Re: will adding a cat reduce the gas smell?
WOW, that is even more fascinating. So you are telling me as long as I don't have O2 sensors it will run in an even different mode and be fine?
I could even run a cat and it would be fine, and work, possibly for YEARS?
Unbelievable. I'm glad I asked. Thanks. To hell with the O2 sensors, let's slap on a cat.!
I won't bother to tell you how many D.A.s told me the system fell back on "Limp Mode" when run without O2 sensors or a cat, but there have been PLENTY.
I knew I wasn't running in Limp mode because I have driven a car in limp mode and they don't call it that for nothing.
Neil
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Re: will adding a cat reduce the gas smell?
................................................... I do have a smell that I thought was a "Rich" mixture at idle, that I now know may be what you are describing. ......................... If you have no O2 control at all, the ECU falls back on a speed density strategy and slowly increases c/o % as rpm's rise and TPS reports increased throttle openings. If I measure 0.490vdc on the signal line from the ECU, which is normal voltage... (for the O2, with the O2 disconnected,)....c/o % usually goes from idle of 0.260vdc to 0.650vdc oscillating, ( reading feed back from the disconnected O2.). Median being 0.450vdc with cross over at about 2 per second. As rpm's rise this voltage swings from 0.500vdc to 0.150vdc at part throttle rising to 0.730vdc to 0.800vdc. Then over 4000 rpm it peaks around 0.980vdc up to WOT. At high loads and rpm's with rich mixture of over 0.900vdc, the Cat' is able to do it's job. Stoich' is around 13.5/14.5 to 1 ratio, or 0.450vdc on a Bosch single wire O2, but some Asian O2's will read different. Usually if your eyes water from the tail pipe fumes, it's running rich. FYI. When Porsche sent the first 928 cars over to the USA they ran the same EFI and Cat' they used in Europe but with no O2 control on pin#22. Porsche had set the system to run close to 0.875vdc all through the rev range....and at any throttle load ...Cat's ran okay for years. .
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Re: Is it a 97 or 99 2.2?
Todd,
Check the passenger side of the engine, near where it mates to the tranny, there should be a serial number there.
What is the tenth digit? It should be a letter. This letter corresponds to the year.
For the record, both 97 and 99 will be OBDII>
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--- In subaruvanagon@..., "Todd" <tschroeder0@...> wrote:
Hi all,
I apologize ahead of time if this is easy, I looked but I am having trouble finding out exactly what engine I have. I came across a cheap, very well running 2.2 with just over 100K. I had to leave town just after I bouth it and was having it pulled by the shop from the donor car. Upon returning There seemed to be some dissagreement on what year this actually is. Does this even matter? I beleive that the 97 is an obd1 and a 99 would be an obd2 correct?
One guy claims it's a 97 but anothe said that under the hood it said 99 obd2?
It came out of what I believe was a legacy wagon (sorry I had to leave quick for a family emergency out of state)
Any help is very appreciated as well as any thoughts on my swap- I will be getting the RMW kit.
Thank you, Todd.
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Re: Is it a 97 or 99 2.2?
Both 97 and 99 are OBDII engines. If you got engine, harness, ECU etc
from same car there is nothing to be concerned with
You can find out for sure by googling ECU part#
Leon
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On 3/26/2012 8:08 PM, Todd wrote:
Hi all,
I apologize ahead of time if this is easy, I looked but I am having
trouble finding out exactly what engine I have. I came across a cheap,
very well running 2.2 with just over 100K. I had to leave town just
after I bouth it and was having it pulled by the shop from the donor
car. Upon returning There seemed to be some dissagreement on what year
this actually is. Does this even matter? I beleive that the 97 is an
obd1 and a 99 would be an obd2 correct?
One guy claims it's a 97 but anothe said that under the hood it said
99 obd2?
It came out of what I believe was a legacy wagon (sorry I had to leave
quick for a family emergency out of state)
Any help is very appreciated as well as any thoughts on my swap- I
will be getting the RMW kit.
Thank you, Todd.
