Re: ER40 Collet Chuck alternative thought.
Like Rick, I am also a rank amateur, but without even the benefit of a shop class.? As he said, Make One! You’ll be mighty proud. ?
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On Feb 14, 2023, at 10:53 AM, Rick < vwrick@...> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:13 AM, Jack Dinan wrote:
Here’s another pathway, suggested by many others as well.
Ten years ago, I had no idea how to cut a metric thread on my SB9A.
The internet and a single article in HSM magazine convinced me that I could.
I learned and fabricated the ER-40 adapter with the M50 x 1.5 thread required for the clamping nut.
It remains the most difficult and most satisfying job I’ve done.
Consider taking the plunge.
This is what I did. ?In the end it wasn’t really difficult, just take your time cutting the threads. Those metric thread are very fine. I made the first one for my SB9A, I made a second one when I got my SB13. I also made some ER40 collet blocks while I had the taper attachment adjusted correctly.
BTW, I am a rank amateur with no training besides high school metal shop 40 years ago. You can do it!
<71A9A68C-2513-4AB5-8F38-030359CFD07C.jpeg>
?
On Feb 14, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Andrei < calciu1@...> wrote:
Why don't you get this, instead??
?
|
|
High Quality 5" 5C Collet Chuck Closer Lathe Plain Back Use 5C Collet.i have adapter plates for 75 to 100 each<br>
|
?
All you need to do is fit a backing plate to it. No threading.?
?
Hi,
?
WRT collet chucks for the lathe.? I've been planning to make the attached adapter for a while to suit my single tumbler heavy 10.? What is stopping me is my inability to cut metric threads so I can use commercially available collet nuts and/or a lack of faith that I can make a collet nut. The design is based off of a 5C collet adapter. (?) This is the variation where I trust the taper to secure the adapter in the spindle similar to a 5C collet adapter.? Alternatively, I could use the 5C collet closer to secure the adapter in the spindle, the threading for that is not shown. I figured that I'd machine the external taper between centers and then insert the adapter into the spindle and machine the internal taper, bore and thread for collet nut.
?
Note that the taper is wrong for the heavy 10 spindle per tooling chart, need to adjust before I make.
?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
?
Erik S.
|
Re: ER40 Collet Chuck alternative thought.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:13 AM, Jack Dinan wrote:
Here’s another pathway, suggested by many others as well.
Ten years ago, I had no idea how to cut a metric thread on my SB9A.
The internet and a single article in HSM magazine convinced me that I could.
I learned and fabricated the ER-40 adapter with the M50 x 1.5 thread required for the clamping nut.
It remains the most difficult and most satisfying job I’ve done.
Consider taking the plunge.
This is what I did. ?In the end it wasn’t really difficult, just take your time cutting the threads. Those metric thread are very fine. I made the first one for my SB9A, I made a second one when I got my SB13. I also made some ER40 collet blocks while I had the taper attachment adjusted correctly.
BTW, I am a rank amateur with no training besides high school metal shop 40 years ago. You can do it!
?
On Feb 14, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Andrei < calciu1@...> wrote:
Why don't you get this, instead??
?
|
|
High Quality 5" 5C Collet Chuck Closer Lathe Plain Back Use 5C Collet.i have adapter plates for 75 to 100 each<br>
|
?
All you need to do is fit a backing plate to it. No threading.?
?
Hi,
?
WRT collet chucks for the lathe.? I've been planning to make the attached adapter for a while to suit my single tumbler heavy 10.? What is stopping me is my inability to cut metric threads so I can use commercially available collet nuts and/or a lack of faith that I can make a collet nut. The design is based off of a 5C collet adapter. (?) This is the variation where I trust the taper to secure the adapter in the spindle similar to a 5C collet adapter.? Alternatively, I could use the 5C collet closer to secure the adapter in the spindle, the threading for that is not shown. I figured that I'd machine the external taper between centers and then insert the adapter into the spindle and machine the internal taper, bore and thread for collet nut.
?
