Re: Probably not a good thing
Too bad. Very sorry to see this.
PG
|
Re: Probably not a good thing
Nope. Probably not a good thing.
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 06:43:40 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
|
Re: Probably not a good thing
I can't afford to buy their stuff new , but fortunately I've been doing
real well at some of the pawn shops when I go to Reno . Last visit got
me a Starrett 823 BZ inside mic kit for $32.00 .
Those pawn shops are slowley filling my machinist tool box .
animal
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On 3/14/24 5:29 PM, ww_big_al wrote: There goes another good company to a private equity firm. I haven't heard of too many positive results when this happens. They borrow a bunch on money to purchase it, then it’s the new acquired company is saddled with that dept. Often going into bankruptcy. After it is stripped of the high profit production. China, here it comes.
Al
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of mike allen
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:44 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Probably not a good thing
company-enters-into-a-merger-agreement-with-middleground-
capital-to-become-private-company
animal
|
Re: Probably not a good thing
There goes another good company to a private equity firm. I haven't heard of too many positive results when this happens. They borrow a bunch on money to purchase it, then it’s the new acquired company is saddled with that dept. Often going into bankruptcy. After it is stripped of the high profit production. China, here it comes.
Al
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Probably not a good thing
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Re: What is reasonable asking price for a 1961 heavy 10
It’s all back together and I have it running now. The previous owner had put it back together and had been using it since he primed it. Some parts still have original paint.?
turns out it comes with two motors- a single phase that is attached and running and a three phase that is resting on a platform. The forward reverse is wired to 3 phase and the single phase is wired to a regular on/off light switch. Had thought light switch went to work light attached to carriage.
It has the newer double tumbler gear box.?
judging by the ways it has low to modest wear.?
had to dig out the lathe from behind my siding brake to get at it from the front.?
I’ll probably throw it on marketplace for $2500 and see if I get any action.
mark
|
Re: What is reasonable asking price for a 1961 heavy 10
"Previous owner had stripped it all down and primed the lathe but not painted it."
The details there are going to make a *huge* difference.? Is it disassembled? Was it stripped and primed without taking it apart? Was it assembled?after priming, but needs taken apart and painted again? Are the machined surfaces/bolt holes masked still? etc...
Let's assume it's painted, assembled, and can be demonstrated working without significant wear (E.g. you can turn a ~6" bar to within a few tenths pretty much "as-is").
If it has a quick-change gear box, then you'd probably be able to get $2000-$3000 in the Pacific Northwest, if you're somewhat patient. You'll have to adjust for your location.? At $1500 it would probably sell in a day out here.
If it does *not* have the gearbox, then $1500-$2k, but might take a few weeks to find a buyer.
If it's in need of a complete?overhaul to get it actually painted properly, then you should probably do that before you consider selling it.
--Rogan
My son picked up a Southbend Heavy 10 serial number 12446RKL16. Near as I can tell it is a 1961 Heavy 10. It has the lever action collet closer on the head stock, taper attachment, and an aftermarket quick change tool post with a few tool holders. It has both a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck and a faceplate and a drive plate. On lathe dog and a handful of 5c collets. It appears to have a 3 phase motor. It’s on an original south bend cabinet. It does have original lantern tool post or at least parts of it.
Previous owner had stripped it all down and primed the lathe but not painted it. I’m still in process of cleaning it up a bit after sitting in my unheated shop this past winter.
Located in central Virginia.
I haven’t really been paying attention to prices for a while.
I know the one answer being whatever a buyer is willing to pay but that doesn’t really help set a fair asking price.
He needs to partially fund a newer heavier lathe that is more in line with what he needs for his job shop. He’s holding my SouthBend Fourteen hostage ?until he gets something else.
Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman
|
Re: What is reasonable asking price for a 1961 heavy 10
If ya have it apart I'd replace all the felts . That's something a buyer
that knows about these machine would ask about . As far as a price , I'd
spend some time on FB & CL for yer area to get some sort of idea of its
value . That 3 phase motor may be a deal breaker for alot of buyers .
