I second the ilion book
animal
On 7/3/23 8:29 PM, John Burt wrote:
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Bill,
Those gears that mesh with the tumbler gears are not keyed to the
shaft. They are part of a progressive reduction as they go from
the input end of the gearbox to the center. That tumbler selects
where you are tapping into that reduction chain and then it
transfers that rotation via the tumbler gear shaft over to one of
the cone gears in the other half of the gearbox. If I remember
right, you have pairs of gears tied together -- a big one and a
little one -- to get a reduction and then motion is transferred
between these gear pairs back and forth from one shaft to the
other. The result is that as you get closer to the center of the
gearbox, the reduction causes the gears to be spinning slower at
each step. So E, F, G are the slowest (most reduced) positions.
I don't remember how the gear pairs are held together -- maybe
they're pinned. So if I got this right, then maybe there's either
a stripped gear that's ending the reduction chain, or possibly one
of the pairs' coupling (pin?) is broken, which could also end the
reduction chain.
You should be able to unplug your lathe, make sure your apron is
in neutral, engage the lead screw select lever to either forward
or reverse, turn your chuck by hand, and you can peek into the
bottom of the gearbox to see where the motion is stopping and
whether it's a stripped gear.
If you've never cleaned and re-felted your gearbox to assure that
everything is getting lubricated, this might be a good time to do
that. But it takes a lot of disassembly, possibly including
removal of the headstock. I recommend the Ilion book & felt
kit if you do this.
John
_._,_._,_
|
It’s on the Southbendheavy10 group, in the files section. In a subdirectory containing files from the old southbendheavy10files group.?
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On Jul 4, 2023, at 10:13 AM, Robert Bradley <rcbradley@...> wrote:
?Where can we find the first part of the Steve wells rebuild pdf?
--
Jim B
|
Bill, Are you sure about E,F & G not working or could it be just F & G? ?I think F & G share one compound gear and I can see losing those two ranges if their?compound gear has a problem. ?If you lost E as well, I’d think D wouldn’t be working also.
Thanks, George H. Meinschein, P.E.
Firearm and Ballistics Engineering LLC 150 Brittany Drive Freehold, NJ 07728 gmeinschein@... Cell#: 732-580-1736
Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 9:05 PM, bill tober via groups.io < iwirewrt@...> wrote: Hi group, Over the years now in then I need the use of my wide rangedouble tumber gear box for cutting screw threads. The problem is I do not have rotation to my lead screw in? E,F,G speeds only A -D speeds. Could it be a broken key in the 3large power gears? I read some where only the first 2 large gears are keyed.Need your thoughts Bill
--
-George M.
|
Where can we find the first part of the Steve wells rebuild pdf?
|
|
|
Bill,
Those gears that mesh with the tumbler gears are not keyed to the shaft. They are part of a progressive reduction as they go from the input end of the gearbox to the center. That tumbler selects where you are tapping into that reduction chain and then it transfers that rotation via the tumbler gear shaft over to one of the cone gears in the other half of the gearbox. If I remember right, you have pairs of gears tied together -- a big one and a little one -- to get a reduction and then motion is transferred between these gear pairs back and forth from one shaft to the other. The result is that as you get closer to the center of the gearbox, the reduction causes the gears to be spinning slower at each step. So E, F, G are the slowest (most reduced) positions.
I don't remember how the gear pairs are held together -- maybe they're pinned. So if I got this right, then maybe there's either a stripped gear that's ending the reduction chain, or possibly one of the pairs' coupling (pin?) is broken, which could also end the reduction chain.
You should be able to unplug your lathe, make sure your apron is in neutral, engage the lead screw select lever to either forward or reverse, turn your chuck by hand, and you can peek into the bottom of the gearbox to see where the motion is stopping and whether it's a stripped gear.
If you've never cleaned and re-felted your gearbox to assure that everything is getting lubricated, this might be a good time to do that. But it takes a lot of disassembly, possibly including removal of the headstock. I recommend the Ilion book & felt kit if you do this.
