Re: CEL on for a few minutes or a few miles and goes off
Online it says it could be an ECU problem. Start looking for a replacement before you get a no start. Have you tried a reset by D/C battery and connect positive cable to ground to totally discharge the capacitors on the ECU?
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I understand how the system works
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I believe you don't understand the operation of the pressure regulator, specially on these engines (and typical return style fuel injection FPRs)? usually the style used is call a by-pass regulator
On a typical fuel injected car (which has a return) you check the fuel pressure on the feed side with a tee fitting (in line with the feed) to get an accurate reading.? usually you do not dead head the system, be it feed or the return, which can cause damage to the fuel pump, pop a fuel line and thou not common lock an injector in the open position
So on the feed side, it should be @40 psi =/- 5 psi (don't know the specs off hand) with the fuel pressure gauge inline with the feed line (allow the fuel to go to the engine) the return should be left open to return to the tank (if plugged it will build up pressure to what the fuel pump can pump too, since the excess pressure can't be bleed off)
Now a return-less system, thou one would think its deadhead, and typically it is, but the excess pressure is usually bleed off inside the tank ('06+ EJ253s), or the pump is just PWM controlled with a feed back control from the fuel rail pressure sensor
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Don¡¯t think you understood how I applied the gauge. I did not tee it in, I essentially plugged the outlet line with the gauge. 65 psi is the capability of the stick Vanagon pump when it is fully ¡°dead headed¡±. The fuel pressure regulator is supposed to drop that down to 36 psi to supply the engine, with the rest returning to the tank.
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I do not know if 65 PSI is appropriate.? But I do know that if you have pressure on the return side of the regulator then you have a restriction or I would say blockage on the return side.? There should be ambient pressure at all times on the return side.?
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I would perform the measurements again and confirm the findings.
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Harold Mead
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From: "todd s via groups.io" <tsorel1600@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2023 5:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SubaruVanagon] EG33 Hard Start
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It¡¯s the fuel pressure regulator. I put a gauge on the pressure side out of the pump and saw 65psi. I then put the gauge on the return line off the fuel rail and saw 65psi. The regulator was just letting the fuel right through. I left the gauge on (dead headed) and cranked the engine, it fired right up. I guess the FPR is acting too slow to close. I just need to determine now if it uses manifold vacuum to close or vacuum to open before I replace it.
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It¡¯s the fuel pressure regulator. I put a gauge on the pressure side out of the pump and saw 65psi. I then put the gauge on the return line off the fuel rail and saw 65psi. The regulator was just letting the fuel right through. I left the gauge on (dead headed) and cranked the engine, it fired right up. I guess the FPR is acting too slow to close. I just need to determine now if it uses manifold vacuum to close or vacuum to open before I replace it.
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Hi Duncan Looking at the schematic for the 2.2, I don't see anything like a cold start injector or cold start relay. I'm no expert on OBD1, altho I'm currently running an SVX OBD1, but it would appear that all cold start enrichment takes place in the ECU, probably?based on the signal from the Engine Temp sensor. If the Temp Sensor signal is correct, then your problem is more likely an issue with fuel, or voltage drops. Dennis
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 8:36?AM Duncan Cameron via <duncancameron737= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Dennis- Those are all good "eliminate these varisble" suggestions.? Can somebody pls tell me (link, book, etc) how the 2.2 OBD1 system compensates for cold weather? What sensors/process/ etc. What is the ECU looking at to add fuel or change the stoichiometric ratio on cold days? Just a basic intro to "Subaru brain flow". I have most time in Bosch "tronic" land. Thanks everyone.
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Thanks Dennis- Those are all good "eliminate these varisble" suggestions.? Can somebody pls tell me (link, book, etc) how the 2.2 OBD1 system compensates for cold weather? What sensors/process/ etc. What is the ECU looking at to add fuel or change the stoichiometric ratio on cold days? Just a basic intro to "Subaru brain flow". I have most time in Bosch "tronic" land. Thanks everyone.
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I will try these out. Thanks.
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Hi Duncan
As with any kind of diagnosing, check the basics first: plugs, spark, fuel pump/pressure, fuel filter, compression, low batt voltage when cranking. Other possible causes--bad ignition sw causing low voltage to ECU, bad grounds (very endemic to Subys-grounds?thru intake manifold-add ground wire direct to head from chassis), make sure you have good starter ground from engine/trans. Look for voltage drops while cranking.
Also, much overlooked, water in gas--pools in bottom of tank overnight, gets pulled into injecters before gas--add gas drier?to tank.
Just a few suggestions from a retired mechanic. Good luck.
Dennis
On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 8:38?AM Duncan Cameron via <duncancameron737= [email protected]> wrote: Hey group.
New Subie guy w/700K+ of Vanagon time... but newly installed 2.2/2.5 Franken. Van is pretty hard to start below about 45F. I have checked some on the forums, seems like the "key on/off repeatedly fuel pump" trickF helps maybe a little. Van runs flawlessly once going, and the 2.5 w mod 2.2 heads feels like the the motor it's was always supposed to have- (thanks to Outback Motors for build.) Anyway I figured I'd replace the OE pump (and filter) just because it has more than 100K, pressure reg seems like it works generally normally but I was wondering do some folks change to to a Subie fuel delivery; pump, filter etc. Is there a check valve as I have seen some mention? Can someone point me to a thread on "Subaru Cold weather system ops" and how the OBD1 system compensates for temps.... pls tell me what other new Subaru parts I can throw at it LOL. I am in the Mnts of Nevada with wild temp swings. (don't get me started on the cabin heating system LOL!!