What other tooling does it have ? Chucks ?
animal
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Show quoted text
On 3/11/24 2:09 PM, Mark R. Jonkman wrote: My son picked up a Southbend Heavy 10 serial number 12446RKL16. Near as I can tell it is a 1961 Heavy 10. It has the lever action collet closer on the head stock, taper attachment, and an aftermarket quick change tool post with a few tool holders. It has both a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck and a faceplate and a drive plate. On lathe dog and a handful of 5c collets. It appears to have a 3 phase motor. It’s on an original south bend cabinet. It does have original lantern tool post or at least parts of it.
Previous owner had stripped it all down and primed the lathe but not painted it. I’m still in process of cleaning it up a bit after sitting in my unheated shop this past winter.
Located in central Virginia.
I haven’t really been paying attention to prices for a while.
I know the one answer being whatever a buyer is willing to pay but that doesn’t really help set a fair asking price.
He needs to partially fund a newer heavier lathe that is more in line with what he needs for his job shop. He’s holding my SouthBend Fourteen hostage ?until he gets something else.
Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman
|
What is reasonable asking price for a 1961 heavy 10
My son picked up a Southbend Heavy 10 serial number 12446RKL16. Near as I can tell it is a 1961 Heavy 10. It has the lever action collet closer on the head stock, taper attachment, and an aftermarket quick change tool post with a few tool holders. It has both a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck and a faceplate and a drive plate. On lathe dog and a handful of 5c collets. It appears to have a 3 phase motor. It’s on an original south bend cabinet. It does have original lantern tool post or at least parts of it.
Previous owner had stripped it all down and primed the lathe but not painted it. I’m still in process of cleaning it up a bit after sitting in my unheated shop this past winter.
Located in central Virginia.
I haven’t really been paying attention to prices for a while.
I know the one answer being whatever a buyer is willing to pay but that doesn’t really help set a fair asking price.
He needs to partially fund a newer heavier lathe that is more in line with what he needs for his job shop. He’s holding my SouthBend Fourteen hostage ?until he gets something else.
Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
BTW.? Double check my thread depths.? Initially the nut didn’t fit.? In hindsight I should have done the shaft first and then used it to test the nut threads increasing thread depth in the nut until the shaft screwed on easily.? ? If it’s done the other way around it’s really hard to realign the internal boring threading tool with the existing threads since they start from the headstock end and move to the tailstock.? Can’t see anything to line them up.? Plus holding the nut on the shaft for periodic testing is clumsy.? ? Don’t ask me how I know. John ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Dammeyer
Sent: March 8, 2024 1:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: 'mike allen'
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Indexable carbide insert turning tools? Here you go.? I can send them as STP or if you have Alibre I can give you AD_PRT files. John ? ? Nice job John . DO you have a copy of that drawing ya might be able to? please send me ? thanks animal On 3/7/24 8:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: My Southbend 10L got some use over the last week creating a slitting saw arbour for saws with a 1” hole.? LH threaded arbour and nut.? Nut was held in 3-Jaw and threaded internally from left to right using my ELS. Really like having the QCTP for a project like this.? It was turned between centers to avoid issues with mounting and unmounting for test fitting the saw blade for example. ? John ? ? ? That's the one.? :)? First thing I put? QCTP on was my Atlas, since the the rocker was missing when I got it. So I made a rocker, and bought it an AXA-clone. My first lathe was a 7x10 mini-lathe from Harbor Freight. It had the tool block. I eventually got it a QCTP, as well.? I'd been having problems with the mini-lathe, and moaned about it to my wife one day. She told me to take another class. At the time it had been about 41 years since I'd taken my first class. In that class, I learned that it wasn't the lathe that was the problem, but the operator. But I did get a bunch of experience of QCTPs on the class lathes. They had a 13", and a dozen or so 15" Clausing Colchester lathes. I mostly used the 13" lathe because it was closest to what I had at home. Not real close...? I'd also spent a lot of time reading everything? I could lay hands on about machining. Takes practice to put it all together, but I spent over 7 years? in that class, a couple times a week. Eventually I got to the point the instructor said I was turning into a good machinist. I did some projects of my own, as well as their stuff. Had a lot of fun at it. I'd started building a small (and small machine) workshop in my back porch. That's gotten interrupted several times. Back at cleaning it up and sorting out useless junk so I can get to the machines. Not for the first time, either. Got a hydraulic press & blasting cabinet recently to help with machine repair and restoration. Once they're set up, will be working on my Heavy 10L. Press came in handy working on my old pickup this past week, too. Can't wait until I can get the big (relative to my other machines) lathe working! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first. ? On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:27:21 PM CST, Nick via groups.io <n9viw@...> wrote: Bill,
?? If your 'polemic' included the bit about keeping your lanterns but switching to QCTPs on your various machines, and the benefits and drawbacks of lanterns vs square posts, I saw it. I found it valuable. I lack the funds for a QCTP myself, and I think my old 10R lacks the power to drive carbide tooling, but I'm considering a switch to an Enco 3.5" turret. I can still use my 1/4" HSS in mild steel holders, but plan to step up to 1/2" HSS, at least until I get enough practice in to warrant spending the ducats on something better.