John
|
??? ??? You might also ask over? here
Lots of South Bend knowledge over there
animal
On 7/3/23 6:05 PM, bill tober via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi group,
Over the years now in then I
need the use of my wide rangedouble tumber gear box for
cutting screw threads. The problem is I do not have rotation
to my lead screw in?
E,F,G speeds only A -D
speeds. Could it be a broken key in the 3large power gears? I
read some where only the first 2 large gears are keyed.Need
your thoughts Bill
|
Hi group, Over the years now in then I need the use of my wide rangedouble tumber gear box for cutting screw threads. The problem is I do not have rotation to my lead screw in? E,F,G speeds only A -D speeds. Could it be a broken key in the 3large power gears? I read some where only the first 2 large gears are keyed.Need your thoughts Bill
|
Re: Adapted a 9” steady rest for my 10L
??? ??? Gotter done , nice job
animal
On 6/28/23 10:55 AM, tk_1971 via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Like others before me, I found it difficult to find a steady
rest for my Heavy 10.
I found this nicely made one for a 9” SB that has a 5” bore
size.
With 5” to work with and being made out of whatever steel that’s
NOT cast iron, I figure can be converted to work on my 10L.
No elaborate planning here… just measure, cut, weld, and mill as
needed.
Without any fiddling ( just dropping the 3 telescopic pieces
down), I can get +/- 0.001” with a 2ft long bar stock that I
plan on making into a drawbar for one of my mills.
Here are the pics.
 
|
Re: Adapted a 9” steady rest for my 10L
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Show quoted text
On Jun 28, 2023, at 11:51, tk_1971 via groups.io <tk_1971@...> wrote:
? Like others before me, I found it difficult to find a steady rest for my Heavy 10.
I found this nicely made one for a 9” SB that has a 5” bore size.
With 5” to work with and being made out of whatever steel that’s NOT cast iron, I figure can be converted to work on my 10L.
No elaborate planning here… just measure, cut, weld, and mill as needed.
Without any fiddling ( just dropping the 3 telescopic pieces down), I can get +/- 0.001” with a 2ft long bar stock that I plan on making into a drawbar for one of my mills.
Here are the pics.
<IMG_1305.jpeg> <IMG_1306.jpeg> <IMG_1304.jpeg> <IMG_1630.jpeg> <IMG_1629.jpeg> <IMG_1632.jpeg> <IMG_1634.jpeg>
|
Adapted a 9” steady rest for my 10L
|
Re: Cover for cross slide screw with TTA
And this time with pictures...
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Show quoted text
------ Original Message ------
From: "eddie.draper@... via groups.io" <eddie.draper@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Monday, 26 Jun, 23 At 20:24
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Cover for cross slide screw with TTA
Evening all,
Please find attached 3 photos of a cover I recently knocked up for the purpose of keeping swarf out of the cross slide screw on the railway's 14.5" x 6' toolroom SB. I have seen these illustrated on this group, and they look like a fancy piece of factory impressed metal. Mine is just a piece of spare sheet left over from another job, maybe 1mm thick. I folded a small flange on the edges to make it stiff. The anti rotation feature is just a standard socket head cap screw, 8mm in this case I think, grade unimportant, with just a light shave removed from both sides with a grinder, and this is shown in the photo with the cover removed & inverted. The pivot hole is not central (dimensions not provided - make it to suit your lathe). When it runs out of travel, just reverse it. I have proved that it covers the gap down which the bad stuff falls at all positions of the cross slide. The 2 ends are ever so slightly panned upwards in order to ride up over the joint where the slotted piece meets the cross slide proper. The inscription is simply because this is a common user lathe. By heck, how you have to watch 'em!
