thank you Scott. I did reply, will see what happens.


Fred Liesegang

Eagle #662
Re: Good Old Boat (GOB) wants to hear from T27 owners

 

They're asking about 27-2, but none of these are specific to the 27-2 except maybe "like least"/"like most":

?? sailing characteristics (good and bad)
?? build quality (issues and accolades)
?? what you like most about your boat
?? what you like least about your boat
?? specific problems you??ve had with this boat (such as leaky hull/deck joint)
?? advice you would give to someone considering buying this boat
Or did the chainplate mounting get improved on the 27-2?

Cal Sailing (where I "grew up", to the extent that I actually have) has some Pearson
Commanders. The keelboat Vice Commodore is the persnickity type in the best way
possible. Winches, with help from the club, are rebuilt twice a yer, for example.
Any niggling feeling he gets about anything results in that thing being inspected.
Trying to head off any problems before they happen on 60's era boats heavily used
by sailing club is a fascinating challenging to thrust upon one's self.

That's kind of my point of reference here:

There's not a whole lot of rigging on a 1960s/70s boat that's original.

A lot of these boats from that era are very similar and all excellent.

Cc'd goodoldboat.com here but I wrote this just earlier today (by some
concidence, referencing them):



Which lead to this:



Spoiler:

First production fiberglass boat, before even the Pearson Triton, was
an S&S design that looks more than a little familiar.

Adding to that, the two level deck, wide beam in the center of the hull
giving a bowl shape, and centerboard are familiar.

The balsa cored decks are less than ideal given that in 40 years, some PO is
almost inevitably going to not keep on maintenance.

Gold Old Boat should know about the Tartan 27 Handbook out of Chesapeake Bay
Tartan 27 Assoc. That covers other common problems.

But things really aren't much different from the Pearsons. And a lot of these
old boats look alike. A Westerly Centaur at a glance looks a lot like a
Tartan 27(-1). The centerboard is somewhat unique, but otherwise sailing
isn't much different from the club Commanders which also have a partially
cut-away keel and a similar hull shape. I'm not sure S&S were really evolving
during this period for small boats. If anything, designs were minor
iterations. No doubt they did all of the math but the basic idea they
were going for was pretty constant.

Tartan 27s won races. No doubt most of those sailors moved on to other
boats. It would be fascinating to dig them up and hear their stories
(in contrast to talking to people who currently own them).

?? build quality (issues and accolades)
Numerous problems but the fiberglass is bulletproof so there's that.
See the guide.

?? what you like most about your boat
Mast is up and we're floating. Gliding along on light airs you can't
even feel is pretty sweet too.

Is the icebox still around for the 27-2? Is anyone going to say "icebox"?

Access to be able to rebed deck hardware was something nice that wasn't
appreciated until 50 years later. In fact, I need access to everything
though some things scared me to my core. Metal left to rust will grow
rust crystals that look like lizard scales. Looking in the forward bilge
access when I got the boat, I saw what looked like a metal armadillo and
was honestly scared. I bought a pair of tongs just to touch it. Then
the scales immediately fell off revealing it to be a lift hook.

?? what you like least about your boat
The Previous Owners. As far as I can tell, the only thing any of them did
right was sell the boat to me. One idjit rebedded portlights using open
cell foam. Someone entombed a battery under the icebox and behind a
water muffler when repowering and invented a 4/12/16 volt electrical
system. Then there's the tiller head designed for a keyed shaft, and a
non-keyed shaft with a thru-bolt, with *neither* a key nor a
through bolt in place.

And I seriously would have reconsidered boat ownership if I'd known that
the failure mode of marine heads was to spray the urine directly into your
face out of the pump's packing gland. There's a lot of brilliance to sailing,
rigging, and vessels but other things are just wtf. I read _Sailing Alone
Around the World_ by Joshua Slocum and nowhere did he mention being sprayed
in the face with your own urine.

-scott


On 0, "calebjess@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Hi All,


A fellow sailor forwarded this message from Good Old Boat magazine to me.


Perhaps GOB is preparing an article on the Tartan 27?


Please see the Original Message below:


Caleb D
T27 #328




-----Original Message-----
From: Good Old Boat Magazine <subscribers@...>
To:
Sent: Thu, Jan 4, 2018 4:07 pm
Subject: Owners' reviews of the Tartan 27-2



We are looking for input from current and former owners of the Tartan 27-2 for an upcoming boat review. Do you own, or have you owned, a Tartan 27-2? Perhaps you know someone who owns or has owned one? (If so, please forward this message!)


We need all comments by January 18. Please send them to Dan Spurr at: danspurr@... and be sure to include the year/model of your particular boat.


Specifically, Dan wants to know about:
?? sailing characteristics (good and bad)
?? build quality (issues and accolades)
?? what you like most about your boat
?? what you like least about your boat
?? specific problems you??ve had with this boat (such as leaky hull/deck joint)
?? advice you would give to someone considering buying this boat


Thanks for sharing your experience with "the rest of us.?? We??re eager to hear from you!


And if you??re not a Tartan 27-2 sailor, please disregard this message and stay tuned for future messages. We're bound to review a boat you own or once owned.


The crew at Good Old Boat
Good Old Boat (GOB) wants to hear from T27 owners

 


Hi All,

A fellow sailor forwarded this message from Good Old Boat magazine to me.

Perhaps GOB is preparing an article on the Tartan 27?

Please see the Original Message below:

Caleb D
T27 #328


-----Original Message-----
From: Good Old Boat Magazine <subscribers@...>
To:
Sent: Thu, Jan 4, 2018 4:07 pm
Subject: Owners' reviews of the Tartan 27-2

We are looking for input from current and former owners of the Tartan 27-2 for an upcoming boat review. Do you own, or have you owned, a Tartan 27-2? Perhaps you know someone who owns or has owned one? (If so, please forward this message!)

We need all comments by January 18. Please send them to Dan Spurr at: danspurr@... and be sure to include the year/model of your particular boat.

Specifically, Dan wants to know about:
¡¤ sailing characteristics (good and bad)
¡¤ build quality (issues and accolades)
¡¤ what you like most about your boat
¡¤ what you like least about your boat
¡¤ specific problems you?ve had with this boat (such as leaky hull/deck joint)
¡¤ advice you would give to someone considering buying this boat

Thanks for sharing your experience with "the rest of us.? We?re eager to hear from you!

And if you?re not a Tartan 27-2 sailor, please disregard this message and stay tuned for future messages. We're bound to review a boat you own or once owned.

The crew at Good Old Boat
Re: S&S trivia and hull 93 updates -- may be moving east

 

Sounds like a fun trip! I am sure the Pacific Northwest is beautiful, but the sailing in New York is pretty good! Between the Hudson, Long Island Sound, Great South Bay, and out to the twin forks, it is all good!

Fred Liesegang
Eagle #662
S&S trivia and hull 93 updates -- may be moving east

 

I got a bit sidetracked trying to find resources about fiberglass
hulls in frozen water and stumbled on this:



Which lead to this:



Spoiler:

First production fiberglass boat, before even the Pearson Triton, was
an S&S design that looks more than a little familiar.

So... I may be winding up on the Hudson in New York in the fall with
some combination of trailering and sailing. Anyone want to get out of
the cold and crew through that canal that's reportedly down in Panama?

I'm a bit sad because if I was gearing up for anything, it would have
been the Pacific Northwest and British Colombia. Hate to miss that.

Otherwise, this last rain got a bit of water into the otherwise now
dry bilge and I'm pretty sure it came from the cockpit or somewhere
aft. (Grr. Stay out of my bilge!)