Nick
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
Here you go.? I can send them as STP or if you have Alibre I can give you AD_PRT files. John ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mike allen
Sent: March 8, 2024 12:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Indexable carbide insert turning tools? Nice job John . DO you have a copy of that drawing ya might be able to? please send me ? thanks animal On 3/7/24 8:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: My Southbend 10L got some use over the last week creating a slitting saw arbour for saws with a 1” hole.? LH threaded arbour and nut.? Nut was held in 3-Jaw and threaded internally from left to right using my ELS. Really like having the QCTP for a project like this.? It was turned between centers to avoid issues with mounting and unmounting for test fitting the saw blade for example. ? John ? ? ? That's the one.? :)? First thing I put? QCTP on was my Atlas, since the the rocker was missing when I got it. So I made a rocker, and bought it an AXA-clone. My first lathe was a 7x10 mini-lathe from Harbor Freight. It had the tool block. I eventually got it a QCTP, as well.? I'd been having problems with the mini-lathe, and moaned about it to my wife one day. She told me to take another class. At the time it had been about 41 years since I'd taken my first class. In that class, I learned that it wasn't the lathe that was the problem, but the operator. But I did get a bunch of experience of QCTPs on the class lathes. They had a 13", and a dozen or so 15" Clausing Colchester lathes. I mostly used the 13" lathe because it was closest to what I had at home. Not real close...? I'd also spent a lot of time reading everything? I could lay hands on about machining. Takes practice to put it all together, but I spent over 7 years? in that class, a couple times a week. Eventually I got to the point the instructor said I was turning into a good machinist. I did some projects of my own, as well as their stuff. Had a lot of fun at it. I'd started building a small (and small machine) workshop in my back porch. That's gotten interrupted several times. Back at cleaning it up and sorting out useless junk so I can get to the machines. Not for the first time, either. Got a hydraulic press & blasting cabinet recently to help with machine repair and restoration. Once they're set up, will be working on my Heavy 10L. Press came in handy working on my old pickup this past week, too. Can't wait until I can get the big (relative to my other machines) lathe working! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first. ? On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:27:21 PM CST, Nick via groups.io <n9viw@...> wrote: Bill,
?? If your 'polemic' included the bit about keeping your lanterns but switching to QCTPs on your various machines, and the benefits and drawbacks of lanterns vs square posts, I saw it. I found it valuable. I lack the funds for a QCTP myself, and I think my old 10R lacks the power to drive carbide tooling, but I'm considering a switch to an Enco 3.5" turret. I can still use my 1/4" HSS in mild steel holders, but plan to step up to 1/2" HSS, at least until I get enough practice in to warrant spending the ducats on something better.
Nick
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
Nice job John . DO you have a copy of that drawing ya might be
able to? please send me ?
thanks
animal
On 3/7/24 8:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My
Southbend 10L got some use over the last week creating a
slitting saw arbour for saws with a 1” hole.? LH threaded
arbour and nut.? Nut was held in 3-Jaw and threaded
internally from left to right using my ELS.
Really
like having the QCTP for a project like this.? It was turned
between centers to avoid issues with mounting and unmounting
for test fitting the saw blade for example.
?
John
?
?
?
That's
the one.? :)? First thing I put? QCTP on was my Atlas,
since the the rocker was missing when I got it. So I
made a rocker, and bought it an AXA-clone. My first
lathe was a 7x10 mini-lathe from Harbor Freight. It
had the tool block. I eventually got it a QCTP, as
well.?