Note that the taper is wrong for the heavy 10 spindle per tooling chart, need to adjust before I make.
?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
?
Erik S.
|
Re: ER40 Collet Chuck alternative thought.
Here’s another pathway, suggested by many others as well. Ten years ago, I had no idea how to cut a metric thread on my SB9A. The internet and a single article in HSM magazine convinced me that I could. I learned and fabricated the ER-40 adapter with the M50 x 1.5 thread required for the clamping nut. It remains the most difficult and most satisfying job I’ve done. Consider taking the plunge.
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On Feb 14, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Andrei < calciu1@...> wrote:
Why don't you get this, instead??
| High Quality 5" 5C Collet Chuck Closer Lathe Plain Back Use 5C Collet.i have adapter plates for 75 to 100 each<br> |
All you need to do is fit a backing plate to it. No threading.?
Hi,
WRT collet chucks for the lathe.? I've been planning to make the attached adapter for a while to suit my single tumbler heavy 10.? What is stopping me is my inability to cut metric threads so I can use commercially available collet nuts and/or a lack of faith that I can make a collet nut. The design is based off of a 5C collet adapter. (?) This is the variation where I trust the taper to secure the adapter in the spindle similar to a 5C collet adapter.? Alternatively, I could use the 5C collet closer to secure the adapter in the spindle, the threading for that is not shown. I figured that I'd machine the external taper between centers and then insert the adapter into the spindle and machine the internal taper, bore and thread for collet nut.
Note that the taper is wrong for the heavy 10 spindle per tooling chart, need to adjust before I make.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Erik S.
|
Re: ER40 Collet Chuck alternative thought.
Why don't you get this, instead??
|
|
High Quality 5" 5C Collet Chuck Closer Lathe Plain Back Use 5C Collet.i have adapter plates for 75 to 100 each<br>
www.ebay.com
|
All you need to do is fit a backing plate to it. No threading.?
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Show quoted text
Hi,
WRT collet chucks for the lathe.? I've been planning to make the attached adapter for a while to suit my single tumbler heavy 10.? What is stopping me is my inability to cut metric threads so I can use commercially available collet nuts
and/or a lack of faith that I can make a collet nut. The design is based off of a 5C collet adapter. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/185766045549?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=g2V2IIY7Qu2&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=67pz0IenSSi&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
) This is the variation where I trust the taper to secure the adapter in the spindle similar to a 5C collet adapter.? Alternatively, I could use the 5C collet closer to secure the adapter in the spindle, the threading for that is not shown. I figured that
I'd machine the external taper between centers and then insert the adapter into the spindle and machine the internal taper, bore and thread for collet nut.
Note that the taper is wrong for the heavy 10 spindle per tooling chart, need to adjust before I make.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Erik S.
|
ER40 Collet Chuck alternative thought.
Hi,
WRT collet chucks for the lathe.? I've been planning to make the attached adapter for a while to suit my single tumbler heavy 10.? What is stopping me is my inability to cut metric threads so I can use commercially available collet nuts and/or a lack of faith that I can make a collet nut. The design is based off of a 5C collet adapter. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/185766045549?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=g2V2IIY7Qu2&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=67pz0IenSSi&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY ) This is the variation where I trust the taper to secure the adapter in the spindle similar to a 5C collet adapter.? Alternatively, I could use the 5C collet closer to secure the adapter in the spindle, the threading for that is not shown. I figured that I'd machine the external taper between centers and then insert the adapter into the spindle and machine the internal taper, bore and thread for collet nut.
Note that the taper is wrong for the heavy 10 spindle per tooling chart, need to adjust before I make.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Erik S.
|
Re: Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
??? ??? You could make that one a tru-adjust with a few tapped
holes .
??? ??? animal
On 2/13/2023 2:55 PM, Rick Swineford
wrote:
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I found this on ebay: ?
?
Comes with a backplate that can bored out
to my 2-1/4”.? It’s not the fine adjustable, but would save a
lot of work.
Rick
?
See
if this works for your lathe. There are collet chucks with
all sorts of lathe attachment options.?
