Re: Engine light check - Smog Check purgatory
Good to know - I¡¯m not alone, lol. What I¡¯ve learned so far is that the check engine light SHOULD go on at startup. Don¡¯t recall if it¡¯s ever gone on, since before and after the conversion. I¡¯ll dig around, popping off the instrument cluster to see if a nothing is obviously causing this. It¡¯s back to Caesar if problems continue.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 16, 2024, at 2:16?PM, RICHARD KOERNER <rjkinpb@...> wrote:
?
Since you are in Paso Robles, and California Westys is in San Diego, how about a quick call to Ceasar there?? He might tell you where to look.? I just got smogged at a Star Station in the San Diego area; I went to 3 shops....all of them said "equipment is down".? Went to a 4th one and passed.? They did ask if I had a BAR sticker (which I did)....that seems to be a growing trend..but all went smoothly (over $100 now for smog check at a Star Station).
On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:01:27 AM PST, Terry Cline <tcline001@...> wrote:
Hi all ¨C I have an ¡¯87 Vanagon conversion, done a year ago November. I¡¯m in California. Just got my first Registration notice that requires a smog check. ? Going through the ringer with the Referee trying to get the Bar Code sticker that all my local smog stations seem to need. Fair enough. ? As part of the referee process, the referee says he needs to see a functional Check Engine light, and I assume he wants to see that it comes on. I don¡¯t know a way to get the light to come on. Needless to say, the engine is in great shape, so no reason for it to come on in the first place. Any ideas? It does not light up when I start the engine. ? This is the Subaru 2.2L conversion, as described by CARB executive order D-428-4, KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products), installed by California Westys in El Cajon, CA. ? In my third day of trying to get a smog check. Ugh. ? Thanks for any ideas on showing a functional Check Engine light. ? Terry Cline Paso Robles, CA 805 305 7638
|
Re: Engine light check - Smog Check purgatory
Since you are in Paso Robles, and California Westys is in San Diego, how about a quick call to Ceasar there?? He might tell you where to look.? I just got smogged at a Star Station in the San Diego area; I went to 3 shops....all of them said "equipment is down".? Went to a 4th one and passed.? They did ask if I had a BAR sticker (which I did)....that seems to be a growing trend..but all went smoothly (over $100 now for smog check at a Star Station).
On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:01:27 AM PST, Terry Cline <tcline001@...> wrote:
Hi all ¨C I have an ¡¯87 Vanagon conversion, done a year ago November. I¡¯m in California. Just got my first Registration notice that requires a smog check. ? Going through the ringer with the Referee trying to get the Bar Code sticker that all my local smog stations seem to need. Fair enough. ? As part of the referee process, the referee says he needs to see a functional Check Engine light, and I assume he wants to see that it comes on. I don¡¯t know a way to get the light to come on. Needless to say, the engine is in great shape, so no reason for it to come on in the first place. Any ideas? It does not light up when I start the engine. ? This is the Subaru 2.2L conversion, as described by CARB executive order D-428-4, KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products), installed by California Westys in El Cajon, CA. ? In my third day of trying to get a smog check. Ugh. ? Thanks for any ideas on showing a functional Check Engine light. ? Terry Cline Paso Robles, CA 805 305 7638
|
Re: Engine light check - Smog Check purgatory
Thanks. It¡¯s definitely not coming on during start up/ignition. I can take the dash off, have done that. What should I be looking for? Wiring issue at the light itself? Bad ignition switch? Ground missing somehow? Other??
