Re: Main relay stays on with engine off, key out!
Well . not sure how conventional my +ve post connector is but I can disconnect the big line to the starter from the fused wiring . maybe disconnect the two and eliminate the potential starter/alternator drain ?? . any other aftermarket
gizmos wired in ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Redder via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2023 7:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SubaruVanagon] Main relay stays on with engine off, key out!
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Hi Wayne,? yes you are absolutely correct.? There is supposed to be positive to the main relay, but as I understand it, the main relay shouldn't close unless triggered by the ignition.? Mine is closed and drawing amperage.? The "control
circuit" on the relay is being triggered, I believe, by pin 19 on B135.? ?Meanwhile, I think that if the main relay is closed, all of the sensors are also powered and would drain power.? I have a confirmed a significant power draw with the key out and all
other connections disconnected as listed in my post.? That's what's puzzling.
Also, Dr. Mark, you too are correct.? I had a radio that was draining the power a few years back.?
Thank you both for taking the time to read and respond and I hope I interpreted your replies correctly. --Greg
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Re: Main relay stays on with engine off, key out!
Hi Wayne,? yes you are absolutely correct.? There is supposed to be positive to the main relay, but as I understand it, the main relay shouldn't close unless triggered by the ignition.? Mine is closed and drawing amperage.? The "control circuit" on the relay is being triggered, I believe, by pin 19 on B135.? ?Meanwhile, I think that if the main relay is closed, all of the sensors are also powered and would drain power.? I have a confirmed a significant power draw with the key out and all other connections disconnected as listed in my post.? That's what's puzzling.
Also, Dr. Mark, you too are correct.? I had a radio that was draining the power a few years back.?
Thank you both for taking the time to read and respond and I hope I interpreted your replies correctly. --Greg
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Re: Main relay stays on with engine off, key out!
There is always battery + to the relay. It is triggered by ignition +. A few months ago there was a question about one of the wires being + and I confirmed it with a test light to my 02 2.5. My memory is fuzzy about it other than that. I? don't think your battery drain was due to that.
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Re: Main relay stays on with engine off, key out!
I had a power amp installed under the driver seat that used to drain my battery. I know the fridge wiring down there is a little odd .
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Redder via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2023 1:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [SubaruVanagon] Main relay stays on with engine off, key out!
?
I'm pulling out what's left of my hair... I have an '86 Westy that I used the RMW kit to install a 2002 Subaru Legacy Outback's EJ25 into.? ?RMW did the wiring harness for me and I did the install in late 2018. Everything has been absolutely
great with that kit and the engine.? A little while back, I went to drive it and the battery was dead.? I believe the problem is due to the main relay being on regardless of the ignition switch status.? I have a 22611 AG51B ECU.? It starts and runs great otherwise.
I have tried the following:
-
I removed all fuses under the dash.
-
I removed all power connections to the wiring panel under the dash.
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I removed the ignition switch connections.
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I have disconnected the aux battery.
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I have replaced the main relay.
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I have removed the fuel pump relay and this doesn't change the problem
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I have made sure there are no shorts/burns in the back of the fuse panel under the dash.? That's already happened to me once in the past - hard lesson learned there ;-)
-
I have cleaned all grounds under dash, in rear engine compartment, on engine block, on chassis and on the transmission.?
-
Basically, the only power going anywhere at this point is the cable coming from the battery and terminating onto the "post" in the wiring block in the driver side, front part of the engine compartment. That wire also is connected to one of the two fused connections
under the bench seat.? I have confirmed 12v going to that fused connection.
-
In this state, if I remove all but the middle ECU connector ("B135"? in the wiring diagram) the main relay will come on.
-
Removing B135 from the ECU does prevent the main relay from coming on.? So it would seem B135 and the ECU have something to do with this problem.
So, I suspected that something about that connector was triggering the main relay.? If I disconnect that ECU connector (B135) I noted there was battery power on pin 7 of that connector even with everything else listed above disconnected.?
That doesn't seem right, does it?? There should only be power on that pin with the key in and ignition on or in start position, I thought.
Also, it appears that the main relay is triggered because power is sent out of B135 pin 19 ("self-shutoff control") even with the key off and out of the ignition and everything above that I listed remains disconnected.
If this is covered somewhere else in this forum, I would appreciate a link to it.? I simply couldn't find a reference to the same problem...similar, but not to the degree I seem to be having this problem - everything disconnected including ignition wires.
Does any kind soul out there have any insight to what's going on here, please?? ?
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Main relay stays on with engine off, key out!