Cheers,
-scott
Re: Centerboard

 

I forgot that I actually have pictures posted in the Bron Yr Aur photo file of the centerboard housing, completely encased in fiberglass. In looking at the photos of the other boat's housing, it looks to me like the part around the end caps may have originally been there & sliced off.


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 8:51 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard







Monica,


I think that most T27's have the pivot pin encased in pipe caps as shown in the picture. They sorta look like the bolts sticking out of Frankenstein's neck. I believe there is a short section of pipe glassed in and the pipe caps fit/screw in and are water tight. At least this way you can gain access to the pivot pin without ripping apart laminate.


I wouldn't feel comfortable with the pin just encased in fiberglass. The weight of the board (~ 75 - 100 #s) on the pin with the board moving up and down is asking for the laminate to give out at the pin ends. The pipe caps and internal bits of pipe take all the chafing from the pin; not the fiberglass.


Caleb D.
T27 #328









-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard




Scott,
That picture looks like the ends of the pin are NOT encased in fiberglass. My fiberglass completely encases EVERYTHING, including the ends of the pin. Thanks for the pics !


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters scott@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard






housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
Here are some other people's cabin soles. I don't have a photo of mine handy,
but my W.D.Schock-built Tartan has a partial floor pan with a large removeable
wooden sole for access to the bilge.

Okay, here's a not great pic. Access goes all of the way to the engine and
the floor pan stops there, so really it's two pieces of floor pan.

Pivot pin seems to be just like anyone else's though other in photos, the
centerboard trunk looks sturdier than mine (I was dealing with some weeping
hairline cracks on the portside of the trunk right around the pivot pin and
I started beefing the trunk up after that).

If you don't have bilge access, I imagine you could cut a similar panel or
panels, put a lip beneith them, clean up the edges on the panels you've
removed, and set the panel back on top.

Hope that helps.

-scott

On 0, "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard
housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or bottom.
I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even though
Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The only
marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not know
how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get
under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not
going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends tell
me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue is
not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either
around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases, requiring
multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass artist
doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the
mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The
inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include one
adequate to pull the boat.
Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local access
to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not a
whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Jepsky davejepsky@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Hi Monica,
I have to put in my 2 cents. I think you are making a relatively simple
centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to replace
the board from the top. Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and
installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I know
the centerboard design is solid. Once you replace the pivot and pennant
you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard issue.
Dave
T27 #427 Dejale'

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Monica Malone [1]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
<[2]T27Owners@...>
To: [3]T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Warren,
You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind.
I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes,
etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home.
However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the
ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the
boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
[4]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein [5]wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]
<[6]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[7]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Devil***s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what
you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard
trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when
installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the
trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the
trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate
repair.
Here***s what I***m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off),
might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date?
Why? Because you***ve needed that access once, and might again. Because
barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear
to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make
this useful, it***s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down,
than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up
a centerboard, and they***re generally inaccessible.
I***m thinking building a ***shoulder*** on the lower (remaining) portion
of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I***m sure with appropriate
gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4*** x 2*** G10 horizontally around the trunk.
That ***shoulder*** would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk
considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by
the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some
sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of
the trunk to the (rising) hull.
Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you***re committed to
top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most
benefit from it.
Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone [8]monicam@...
[T27Owners] <[9]T27Owners@...> wrote:


Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[10]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman [11]jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
<[12]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[13]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,
Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be
glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far
easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention
possible injuries or much, much worse.
See [14] and note how many
times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as
he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off
its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller?
Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a
near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of
boat perched high on stands.
Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and
weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side.
Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.
And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the
viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained
together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved
hull of your Tartan.
Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during
the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will
give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps
are tied together.
Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone [15]monicam@...
[T27Owners] wrote:


The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend
who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy
put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used
to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight,
supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property,
so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think
the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an
hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it
would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
[16]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [17]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[18]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[19]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is
supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely
keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under
the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by
jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One
might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing
access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in
place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be
necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with
a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats
weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps
would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.
I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat
put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for
this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be
identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the
centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the
centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water
line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.
If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily
inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY

-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [20]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[21]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[22]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot
bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on
lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like
you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get
the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are
jackstands the way to do this ?
I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and
the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I
have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So,
since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting
the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[23]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' [24]jack@... [T27Owners]
<[25]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[26]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the
centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I
purchased it.
My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I
can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal
installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting
the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the
boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time
and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an
excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to
the centerboard.
Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards
and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you
have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend.
For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat
yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However
, it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I
would think the most critical element would be examining and updating
the pivot bushing if required.
Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant
From: [27]T27Owners@...
[[28]mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: [29]T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get
into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
[30]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [31]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[32]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[33]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Monica,

I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do
anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and
paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard
trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a
trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you
would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so
(limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to
jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board
back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this
way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a
few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some
would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has
offered).

My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328





-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [34]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[35]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[36]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to
get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard
to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my
property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the
unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but
I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building
permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
[37]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson [38]martylev@... [T27Owners]
<[39]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[40]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you
already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don***t really see the
advantage of doing it from the top.

It wasn***t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people
below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.

In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on
all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit
confusing until the penny drops.

There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and
custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed
in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren***t quite
aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those
won***t last many years.

Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help
from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.

Marty
Poseidon T27
Bowen Island, BC.

[41]www.vancouverarttherapy.com

*** sent by carrier pidgeon ***
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, [42]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[43]T27Owners@...> wrote:


I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat.
As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if
anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing
resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.





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54.

Re: Centerboard

 

I suspect there are endcaps under the fiberglass but I won't know until I start cutting. Now, many of the comments make sense. They can access their pins without cutting any fiberglass. There is no way I can put in a centerboard without cutting the fiberglass that encases the pin. Then, I have fiberglass repair to do whether the board goes in from the top or the bottom.


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 8:51 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard







Monica,


I think that most T27's have the pivot pin encased in pipe caps as shown in the picture. They sorta look like the bolts sticking out of Frankenstein's neck. I believe there is a short section of pipe glassed in and the pipe caps fit/screw in and are water tight. At least this way you can gain access to the pivot pin without ripping apart laminate.


I wouldn't feel comfortable with the pin just encased in fiberglass. The weight of the board (~ 75 - 100 #s) on the pin with the board moving up and down is asking for the laminate to give out at the pin ends. The pipe caps and internal bits of pipe take all the chafing from the pin; not the fiberglass.


Caleb D.
T27 #328









-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard




Scott,
That picture looks like the ends of the pin are NOT encased in fiberglass. My fiberglass completely encases EVERYTHING, including the ends of the pin. Thanks for the pics !


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters scott@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard






housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
Here are some other people's cabin soles. I don't have a photo of mine handy,
but my W.D.Schock-built Tartan has a partial floor pan with a large removeable
wooden sole for access to the bilge.

Okay, here's a not great pic. Access goes all of the way to the engine and
the floor pan stops there, so really it's two pieces of floor pan.

Pivot pin seems to be just like anyone else's though other in photos, the
centerboard trunk looks sturdier than mine (I was dealing with some weeping
hairline cracks on the portside of the trunk right around the pivot pin and
I started beefing the trunk up after that).

If you don't have bilge access, I imagine you could cut a similar panel or
panels, put a lip beneith them, clean up the edges on the panels you've
removed, and set the panel back on top.

Hope that helps.