Dang!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 16, 2024, at 2:01?PM, Aristotle Sagan <killer.jupiter@...> wrote:
? I feel for you. My wife didn't bother to change the address for her 98 Yukon when we moved here to Nipomo from the Bay area. Try finding a Star inspection station in south SLO county. Finally found one in Oceana. I would go back to California Westys as the install doesn't sound complete. t
Terry All they need to see is the light to come on when you turn the key. If it's not coming on then, maybe it is not hooked up, or something like that. Dennis
On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 11:01?AM Terry Cline < tcline001@...> wrote: Hi all ¨C I have an ¡¯87 Vanagon conversion, done a year ago November. I¡¯m in California. Just got my first Registration notice that requires a smog check. ? Going through the ringer with the Referee trying to get the Bar Code sticker that all my local smog stations seem to need. Fair enough. ? As part of the referee process, the referee says he needs to see a functional Check Engine light, and I assume he wants to see that it comes on. I don¡¯t know a way to get the light to come on. Needless to say, the engine is in great shape, so no reason for it to come on in the first place. Any ideas? It does not light up when I start the engine. ? This is the Subaru 2.2L conversion, as described by CARB executive order D-428-4, KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products), installed by California Westys in El Cajon, CA. ? In my third day of trying to get a smog check. Ugh. ? Thanks for any ideas on showing a functional Check Engine light. ? Terry Cline Paso Robles, CA 805 305 7638
Where ever you are, there you be. Unless you're driving my van, in which case, you ain't got there yet.
|
Re: Engine light check - Smog Check purgatory
I feel for you. My wife didn't bother to change the address for her 98 Yukon when we moved here to Nipomo from the Bay area. Try finding a Star inspection station in south SLO county. Finally found one in Oceana. I would go back to California Westys as the install doesn't sound complete. t
Terry All they need to see is the light to come on when you turn the key. If it's not coming on then, maybe it is not hooked up, or something like that. Dennis
On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 11:01?AM Terry Cline < tcline001@...> wrote: Hi all ¨C I have an ¡¯87 Vanagon conversion, done a year ago November. I¡¯m in California. Just got my first Registration notice that requires a smog check. ? Going through the ringer with the Referee trying to get the Bar Code sticker that all my local smog stations seem to need. Fair enough. ? As part of the referee process, the referee says he needs to see a functional Check Engine light, and I assume he wants to see that it comes on. I don¡¯t know a way to get the light to come on. Needless to say, the engine is in great shape, so no reason for it to come on in the first place. Any ideas? It does not light up when I start the engine. ? This is the Subaru 2.2L conversion, as described by CARB executive order D-428-4, KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products), installed by California Westys in El Cajon, CA. ? In my third day of trying to get a smog check. Ugh. ? Thanks for any ideas on showing a functional Check Engine light. ? Terry Cline Paso Robles, CA 805 305 7638
-- Where ever you are, there you be. Unless you're driving my van, in which case, you ain't got there yet.
|
Re: Engine light check - Smog Check purgatory
Terry All they need to see is the light to come on when you turn the key. If it's not coming on then, maybe it is not hooked up, or something like that. Dennis
On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 11:01?AM Terry Cline < tcline001@...> wrote: Hi all ¨C I have an ¡¯87 Vanagon conversion, done a year ago November. I¡¯m in California. Just got my first Registration notice that requires a smog check. ? Going through the ringer with the Referee trying to get the Bar Code sticker that all my local smog stations seem to need. Fair enough. ? As part of the referee process, the referee says he needs to see a functional Check Engine light, and I assume he wants to see that it comes on. I don¡¯t know a way to get the light to come on. Needless to say, the engine is in great shape, so no reason for it to come on in the first place. Any ideas? It does not light up when I start the engine. ? This is the Subaru 2.2L conversion, as described by CARB executive order D-428-4, KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products), installed by California Westys in El Cajon, CA. ? In my third day of trying to get a smog check. Ugh. ? Thanks for any ideas on showing a functional Check Engine light. ? Terry Cline Paso Robles, CA 805 305 7638
|
Engine light check - Smog Check purgatory
Hi all ¨C I have an ¡¯87 Vanagon conversion, done a year ago November. I¡¯m in California. Just got my first Registration notice that requires a smog check. ? Going through the ringer with the Referee trying to get the Bar Code sticker that all my local smog stations seem to need. Fair enough. ? As part of the referee process, the referee says he needs to see a functional Check Engine light, and I assume he wants to see that it comes on. I don¡¯t know a way to get the light to come on. Needless to say, the engine is in great shape, so no reason for it to come on in the first place. Any ideas? It does not light up when I start the engine. ? This is the Subaru 2.2L conversion, as described by CARB executive order D-428-4, KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products), installed by California Westys in El Cajon, CA. ? In my third day of trying to get a smog check. Ugh. ? Thanks for any ideas on showing a functional Check Engine light. ? Terry Cline Paso Robles, CA 805 305 7638
|
Re: CEL on for a few minutes or a few miles and goes off
I haven't watched the attached youtubes yet...but you are right...sometimes it takes a simple reset of computer to get things back working right.? When I cleaned IACV and Throttle Body, new PCV valve and cleaning out the crud inside rubber hoses, the ECU went nuts!? It was not used to clean parts!? So I discharged ECU capacitors by disconnecting Negative from chassis, and then jumper from Positive to chassis.? Left it overnight.? Back to factory.? And yes, the ECU "gradually" re-learns, makes adjustments incrementally; in my case, it took 20 drive cycles.? But it got there, and holds there.? Each drive cycle was improvement; of course biggest improvements were in the first 5, but by 20 it was rock solid.? EJ22.