I'm pulling out what's left of my hair... I have an '86 Westy that I used the RMW kit to install a 2002 Subaru Legacy Outback's EJ25 into.? ?RMW did the wiring harness for me and I did the install in late 2018. Everything has been absolutely great with that kit and the engine.? A little while back, I went to drive it and the battery was dead.? I believe the problem is due to the main relay being on regardless of the ignition switch status.? I have a 22611 AG51B ECU.? It starts and runs great otherwise. I have tried the following:
- I removed all fuses under the dash.
- I removed all power connections to the wiring panel under the dash.
- I removed the ignition switch connections.
- I have disconnected the aux battery.
- I have replaced the main relay.
- I have removed the fuel pump relay and this doesn't change the problem
- I have made sure there are no shorts/burns in the back of the fuse panel under the dash.? That's already happened to me once in the past - hard lesson learned there ;-)
- I have cleaned all grounds under dash, in rear engine compartment, on engine block, on chassis and on the transmission.?
- Basically, the only power going anywhere at this point is the cable coming from the battery and terminating onto the "post" in the wiring block in the driver side, front part of the engine compartment. That wire also is connected to one of the two fused connections under the bench seat.? I have confirmed 12v going to that fused connection.
- In this state, if I remove all but the middle ECU connector ("B135"? in the wiring diagram) the main relay will come on.
- Removing B135 from the ECU does prevent the main relay from coming on.? So it would seem B135 and the ECU have something to do with this problem.
So, I suspected that something about that connector was triggering the main relay.? If I disconnect that ECU connector (B135) I noted there was battery power on pin 7 of that connector even with everything else listed above disconnected.? That doesn't seem right, does it?? There should only be power on that pin with the key in and ignition on or in start position, I thought. Also, it appears that the main relay is triggered because power is sent out of B135 pin 19 ("self-shutoff control") even with the key off and out of the ignition and everything above that I listed remains disconnected. If this is covered somewhere else in this forum, I would appreciate a link to it.? I simply couldn't find a reference to the same problem...similar, but not to the degree I seem to be having this problem - everything disconnected including ignition wires. Does any kind soul out there have any insight to what's going on here, please?? ?
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Re: Evoscan . speed sensor signal . & other signals
Baja Dan maybe ?? He spent a huge amount of time on the issue and gauge replacements .?
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On Feb 16, 2023, at 2:29 PM, mark via groups.io <mark@...> wrote:
?
I think what is most important is that your VSS can show some variability in speed, and indicate 0 mph.? I installed a Dakota Digital interface.? Mine was installed quite some time ago so I can’t comment on the new versions, but mine works
great.? It allows me to dial in the speed to match my GPS.? Small enough to fit inside the instrument cluster housing and fairly easy to install.? I had gotten the idea from another list member however I can’t recall who.?
?
Mark
’89 Westy Syncro
?
?
Hi .?
?I am doing my best with evoscan without support .?
?quick question .?
?I know there are many ways to get a speed signal back to the ECU . Mine is a sensor off the back of the speedometer . i drove while logging data with the EVOscan yesterday and to my surprise I am reading a much higher speed than indicated on the speedometer
of GPS . . I have used this setup for 100k miles on the previous longblock so i cant imagine it's that big of an issue but has anyone seen the need to adjust the speed feed ...?
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Re: Evoscan . speed sensor signal . & other signals
I think what is most important is that your VSS can show some variability in speed, and indicate 0 mph.? I installed a Dakota Digital interface.? Mine was installed quite some time ago so I can’t comment on the new versions, but mine works great.? It allows me to dial in the speed to match my GPS.? Small enough to fit inside the instrument cluster housing and fairly easy to install.? I had gotten the idea from another list member however I can’t recall who.? ? Mark ’89 Westy Syncro ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dr Mark Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 9:32 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [SubaruVanagon] Evoscan . speed sensor signal . & other signals ? Hi .?
?I am doing my best with evoscan without support .?
?quick question .?
?I know there are many ways to get a speed signal back to the ECU . Mine is a sensor off the back of the speedometer . i drove while logging data with the EVOscan yesterday and to my surprise I am reading a much higher speed than indicated on the speedometer of GPS . . I have used this setup for 100k miles on the previous longblock so i cant imagine it's that big of an issue but has anyone seen the need to adjust the speed feed ...?
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On Feb 15, 2023, at 10:32 AM, BlacknWhite via groups.io <general@...> wrote:
?Just to update this thread.
