Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problem (Pt 3)
I believe the ECU is grounded through the main engine ground to the intake manifold so you could check that.There are documented problems with poor ground connection there. The ECU supplies a ground path for ignition power to the FP relay, thereby enabling battery power to the fuel pump. Faulty ignition power? You really need a 12v test light and multimeter to be diagnosing this. With the two green test connectors connected and key turned to ON, the relays should be clicking and fuel pump cycling. The fuel pressure would cycle between 40 and 45 psi with no decay below 40 with a good regulator on my 02 2.5L. There are other tests to diagnose fuel pressure problems as well. The CELs you are getting is a concern. Maybe your ECU is going tits up or it's a ground to the ECU issue.
Edit: What CEL codes are you getting? If you don't know how to check look for YouTube videos on how to.
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Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
After having done a conversion a couple of years ago and spend a lot of hours trying to trouble shoot "weird" startup problems it turned out that to be a poor ground connection between the battery ground terminal and the engine block and ultimately the ECU. The way to test this it to use a #12 wire with a clip on one end and a probe on the other and run it directly from the ground post on the battery to the ground pin in the harness. then try and start. if it works it is likely a ground connection problem.
On Friday, February 28, 2025 at 06:36:40 AM PST, jsnrudolph via groups.io <jason_rudolph@...> wrote:
Hi, Mike.
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Sounds like a frustrating issue.? Have you double checked your ignition switch to rule it out?? They are prone to intermittent failures.? Search The Samba if you need help testing that or here's a link:
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=299865
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Best,
Jason
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EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problem (Pt 3)
I gathered some more information this afternoon; I'm learning this start?sequence is a bit complex....
- Fuel Pressure test Gauge tee-d in after the filter Turning the key to 'Run' IF the CEL?cycles (as I described?before) then the fuel pump doesn't come on until the CEL?becomes constant (this happens unpredictably, sometimes immediately, sometimes after a few s, sometimes it seems to just keep on cycling) - Once CEL is constant, then the fuel pump turns?on for 2-3 s; pressure rises to ~32-34 psi (that seems about right?) - Then pump turns off and pressure decays back to < 10 psi pretty fast (in < 10 s) Going from 'Run' to 'Start' turns the fuel pump on again and the engine usually (but not always cleanly) fires up Fuel pressure remains at 32 - 43 psi when the engine is running (higher when revving?the engine); that seems correct.
The rapid decay of fuel pressure once the pump turns off seems wrong; I would have expected it to stay high for 30 - 60s at least (that's what I'm used to on my L-Jetronic TR7s). If this indicates a leak, then I would think the only possible causes could be the pressure regulator or injectors - anything else?
Jason suggested the ignition switch may be at fault; that may be possible?so I'll?try that but I can't get any different result by any kind of pressure/wiggling of the key/switch Thanks for reading my long missives and for all your ideas!
Fuel pressure regulator on order... Spare injectors dug out of my parts stash; they need rebuilding first...
THANKS Mike Hart Paso Robles, CA (650) 387-8957
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EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problem (addendum to 'Pt 2')
In my earlier long post I should have mentioned; - the two green OBD-1 test connectors at the ECU are definitely?NOT connected (I understand this test procedure to read codes and thanks to Brent and others that reminded me of this; I haven't touched the ECU and connectors for a while and the problem came up without me fiddling with anything there...) Thanks,
Mike Hart Paso Robles, CA (650) 387-8957
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EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problem (Pt 2)
Thanks for all the great suggestions on the start problem I have on my EJ22 I have investigated several items and am looking to?next?steps
Background: 1987 Westfalia w/ 1994 OBD-1 EJ22/25 Frankenmotor w/ starting issue; - Normally the engine starts right up (just a few seconds of cranking) - A few times now it has taken a long time?or wouldn't fire up at all - Still cranks perfectly?normally (high torque starter running fast) - Also, occasionally, when I turn the key to the 'Run' position and don't go straight to 'Start', the CEL flashes On and Off repeatedly plus I hear relays clicking in the back
Update: - changed the fuel pump relay and ignition relay - installed new fuel pump and post- pump filter (no pre-filter on this van) - main battery voltage ~12.2V (it's not new but I keep it on a NOCO maintainer); very heavy duty battery cables to the engine - still have basically the same problem: starts OK much of the time; sometimes takes several seconds of cranking; sometimes CEL and relays cycle ON and Off several times if I hold in 'Run' position before?going to?'Start'. If I wait for the CEL?to stop cycling, then the engine starts pretty much normally
Next Steps: I'm guessing the fuel pump is taking a few seconds to bring pressure up and that there is a fuel supply issue; hence: - I'll put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel hose to the engine - I'll order a new fuel pressure regulator?