Looking for options to add collets to my
very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on
using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering
what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37??
Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse,
then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close
as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the
newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the
ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.?
Shop class 55 years ago.?
_._,_._,_
|
Re: Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
I found this on ebay: ? ? Comes with a backplate that can bored out to my 2-1/4”.? It’s not the fine adjustable, but would save a lot of work. Rick
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Andrei Sent: Monday, February 13, 2023 12:15 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? See if this works for your lathe. There are collet chucks with all sorts of lathe attachment options.?
Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
Re: Lathe headstock collet adapter
On Mon, 13 Feb 2023, mike allen wrote: ??? ??? I can't answer your thread question , but there should be one
of those threaded spindle protectors that goes on before you slip the
collet adapter in . It's so you can remove the adapter without having to
use a punch though the spindle?? to remove it & risk damaging the collet
threads .
??? If you have one that fits your lathe please disregard this message . No I don't. I was planning on making one out of some HDPE I have on hand. I'll have to go out and check my collet adapter this afternoon. I don't remember there being any clearance between the spindle nose and the 'lip' of the collet adapter. That would be required in order for the thread protedtor to also serve as an extractor tool. That's a great idea, though. I'll re-think my design for a thread protector accordingly. The piece mentioned in my first post appears to be unitary. I'll examine it more closely to see if maybe it's really two parts badly wedged together... -- Rick Green
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Re: Lathe headstock collet adapter
I can't answer your thread question , but there should be one
of those threaded spindle protectors that goes on before you slip the
collet adapter in . It's so you can remove the adapter without having to
use a punch though the spindle?? to remove it & risk damaging the collet
threads .
??? If you have one that fits your lathe please disregard this message .
??? ??? animal
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On 2/13/2023 10:23 AM, Richard Green wrote: In the boxes of tooling that came with the heavy 10L I adopted last
summer, there is a number of 5C collets, a hollow drawbar, and not
one, but two adapters for the spindle end.
One of them is a simple one, with external taper to match the spindle,
and internal taper to fit the 5C series.? With the supplied drawbar,
I'm quite pleased with the workholding options it opens up for me.
? The other adapter, however does not fit my lathe.? The internal
taper does appear to be 5C, but I cannot measure the external taper
easily.? Instead of the simple flange on the front of the 'good'
adapter, this one has what appears to be an internally threaded cup,
as if it has a built-in spindle thread protector. The only problem is
that the threads don't fit my spindle.
So this begs the real question to this group:? Which SB lathe would
have a spindle with a 2-1/4", 12TPI threaded nose?
|
Lathe headstock collet adapter
In the boxes of tooling that came with the heavy 10L I adopted last summer, there is a number of 5C collets, a hollow drawbar, and not one, but two adapters for the spindle end.
One of them is a simple one, with external taper to match the spindle, and internal taper to fit the 5C series. With the supplied drawbar, I'm quite pleased with the workholding options it opens up for me.
The other adapter, however does not fit my lathe. The internal taper does appear to be 5C, but I cannot measure the external taper easily. Instead of the simple flange on the front of the 'good' adapter, this one has what appears to be an internally threaded cup, as if it has a built-in spindle thread protector. The only problem is that the threads don't fit my spindle.
So this begs the real question to this group: Which SB lathe would have a spindle with a 2-1/4", 12TPI threaded nose?
--
Rick Green
|
Re: OT maybe, but ebay dividing heads?
??? ??? I made a mistake , my apologies .
??? ??? animal
On 2/12/2023 7:37 PM, wlw19958 wrote:
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Hi There,?
I think we're having a communication problem.? In an earlier post,
you said:?
" You could use all sorts of MT3 devices in these
tailstock ..."?
I was just pointing out that the tailstock
doesn't have a socket to accept
a Morse taper tool.? The tailstock for these indexing heads has a
cylindrical
quill with a 60° point on one end used to engage a tool or a part
that has a
corresponding female 60° center.? The tailstock has a limited
range it can
be adjusted for height and angle.?