-scott

On 0, "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard
housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or bottom.
I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even though
Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The only
marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not know
how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get
under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not
going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends tell
me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue is
not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either
around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases, requiring
multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass artist
doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the
mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The
inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include one
adequate to pull the boat.
Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local access
to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not a
whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Jepsky davejepsky@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Hi Monica,
I have to put in my 2 cents. I think you are making a relatively simple
centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to replace
the board from the top. Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and
installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I know
the centerboard design is solid. Once you replace the pivot and pennant
you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard issue.
Dave
T27 #427 Dejale'

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Monica Malone [1]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
<[2]T27Owners@...>
To: [3]T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Warren,
You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind.
I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes,
etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home.
However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the
ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the
boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
[4]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein [5]wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]
<[6]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[7]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Devil***s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what
you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard
trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when
installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the
trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the
trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate
repair.
Here***s what I***m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off),
might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date?
Why? Because you***ve needed that access once, and might again. Because
barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear
to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make
this useful, it***s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down,
than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up
a centerboard, and they***re generally inaccessible.
I***m thinking building a ***shoulder*** on the lower (remaining) portion
of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I***m sure with appropriate
gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4*** x 2*** G10 horizontally around the trunk.
That ***shoulder*** would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk
considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by
the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some
sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of
the trunk to the (rising) hull.
Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you***re committed to
top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most
benefit from it.
Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone [8]monicam@...
[T27Owners] <[9]T27Owners@...> wrote:


Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[10]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman [11]jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
<[12]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[13]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,
Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be
glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far
easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention
possible injuries or much, much worse.
See [14] and note how many
times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as
he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off
its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller?
Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a
near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of
boat perched high on stands.
Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and
weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side.
Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.
And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the
viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained
together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved
hull of your Tartan.
Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during
the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will
give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps
are tied together.
Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone [15]monicam@...
[T27Owners] wrote:


The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend
who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy
put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used
to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight,
supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property,
so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think
the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an
hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it
would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
[16]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [17]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[18]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[19]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is
supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely
keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under
the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by
jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One
might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing
access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in
place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be
necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with
a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats
weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps
would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.
I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat
put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for
this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be
identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the
centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the
centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water
line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.
If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily
inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY

-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [20]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[21]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[22]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot
bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on
lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like
you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get
the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are
jackstands the way to do this ?
I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and
the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I
have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So,
since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting
the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[23]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' [24]jack@... [T27Owners]
<[25]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[26]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the
centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I
purchased it.
My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I
can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal
installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting
the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the
boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time
and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an
excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to
the centerboard.
Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards
and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you
have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend.
For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat
yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However
, it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I
would think the most critical element would be examining and updating
the pivot bushing if required.
Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant
From: [27]T27Owners@...
[[28]mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: [29]T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get
into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
[30]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [31]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[32]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[33]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Monica,

I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do
anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and
paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard
trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a
trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you
would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so
(limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to
jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board
back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this
way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a
few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some
would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has
offered).

My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328





-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [34]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[35]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[36]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to
get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard
to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my
property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the
unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but
I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building
permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
[37]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson [38]martylev@... [T27Owners]
<[39]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[40]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you
already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don***t really see the
advantage of doing it from the top.

It wasn***t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people
below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.

In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on
all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit
confusing until the penny drops.

There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and
custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed
in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren***t quite
aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those
won***t last many years.

Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help
from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.

Marty
Poseidon T27
Bowen Island, BC.

[41]www.vancouverarttherapy.com

*** sent by carrier pidgeon ***
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, [42]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[43]T27Owners@...> wrote:


I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat.
As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if
anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing
resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.





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54.

Re: Centerboard

 

Scott,


I am sure you are correct about the NPT threaded pipe and end cap used in most T27 centerboard pin installations.

Like everything with a nearly 50 year old boat these bits bear inspecting and replacing once suspect.

If you are feeling very proactive then replace it now and report back what size pipe & thread.

One user in this thread reported a weeping leak from this area.

If you proactively replaced this now you wouldn't have to worry about this potential leak source for years.


If one of those caps failed on my boat and leaked it would very likely sink my boat.


Best,
Caleb D
T27 #328

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters scott@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 7:51 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Okay, I wasn't sure before what you meant exactly when you said the
pins were encased in fiberglass.

Yes, I can confirm that my centerboard pivot pin has two metal caps
on each end with just a bit of metal pipe sticking out of the fiberglass
on either side.

I imagine (but can't confirm) that the caps are NPT threaded standard
plumbing supply. I had wondered aloud previously in this group about
whether that metal is in danger of failing due to age and time in
salt water. No one spoke up with reports of that but I'm still nervous.

-scott



On 0, "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Scott,
That picture looks like the ends of the pin are NOT encased in fiberglass.
My fiberglass completely encases EVERYTHING, including the ends of the
pin. Thanks for the pics !

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters scott@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
To: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


> housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm
wondering
> if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I

Here are some other people's cabin soles. I don't have a photo of mine
handy,
but my W.D.Schock-built Tartan has a partial floor pan with a large
removeable
wooden sole for access to the bilge.

Okay, here's a not great pic. Access goes all of the way to the engine and
the floor pan stops there, so really it's two pieces of floor pan.

Pivot pin seems to be just like anyone else's though other in photos, the
centerboard trunk looks sturdier than mine (I was dealing with some
weeping
hairline cracks on the portside of the trunk right around the pivot pin
and
I started beefing the trunk up after that).

If you don't have bilge access, I imagine you could cut a similar panel or
panels, put a lip beneith them, clean up the edges on the panels you've
removed, and set the panel back on top.

Hope that helps.