Any other thoughts?
I believe?I have most of the diagnostic equipment and spare parts (fuel pressure gauge, spare Bosch pumps, filters etc.) as I have diagnosed many Triumph TR7s which use (virtually) the same L-Jetronic EFI system as the original Vanagon wasserboxer; though the Subaru EJ22 behaviour is a bit different it seems (a pulsing fuel pump at start is normal???)
Thanks again for all your advice
Mike Hart Paso Robles, CA (650) 387-8957
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Warren’s Conversion - Difficulty Removing Wiring Harness
Friends,
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I have had considerable difficult removing my wiring harness. ?I cut out a portion of my rear Westy seat box but still couldn’t get the connector through the hole, so I snipped it off and pulled the wiring into the engine bay. ?I posted the following on the samba so I thought I would post it here as well as I try to get some guidance on removing the harness. ?One kind samba member has responded so far and provided a photo (many thanks 4Gears4Tires!!). ?
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“Okay guys. I’m not sure how to pull the Vanagon wiring harness, i.e., what to take out and what to leave behind. I removed the ECU and pulled the main harness back into the engine bay and started to try to figure out what was what.
There is apparently a main harness and an engine management harness. I should remove the engine management harness but I don’t know the difference. I asked for help from Jeff at AVSubaruconversions, who did my wiring harness, and indicated that I am a visual person and asked if he had any photos. He said “I don’t have any photos. To do a swap you need to be familiar with both platforms” and eventually told me “you need to know what you’re dealing with and looking at to do a swap. At this point you would have to research or pay somebody that knows how to do a swap if you don’t want to research.”
The mechanicals are easy for me. The electrics are not.
So I’m doing research as Jeff suggested and asking for help! What to take out and what to leave behind? When I received my harness Jeff included some notes and a screenshot of Smallcar’s diagram to connect to the black box. So I feel confident that when I get to that point I will be able to install the modified harness. But I need to get to that point.
Any help, photos, diagrams, etc. will be appreciated. Thanks in advance!”
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Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
Hi, Mike.
?
Sounds like a frustrating issue.? Have you double checked your ignition switch to rule it out?? They are prone to intermittent failures.? Search The Samba if you need help testing that or here's a link:
?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=299865
?
Best,
Jason
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Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
Mike,
A few easy ideas:
1) Put a volt meter across your battery and see what the voltage is when cranking. I’m not sure what the minimum voltage would be here but seems like a logical first step.
2) If you have a simple way to put a fuel presssure gauge on your fuel system somewhere - check to see if you’re pressure is low. Also be sure the pump is cycling to pre-charge the fuel system when you turn the key to the on position.
3) Did you make any changes before you noticed the issues that may be a factor?
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Good luck!
-Kevin
Hollister,CA
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Re: Warren’s Conversion - Removing VW Wiring Harness
The blue connector splices the original dark brown ground wire to the added light brown wire. If I can get a wrench back there unbolt it. If not. Snip snip. Yes. We can get together sometime to talk Vanagon stuff.?
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On Feb 27, 2025, at 8:35?AM, ANDREW via groups.io <andrewvanis@...> wrote:
? Why not unbolt that instead and prevent a cut wire??
What does the blue connector splice to??
If ever helpful, I'm in Albuquerque and spend allot of time in Santa Fe.... Always nice to meet another Vanagon owner so get in touch if you'd like to do that.
Andy Vanis?
505-304-5306 USA and WhatsApp So I found that the light brown wire terminates on a screw just behind the water tank.? Must be an extra ground for some reason.? I’m going to snip it off and call it good and get on with removing the harness.
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Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
-- Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: Warren’s Conversion - Removing VW Wiring Harness
Why not unbolt that instead and prevent a cut wire??
What does the blue connector splice to??
If ever helpful, I'm in Albuquerque and spend allot of time in Santa Fe.... Always nice to meet another Vanagon owner so get in touch if you'd like to do that.
Andy Vanis?
505-304-5306 USA and WhatsApp
So I found that the light brown wire terminates on a screw just behind the water tank.? Must be an extra ground for some reason.? I’m going to snip it off and call it good and get on with removing the harness.