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
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Re: Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
See if this works for your lathe. There are collet chucks with all sorts of lathe attachment options.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary??
If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
Re: Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
If you plan on making or adapting a collet chuck, it does not matter what is your taper because the collet chucks thread on the spindle nose.?
Using the chucks with the Morse taper will extend far out in front of the spindle and introduce their own additional runout.
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I can't speak for the 37, but my 1922 34 is morse 4 in the headstock (1"
ID bore) and morse 3 in the tailstock.? I.e. not SB proprietary.
|
Re: OT maybe, but ebay dividing heads?
+1 on the chinese BS0 dividing head. And it is vastly lighter than my BS1 LW Chuck dividing head.?
If anyone is interested in a BS1, let me know. It is too big for my current milling machine and just sits there, doing nothing.? It is very heavy for UPS, USPS, or FedEx ground to ship, so it will have to come to you via freight. I can get you a shipping price
once I know your address, or I can use your commercial account.?
Andrei
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I have the BS-0 and it is very nice for the money. I don't recall if it is in the description, but in addition to the mt3, the nose of the spindle is 1-1/2x8 so all my SB 9A chucks fit on it. I purchased mine direct from vevor.com as it was less money at
the time however it seems to be less on Ebay at the moment.
On 2/12/23 17:10, Nick Andrews wrote:
Anyone use one of these??
The same seller reduced price for the 5" to $203 shipped but I think if I were to get one the 6" has quite a bit more height and swing, and has a MT3 center vs the MT2 of the 5".? I already have an 8" Yuasa H-V rotary table but I like the tilting
aspect and tailstock these have in addition to the dividing plates.? Anyone have one??
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Re: Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
You're right!? My brain must not have been braining!
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 04:03:21?AM CST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:
Bill, that looks to me like a mic for measuring minor, not major diameters. An ordinary flat anvil jobbie does the major.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill in OKC too via groups.io" <wmrmeyers@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, 12 Feb, 23 At 19:03
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
This would get you the correct major diameter, and any decent ruler would let you count the number of threads per inch. Standard 1/8" rule, the top of the threads would align with the 8th inch graduations. If you don't get that alignment, and it is 6tpi, you'd get about 11/64th between peak.
Sorry about the far too detailed and probably obvious explanation, but I've had to check some crazy threads on stuff I've worked on. The Japanese used some very odd threads on sewing machine hardware they made post-WWII, with odd fractional inch threads and metric lengths on the screws. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. SEMPER GUMBY!
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 12:42:51?PM CST, Rick Swineford <terrapinsystems@...> wrote:
I wish it was 2-1/4x8. Much more plentiful accessories. My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased. Beyond my expertise. He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it. I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! Steve I have the Grizzly serial number info. I have attached the file. The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6. I may have a nose insert. My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s He had it torn down and he repainted it. It was previously owned by a gunsmith. Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify. I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is. It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio. I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s. I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried. I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets. I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures. Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines. Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section. I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months. Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year. Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop. I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper. I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines. As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4. I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are. The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs. I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe. I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck. Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube. As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route. I am a beginner as to working with lathes. Shop class 55 years ago.
|
Re: Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
Bill, that looks to me like a mic for measuring minor, not major diameters. An ordinary flat anvil jobbie does the major.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill in OKC too via groups.io" <wmrmeyers@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, 12 Feb, 23 At 19:03
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
This would get you the correct major diameter, and any decent ruler would let you count the number of threads per inch. Standard 1/8" rule, the top of the threads would align with the 8th inch graduations. If you don't get that alignment, and it is 6tpi, you'd get about 11/64th between peak.
Sorry about the far too detailed and probably obvious explanation, but I've had to check some crazy threads on stuff I've worked on. The Japanese used some very odd threads on sewing machine hardware they made post-WWII, with odd fractional inch threads and metric lengths on the screws. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. SEMPER GUMBY!