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Hi all,
I apologize ahead of time if this is easy, I looked but I am having trouble finding out exactly what engine I have. I came across a cheap, very well running 2.2 with just over 100K. I had to leave town just after I bouth it and was having it pulled by the shop from the donor car. Upon returning There seemed to be some dissagreement on what year this actually is. Does this even matter? I beleive that the 97 is an obd1 and a 99 would be an obd2 correct?
One guy claims it's a 97 but anothe said that under the hood it said 99 obd2?
It came out of what I believe was a legacy wagon (sorry I had to leave quick for a family emergency out of state)
Any help is very appreciated as well as any thoughts on my swap- I will be getting the RMW kit.
Thank you, Todd.
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Re: will adding a cat reduce the gas smell?
Thank you, Don. Most excellent description!
I am intrigued by this discussion and although I have no intention of hijacking his thread, I will say I do not currently have a cat or O2 sensors on my late model SVX and I do have a smell that I thought was a "Rich" mixture at idle, that I now know may be what you are describing. While I know for a fact plenty of people have run plenty of miles with no adverse effects, your reasoning certainly seems sound, and I will be installing a cat and O2 sensors ASAP. Thanks and I hope this helps the OP as well.
Neil
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Re: will adding a cat reduce the gas smell?
Don- I understand the principles and possibilities behind what you stated but I am curious if you are aware of any exhaust valves actually being fried either by direct experience or firsthand knowledge?
................. Neil
I have been a tech for 45 years and yes I see eroded exhaust seats and valve from lean running 'under load'. The valve seat is eroded by the long burn time of mixtures when lean conditions exist. Combustion temperatures decease as lean of peak is exceeded but as further lean out is approached, temperatures soar....this is the point where valves and seats start eroding. Most aircraft engines benefit from LOP by 35% but only run 2600rpm cruise.....but a Vanagon is no aircraft. Due to head wind pressures and design, a Vanagon will need 3500rpm and up + near WOT or over 80% of throttle to maintain 70mph. You would over stress a Lycoming or Continental if you ran that hard. This required power and rpm to maintain heading is what causes a creep up of combustion temperatures and therefor heat damage if you don't first hear detonation, and Subaru is pretty good at killing det' with combustion chamber design and knock sensing. Beside the fact it is very difficult to hear det' from a rear engined vehicle and high rpm. The problem of heat damage is not something that happens in a few miles but takes several hundreds of miles until valve sealing is compromised. Often before this happens the spark plug causes det' destruction to the piston crown. What your friend is smelling is a combination of engine heat and high NOX combined along with fuel additives in the gasoline from the refineries. A Cat' equipped OBDII system uses the B1/S2 to modify the fueling and report on Cat' efficiency. Doing so allows the system to run around 13 to 15 to 1 and richer depending on lead, and it seems the Japanese have built in a strategy to increase fueling as WOT is approached and rpms climb above 4000rpm. I see c/o % going to 11.5 to 1 under WOT at 5k. A trick to allow ECU to read what it needs is to install the B1/S2 in the end of a tube welded to the exhaust down stream so gases are stagnant up to a point and cross counts of B1/S2 O2 slow down. .
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Re: ej22 syncro camper fuel economy
I get similar figures on the highway as I do around town. On the highway I cruise at around 60mph if not a tad faster. I'd like to have a taller 3rd and 4th but have my doubts the syncro will be able to pull it. To: subaruvanagon@... From: luke@... Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:19:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [subaruvanagon] ej22 syncro camper fuel economy 16.8 mpg at what speed? I get 21 mpg in my syncro westy, 2.5L '03 Subaru .... if I go 55 mph. Faster than that and my gas consumption goes up pretty quick. I do have a taller 3rd and 4th gears and 29" tires so 55 mph is about 2600 rpm off the top of my head. On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 3:38 AM, erik h <erikhoeflinger@...> wrote: Have been driving my syncro subaru conversion for about a year now thanks to the many helpful people on this forum:). Thing is I believe my mpg is pretty poor especially after reading up about some of the numbers people are pulling with their 2wd vanagons. My 1992 ej22 syncro conversion is getting 16.8mpg on average. Hasn't really been an issue until I decided to do some long distance trips and found myself searching for a pump more often than I'd like. My syncro does have 30x9.5x15 A/T tires and low gear ratio of 6.17 which means I'm turning around 3800rpm at 60mph or 4300rpm at 70mph. Could the gearing be a contributing factor to my poor economy and what kind of fuel economy are others getting in their syncro campers? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: will adding a cat reduce the gas smell?