Last year I installed the Fast Forward Automotive? Hasenwerk VSS Korrekt Speed Signal Calibrator that can convert the frequency of one pulse train to another:
http://fastforward.ca/signalprocessors/ (about 2/3 of the way down the page). I installed it, and went for a series of short drives, each time adjusting the converter so that the speedo reading coinsicded with the GPS reading and the OBDII reading. It took
two or three tries. That fixed the overspeed cutout problem with the Subaru EMU.
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Re: Evoscan . speed sensor signal . & other signals
Just to update that thread, last year I installed the Fast Forward Automotive? Hasenwerk VSS Korrekt Speed Signal Calibrator that can convert the frequency of one pulse train to another:
http://fastforward.ca/signalprocessors/ (about 2/3 of the way down the page). I installed it, and went for a series of short drives, each time adjusting the converter so that the speedo reading coinsicded with the GPS reading and the OBDII reading. It took two or three tries. That fixed the overspeed cutout problem with the Subaru EMU.
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Just to update this thread.
Last year I installed the Fast Forward Automotive? Hasenwerk VSS Korrekt Speed Signal Calibrator that can convert the frequency of one pulse train to another:
http://fastforward.ca/signalprocessors/ (about 2/3 of the way down the page). I installed it, and went for a series of short drives, each time adjusting the converter so that the speedo reading coinsicded with the GPS reading and the OBDII reading. It took two or three tries. That fixed the overspeed cutout problem with the Subaru EMU.
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Re: Evoscan . speed sensor signal . & other signals
Funny thing is that I have been running this for a decade and never noticed a cutout at speed . maybe it’s a OBD II thing . I use OBD I for California reasons …
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Re: Evoscan . speed sensor signal . & other signals
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Evoscan . speed sensor signal . & other signals
Hi .?
?I am doing my best with evoscan without support .?
?quick question .?
?I know there are many ways to get a speed signal back to the ECU . Mine is a sensor off the back of the speedometer . i drove while logging data with the EVOscan yesterday and to my surprise I am reading a much higher speed than indicated on the speedometer of GPS . . I have used this setup for 100k miles on the previous longblock so i cant imagine it's that big of an issue but has anyone seen the need to adjust the speed feed ...?
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"No-Donor" Harness Launch
Greetings,
?
Since taking over SCP 2 years ago we have been slowly revamping, creating, and building new solutions for our beloved Vanagons.? I want to thank everyone who has responded for beta testing the next generation of interface board.? The boards
should be here in the coming weeks for QA and we will reach out to people interested!? ???
?
In the meantime, we have been working hard to stand up production for “no-donor” harnesses.? We are live and scalable.? Imagine a world where the harness is on the shelf ready to go or the lead time is a few days?? There is no need to hack
together old shoddy wires that have been through thousands of heating and cooling cycles.? And for those of you in 49 states (sorry CA)—this should be a welcomed addition to arsenal of products to create your next generation of Vanagon using drive by wire
motors with higher HP and better reliability profiles.?
?
We will be evaluating more model/year combinations and there will be some opportunities to create harnesses to satisfy more people’s needs.?
?
Austin Nichols
Owner/Engineer
(253) 473-2474
View our terms and conditions
?
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Re: Anyone want a free chipped EG33 ECU and/or MAF sensor?
I will send the ECU to you when/if I find it. Do I have your address yet??
Jeff: Derek sent me an email saying he only eeds the MAF. I'll take the ecu ifit is still available. Please email me at:??whocanduncan1@...
Thx!
Duncan
512.350.9862
--
Freedom van Go
1989 Westy, 3.3L SVX
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Re: Anyone want a free chipped EG33 ECU and/or MAF sensor?
Jeff: Derek sent me an email saying he only eeds the MAF. I'll take the ecu ifit is still available. Please email me at:??whocanduncan1@...Thx!
Duncan
512.350.9862
-- Freedom van Go 1989 Westy, 3.3L SVX
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Just turn on the?dome light and disconnect one battery wire.? The?dome light bulb will??discharge the caps just fine.?? On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 7:59 PM RICHARD KOERNER < rjkinpb@...> wrote:
Shoot...now you guys are making me all nervous!? OK Richard.....settle down....rethink.? First, remove Negative Ground from Battery; heck that can do no harm.? Second...a jumper wire from Positive to Ground Wire; I mean, as powerful as that battery is, once you remove cable to Negative, it's just nothing.? Third....I guess there is no third.? Sitting overnight, all electricity in ECU will be completely drained and back to Factory.? Then reconnect all back together.? And like I said....it will take numerous start/drive/shutdown events for ECU to relearn current situation with all sensors; that poor thing is processing a bunch of information, and much of it comes from dirty sensors.? The Subie Engineers only allowed for incremental adjustments in the "Brain"....so the process is somewhat slow.....they didn't want you to screw stuff up too much.