On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 05:33:56 PM PST, Wayne Sitarz <wesitarz@...> wrote:
One from good old Scotty Kilmer and one from Mr Subaru on YouTube.
?
Also you might have to wait until it goes through a few drive cycles.
|
Re: CEL on for a few minutes or a few miles and goes off
One from good old Scotty Kilmer and one from Mr Subaru on YouTube.
?
Also you might have to wait until it goes through a few drive cycles.
|
Re: CEL on for a few minutes or a few miles and goes off
Online it says it could be an ECU problem. Start looking for a replacement before you get a no start. Have you tried a reset by D/C battery and connect positive cable to ground to totally discharge the capacitors on the ECU?
|
I understand how the system works
|
I believe you don't understand the operation of the pressure regulator, specially on these engines (and typical return style fuel injection FPRs)? usually the style used is call a by-pass regulator
On a typical fuel injected car (which has a return) you check the fuel pressure on the feed side with a tee fitting (in line with the feed) to get an accurate reading.? usually you do not dead head the system, be it feed or the return, which can cause damage to the fuel pump, pop a fuel line and thou not common lock an injector in the open position
So on the feed side, it should be @40 psi =/- 5 psi (don't know the specs off hand) with the fuel pressure gauge inline with the feed line (allow the fuel to go to the engine) the return should be left open to return to the tank (if plugged it will build up pressure to what the fuel pump can pump too, since the excess pressure can't be bleed off)
Now a return-less system, thou one would think its deadhead, and typically it is, but the excess pressure is usually bleed off inside the tank ('06+ EJ253s), or the pump is just PWM controlled with a feed back control from the fuel rail pressure sensor
|
Don¡¯t think you understood how I applied the gauge. I did not tee it in, I essentially plugged the outlet line with the gauge. 65 psi is the capability of the stick Vanagon pump when it is fully ¡°dead headed¡±. The fuel pressure regulator is supposed to drop that down to 36 psi to supply the engine, with the rest returning to the tank.
|
I do not know if 65 PSI is appropriate.? But I do know that if you have pressure on the return side of the regulator then you have a restriction or I would say blockage on the return side.? There should be ambient pressure at all times on the return side.?
?
I would perform the measurements again and confirm the findings.
?
Harold Mead
?
?
From: "todd s via groups.io" <tsorel1600@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2023 5:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SubaruVanagon] EG33 Hard Start
?
It¡¯s the fuel pressure regulator. I put a gauge on the pressure side out of the pump and saw 65psi. I then put the gauge on the return line off the fuel rail and saw 65psi. The regulator was just letting the fuel right through. I left the gauge on (dead headed) and cranked the engine, it fired right up. I guess the FPR is acting too slow to close. I just need to determine now if it uses manifold vacuum to close or vacuum to open before I replace it.
?
|
It¡¯s the fuel pressure regulator. I put a gauge on the pressure side out of the pump and saw 65psi. I then put the gauge on the return line off the fuel rail and saw 65psi. The regulator was just letting the fuel right through. I left the gauge on (dead headed) and cranked the engine, it fired right up. I guess the FPR is acting too slow to close. I just need to determine now if it uses manifold vacuum to close or vacuum to open before I replace it.