Eddie- Is your check engine light hooked up? If so, is it on? Are you getting any codes from code readers?
Don- I understand the principles and possibilities behind what you stated but I am curious if you are aware of any exhaust valves actually being fried either by direct experience or firsthand knowledge?
For the record, you can get a really nice high performance Catalytic Converter for less than $100 at PepBoys.
Thanks, Neil
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Re: ej22 syncro camper fuel economy
yea at 70 mph I'm lucky to get 16 mpg more like 15 mpg (30" tires,6.17 r&p , stock gears , 87 syncro westy 2.5 suby ) 23 mpg @ 45 mph , 21 mpg @ 55mph ,17 mpg @ 65 mph
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--- In subaruvanagon@..., Luke Bakken <luke@...> wrote:
16.8 mpg at what speed?
I get 21 mpg in my syncro westy, 2.5L '03 Subaru .... if I go 55 mph.
Faster than that and my gas consumption goes up pretty quick.
I do have a taller 3rd and 4th gears and 29" tires so 55 mph is about
2600 rpm off the top of my head.
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 3:38 AM, erik h <erikhoeflinger@...> wrote:
Have been driving my syncro subaru conversion for about a year now thanks to the many helpful people on this forum:). Thing is I believe my mpg is pretty poor especially after reading up about some of the numbers people are pulling with their 2wd vanagons. My 1992 ej22 syncro conversion is getting 16.8mpg on average. Hasn't really been an issue until I decided to do some long distance trips and found myself searching for a pump more often than I'd like.
My syncro does have 30x9.5x15 A/T tires and low gear ratio of 6.17 which means I'm turning around 3800rpm at 60mph or 4300rpm at 70mph. Could the gearing be a contributing factor to my poor economy and what kind of fuel economy are others getting in their syncro campers?
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Re: speed sensor problem 84 westi 2.5 sub and small car conversion
I recently (about 300 miles ago) installed a "constant-pulse speed sensor" from enginewiring.com. Cost about $40 and has much improved the operation of my OBD1 EJ22. The dude on the phone was helpful explaining how it works. 3-wire solid-state sensor sends signal which mimicks 15 MPH to the ECU. This eliminated my stalling, stuttering, and CEL issues.
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--- In subaruvanagon@..., "henrydanziger" <phishteeth1@...> wrote:
intermittant speed sensor failure resulting in limp home mode. car bucks when you hit 3500 rpm. checked all wiring changed electrical pick up. need advise for changing to tach output for signal to computor or any alternive fix. thinking of runing new positive lead to sensor in case fault lies there. car will return to runing normal in a few miles after limp home mode. thanks for any suggestion. subaru dealer ran code right after it happens when car was stil runing and got speed sensor code.
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SubaruVanagon Check Engine Light & VSS Method
Folks: I've attached a file describing Leon's method of wiring up a check
engine light and a variation on vss installation on converted vans.
Contents of the file are also inline below.
This information has been thoughtfully provided by Leon Korkin.
The file can be found in the subaruvanagon Files section. Files > Wiring >
MethodOfInstallingVSSAndUsingO2LightForMIL.txt<>
Thanks,
Brent
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Leon Korkin
Date: Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [subaruvanagon] Re: 91 Vanagon SVX Check Engine Light
To: Brent Weide
Hi Brent,
I thought it may be helpful to group, you may consider including it into
your files or not
For the last 8 years i have been using different approach in my conversions
and my own Vanagons
I remove yellow wire with terminal from pos. 12 and insert it into position
14 to be used for CEL
Cut Blu/green wire leaving 4" long pigtail that was in pos. 14 and insert
it into pos. 12 to be used
for VSS signal. Remove speedometer and remove DOPS board and discard board.