-scott

On 0, "Monica Malone [1]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
<[2]T27Owners@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard
> housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm
wondering
> if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
> still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or
bottom.
> I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even
though
> Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The
only
> marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not
know
> how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get
> under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not
> going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends
tell
> me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue
is
> not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either
> around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases,
requiring
> multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass
artist
> doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the
> mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The
> inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include
one
> adequate to pull the boat.
> Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local
access
> to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not
a
> whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [3]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Jepsky [4]davejepsky@... [T27Owners]
> <[5]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[6]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Hi Monica,
> I have to put in my 2 cents. I think you are making a relatively simple
> centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to
replace
> the board from the top. Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and
> installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
> After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I
know
> the centerboard design is solid. Once you replace the pivot and pennant
> you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard
issue.
> Dave
> T27 #427 Dejale'
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: "Monica Malone [1][7]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
> <[2][8]T27Owners@...>
> To: [3][9]T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
> Warren,
> You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my
mind.
> I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes,
> etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from
home.
> However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the
> ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of
the
> boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [4][10]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Stein [5][11]wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]
> <[6][12]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[7][13]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Devil***s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what
> you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard
> trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when
> installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of
the
> trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the
> trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an
appropriate
> repair.
> Here***s what I***m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off),
> might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date?
> Why? Because you***ve needed that access once, and might again. Because
> barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute
bear
> to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make
> this useful, it***s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down,
> than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up
> a centerboard, and they***re generally inaccessible.
> I***m thinking building a ***shoulder*** on the lower (remaining)
portion
> of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I***m sure with
appropriate
> gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4*** x 2*** G10 horizontally around the trunk.
> That ***shoulder*** would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk
> considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused
by
> the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some
> sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of
> the trunk to the (rising) hull.
> Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you***re committed
to
> top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most
> benefit from it.
> Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA
>
> Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone
[8][14]monicam@...
> [T27Owners] <[9][15]T27Owners@...> wrote:
>
>
> Jack,
> You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the
> top.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [10][16]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Wyman [11][17]jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
> <[12][18]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[13][19]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Monica,
> Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be
> glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far
> easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention
> possible injuries or much, much worse.
> See [14][20] and note how
many
> times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as
> he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off
> its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller?
> Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a
> near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of
> boat perched high on stands.
> Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and
> weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side.
> Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.
> And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the
> viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained
> together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved
> hull of your Tartan.
> Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during
> the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will
> give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps
> are tied together.
> Jack Wyman
> T27-2 #667
> Tartango
> Michigan
>
> On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone
[15][21]monicam@...
> [T27Owners] wrote:
>
>
> The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend
> who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy
> put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used
> to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight,
> supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property,
> so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think
> the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an
> hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it
> would be easier to deal with them closer to home.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [16][22]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
From: [17][23]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
> <[18][24]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[19][25]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Monica,
>
> When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is
> supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely
> keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under
> the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by
> jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One
> might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing
> access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in
> place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be
> necessary to access the slot from below.
> The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with
> a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats
> weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps
> would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.
> I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat
> put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for
> this job.
>
> The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be
> identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.
>
> The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the
> centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the
> centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water
> line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.
> If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily
> inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
> inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.
>
> Good luck however you proceed.
>
> My best,
> Caleb Davison
> T27 #328
> NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Monica Malone [20][26]monicam@... [T27Owners]
> <[21][27]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[22][28]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
> Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot
> bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on
> lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like
> you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get
> the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are
> jackstands the way to do this ?
> I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and
> the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I
> have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So,
> since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting
> the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the
> top.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [23][29]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 'Jack T Grant' [24][30]jack@... [T27Owners]
> <[25][31]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[26][32]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
> Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the
> centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I
> purchased it.
> My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I
> can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal
> installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting
> the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
> w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the
> boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time
> and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an
> excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to
> the centerboard.
> Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards
> and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
> Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you
> have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend.
> For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat
> yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However
> , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I
> would think the most critical element would be examining and updating
> the pivot bushing if required.
> Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant
> From: [27][33]T27Owners@...
> [[28][34]mailto:T27Owners@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
> To: [29][35]T27Owners@...
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
>
> Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get
> into this project.
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [30][36]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [31][37]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
> <[32][38]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[33][39]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
> Monica,
>
> I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do
> anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and
> paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
> I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard
> trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a
> trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).
> I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you
> would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so
> (limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to
> jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board
> back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this
> way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a
> few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some
> would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has
> offered).
> My best,
> Caleb D.
> T27 #328
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Monica Malone [34][40]monicam@... [T27Owners]
> <[35][41]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[36][42]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
> Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
> The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to
> get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard
> to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my
> property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the
> unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but
> I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building
permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [37][43]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty Levenson [38][44]martylev@... [T27Owners]
> <[39][45]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[40][46]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
> I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you
> already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don***t really see the
> advantage of doing it from the top.
>
> It wasn***t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people
> below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.
>
> In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on
> all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit
> confusing until the penny drops.
>
> There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and
> custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed
> in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren***t quite
> aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those
> won***t last many years.
>
> Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help
> from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
>
> Marty
> Poseidon T27
> Bowen Island, BC.
>
> [41][47]www.vancouverarttherapy.com
>
> *** sent by carrier pidgeon ***
> On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, [42][48]monicam@... [T27Owners]
> <[43][49]T27Owners@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat.
> As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if
> anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing
> resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
>
>
>
>
>
> References
>
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------------------------------------
Posted by: Scott Walters <scott@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links
Re: Centerboard

 

Monica,


I think that most T27's have the pivot pin encased in pipe caps as shown in the picture. They sorta look like the bolts sticking out of Frankenstein's neck. I believe there is a short section of pipe glassed in and the pipe caps fit/screw in and are water tight. At least this way you can gain access to the pivot pin without ripping apart laminate.


I wouldn't feel comfortable with the pin just encased in fiberglass. The weight of the board (~ 75 - 100 #s) on the pin with the board moving up and down is asking for the laminate to give out at the pin ends. The pipe caps and internal bits of pipe take all the chafing from the pin; not the fiberglass.


Caleb D.
T27 #328

-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard




Scott,
That picture looks like the ends of the pin are NOT encased in fiberglass. My fiberglass completely encases EVERYTHING, including the ends of the pin. Thanks for the pics !


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters scott@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard






housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
Here are some other people's cabin soles. I don't have a photo of mine handy,
but my W.D.Schock-built Tartan has a partial floor pan with a large removeable
wooden sole for access to the bilge.

Okay, here's a not great pic. Access goes all of the way to the engine and
the floor pan stops there, so really it's two pieces of floor pan.

Pivot pin seems to be just like anyone else's though other in photos, the
centerboard trunk looks sturdier than mine (I was dealing with some weeping
hairline cracks on the portside of the trunk right around the pivot pin and
I started beefing the trunk up after that).

If you don't have bilge access, I imagine you could cut a similar panel or
panels, put a lip beneith them, clean up the edges on the panels you've
removed, and set the panel back on top.

Hope that helps.

-scott

On 0, "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard
housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or bottom.
I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even though
Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The only
marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not know
how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get
under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not
going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends tell
me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue is
not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either
around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases, requiring
multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass artist
doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the
mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The
inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include one
adequate to pull the boat.
Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local access
to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not a
whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Jepsky davejepsky@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Hi Monica,
I have to put in my 2 cents. I think you are making a relatively simple
centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to replace
the board from the top. Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and
installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I know
the centerboard design is solid. Once you replace the pivot and pennant
you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard issue.
Dave
T27 #427 Dejale'

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Monica Malone [1]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
<[2]T27Owners@...>
To: [3]T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Warren,
You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind.
I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes,
etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home.
However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the
ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the
boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
[4]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein [5]wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]
<[6]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[7]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Devil***s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what
you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard
trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when
installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the
trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the
trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate
repair.
Here***s what I***m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off),
might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date?
Why? Because you***ve needed that access once, and might again. Because
barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear
to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make
this useful, it***s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down,
than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up
a centerboard, and they***re generally inaccessible.
I***m thinking building a ***shoulder*** on the lower (remaining) portion
of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I***m sure with appropriate
gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4*** x 2*** G10 horizontally around the trunk.
That ***shoulder*** would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk
considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by
the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some
sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of
the trunk to the (rising) hull.
Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you***re committed to
top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most
benefit from it.
Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone [8]monicam@...
[T27Owners] <[9]T27Owners@...> wrote:


Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[10]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman [11]jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
<[12]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[13]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,
Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be
glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far
easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention
possible injuries or much, much worse.
See [14] and note how many
times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as
he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off
its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller?
Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a
near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of
boat perched high on stands.
Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and
weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side.
Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.
And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the
viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained
together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved
hull of your Tartan.
Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during
the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will
give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps
are tied together.
Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone [15]monicam@...
[T27Owners] wrote:


The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend
who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy
put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used
to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight,
supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property,
so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think
the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an
hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it
would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
[16]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [17]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[18]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[19]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is
supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely
keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under
the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by
jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One
might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing
access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in
place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be
necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with
a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats
weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps
would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.
I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat
put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for
this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be
identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the
centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the
centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water
line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.
If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily
inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY

-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [20]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[21]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[22]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot
bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on
lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like
you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get
the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are
jackstands the way to do this ?
I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and
the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I
have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So,
since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting
the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[23]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' [24]jack@... [T27Owners]
<[25]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[26]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the
centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I
purchased it.
My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I
can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal
installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting
the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the
boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time
and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an
excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to
the centerboard.
Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards
and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you
have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend.
For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat
yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However
, it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I
would think the most critical element would be examining and updating
the pivot bushing if required.
Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant
From: [27]T27Owners@...
[[28]mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: [29]T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get
into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
[30]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [31]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[32]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[33]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Monica,

I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do
anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and
paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard
trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a
trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you
would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so
(limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to
jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board
back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this
way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a
few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some
would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has
offered).