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 12:42:51?PM CST, Rick Swineford <terrapinsystems@...> wrote:
I wish it was 2-1/4x8. Much more plentiful accessories. My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased. Beyond my expertise. He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it. I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! Steve I have the Grizzly serial number info. I have attached the file. The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6. I may have a nose insert. My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s He had it torn down and he repainted it. It was previously owned by a gunsmith. Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify. I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is. It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio. I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s. I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried. I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets. I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures. Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines. Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section. I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months. Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year. Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop. I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper. I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines. As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4. I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are. The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs. I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe. I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck. Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube. As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route. I am a beginner as to working with lathes. Shop class 55 years ago.
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Re: Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
Thank you Mike.? I have other thread gauges but had not found one that went that large of pitch.? It is ordered and on its way. Rick ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of mike allen Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 5:15 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? ??? ??? A thread pitch gage ? This one goes down to 4 TPI ??? ??? ??? ??? animal On 2/12/2023 10:42 AM, Rick Swineford wrote: I wish it was 2-1/4x8.? Much more plentiful accessories.? My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased.? Beyond my expertise.? He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it.? I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick ? ? It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! ? Steve ? ? I have the Grizzly serial number info.? I have attached the file. ?The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6.? I may have a nose insert.? My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s? He had it torn down and he repainted it.? It was previously owned by a gunsmith.? Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify.? I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is.? It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio.? I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s.? I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets.? I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures.? Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines.? Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section.? I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months.? Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year.? Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop.? I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick ? ? Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines.? As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are.? The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs.? I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
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Re: OT maybe, but ebay dividing heads?
Hi There,?
I think we're having a communication problem.? In an earlier post, you said:?
" You could use all sorts of MT3 devices in these tailstock ..."?
I was just pointing out that the tailstock doesn't have a socket to accept
a Morse taper tool.? The tailstock for these indexing heads has a cylindrical
quill with a 60° point on one end used to engage a tool or a part that has a
corresponding female 60° center.? The tailstock has a limited range it can
be adjusted for height and angle.?
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
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Re: OT maybe, but ebay dividing heads?
??? ??? Isn't the tailstock center round where it is clamped ?
I'm pretty sure the one I have is .
??? ??? animal
On 2/12/2023 6:02 PM, wlw19958 wrote:
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Hi There,
I have a couple of them and I think there is a misconception about
the tailstock.? The MT 3 is the taper in the headstock.? The
tailstocks
don't have a tapered socket.?
One I have has the 1-1/2" x 8tpi spindle.? The spindle revolves on
a tapered roller bearing of questionable quality.? It has
inconsistent?
runout and is frustrating when trying to dial in a part.? I bought
it from?
ENCO about 22 years ago so the current ones may be better.
The other one I have is an older one made in Japan.? I think it
was?
made in the 70's and It has a weird spindle thread and doesn't use
a roller bearing but it is more accurate.? It didn't come with its
tailstock but I can use the one from the Chinese set.?
Both have B&S #7 internal tapers in the spindles.? They are
copies of
an older Brown & Sharpe semi-universal indexing set and there
are
certain divisions that cannot be done with the indexing plates
included.
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
|
Re: OT maybe, but ebay dividing heads?
Hi There,
I have a couple of them and I think there is a misconception about
the tailstock.? The MT 3 is the taper in the headstock.? The tailstocks
don't have a tapered socket.?
One I have has the 1-1/2" x 8tpi spindle.? The spindle revolves on
a tapered roller bearing of questionable quality.? It has inconsistent?
runout and is frustrating when trying to dial in a part.? I bought it from?
ENCO about 22 years ago so the current ones may be better.
The other one I have is an older one made in Japan.? I think it was?
made in the 70's and It has a weird spindle thread and doesn't use
a roller bearing but it is more accurate.? It didn't come with its
tailstock but I can use the one from the Chinese set.?
Both have B&S #7 internal tapers in the spindles.? They are copies of
an older Brown & Sharpe semi-universal indexing set and there are
certain divisions that cannot be done with the indexing plates included.
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
|
Rick Swineford
Bill in OKC too