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Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: Warren’s Conversion - Removing VW Wiring Harness
Santa Fe
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Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: Warren’s Conversion - Removing VW Wiring Harness
So I found that the light brown wire terminates on a screw just behind the water tank. ?Must be an extra ground for some reason. ?I’m going to snip it off and call it good and get on with removing the harness.
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Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: Warren’s Conversion - Removing VW Wiring Harness
Looks like an extra ground.??
What's the other side contacted to?
Is the blue tap/black wire just a ground??
Where in NM are you?
Andy Vanis?
505-304-5306 USA and WhatsApp
Wiring harness question.? I started to pull the wiring harness and removed the ECU.? I found that the original dark brown wire has been cut and spliced into a light brown wire that runs behind in the area of the water tank.? The original dark brown wire that runs back through the firewall is not directly connected to the large connector that goes to the ECU.? I’m planning on cutting the light brown wire, otherwise I can’t remove the hardness.? Any thoughts? ?
?
Thanks
--
Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: Warren’s Conversion - Removing VW Wiring Harness
--
Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: Warren’s Conversion - Removing VW Wiring Harness
Wiring harness question. ?I started to pull the wiring harness and removed the ECU. ?I found that the original dark brown wire has been cut and spliced into a light brown wire that runs behind in the area of the water tank. ?The original dark brown wire that runs back through the firewall is not directly connected to the large connector that goes to the ECU. ?I’m planning on cutting the light brown wire, otherwise I can’t remove the hardness. ?Any thoughts? ?
?
Thanks
--
Warren
89 Westy?
88 Tintop
70 Westy
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Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
Good morning Mike. Sorry to hear about the issues you’re having with your conversion. I can’t speak to the starting problem but I will speak to my suspicions around your relay clicking. When your ecu test/memory connectors are connected you would experience the Subaru engine/ecu going through a “test cycle” repeatedly. ?When living in the donor vehicle you would hear the radiator cooling fan turn on and off, your relays would click, and other systems would be tested for diagnostic purposes. Check the 2 little plugs to be sure they are not connected. ?In fact, neither the green plugs (test) or the black plugs (memory) ?should be connected for normal running.
Here are the obd1 pin outs at the ecu….
| B56.12 | Read memory connector | | B56.13 | Test mode connector |
Here’s what the connectors look like while still in the donor Subaru vehicle. ?Your connectors location varies, but would usually be close to your ECU.
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Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
The relays you are talking about would be ignition and fuel pump. The fuel pump relay (green?) should cycle once each time? the key is turned to ON.?
Edit: If constant clicking of the relays with key ON, your green test connectors may be connected. Not for normal running and could result in odd CELs.
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Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
Fuel pressure? Cycle the key on and off several times then try to start. Maybe need new FP regulator?
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Re: EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
fuel pump should kick in .
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My 1987 Westfalia has a 1994 OBD-1 EJ22/25 Frankenmotor
(50k+ on the conversion done by 523Rods)
I have a strange starting issue;
- Normally the engine starts right up (just a few seconds of cranking)
- A few times now it either takes a long time?or won't fire up at all
- Still cranks perfectly?normally (high torque starter running fast)
- Also, occasionally?(and it seems related), when I turn the key to the 'Run' position and don't go straight to 'Start', the CEL flashes On and Off repeatedly plus I hear relays clicking in the back
- there are two relays (starter and Ignition) next to the ECU under the seat and one or both seem to be the ones doing this
Ideas?
Thanks,
Mike Hart
Paso Robles, CA
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EJ22 OBD-1: Strange Start Problems
My 1987 Westfalia has a 1994 OBD-1 EJ22/25 Frankenmotor (50k+ on the conversion done by 523Rods) I have a strange starting issue; - Normally the engine starts right up (just a few seconds of cranking) - A few times now it either takes a long time?or won't fire up at all - Still cranks perfectly?normally (high torque starter running fast) - Also, occasionally?(and it seems related), when I turn the key to the 'Run' position and don't go straight to 'Start', the CEL flashes On and Off repeatedly plus I hear relays clicking in the back - there are two relays (starter and Ignition) next to the ECU under the seat and one or both seem to be the ones doing this
Ideas?
Thanks, Mike Hart Paso Robles, CA
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Kevin Jakey
Brent Weide
Dr Mark