My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328





-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [34]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[35]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[36]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to
get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard
to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my
property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the
unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but
I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building
permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
[37]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson [38]martylev@... [T27Owners]
<[39]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[40]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you
already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don***t really see the
advantage of doing it from the top.

It wasn***t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people
below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.

In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on
all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit
confusing until the penny drops.

There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and
custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed
in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren***t quite
aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those
won***t last many years.

Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help
from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.

Marty
Poseidon T27
Bowen Island, BC.

[41]www.vancouverarttherapy.com

*** sent by carrier pidgeon ***
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, [42]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[43]T27Owners@...> wrote:


I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat.
As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if
anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing
resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.





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Re: Centerboard

 

Okay, I wasn't sure before what you meant exactly when you said the
pins were encased in fiberglass.

Yes, I can confirm that my centerboard pivot pin has two metal caps
on each end with just a bit of metal pipe sticking out of the fiberglass
on either side.

I imagine (but can't confirm) that the caps are NPT threaded standard
plumbing supply. I had wondered aloud previously in this group about
whether that metal is in danger of failing due to age and time in
salt water. No one spoke up with reports of that but I'm still nervous.

-scott

On 0, "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Scott,
That picture looks like the ends of the pin are NOT encased in fiberglass.
My fiberglass completely encases EVERYTHING, including the ends of the
pin. Thanks for the pics !

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters scott@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
To: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


> housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm
wondering
> if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I

Here are some other people's cabin soles. I don't have a photo of mine
handy,
but my W.D.Schock-built Tartan has a partial floor pan with a large
removeable
wooden sole for access to the bilge.

Okay, here's a not great pic. Access goes all of the way to the engine and
the floor pan stops there, so really it's two pieces of floor pan.

Pivot pin seems to be just like anyone else's though other in photos, the
centerboard trunk looks sturdier than mine (I was dealing with some
weeping
hairline cracks on the portside of the trunk right around the pivot pin
and
I started beefing the trunk up after that).

If you don't have bilge access, I imagine you could cut a similar panel or
panels, put a lip beneith them, clean up the edges on the panels you've
removed, and set the panel back on top.

Hope that helps.

-scott

On 0, "Monica Malone [1]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
<[2]T27Owners@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard
> housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm
wondering
> if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
> still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or
bottom.
> I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even
though
> Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The
only
> marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not
know
> how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get
> under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not
> going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends
tell
> me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue
is
> not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either
> around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases,
requiring
> multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass
artist
> doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the
> mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The
> inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include
one
> adequate to pull the boat.
> Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local
access
> to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not
a
> whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [3]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Jepsky [4]davejepsky@... [T27Owners]
> <[5]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[6]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Hi Monica,
> I have to put in my 2 cents. I think you are making a relatively simple
> centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to
replace
> the board from the top. Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and
> installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
> After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I
know
> the centerboard design is solid. Once you replace the pivot and pennant
> you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard
issue.
> Dave
> T27 #427 Dejale'
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: "Monica Malone [1][7]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
> <[2][8]T27Owners@...>
> To: [3][9]T27Owners@...
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
> Warren,
> You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my
mind.
> I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes,
> etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from
home.
> However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the
> ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of
the
> boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [4][10]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Stein [5][11]wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]
> <[6][12]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[7][13]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Devil***s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what
> you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard
> trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when
> installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of
the
> trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the
> trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an
appropriate
> repair.
> Here***s what I***m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off),
> might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date?
> Why? Because you***ve needed that access once, and might again. Because
> barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute
bear
> to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make
> this useful, it***s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down,
> than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up
> a centerboard, and they***re generally inaccessible.
> I***m thinking building a ***shoulder*** on the lower (remaining)
portion
> of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I***m sure with
appropriate
> gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4*** x 2*** G10 horizontally around the trunk.
> That ***shoulder*** would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk
> considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused
by
> the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some
> sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of
> the trunk to the (rising) hull.
> Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you***re committed
to
> top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most
> benefit from it.
> Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA
>
> Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone
[8][14]monicam@...
> [T27Owners] <[9][15]T27Owners@...> wrote:
>
>
> Jack,
> You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the
> top.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [10][16]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Wyman [11][17]jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
> <[12][18]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[13][19]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Monica,
> Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be
> glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far
> easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention
> possible injuries or much, much worse.
> See [14][20] and note how
many
> times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as
> he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off
> its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller?
> Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a
> near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of
> boat perched high on stands.
> Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and
> weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side.
> Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.
> And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the
> viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained
> together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved
> hull of your Tartan.
> Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during
> the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will
> give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps
> are tied together.
> Jack Wyman
> T27-2 #667
> Tartango
> Michigan
>
> On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone
[15][21]monicam@...
> [T27Owners] wrote:
>
>
> The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend
> who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy
> put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used
> to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight,
> supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property,
> so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think
> the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an
> hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it
> would be easier to deal with them closer to home.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [16][22]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [17][23]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
> <[18][24]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[19][25]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Monica,
>
> When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is
> supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely
> keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under
> the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by
> jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One
> might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing
> access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in
> place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be
> necessary to access the slot from below.
> The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with
> a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats
> weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps
> would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.
> I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat
> put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for
> this job.
>
> The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be
> identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.
>
> The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the
> centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the
> centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water
> line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.
> If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily
> inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
> inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.
>
> Good luck however you proceed.
>
> My best,
> Caleb Davison
> T27 #328
> NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Monica Malone [20][26]monicam@... [T27Owners]
> <[21][27]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[22][28]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
> Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot
> bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on
> lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like
> you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get
> the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are
> jackstands the way to do this ?
> I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and
> the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I
> have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So,
> since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting
> the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the
> top.
>
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [23][29]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 'Jack T Grant' [24][30]jack@... [T27Owners]
> <[25][31]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[26][32]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
> Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard
>
>
> Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the
> centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I
> purchased it.
> My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I
> can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal
> installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting
> the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
> w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the
> boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time
> and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an
> excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to
> the centerboard.
> Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards
> and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
> Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you
> have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend.
> For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat
> yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However
> , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I
> would think the most critical element would be examining and updating
> the pivot bushing if required.
> Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant
> From: [27][33]T27Owners@...
> [[28][34]mailto:T27Owners@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
> To: [29][35]T27Owners@...
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
>
> Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get
> into this project.
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [30][36]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [31][37]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
> <[32][38]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[33][39]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
> Monica,
>
> I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do
> anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and
> paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
> I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard
> trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a
> trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).
> I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you
> would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so
> (limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to
> jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board
> back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this
> way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a
> few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some
> would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has
> offered).
>
> My best,
> Caleb D.
> T27 #328
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Monica Malone [34][40]monicam@... [T27Owners]
> <[35][41]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[36][42]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
> Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
> The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to
> get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard
> to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my
> property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the
> unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but
> I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building
> permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
> Monica Malone PsyD
> [37][43]monicam@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty Levenson [38][44]martylev@... [T27Owners]
> <[39][45]T27Owners@...>
> To: T27Owners <[40][46]T27Owners@...>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
>
> I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you
> already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don***t really see the
> advantage of doing it from the top.
>
> It wasn***t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people
> below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.
>
> In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on
> all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit
> confusing until the penny drops.
>
> There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and
> custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed
> in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren***t quite
> aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those
> won***t last many years.
>
> Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help
> from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
>
> Marty
> Poseidon T27
> Bowen Island, BC.
>
> [41][47]www.vancouverarttherapy.com
>
> *** sent by carrier pidgeon ***
> On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, [42][48]monicam@... [T27Owners]
> <[43][49]T27Owners@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat.
> As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if
> anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing
> resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
>
>
>
>
>
> References
>
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Re: Centerboard

 

Scott,
That picture looks like the ends of the pin are NOT encased in fiberglass. My fiberglass completely encases EVERYTHING, including the ends of the pin. Thanks for the pics !