Install was professionally done last year by an "out of business"shop in SoCal -with his "new" 2.2 drinking a quart of oil every 600 miles (hence Outback saving me)...nice right?? "Thanks and Merry Christmas... I am in awe of you guys that did these harness and all from scratch pretty dang amazing.
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Hey group.
New Subie guy w/700K+ of Vanagon time... but newly installed 2.2/2.5 Franken. Van is pretty hard to start below about 45F. I have checked some on the forums, seems like the "key on/off repeatedly fuel pump" trickF helps maybe a little. Van runs flawlessly once going, and the 2.5 w mod 2.2 heads feels like the the motor it's was always supposed to have- (thanks to Outback Motors for build.) Anyway I figured I'd replace the OE pump (and filter) just because it has more than 100K, pressure reg seems like it works generally normally but I was wondering do some folks change to to a Subie fuel delivery; pump, filter etc. Is there a check valve as I have seen some mention? Can someone point me to a thread on "Subaru Cold weather system ops" and how the OBD1 system compensates for temps.... pls tell me what other new Subaru parts I can throw at it LOL. I am in the Mnts of Nevada with wild temp swings. (don't get me started on the cabin heating system LOL!!
Install was professionally done last year by an "out of business"shop in SoCal -with his "new" 2.2 drinking a quart of oil every 600 miles (hence Outback saving me)...nice right?? "Thanks and Merry Christmas... I am in awe of you guys that did these harness and all from scratch pretty dang amazing.
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Try a little shot of "starting fluid".? If it fires, you have verified that the? ignition is OK.
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Re: Puzzle - Searching Idle (Only with headlights on)
Great problem solving Wayne. I¡¯ll run a jumper as soon as I won¡¯t get into trouble for working on the van during the holiday!!!
I was pondering the alternator as a source of the problem as well.
Headlights turn on, increasing demand from alternator.
Alternator puts additional drag on engine, causing stumble at stop.
Just enough additional load in combination with drag caused by torque converter.
Will let you know.
Best,
Brent
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Re: Puzzle - Searching Idle (Only with headlights on)
Could it be the alternator. I seem to recall some engine weirdness with a faulty alternator. Edit: Fault in your alt to post in black box to Subaru harness? Try running a jumper from alt post to post in black box to see if any change. Loose post connection in black box?
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Hi Todd, That's my vote too. Fuel pressure regulator. It is letting the fuel pressure bleed off in the manifold to injectors. Paul?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 2:25?PM Wayne Sitarz < wesitarz@...> wrote: Fuel pressure regulator?
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I have had the same issue on my 05 Chevy Suburban. I know apples and oranges but hear me out.? My fuel pump was bad. It had a small leak in the internal diaphragm that would slowly leak the fuel pressure were it was difficult to start at first but once going it ran flawlessly unless it sat for about 6 hours, then it would act up again. Once I replaced the pump, no more problems starting at first key turn with almost instantaneous starting.? I hope this helps.?
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On Dec 23, 2023, at 7:25?PM, todd s via groups.io <tsorel1600@...> wrote:
?I converted my 86 Westy to EG33/Subarugears back in 2018 and everything has been peachy until recently. I now need to crank the van for quite some time before it starts. Once it does, it fires right off and idles like there was no problem. I can immediately turn it off and restart with no problem so I don¡¯t think it¡¯s a coolant temperature thing. If it sits overnight, the problem pops up again. It doesn¡¯t seem like it¡¯s flooded as holding the throttle wide open makes no difference. I ?can also let the fuel pump cycle a few times and, no difference. It seems more like an ignition problem than a fuel one though it runs perfectly once it has started. I have read where someone else with a EG33/Impreza swap had the same problem and everyone suggested the coolant sensor but it made no difference to him. The coolant doesn¡¯t warm up without the engine running¡ Mine sounds like exactly the same problem. Has anyone experienced this?
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I converted my 86 Westy to EG33/Subarugears back in 2018 and everything has been peachy until recently. I now need to crank the van for quite some time before it starts. Once it does, it fires right off and idles like there was no problem. I can immediately turn it off and restart with no problem so I don¡¯t think it¡¯s a coolant temperature thing. If it sits overnight, the problem pops up again. It doesn¡¯t seem like it¡¯s flooded as holding the throttle wide open makes no difference. I ?can also let the fuel pump cycle a few times and, no difference. It seems more like an ignition problem than a fuel one though it runs perfectly once it has started. I have read where someone else with a EG33/Impreza swap had the same problem and everyone suggested the coolant sensor but it made no difference to him. The coolant doesn¡¯t warm up without the engine running¡ Mine sounds like exactly the same problem. Has anyone experienced this?
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Re: Where does vacuum for air lockers tie into Subaru?
°¿±ô²µ±ð±ô±ô±ð°ù¡.. If you¡¯re wondering where the brake booster nipple is on your suby engine I¡¯ve got a picture to reference. Take a look at this¡. | |
Brent Weide
John