I'd
been having problems with the mini-lathe, and moaned
about it to my wife one day. She told me to take
another class. At the time it had been about 41 years
since I'd taken my first class. In that class, I
learned that it wasn't the lathe that was the problem,
but the operator. But I did get a bunch of experience
of QCTPs on the class lathes. They had a 13", and a
dozen or so 15" Clausing Colchester lathes. I mostly
used the 13" lathe because it was closest to what I
had at home. Not real close...?
I'd
also spent a lot of time reading everything?
I could
lay hands on about machining. Takes practice to put it
all together, but I spent over 7 years? in that class,
a couple times a week. Eventually I got to the point
the instructor said I was turning into a good
machinist. I did some projects of my own, as well as
their stuff. Had a lot of fun at it. I'd started
building a small (and small machine) workshop in my
back porch. That's gotten interrupted several times.
Back at cleaning it up and sorting out useless junk so
I can get to the machines. Not for the first time,
either. Got a hydraulic press & blasting cabinet
recently to help with machine repair and restoration.
Once they're set up, will be working on my Heavy 10L.
Press came in handy working on my old pickup this past
week, too. Can't wait until I can get the big
(relative to my other machines) lathe working!
William R.
Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Good
judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START to
know better.
Expect
in one hand, expectorate in the other. See
which one gets full first.
?
On
Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:27:21 PM CST, Nick via
groups.io <n9viw@...> wrote:
Bill,
?? If your 'polemic' included the bit about
keeping your lanterns but switching to QCTPs on
your various machines, and the benefits and
drawbacks of lanterns vs square posts, I saw it.
I found it valuable. I lack the funds for a QCTP
myself, and I think my old 10R lacks the power
to drive carbide tooling, but I'm considering a
switch to an Enco 3.5" turret. I can still use
my 1/4" HSS in mild steel holders, but plan to
step up to 1/2" HSS, at least until I get enough
practice in to warrant spending the ducats on
something better.
Nick
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
My Southbend 10L got some use over the last week creating a slitting saw arbour for saws with a 1” hole.? LH threaded arbour and nut.? Nut was held in 3-Jaw and threaded internally from left to right using my ELS. Really like having the QCTP for a project like this.? It was turned between centers to avoid issues with mounting and unmounting for test fitting the saw blade for example. ? John ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io
Sent: March 7, 2024 7:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Indexable carbide insert turning tools? That's the one.? :)? First thing I put? QCTP on was my Atlas, since the the rocker was missing when I got it. So I made a rocker, and bought it an AXA-clone. My first lathe was a 7x10 mini-lathe from Harbor Freight. It had the tool block. I eventually got it a QCTP, as well.? I'd been having problems with the mini-lathe, and moaned about it to my wife one day. She told me to take another class. At the time it had been about 41 years since I'd taken my first class. In that class, I learned that it wasn't the lathe that was the problem, but the operator. But I did get a bunch of experience of QCTPs on the class lathes. They had a 13", and a dozen or so 15" Clausing Colchester lathes. I mostly used the 13" lathe because it was closest to what I had at home. Not real close...? I'd also spent a lot of time reading everything? I could lay hands on about machining. Takes practice to put it all together, but I spent over 7 years? in that class, a couple times a week. Eventually I got to the point the instructor said I was turning into a good machinist. I did some projects of my own, as well as their stuff. Had a lot of fun at it. I'd started building a small (and small machine) workshop in my back porch. That's gotten interrupted several times. Back at cleaning it up and sorting out useless junk so I can get to the machines. Not for the first time, either. Got a hydraulic press & blasting cabinet recently to help with machine repair and restoration. Once they're set up, will be working on my Heavy 10L. Press came in handy working on my old pickup this past week, too. Can't wait until I can get the big (relative to my other machines) lathe working! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first. ? On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:27:21 PM CST, Nick via groups.io <n9viw@...> wrote: Bill,
?? If your 'polemic' included the bit about keeping your lanterns but switching to QCTPs on your various machines, and the benefits and drawbacks of lanterns vs square posts, I saw it. I found it valuable. I lack the funds for a QCTP myself, and I think my old 10R lacks the power to drive carbide tooling, but I'm considering a switch to an Enco 3.5" turret. I can still use my 1/4" HSS in mild steel holders, but plan to step up to 1/2" HSS, at least until I get enough practice in to warrant spending the ducats on something better.