On the very late Vanagons OXS light is missing as well as resistor on flex
circuit.
I add original LED and solder(very carefuly after cleaning copper "pads")
470 ohm resistor to
complete circuit. I also add another resistor missing on flex circuit to
complete VSS circuit.
have been using what some people call "Dan VSS" which is just 3 wire VSS
from 90s Golf/Jetta.
I don't wire it like Dan does.After soldering 3 pigtails to VSS, wires get
soldered to connector used for DOPS
Cleaning crimps very well with sharp knife then soldering to 3 terminals
for ground, 12V and signal.
This makes VSS "built in" eliminating need for extra connector
On very late Vanagons there is grey/blu (if i recall it right) wire that VW
intended to be used for VSS but never did.
It can be used for VSS and spliced with pigtail in pos.12. There is single
plastic connector that is hiding under instrument cluster
and at the other end inside plastic connections box. On earlier Vanagons
missing this wire new wire needs to be installed and
spliced with pigtail in pos. 12.
This arrangement has been working very well. I don't trust any other VSS,
specially those with magnets, it's just too unreliable.
Single VSS has been working for both ECU and Cruise Control in my Syncro.
Hope it helps
Leon
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On 3/26/2012 7:38 AM, Brent Weide wrote:
This might be helpful in describing a method of using your old vanagon
hi-pressure
oil sensor wire to power your ecu lite.....
There's a pdf diagram and text file with instructions therein.
Hope it helps.
--
Brent Weide
Portland, Oregon
www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/
--
Brent Weide
Portland, Oregon
www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: ej22 syncro camper fuel economy
16.8 mpg at what speed?
I get 21 mpg in my syncro westy, 2.5L '03 Subaru .... if I go 55 mph.
Faster than that and my gas consumption goes up pretty quick.
I do have a taller 3rd and 4th gears and 29" tires so 55 mph is about
2600 rpm off the top of my head.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 3:38 AM, erik h <erikhoeflinger@...> wrote: Have been driving my syncro subaru conversion for about a year now thanks to the many helpful people on this forum:). Thing is I believe my mpg is pretty poor especially after reading up about some of the numbers people are pulling with their 2wd vanagons. My 1992 ej22 syncro conversion is getting 16.8mpg on average. Hasn't really been an issue until I decided to do some long distance trips and found myself searching for a pump more often than I'd like.
My syncro does have 30x9.5x15 A/T tires and low gear ratio of 6.17 which means I'm turning around 3800rpm at 60mph or 4300rpm at 70mph. Could the gearing be a contributing factor to my poor economy and what kind of fuel economy are others getting in their syncro campers?
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Re: 91 Vanagon SVX Check Engine Light
This might be helpful in describing a method of using your old vanagon
hi-pressure
oil sensor wire to power your ecu lite.....
There's a pdf diagram and text file with instructions therein.
Hope it helps.
--
Brent Weide
Portland, Oregon
www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/
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Re: 91 Vanagon SVX Check Engine Light
I am not very familiar with the SVX, but I can tell you my approach putting an EJ22 into my '91.
The ECU turns the CEL on by supplying a ground. This means that the LED will be connected to +12v (thru a resistor)all the time. To make the connection to the ECU I used the wire that had been part of the high speed oil pressure warning system on the WBX. I avoided the big connector by cutting that wire nearby and using an insulated spade connector to connect to the wire that I added leading to the LED. I found +12v somewhere on the instrument cluster and used a resistor of about 800 ohms if I recall correctly, bringing that supply to the yellow LED that I glued into the unused OX position. I used a sharp probe to scratch thru the black coating nearby, inscribing the letters: ENG so it would be illuminated like the other symbols nearby.
Good luck. Remember that polarity matters on an LED.
Larry A.