On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 06:35:42 PM PST, SEAN GARRETT via <doit.outdoors= [email protected]> wrote:
I didn’t follow the procedure as described, i had that exact thought to. I youtube the procedure and used that instead. On Feb 6, 2023, at 6:13 PM, RICHARD KOERNER <rjkinpb@...> wrote:
?
No.? It is simple and straightforward.? Like I said, remove Negative from battery.? Hook up jumper from Positive to removed ground wire at Negative like I spoke of.? Electricity will effortlessly drain out of capacitors in ECU; I spoke of overnight, and this is probably not necessary, heck just go buy a pizza or something; but in my experience your really want old memory to be totally deleted.? The ECU's mind will now be back to factory settings. But really....keep the Red Wire on Positive Terminal.? Disconnect the Black Wire on Negative Terminal, typically a 10 mm wrench.? Little wire from Positive to removed Ground; it probably only takes a few seconds.....but, what the heck, capacitors are a little mysterious.....so draining them overnight is not a bad idea.
-- Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself) Spouse, dad, friend < eric@...> It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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Shoot...now you guys are making me all nervous!? OK Richard.....settle down....rethink.? First, remove Negative Ground from Battery; heck that can do no harm.? Second...a jumper wire from Positive to Ground Wire; I mean, as powerful as that battery is, once you remove cable to Negative, it's just nothing.? Third....I guess there is no third.? Sitting overnight, all electricity in ECU will be completely drained and back to Factory.? Then reconnect all back together.? And like I said....it will take numerous start/drive/shutdown events for ECU to relearn current situation with all sensors; that poor thing is processing a bunch of information, and much of it comes from dirty sensors.? The Subie Engineers only allowed for incremental adjustments in the "Brain"....so the process is somewhat slow.....they didn't want you to screw stuff up too much.
On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 06:35:42 PM PST, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote:
I didn’t follow the procedure as described, i had that exact thought to. I youtube the procedure and used that instead.
On Feb 6, 2023, at 6:13 PM, RICHARD KOERNER <rjkinpb@...> wrote:
?
No.? It is simple and straightforward.? Like I said, remove Negative from battery.? Hook up jumper from Positive to removed ground wire at Negative like I spoke of.? Electricity will effortlessly drain out of capacitors in ECU; I spoke of overnight, and this is probably not necessary, heck just go buy a pizza or something; but in my experience your really want old memory to be totally deleted.? The ECU's mind will now be back to factory settings. But really....keep the Red Wire on Positive Terminal.? Disconnect the Black Wire on Negative Terminal, typically a 10 mm wrench.? Little wire from Positive to removed Ground; it probably only takes a few seconds.....but, what the heck, capacitors are a little mysterious.....so draining them overnight is not a bad idea.
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I didn’t follow the procedure as described, i had that exact thought to. I youtube the procedure and used that instead.
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On Feb 6, 2023, at 6:13 PM, RICHARD KOERNER <rjkinpb@...> wrote:
?
No.? It is simple and straightforward.? Like I said, remove Negative from battery.? Hook up jumper from Positive to removed ground wire at Negative like I spoke of.? Electricity will effortlessly drain out of capacitors in ECU; I spoke of overnight, and this is probably not necessary, heck just go buy a pizza or something; but in my experience your really want old memory to be totally deleted.? The ECU's mind will now be back to factory settings. But really....keep the Red Wire on Positive Terminal.? Disconnect the Black Wire on Negative Terminal, typically a 10 mm wrench.? Little wire from Positive to removed Ground; it probably only takes a few seconds.....but, what the heck, capacitors are a little mysterious.....so draining them overnight is not a bad idea.
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No.? It is simple and straightforward.? Like I said, remove Negative from battery.? Hook up jumper from Positive to removed ground wire at Negative like I spoke of.? Electricity will effortlessly drain out of capacitors in ECU; I spoke of overnight, and this is probably not necessary, heck just go buy a pizza or something; but in my experience your really want old memory to be totally deleted.? The ECU's mind will now be back to factory settings. But really....keep the Red Wire on Positive Terminal.? Disconnect the Black Wire on Negative Terminal, typically a 10 mm wrench.? Little wire from Positive to removed Ground; it probably only takes a few seconds.....but, what the heck, capacitors are a little mysterious.....so draining them overnight is not a bad idea.
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Dr Mark
Duncan