Nick
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
That's the one.? :)? First thing I put? QCTP on was my Atlas, since the the rocker was missing when I got it. So I made a rocker, and bought it an AXA-clone. My first lathe was a 7x10 mini-lathe from Harbor Freight. It had the tool block. I eventually got it a QCTP, as well.?
I'd been having problems with the mini-lathe, and moaned about it to my wife one day. She told me to take another class. At the time it had been about 41 years since I'd taken my first class. In that class, I learned that it wasn't the lathe that was the problem, but the operator. But I did get a bunch of experience of QCTPs on the class lathes. They had a 13", and a dozen or so 15" Clausing Colchester lathes. I mostly used the 13" lathe because it was closest to what I had at home. Not real close...?
I'd also spent a lot of time reading everything? I could lay hands on about machining. Takes practice to put it all together, but I spent over 7 years? in that class, a couple times a week. Eventually I got to the point the instructor said I was turning into a good machinist. I did some projects of my own, as well as their stuff. Had a lot of fun at it. I'd started building a small (and small machine) workshop in my back porch. That's gotten interrupted several times. Back at cleaning it up and sorting out useless junk so I can get to the machines. Not for the first time, either. Got a hydraulic press & blasting cabinet recently to help with machine repair and restoration. Once they're set up, will be working on my Heavy 10L. Press came in handy working on my old pickup this past week, too. Can't wait until I can get the big (relative to my other machines) lathe working!
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:27:21 PM CST, Nick via groups.io <n9viw@...> wrote:
Bill,
?? If your 'polemic' included the bit about keeping your lanterns but switching to QCTPs on your various machines, and the benefits and drawbacks of lanterns vs square posts, I saw it. I found it valuable. I lack the funds for a QCTP myself, and I think my old 10R lacks the power to drive carbide tooling, but I'm considering a switch to an Enco 3.5" turret. I can still use my 1/4" HSS in mild steel holders, but plan to step up to 1/2" HSS, at least until I get enough practice in to warrant spending the ducats on something better.
Nick
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
Great post Eddie . last spring we did a road trip & one of
our stops was in the town of Ely Nv . We got a unguided tour of
the railroad museum . I spent most of my time in the machine shop
just walking around & being amazed at the size & purposes?
of a lot of the machines used there . I took a lot of pics , but
unfortunately the machine that did both train wheels at the same
time pictures are just a blur . Most of the tooling looked to me
to be special ground in the shop for each machine? what ever tasks
it was needed for .
thanks
animal
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Show quoted text
Going
a bit off topic, but I think that what you call drill rod in
the US, is probably what we call silver steel in the UK. ?It
is plain carbon steel, something like 1 or 1.1% C and nothing
else (maybe apart from enough Mn to soak up impurities).
?Annealed, you can file or machine it to whatever shape you
want, but hardened and tempered it is a cutting tool of nearly
pure iron carbide for any steel softer than itself and
especially for brass components, such as the profiled cones
for steam engine injectors. ?You can also buy standard specs
of alloy steel that can also be annealed or hardened and
tempered any number of times.
One
little tip if you can't easily get what you need in small
quantities of bar stock is to use high strength bolts. ?A
grade X (imp) or 12.9 (metric) Allen screw can be filed (just)
but will very readily cut softer metal if given a cutting
edge. ?They are amenable to annealing. ?You might even be able
to harden them further, as the strength grades for nuts &
bolts are based solely on mechanical properties and not
composition, so could be of any composition and heat treatment
that allows those properties. ?I have made a number of small
parallel reamers from them.
The
first railway wheel tread & flange profiles I saw being
produced on an ancient lathe in Doncaster works in about 1975
were provided by a single whole profile tool. ?I later learned
that the tool was not a manufactured piece but traditionally
an apprentice job, to be marked and cut out by hand. ?Maybe
they were allowed a milling machine for roughing out. ?They
started life about 2" thick and just had the top face ground
for sharpening. ?The lathe turned very slowly, but did both
wheels at once, with the tools just being forced straight in.