|
Hi Duncan Looking at the schematic for the 2.2, I don't see anything like a cold start injector or cold start relay. I'm no expert on OBD1, altho I'm currently running an SVX OBD1, but it would appear that all cold start enrichment takes place in the ECU, probably?based on the signal from the Engine Temp sensor. If the Temp Sensor signal is correct, then your problem is more likely an issue with fuel, or voltage drops. Dennis
On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 8:36?AM Duncan Cameron via <duncancameron737= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Dennis- Those are all good "eliminate these varisble" suggestions.? Can somebody pls tell me (link, book, etc) how the 2.2 OBD1 system compensates for cold weather? What sensors/process/ etc. What is the ECU looking at to add fuel or change the stoichiometric ratio on cold days? Just a basic intro to "Subaru brain flow". I have most time in Bosch "tronic" land. Thanks everyone.
|
Thanks Dennis- Those are all good "eliminate these varisble" suggestions.? Can somebody pls tell me (link, book, etc) how the 2.2 OBD1 system compensates for cold weather? What sensors/process/ etc. What is the ECU looking at to add fuel or change the stoichiometric ratio on cold days? Just a basic intro to "Subaru brain flow". I have most time in Bosch "tronic" land. Thanks everyone.
|
I will try these out. Thanks.
|
Hi Duncan
As with any kind of diagnosing, check the basics first: plugs, spark, fuel pump/pressure, fuel filter, compression, low batt voltage when cranking. Other possible causes--bad ignition sw causing low voltage to ECU, bad grounds (very endemic to Subys-grounds?thru intake manifold-add ground wire direct to head from chassis), make sure you have good starter ground from engine/trans. Look for voltage drops while cranking.
Also, much overlooked, water in gas--pools in bottom of tank overnight, gets pulled into injecters before gas--add gas drier?to tank.
Just a few suggestions from a retired mechanic. Good luck.
Dennis
On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 8:38?AM Duncan Cameron via <duncancameron737= [email protected]> wrote: Hey group.
New Subie guy w/700K+ of Vanagon time... but newly installed 2.2/2.5 Franken. Van is pretty hard to start below about 45F. I have checked some on the forums, seems like the "key on/off repeatedly fuel pump" trickF helps maybe a little. Van runs flawlessly once going, and the 2.5 w mod 2.2 heads feels like the the motor it's was always supposed to have- (thanks to Outback Motors for build.) Anyway I figured I'd replace the OE pump (and filter) just because it has more than 100K, pressure reg seems like it works generally normally but I was wondering do some folks change to to a Subie fuel delivery; pump, filter etc. Is there a check valve as I have seen some mention? Can someone point me to a thread on "Subaru Cold weather system ops" and how the OBD1 system compensates for temps.... pls tell me what other new Subaru parts I can throw at it LOL. I am in the Mnts of Nevada with wild temp swings. (don't get me started on the cabin heating system LOL!!
Install was professionally done last year by an "out of business"shop in SoCal -with his "new" 2.2 drinking a quart of oil every 600 miles (hence Outback saving me)...nice right?? "Thanks and Merry Christmas... I am in awe of you guys that did these harness and all from scratch pretty dang amazing.
|
Hey group.
New Subie guy w/700K+ of Vanagon time... but newly installed 2.2/2.5 Franken. Van is pretty hard to start below about 45F. I have checked some on the forums, seems like the "key on/off repeatedly fuel pump" trickF helps maybe a little. Van runs flawlessly once going, and the 2.5 w mod 2.2 heads feels like the the motor it's was always supposed to have- (thanks to Outback Motors for build.) Anyway I figured I'd replace the OE pump (and filter) just because it has more than 100K, pressure reg seems like it works generally normally but I was wondering do some folks change to to a Subie fuel delivery; pump, filter etc. Is there a check valve as I have seen some mention? Can someone point me to a thread on "Subaru Cold weather system ops" and how the OBD1 system compensates for temps.... pls tell me what other new Subaru parts I can throw at it LOL. I am in the Mnts of Nevada with wild temp swings. (don't get me started on the cabin heating system LOL!!
Install was professionally done last year by an "out of business"shop in SoCal -with his "new" 2.2 drinking a quart of oil every 600 miles (hence Outback saving me)...nice right?? "Thanks and Merry Christmas... I am in awe of you guys that did these harness and all from scratch pretty dang amazing.
|
Try a little shot of "starting fluid".? If it fires, you have verified that the? ignition is OK.
|
Terry Cline