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Walters scott@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard






housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
Here are some other people's cabin soles. I don't have a photo of mine handy,
but my W.D.Schock-built Tartan has a partial floor pan with a large removeable
wooden sole for access to the bilge.

Okay, here's a not great pic. Access goes all of the way to the engine and
the floor pan stops there, so really it's two pieces of floor pan.

Pivot pin seems to be just like anyone else's though other in photos, the
centerboard trunk looks sturdier than mine (I was dealing with some weeping
hairline cracks on the portside of the trunk right around the pivot pin and
I started beefing the trunk up after that).

If you don't have bilge access, I imagine you could cut a similar panel or
panels, put a lip beneith them, clean up the edges on the panels you've
removed, and set the panel back on top.

Hope that helps.

-scott

On 0, "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard
housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering
if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I
still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or bottom.
I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even though
Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The only
marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not know
how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get
under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not
going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends tell
me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue is
not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either
around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases, requiring
multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass artist
doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the
mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The
inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include one
adequate to pull the boat.
Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local access
to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not a
whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Jepsky davejepsky@... [T27Owners]
<T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Hi Monica,
I have to put in my 2 cents. I think you are making a relatively simple
centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to replace
the board from the top. Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and
installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I know
the centerboard design is solid. Once you replace the pivot and pennant
you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard issue.
Dave
T27 #427 Dejale'

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Monica Malone [1]monicam@... [T27Owners]"
<[2]T27Owners@...>
To: [3]T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Warren,
You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind.
I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes,
etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home.
However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the
ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the
boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
[4]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein [5]wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]
<[6]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[7]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Devil***s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what
you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard
trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when
installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the
trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the
trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate
repair.
Here***s what I***m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off),
might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date?
Why? Because you***ve needed that access once, and might again. Because
barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear
to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make
this useful, it***s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down,
than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up
a centerboard, and they***re generally inaccessible.
I***m thinking building a ***shoulder*** on the lower (remaining) portion
of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I***m sure with appropriate
gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4*** x 2*** G10 horizontally around the trunk.
That ***shoulder*** would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk
considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by
the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some
sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of
the trunk to the (rising) hull.
Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you***re committed to
top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most
benefit from it.
Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone [8]monicam@...
[T27Owners] <[9]T27Owners@...> wrote:


Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[10]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman [11]jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
<[12]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[13]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,
Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be
glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far
easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention
possible injuries or much, much worse.
See [14] and note how many
times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as
he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off
its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller?
Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a
near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of
boat perched high on stands.
Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and
weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side.
Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.
And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the
viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained
together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved
hull of your Tartan.
Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during
the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will
give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps
are tied together.
Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone [15]monicam@...
[T27Owners] wrote:


The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend
who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy
put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used
to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight,
supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property,
so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think
the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an
hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it
would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
[16]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [17]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[18]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[19]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is
supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely
keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under
the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by
jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One
might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing
access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in
place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be
necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with
a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats
weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps
would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.
I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat
put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for
this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be
identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the
centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the
centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water
line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.
If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily
inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY

-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [20]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[21]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[22]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot
bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on
lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like
you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get
the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are
jackstands the way to do this ?
I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and
the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I
have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So,
since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting
the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[23]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' [24]jack@... [T27Owners]
<[25]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[26]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the
centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I
purchased it.
My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I
can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal
installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting
the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the
boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time
and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an
excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to
the centerboard.
Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards
and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you
have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend.
For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat
yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However
, it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I
would think the most critical element would be examining and updating
the pivot bushing if required.
Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant
From: [27]T27Owners@...
[[28]mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: [29]T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get
into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
[30]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [31]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[32]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[33]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Monica,

I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do
anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and
paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard
trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a
trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you
would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so
(limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to
jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board
back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this
way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a
few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some
would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has
offered).

My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328





-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [34]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[35]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[36]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to
get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard
to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my
property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the
unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but
I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building
permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
[37]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson [38]martylev@... [T27Owners]
<[39]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[40]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you
already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don***t really see the
advantage of doing it from the top.

It wasn***t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people
below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.

In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on
all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit
confusing until the penny drops.

There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and
custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed
in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren***t quite
aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those
won***t last many years.

Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help
from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.

Marty
Poseidon T27
Bowen Island, BC.

[41]www.vancouverarttherapy.com

*** sent by carrier pidgeon ***
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, [42]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[43]T27Owners@...> wrote:


I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat.
As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if
anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing
resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.





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Re: Centerboard

 

How about waiting until you launch the boat and then motor or sail over to a good boatyard.? Make it an adventure.? They can haul the boat and you can put the new board in.?
It is a lot easier to fiberglass the centerboard housing wherever you need to repair after putting in the new pin than to fiberglass the whole top of the centerboard trunk. ?
I know the feeling of not having a boatyard that handles sailboats.? When I was in Mississippi the local powerboat yard said they thought they could station some guys on one of the rooftops to put my mast in.? I ended up getting a guy with a cherry picker to hoist it up early on a Saturday morning while the boat was still in the cradle.? I lucked out and the guy knew what he was doing.? Back then it was $25.
Good luck.? You'll work it out.? At least you've got a fiberglass guy ... and that makes all the difference.

From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or bottom. I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even though Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The only marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not know how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends tell me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue is not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases, requiring multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass artist doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include one adequate to pull the boat.
Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local access to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not a whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.?

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Jepsky davejepsky@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Hi Monica,
I have to put in my 2 cents.? I think you are making a relatively simple centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to replace the board from the top.? Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I know the centerboard design is solid.? Once you replace the pivot and pennant you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard issue.
DaveT27 #427 Dejale'



From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Warren,You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind. I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes, etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home. However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Devil¡¯s advocate here. ?Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what you just paid for it. ?I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. ? It (the trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate repair. ?
Here¡¯s what I¡¯m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off), might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date? ? Why? ?Because you¡¯ve needed that access once, and might again. ?Because barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear to get at. ?Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make this useful, it¡¯s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down, than under the boat looking up. ?Because all manner of things can lock up a centerboard, and they¡¯re generally inaccessible. ?
I¡¯m thinking building a ¡®shoulder¡¯ on the lower (remaining) portion of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I¡¯m sure with appropriate gasketing. ?Maybe epoxy 1/4¡± x 2¡± G10 horizontally around the trunk. ?That ¡®shoulder¡¯ would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by the top-cutting. ? Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of the trunk to the (rising) hull.
Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you¡¯re committed to top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most benefit from it. ?
Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:


? Jack,You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman jackwyman@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Monica,
Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.?
See? and note how many times safety issues are addressed by?Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a?relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second.?In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.?
Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds. ?
And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.?
Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together.
Jack WymanT27-2 #667TartangoMichigan
??