Of course, this needed both L & R hand tools. ?You tell
that to the kids of today...
?
Eddie
?
------ Original Message ------
From: dejongray@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 7th 2024, 19:11
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Indexable carbide insert turning
tools
?
?
Bill; I agree wholehearted with you. I make
emergency taps, and all kinds of 'experimental' tool bis
from drill rod and o1tool steel - cheep,easy to heat treet
and reuseable. And fun to do
Ray
?
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:45:29 AM PST, Bill in
OKC too via groups.io
<wmrmeyers@...> wrote: ?
?
Yes, you certainly can.
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
?
?
I haven’t used a lantern post in about
35 years. I don’t miss it. When I bought
my South Be d 10L Heavy back in 1983, it
came with one. I used it for several
years, becoming increasingly frustrated
with it. I ended up buying a Dorian BXA.
Great post. You can use anything you
want in it, including HSS tooling.?
?
I really don’t recommend carbon
steel. Even finding that for lathe
tooling is going to be hard to do. You
can grind your own HSS or brazed
carbide, or even, if you have the proper
grinder, carbide inserts.
?
?
?
Mel
?
On Mar 7, 2024, at 9:45?AM, Bill
in OKC too via groups.io
<wmrmeyers@...>
wrote:
?
Well crud. If you are even
remotely interested in reading
my polemic on toolposts, you'd
have to hit the "show trimmed
text" or just read the quoted
text here...?
?
Somehow trimming the 4 or 5
previous quoted messages
trimmed my text too. Maybe I
should stop doing this on my
phone?
?
:)
?
Bill in OKC?
?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
Aphorisms
to live by:
Good judgement
comes from
experience.
Experience comes
from bad
judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
?
Improvise,
Adapt, and
Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about
your schedule.
The
only reason I know
anything is
because I've done
it wrong enough
times to START to
know better.
?
Expect
in one hand,
expectorate in the
other. See which
one gets full
first.
?
?
?
?
On Thursday, March 7,
2024 at 07:39:39 AM CST,
Bill in OKC too via
groups.io
<wmrmeyers@...>
wrote: ?
?
Because
lanterns work
better for
some things.
And Blocks
work better
for some other
things, so you
should have
one of those,
too. Likewise
a QCTP and
lots of tool
holders to fit
it. Depends on
what you're
doing as to
which is
best.?
?
Lantern
will let you
push the size
limits of your
lathe a bit
better than
the others. A
block tool
post works
better if you
have a small
number of
tools you
usually use,
and a QCTP is
is best for
high volume
production
work on
complex
parts.?
?
One
advantage to
the lantern
post is that
you can forge
specialty
tools in a
high carbon
tool steel and
get incredibly
sharp edges
for tricky
work. With a
couple hundred
years of
fantastic work
to back it up.
;)?
?
Blocks
& QCTPs
are more
convenient but
not quite as
versatile.
Which is best
depends on
what you need
to do. And you
can still do
good work even
if you don't
have the best
toolpost. It's
probably going
to be a bit
slower, but
still doable.
I put a QCTP
on my Atlas
TH42 when I
bought it, but
kept the
lantern post.
And if I ever
get my SB
Heavy 10L
restored, it's
getting a QCTP
also, but I'll
be keeping the
lantern post
too.? Never
can tell when
you might need
a bit more
reach.
?
Bill in
OKC?
?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
Aphorisms
to live by:
Good
judgement
comes from
experience.
Experience
comes from bad
judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
?
Improvise,
Adapt, and
Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care
about your
schedule.
The
only reason I
know anything
is because
I've done it
wrong enough
times to START
to know
better.
?
Expect
in one hand,
expectorate in
the other. See
which one gets
full first.
?
?
?
?
Why
are people
still using
lanterns?? Get
yourself a
chunk of
square steel,
hold in 4 jaw,
hole through
the middle,
clamp down on
top of
compound,
milling cutter
in chuck, 8
tapped holes
& you've
got a 4 way
that holds any
sort of tool.?
This assumes
you don't want
to lay out �?$
on a QCTP.
?
Eddie
?
Snip!