Cheers,
Eddie
|
Cover for cross slide screw with TTA
Evening all,
Please find attached 3 photos of a cover I recently knocked up for the purpose of keeping swarf out of the cross slide screw on the railway's 14.5" x 6' toolroom SB.? I have seen these illustrated on this group, and they look like a fancy piece of factory impressed metal.? Mine is just a piece of spare sheet left over from another job, maybe 1mm thick.? I folded a small flange on the edges to make it stiff.? The anti rotation feature is just a standard socket head cap screw, 8mm in this case I think, grade unimportant, with just a light shave removed from both sides with a grinder, and this is shown in the photo with the cover removed & inverted.? The pivot hole is not central (dimensions not provided - make it to suit your lathe).? When it runs out of travel, just reverse it.? I have proved that it covers the gap down which the bad stuff falls at all positions of the cross slide.? The 2 ends are ever so slightly panned upwards in order to ride up over the joint where the slotted piece meets the cross slide proper.? The inscription is simply because this is a common user lathe.? By heck, how you have to watch 'em!
Cheers,
Eddie
|
|
|
Link belts used to be, and I assume still are, very stretchy indeed, when compared with a modern cut edge (and maybe notched) V belt, which have negligible stretch, and indeed, shrink in length if they get hot due to slipping (good feature, that one). On one hand link belts have the benefit that on such as a pillar drill with cone pulleys, you can stretch them enough to change speeds without slackening the adjustment. On the other hand, you cannot use them at anywhere near the power of a non stretchy one. Many years ago I tried to run a long link belt to drive a single cylinder compressor at low speed. It would only get over TDC for about the first 10 minutes after taking one or more links out. On that particular job, I gave up on belts as it was impossible to fit an endless one without taking the flywheel off an engine and fitted a chain drive instead. (For anybody interested, Dorman 2DWD engine in a 20/28 HP Simplex 2' gauge locomotive. The only available auxiliary drive is the pulley that normally drives the fan, mounted on the camshaft end, and tightly sandwiched between the flywheel and crankcase. I replaced the pulley with a sprocket to drive the compressor and mounted a pulley and sprocket on the compressor so the fan still went round.)
There are, so far as I know, 2 sorts of link belts. The old style held together with rivets or similar. The rivet heads sit deeper in the groove than a normal V belt, and while they are designed around the groove standards for new pulleys without bottoming out, the rivets tend to sit on the bottom of the groove once the pulley becomes a bit worn. At that point, friction disappears almost entirely. You can either get a new pulley or deepen the bottom of the groove to refresh the clearance. The other sort, of which I hasten to add, I have no experience, uses a T shaped extension of each link as the joining component. If you are trying to run link belt over a flat belt pulley, skidding and probably also pulley damage is highly likely.
Many years ago, British Rail trains were fitted with a lot of link belts on Diesel Multiple Units, driving the likes of fans, exhausters and dynamos. We also had them as a stores item to replace the V belts on loco hauled coaches and the trailer cars of DMUs that had axle driven alternators. These coaches were fitted with a spare set of normal V belts under a cover on the axle pulley, and you used those once the new ones fitted at each wheelset change expired. When the reserve set expired (I think the pulleys were 6 row) you had to resort to link belts unless you could find another excuse for taking the axle down to slip a set of endless belts (and spares if you had any sense) over the end.
Anybody who had a legitimate cause for walking the track, as I did when on call for breakdowns back in the late 70s / early 80s, could collect miles of the dam stuff that had fallen off trains.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
------ Original Message ------
From: "mike allen" <animal@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Monday, 26 Jun, 23 At 04:45
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Depth of cuts
Hows your spindle bearings ? Have you done the test by using a rod through the spindle hole & lifting the rod to see what your clearances are ? Whats your finished product look like ? Like everyone else says you should be able to do better than your getting right now . I've been using HSS inserts from H R Warner for years now & I have absolutely no problem getting 0.030 & sometimes more in most things except for some mystery metal I have ended up using . I'm using a regular v-belt on the countershaft motor to large pulley , & a composite flat belt on the cone pulleys . See if theres a industrial belting company in your neck of the woods & visit them & have them make you a belt . I think I paid 10 bucks for mine . The oil on your belts does need to get fixed somehow .
animal
On 6/25/23 8:32 PM, Mike Poore wrote:
.050 should be obtainable on a SB9.