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--- In subaruvanagon@..., "Christopher" <cashinhurst@...> wrote:
I was wondering about installing an LED in the position where an OXS light used to go in pre 87 Vans for the Check Engine Light for my 91 Van with SVX motor. I followed the track back and it dead ends. Looks like a diode/resistor/something is missing to make the connection for the ground signal to get to the light from the 14 pin connector. Can anyone help?
Thanks
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ej22 syncro camper fuel economy
Have been driving my syncro subaru conversion for about a year now thanks to the many helpful people on this forum:). Thing is I believe my mpg is pretty poor especially after reading up about some of the numbers people are pulling with their 2wd vanagons. My 1992 ej22 syncro conversion is getting 16.8mpg on average. Hasn't really been an issue until I decided to do some long distance trips and found myself searching for a pump more often than I'd like.
My syncro does have 30x9.5x15 A/T tires and low gear ratio of 6.17 which means I'm turning around 3800rpm at 60mph or 4300rpm at 70mph. Could the gearing be a contributing factor to my poor economy and what kind of fuel economy are others getting in their syncro campers?
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Re: will adding a cat reduce the gas smell?
Eddie...your running no Cat' in an OBDII engine management system?
The OBDII with Cat' requires a primary and secondary O2 sensor to monitor combustion efficiency..
If the secondary O2 was after the Cat' in the Subaru car, which it should have been, it is now looking at unconditioned exhaust gases.
Being that the Cat' is supposed to condition the exhaust gases, the 2nd O2 is now sensing gases that are high in unburnt hydrocarbons most of the time and will report this back to the ECU for fueling adjustment..
This is why you are smelling the exhaust fumes, as the engine is running very lean. This will also contribute to high Nox. The ECU strategy is to turn on the 'Check Engine' or 'MIL' and run in Limp Mode fueling....which is somewhere around 14.1 ratio. No wonder your Sync' is getting over 20mpg.
Adding a Cat' in the correct position in the exhaust will allow the ECU to run the engine at richer mixtures but at the expense of MPG...the numbers will fall.
The second or B2 O2 signal will then be within parameters the ECU is looking for and you will get a little more power, but most importantly reduce the possibility of the exhaust valve seats from burning out....supposing they are not too badly eroded now.
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91 Vanagon SVX Check Engine Light
I was wondering about installing an LED in the position where an OXS light used to go in pre 87 Vans for the Check Engine Light for my 91 Van with SVX motor. I followed the track back and it dead ends. Looks like a diode/resistor/something is missing to make the connection for the ground signal to get to the light from the 14 pin connector. Can anyone help?
Thanks
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will adding a cat reduce the gas smell?
I've been running my '97 EJ22 from an Impreza (single port) without a
cat since I did the conversion. it has two O2 sensors installed.
The van always has a gassy smell from the exhaust, like its running rich.
Will adding a cat eliminate that smell?
I've never had any codes to the effect of running rich. Is there a
chance that something isn't right in the fuel mixture? I get 20-22mpg
in a syncro westy, power is good and it runs super smooth.
thanks
Eddie
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Re: speed sensor problem 84 westi 2.5 sub and small car conversion
I've been using Dan Fleming's VSS with no problems whatsoever for just under 20,000 miles. Easy installation if you follow Dan's instructions. Good luck! On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 5:50 PM, henrydanziger <phishteeth1@...> wrote:
intermittant speed sensor failure resulting in limp home mode. car bucks
when you hit 3500 rpm. checked all wiring changed electrical pick up. need
advise for changing to tach output for signal to computor or any alternive
fix. thinking of runing new positive lead to sensor in case fault lies
there. car will return to runing normal in a few miles after limp home
mode. thanks for any suggestion. subaru dealer ran code right after it
happens when car was stil runing and got speed sensor code.
-- Jake ------------------------------------------ Crescent Beach, BC ----------------------------------------------------- 1984 GL 1.9 WBX 1986 Westy Weekender/2000 2.5 SOHC with 5 speed transaxle & PosiTrac Differential [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Brent Weide