On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:

? The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.?

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY




-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard



Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?
I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. ??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack GrantFrom: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard?? Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...?-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? Monica,?I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).? I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).?My best,Caleb D.T27 #328?????-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...
?-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.??It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.??In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.??There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.??Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.?MartyPoseidon T27?Bowen Island, BC.??www.vancouverarttherapy.com?? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
? I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
?







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Re: Centerboard

 

Re: Centerboard

 

Thanks for the input, Dave. On my boat, I have to cut the centerboard housing to get to the pin. (Based on some of the responses, I'm wondering if this is true of all Tartan 27s.) So, after the trip to the lift, I still have fiberglass repair, whether I install it from the top or bottom. I'm a little gunshy about boatyards after my last experience. Even though Patrick Kennedy moved here, it is still mainly a powerboat area. The only marina I could find that had a lift adequate for a sailboat, did not know how to lift the boat & damaged it. In addition, he would not let me get under to boat to inspect the centerboard well, so he is certainly not going to let me work on it from underneath.. My local sailing friends tell me the best place to have it lifted is an hour up the coast. The issue is not one drive of an hour. I then have to repair the fiberglass, either around the pin or the whole top. This has to be done in phases, requiring multiple trips to the boat. ( An additional glitch is my fiberglass artist doesn't drive.) So. I either do that at the boatyard, before putting the mast up and launching it, or trailer the boat back to my place. The inventory of vehicles among my friends and relatives does not include one adequate to pull the boat.


Yes, this is much more complicated than it would be if I had local access to a lift. And, in my mind, once I cut into the fiberglass, there's not a whole lot of difference between a little cut and a big cut.


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Jepsky davejepsky@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard







Hi Monica,


I have to put in my 2 cents. I think you are making a relatively simple centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to replace the board from the top. Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.


After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I know the centerboard design is solid. Once you replace the pivot and pennant you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard issue.


Dave
T27 #427 Dejale'











From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard








Warren,
You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind. I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes, etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home. However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard






Devil¡¯s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate repair.


Here¡¯s what I¡¯m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off), might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date? Why? Because you¡¯ve needed that access once, and might again. Because barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make this useful, it¡¯s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down, than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up a centerboard, and they¡¯re generally inaccessible.


I¡¯m thinking building a ¡®shoulder¡¯ on the lower (remaining) portion of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I¡¯m sure with appropriate gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4¡± x 2¡± G10 horizontally around the trunk. That ¡®shoulder¡¯ would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of the trunk to the (rising) hull.


Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you¡¯re committed to top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most benefit from it.


Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA


Sent from my iPad

On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:





Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the top.


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman jackwyman@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard






Monica,


Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.


See and note how many times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.


Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.


And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.


Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together.


Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

















On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:




The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard






Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot. I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though. If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY








-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard




Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?


I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.


Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard







Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant

From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard





Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...



-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard




Monica,



I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.

I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).

I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).



My best,

Caleb D.

T27 #328











-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard



Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.

The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...




-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard




I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.



It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.



In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.



There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.



Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.



Marty

Poseidon T27

Bowen Island, BC.




www.vancouverarttherapy.com




? sent by carrier pidgeon ?



On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:




I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
Re: Centerboard

 

Hi Monica,
I have to put in my 2 cents.? I think you are making a relatively simple centerboard replacement a major activity by cutting and trying to replace the board from the top.? Putting the boat in slings at the boatyard and installing the board from the bottom is the way to go.
After sailing thousands of miles and having no centerboard trouble; I know the centerboard design is solid.? Once you replace the pivot and pennant you should be good for many years. Old age is the main centerboard issue.
DaveT27 #427 Dejale'



From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Warren,You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind. I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes, etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home. However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Devil¡¯s advocate here. ?Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what you just paid for it. ?I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. ? It (the trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate repair. ?
Here¡¯s what I¡¯m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off), might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date? ? Why? ?Because you¡¯ve needed that access once, and might again. ?Because barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear to get at. ?Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make this useful, it¡¯s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down, than under the boat looking up. ?Because all manner of things can lock up a centerboard, and they¡¯re generally inaccessible. ?
I¡¯m thinking building a ¡®shoulder¡¯ on the lower (remaining) portion of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I¡¯m sure with appropriate gasketing. ?Maybe epoxy 1/4¡± x 2¡± G10 horizontally around the trunk. ?That ¡®shoulder¡¯ would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by the top-cutting. ? Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of the trunk to the (rising) hull.
Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you¡¯re committed to top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most benefit from it. ?
Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:


? Jack,You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman jackwyman@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Monica,
Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.?
See? and note how many times safety issues are addressed by?Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a?relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second.?In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.?
Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds. ?
And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.?
Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together.
Jack WymanT27-2 #667TartangoMichigan
??






On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:

? The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.?

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY




-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard



Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?
I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard

? Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. ??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack GrantFrom: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard?? Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...?-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? Monica,?I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).? I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).?My best,Caleb D.T27 #328?????-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...
?-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.??It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.??In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.??There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.??Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.?MartyPoseidon T27?Bowen Island, BC.??www.vancouverarttherapy.com?? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
? I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
?





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Re: Centerboard

 

Turn the centerboard into a daggerboard with a daggerboard trunk that
extends to above the waterline. Get rid of the pivot entirely.

Downsides: Less room below decks. If the pendet breaks, boards gone.

(Not serious... well, not very serious. I second the suggestion of
driving the boat over to the yard and hauling her up on a TravelLift
after building a nice access panel. Also, it's odd to think about
lack of access after all of the time I've spent with my head in the
bilge.)

-s

On 0, "Warren Stein wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> wrote:


Devil***s advocate here. Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what
you just paid for it. I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard
trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when
installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the
trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. It (the
trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate
repair.
Here***s what I***m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off),
might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date?
Why? Because you***ve needed that access once, and might again. Because
barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear
to get at. Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make
this useful, it***s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down,
than under the boat looking up. Because all manner of things can lock up
a centerboard, and they***re generally inaccessible.
I***m thinking building a ***shoulder*** on the lower (remaining) portion
of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I***m sure with appropriate
gasketing. Maybe epoxy 1/4*** x 2*** G10 horizontally around the trunk.
That ***shoulder*** would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk
considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by
the top-cutting. Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some
sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of
the trunk to the (rising) hull.
Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you***re committed to
top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most
benefit from it.
Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone [1]monicam@...
[T27Owners] <[2]T27Owners@...> wrote:



Jack,

You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[3]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman [4]jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
<[5]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[6]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,
Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be
glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far
easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention
possible injuries or much, much worse.
See [7] and note how many
times safety issues are addressed by Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as
he raises a relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off
its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller?
Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second. In a
near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of
boat perched high on stands.
Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and
weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side.
Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds.
And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the
viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained
together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved
hull of your Tartan.
Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during
the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will
give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps
are tied together.
Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone [8]monicam@...
[T27Owners] wrote:


The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend
who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy
put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used
to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight,
supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property,
so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think
the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an
hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it
would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
[9]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [10]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[11]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[12]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is
supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely
keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under
the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by
jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One
might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing
access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in
place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be
necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with
a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats
weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps
would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.
I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat
put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for
this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be
identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the
centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the
centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water
line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.
If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily
inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY

-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [13]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[14]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[15]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot
bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on
lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like
you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get
the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are
jackstands the way to do this ?
I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and
the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I
have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So,
since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting
the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the
top.