If the belt is slipping, you should try to increase the tension first. Link belts are usually not a problem. Disconnect the belts and confirm that the spindle turns freely. Large diameter work is more likely to cause slipping due to the torque required. Try back gear for large diameter work.
On 6/25/2023 4:13 PM, Steven Schlegel wrote:
Wow. Lots of questions. One fact is really obvious. My machine operator pair should take cuts 10x deeper than I am.
The lathe head and all associated gearing is good. It was recently rebuilt and all pins, etc. were replaced correctly. Of that I am pretty certain. The drive unit moves freely, was also rebuilt, and operates correctly.
Speeds are from the ebay chart I bought. The HSS tools I grind are based upon lots of videos I watch. I bought a jig to help get the angles correct. My carbide are inserts, many are still the original chinesium, but are being replaced by higher quality as they die. I use a Boxer quick change toolpost.
Now, here is where I feel the problem lies since I do not have the power to make deep cuts:
I use a link belt on the motor. It slips especially as oil gets on it. The bearing in the drive unit slings oil. The drive belt to the lathe head is a serpentine auto belt. It seems to transfer power efficiently. The drive unit is mounted on channel so it's adjustable.
I am wondering about switching to an auto v-belt for the motor. Next, could the channel be flexing? It is the kind used to support conduit.
Thanks,
Steven
Get
What sort of carbide are you using? I've never had good luck with the 0 degree rake brazed carbide. I hear that it wants to run really fast.
On 6/25/23 14:24, Brandon Corey wrote:
0.002” is way too low. I run 0.015”-0.020” at a minimum for the hardest materials. Material? Speeds? What size is your motor?
Brandon
I have a simple question. How deep of cuts do you normally make?
I have a 1949 vintage SB9C, with 6 speeds. I replaced the 1/4 hp motor with a 1/2 HP one. I use carbide a lot, but HSS still gets used some. Many of the videos say I should take at least a 0.005" cut for the best finish. I usually cannot take more than 0.002" with dragging down, or stopping, the spindle.
What's reasonable for me?
Thanks, Steven
|
Wasn't somebody here looking for this?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3133944583578155/?mibextid=dXMIcH
|
Hows your spindle bearings ? Have you done the test by using a
rod through the spindle hole & lifting the rod to see what
your clearances are ? Whats your finished product look like ? Like
everyone else says you should be able to do better than your
getting right now . I've been using HSS inserts from H R Warner
for years now & I have absolutely no problem getting 0.030
& sometimes more in most things except for some mystery metal
I have ended up using . I'm using a regular v-belt on the
countershaft motor to large pulley , & a composite flat belt
on the cone pulleys . See if theres a industrial belting company
in your neck of the woods & visit them & have them make
you a belt . I think I paid 10 bucks for mine . The oil on your
belts does need to get fixed somehow .
animal
On 6/25/23 8:32 PM, Mike Poore wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
.050 should be obtainable on a SB9.
If the belt is slipping, you should try to increase the tension
first. Link belts are usually not a problem. Disconnect the belts
and confirm that the spindle turns freely. Large diameter work is
more likely to cause slipping due to the torque required. Try back
gear for large diameter work.
On 6/25/2023 4:13 PM, Steven Schlegel
wrote:
Wow. Lots of questions. One fact is
really obvious. My machine operator pair should take cuts 10x
deeper than I am.
The lathe head and all associated
gearing is good. It was recently rebuilt and all pins, etc.
were replaced correctly. Of that I am pretty certain. The
drive unit moves freely, was also rebuilt, and operates
correctly.?
Speeds are from the ebay chart I
bought. The HSS tools I grind are based upon lots of videos I
watch. I bought a jig to help get the angles correct. My
carbide are inserts, many are still the original chinesium,
but are being replaced by higher quality as they die. I use a
Boxer quick change toolpost.
Now, here is where I feel the problem
lies since I do not have the power to make deep cuts:?
I use a link belt on the motor. It
slips especially as oil gets on it. The bearing in the drive
unit slings oil. The drive belt to the lathe head is a
serpentine auto belt. It seems to transfer power efficiently.
The drive unit is mounted on channel so it's adjustable.??
I am wondering about switching to an
auto v-belt for the motor. Next, could the channel be flexing?
It is the kind used to support conduit.
Thanks,
Steven
Get
What sort of carbide are you using? I've never had good
luck with the 0 degree rake brazed carbide. I hear that it
wants to run really fast.
On 6/25/23 14:24, Brandon Corey
wrote:
0.002” is way too low. ?I run
0.015”-0.020” at a minimum for the hardest materials.
?Material? ?Speeds? ?What size is your motor?
Brandon
I have a simple question. How deep
of cuts do you normally make?
I have a 1949 vintage SB9C, with 6 speeds. I
replaced the 1/4 hp motor with a 1/2 HP one. I
use carbide a lot, but HSS still gets used some.
Many of the videos say I should take at least a
0.005" cut for the best finish. I usually cannot
take more than 0.002" with dragging down, or
stopping, the spindle.
What's reasonable for me?
Thanks, Steven
|
.050 should be obtainable on a SB9.
If the belt is slipping, you should try to increase the tension
first. Link belts are usually not a problem. Disconnect the belts
and confirm that the spindle turns freely. Large diameter work is
more likely to cause slipping due to the torque required. Try back
gear for large diameter work.
On 6/25/2023 4:13 PM, Steven Schlegel
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wow. Lots of questions. One fact is
really obvious. My machine operator pair should take cuts 10x
deeper than I am.
The lathe head and all associated gearing
is good. It was recently rebuilt and all pins, etc. were
replaced correctly. Of that I am pretty certain. The drive unit
moves freely, was also rebuilt, and operates correctly.?
Speeds are from the ebay chart I bought.
The HSS tools I grind are based upon lots of videos I watch. I
bought a jig to help get the angles correct. My carbide are
inserts, many are still the original chinesium, but are being
replaced by higher quality as they die. I use a Boxer quick
change toolpost.
Now, here is where I feel the problem
lies since I do not have the power to make deep cuts:?
I use a link belt on the motor. It slips
especially as oil gets on it. The bearing in the drive unit
slings oil. The drive belt to the lathe head is a serpentine
auto belt. It seems to transfer power efficiently. The drive
unit is mounted on channel so it's adjustable.??
I am wondering about switching to an auto
v-belt for the motor. Next, could the channel be flexing? It is
the kind used to support conduit.
Thanks,
Steven
Get
What sort of carbide are you using? I've never had good luck
with the 0 degree rake brazed carbide. I hear that it wants to
run really fast.
On 6/25/23 14:24, Brandon Corey
wrote:
0.002” is way too low. ?I run
0.015”-0.020” at a minimum for the hardest materials.
?Material? ?Speeds? ?What size is your motor?
Brandon
I have a simple question. How deep of
cuts do you normally make?
I have a 1949 vintage SB9C, with 6 speeds. I
replaced the 1/4 hp motor with a 1/2 HP one. I use
carbide a lot, but HSS still gets used some. Many
of the videos say I should take at least a 0.005"
cut for the best finish. I usually cannot take
more than 0.002" with dragging down, or stopping,
the spindle.
What's reasonable for me?
Thanks, Steven
|
Do you have the setup with the V belt pulley on the motor and a
large flat pulley on the countershaft? Looks strange but this was
standard.
I'm a great fan of the link belts for V-belt pulleys. I've had
one long time no problem on a wood lathe. Link belt on a flat
pulley sounds like a problem to me but I have no direct
experience.
A V belt in a V groove wedges in and gets good traction. A
regular V belt works well enough on that big, flat, pulley because
there is so much surface area in contact.
So yes, changing that belt sounds to me like a reasonable thing
to try.
On 6/25/23 16:13, Steven Schlegel
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wow. Lots of questions. One fact is
really obvious. My machine operator pair should take cuts 10x
deeper than I am.