Monica Malone PsyD
[16]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' [17]jack@... [T27Owners]
<[18]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[19]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard


Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the
centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I
purchased it.
My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I
can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal
installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting
the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the
boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time
and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an
excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to
the centerboard.
Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards
and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin.
Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you
have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend.
For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat
yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However
, it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I
would think the most critical element would be examining and updating
the pivot bushing if required.
Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant
From: [20]T27Owners@...
[[21]mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: [22]T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get
into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
[23]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [24]calebjess@... [T27Owners]
<[25]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[26]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Monica,

I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do
anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and
paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard
trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a
trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you
would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so
(limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to
jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board
back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this
way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a
few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some
would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has
offered).

My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328





-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone [27]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[28]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[29]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to
get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard
to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my
property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the
unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but
I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building
permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
[30]monicam@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson [31]martylev@... [T27Owners]
<[32]T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <[33]T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard

I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you
already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don***t really see the
advantage of doing it from the top.

It wasn***t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people
below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.

In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on
all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit
confusing until the penny drops.

There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and
custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed
in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren***t quite
aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those
won***t last many years.

Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help
from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.

Marty
Poseidon T27
Bowen Island, BC.

[34]www.vancouverarttherapy.com

*** sent by carrier pidgeon ***
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, [35]monicam@... [T27Owners]
<[36]T27Owners@...> wrote:


I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat.
As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if
anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing
resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.





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Re: Centerboard

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

After I sent that, I realized what I should have suggested: ?a flange-to-flange meeting, I.e. two right-angle flanges, with a gasket between and thru-bolts all around. ? Stiffer, stronger, and more maintainable than what we have. ? MAYBE. ?

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 11, 2017, at 8:32 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:

?

Warren,

You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind. I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes, etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home. However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Devil¡¯s advocate here. ?Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what you just paid for it. ?I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. ? It (the trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate repair. ?

Here¡¯s what I¡¯m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off), might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date? ? Why? ?Because you¡¯ve needed that access once, and might again. ?Because barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear to get at. ?Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make this useful, it¡¯s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down, than under the boat looking up. ?Because all manner of things can lock up a centerboard, and they¡¯re generally inaccessible. ?

I¡¯m thinking building a ¡®shoulder¡¯ on the lower (remaining) portion of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I¡¯m sure with appropriate gasketing. ?Maybe epoxy 1/4¡± x 2¡± G10 horizontally around the trunk. ?That ¡®shoulder¡¯ would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by the top-cutting. ? Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of the trunk to the (rising) hull.

Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you¡¯re committed to top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most benefit from it. ?

Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:

?
Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman jackwyman@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.?

See? and note how many times safety issues are addressed by?Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a?relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second.?In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.?

Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds. ?

And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.?

Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together.

Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

??







On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:

?
The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.?

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY




-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard



Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?

I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.
??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant
From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
?
Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...
?
-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
Monica,
?
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
?
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
?
?
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

?
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
?
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
?
?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?

On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
?
I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
?



Re: Centerboard

 

Warren,
You have verbalized the temptation I've been trying to chase from my mind. I would love to be able to check on the condition of the pennant, holes, etc to reassure myself the centerboard is not about to run away from home. However, since I can't seem to get the windows water-tight (I have the ones that open), I know better than to risk something on the bottom of the boat that could leak. But, it really is tempting.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein wrsteinesq@... [T27Owners]
To: T27Owners
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Devil¡¯s advocate here. ?Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what you just paid for it. ?I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. ? It (the trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate repair. ?

Here¡¯s what I¡¯m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off), might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date? ? Why? ?Because you¡¯ve needed that access once, and might again. ?Because barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear to get at. ?Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make this useful, it¡¯s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down, than under the boat looking up. ?Because all manner of things can lock up a centerboard, and they¡¯re generally inaccessible. ?

I¡¯m thinking building a ¡®shoulder¡¯ on the lower (remaining) portion of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I¡¯m sure with appropriate gasketing. ?Maybe epoxy 1/4¡± x 2¡± G10 horizontally around the trunk. ?That ¡®shoulder¡¯ would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by the top-cutting. ? Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of the trunk to the (rising) hull.

Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you¡¯re committed to top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most benefit from it. ?

Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:

?
Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman jackwyman@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.?

See? and note how many times safety issues are addressed by?Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a?relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second.?In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.?

Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds. ?

And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.?

Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together.

Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

??







On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:

?
The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.?

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY




-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard



Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?

I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.
??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant
From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
?
Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...
?
-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
Monica,
?
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
?
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
?
?
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

?
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
?
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
?
?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?

On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
?
I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
?



Re: Centerboard

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Devil¡¯s advocate here. ?Just tossing out an idea, probably worth what you just paid for it. ?I HAVE taken part of the top off the centerboard trunk, not to install a centerboard but because I miscalculated when installing a new stern tube (long story), and had to lower the top of the trunk under the (newly installed) engine by about an inch. ? It (the trunk) was fairly stout, and I was indeed able to glass in an appropriate repair. ?

Here¡¯s what I¡¯m thinking: IF you go that way (cutting the top off), might there be some way to make that top removable at some later date? ? Why? ?Because you¡¯ve needed that access once, and might again. ?Because barnacles and/or other growth IN the trunk are otherwise an absolute bear to get at. ?Because even if the boat has to be out of the water to make this useful, it¡¯s still way safer to be inside the boat looking down, than under the boat looking up. ?Because all manner of things can lock up a centerboard, and they¡¯re generally inaccessible. ?

I¡¯m thinking building a ¡®shoulder¡¯ on the lower (remaining) portion of the trunk and then fastening the top to it, I¡¯m sure with appropriate gasketing. ?Maybe epoxy 1/4¡± x 2¡± G10 horizontally around the trunk. ?That ¡®shoulder¡¯ would undoubtedly strengthen/stiffen the trunk considerably, probably more than mitigating any loss in rigidity caused by the top-cutting. ? Hell, if you were in doubt, you could glass in some sort of athwartships ribs port and starboard, running from each side of the trunk to the (rising) hull.

Not saying this is a good idea, just saying that if you¡¯re committed to top-chopping, you might as well at least think about getting the most benefit from it. ?

Warren Stein, Hulls No. 90 and 535, Waterford, VA

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 11, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:

?

Jack,

You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman jackwyman@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.?

See? and note how many times safety issues are addressed by?Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a?relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second.?In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.?

Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds. ?

And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.?

Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together.

Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

??







On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:

?
The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.?

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY




-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard



Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?

I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.
??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant
From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
?
Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...
?
-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
Monica,
?
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
?
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
?
?
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

?
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
?
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
?
?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?

On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
?
I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
?



Re: Centerboard

 

Jack,
You have described well why I think it is safer to install it from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyman jackwyman@... [T27Owners]
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.?

See? and note how many times safety issues are addressed by?Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a?relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second.?In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.?

Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds. ?

And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.?

Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together.

Jack Wyman
T27-2 #667
Tartango
Michigan

??







On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:

?
The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard

?
Monica,

When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below.
The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job.

The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.?

The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as
inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires.

Good luck however you proceed.

My best,
Caleb Davison
T27 #328
NY




-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard



Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?

I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.

Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard

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Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.
??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant
From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
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Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...
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-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
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Monica,
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I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
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My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
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-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard


Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@...

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-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...>
To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
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I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
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It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
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In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
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There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
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Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
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Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
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? sent by carrier pidgeon ?

On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
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I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem.
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