The lathe head and all associated gearing
is good. It was recently rebuilt and all pins, etc. were
replaced correctly. Of that I am pretty certain. The drive unit
moves freely, was also rebuilt, and operates correctly.?
Speeds are from the ebay chart I bought.
The HSS tools I grind are based upon lots of videos I watch. I
bought a jig to help get the angles correct. My carbide are
inserts, many are still the original chinesium, but are being
replaced by higher quality as they die. I use a Boxer quick
change toolpost.
Now, here is where I feel the problem
lies since I do not have the power to make deep cuts:?
I use a link belt on the motor. It slips
especially as oil gets on it. The bearing in the drive unit
slings oil. The drive belt to the lathe head is a serpentine
auto belt. It seems to transfer power efficiently. The drive
unit is mounted on channel so it's adjustable.??
I am wondering about switching to an auto
v-belt for the motor. Next, could the channel be flexing? It is
the kind used to support conduit.
Thanks,
Steven
Get
What sort of carbide are you using? I've never had good luck
with the 0 degree rake brazed carbide. I hear that it wants to
run really fast.
On 6/25/23 14:24, Brandon Corey
wrote:
0.002” is way too low. ?I run
0.015”-0.020” at a minimum for the hardest materials.
?Material? ?Speeds? ?What size is your motor?
Brandon
I have a simple question. How deep of
cuts do you normally make?
I have a 1949 vintage SB9C, with 6 speeds. I
replaced the 1/4 hp motor with a 1/2 HP one. I use
carbide a lot, but HSS still gets used some. Many
of the videos say I should take at least a 0.005"
cut for the best finish. I usually cannot take
more than 0.002" with dragging down, or stopping,
the spindle.
What's reasonable for me?
Thanks, Steven
|
Can you share some photos of your belt setup? In particular, the area with the bearing that's throwing oil.
I had similar problems with belt slipping, and just had to tighten it up; but I haven't had any issues with getting lubricant on the drive pulleys (and I recall a recent thread about that... I'm assuming that was also your lathe.)
Seeing some details would definitely help.
--Rogan
Wow. Lots of questions. One fact is really obvious. My machine operator pair should take cuts 10x deeper than I am.
The lathe head and all associated gearing is good. It was recently rebuilt and all pins, etc. were replaced correctly. Of that I am pretty certain. The drive unit moves freely, was also rebuilt, and operates correctly.?
Speeds are from the ebay chart I bought. The HSS tools I grind are based upon lots of videos I watch. I bought a jig to help get the angles correct. My carbide are inserts, many are still the original chinesium, but are being replaced
by higher quality as they die. I use a Boxer quick change toolpost.
Now, here is where I feel the problem lies since I do not have the power to make deep cuts:?
I use a link belt on the motor. It slips especially as oil gets on it. The bearing in the drive unit slings oil. The drive belt to the lathe head is a serpentine auto belt. It seems to transfer power efficiently. The drive unit is mounted
on channel so it's adjustable.??
I am wondering about switching to an auto v-belt for the motor. Next, could the channel be flexing? It is the kind used to support conduit.
Thanks,
Steven
Get
What sort of carbide are you using? I've never had good luck with the 0 degree rake brazed carbide. I hear that it wants to run really fast.
On 6/25/23 14:24, Brandon Corey wrote:
0.002” is way too low.? I run 0.015”-0.020” at a minimum for the hardest materials.? Material?? Speeds?? What size is your motor?
Brandon
I have a simple question. How deep of cuts do you normally make?
I have a 1949 vintage SB9C, with 6 speeds. I replaced the 1/4 hp motor with a 1/2 HP one. I use carbide a lot, but HSS still gets used some. Many of the videos say I should take at least a 0.005" cut for the best finish. I usually cannot take more than 0.002"
with dragging down, or stopping, the spindle.
What's reasonable for me?
Thanks, Steven
|
Jim_B
tk_1971
eddie.draper@btinternet.com
W.D.Bill