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
Bill,
?? If your 'polemic' included the bit about keeping your lanterns but switching to QCTPs on your various machines, and the benefits and drawbacks of lanterns vs square posts, I saw it. I found it valuable. I lack the funds for a QCTP myself, and I think my old 10R lacks the power to drive carbide tooling, but I'm considering a switch to an Enco 3.5" turret. I can still use my 1/4" HSS in mild steel holders, but plan to step up to 1/2" HSS, at least until I get enough practice in to warrant spending the ducats on something better.
Nick
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
Drill rod is just a product designation: tool steel machined to very tight tolerance.
Underneath that designation you have to identify the metal itself: A2, D2,?M2, O1, W1, and probably a few more that I can't remember.?
I generally specify D2, or HSS drill rod when I need something that does not need hardening after machining, or O1, or W1 when I need to make something that will be hardened later.?
The HSS (or M2) drill rod is quite adequate for making HSS cutters or boring bars, or threading bars....
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
US drill rod is any ground rod, usually centerless ground, and is available in many types, from 1095 to O1 to S7, and A2 to M2 High Speed Steel.? Therefore specifying drill rod as a material means nothing.
Going a bit off topic, but I think that what you call drill rod in the US, is probably what we call silver steel in the UK. ?It is plain carbon steel, something like 1 or 1.1% C and nothing else
(maybe apart from enough Mn to soak up impurities). ?Annealed, you can file or machine it to whatever shape you want, but hardened and tempered it is a cutting tool of nearly pure iron carbide for any steel softer than itself and especially for brass components,
such as the profiled cones for steam engine injectors. ?You can also buy standard specs of alloy steel that can also be annealed or hardened and tempered any number of times.
One little tip if you can't easily get what you need in small quantities of bar stock is to use high strength bolts. ?A grade X (imp) or 12.9 (metric) Allen screw can be filed (just) but will
very readily cut softer metal if given a cutting edge. ?They are amenable to annealing. ?You might even be able to harden them further, as the strength grades for nuts & bolts are based solely on mechanical properties and not composition, so could be of any
composition and heat treatment that allows those properties. ?I have made a number of small parallel reamers from them.
The first railway wheel tread & flange profiles I saw being produced on an ancient lathe in Doncaster works in about 1975 were provided by a single whole profile tool. ?I later learned that the
tool was not a manufactured piece but traditionally an apprentice job, to be marked and cut out by hand. ?Maybe they were allowed a milling machine for roughing out. ?They started life about 2" thick and just had the top face ground for sharpening. ?The lathe
turned very slowly, but did both wheels at once, with the tools just being forced straight in. Of course, this needed both L & R hand tools. ?You tell that to the kids of today...
?
Eddie
?
------ Original Message ------
From: dejongray@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 7th 2024, 19:11
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Indexable carbide insert turning tools
?
?
Bill; I agree wholehearted with you. I make emergency taps, and all kinds of 'experimental' tool bis from drill rod and o1tool steel - cheep,easy to heat treet and reuseable. And fun to do
Ray
?
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:45:29 AM PST, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
?
?
Yes, you certainly can.
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
?
?
I haven’t used a lantern post in about 35 years. I don’t miss it. When I bought my South Be d 10L Heavy back in 1983, it came with one. I used it for several years, becoming increasingly frustrated with it. I ended up buying a Dorian BXA. Great post. You
can use anything you want in it, including HSS tooling.?
?
I really don’t recommend carbon steel. Even finding that for lathe tooling is going to be hard to do. You can grind your own HSS or brazed carbide, or even, if you have the proper grinder, carbide inserts.
?
?
?
Mel
?
On Mar 7, 2024, at 9:45?AM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
?
Well crud. If you are even remotely interested in reading my polemic on toolposts, you'd have to hit the "show trimmed text" or just read the quoted text here...?
?
Somehow trimming the 4 or 5 previous quoted messages trimmed my text too. Maybe I should stop doing this on my phone?
?
:)
?
Bill in OKC?
?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
?
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
?
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
?
?
?
?
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 07:39:39 AM CST, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
?
?
Because lanterns work better for some things. And Blocks work better for some other things, so you should have one of those, too. Likewise a QCTP and lots of tool holders to fit it. Depends on what you're doing as to which is best.?
?
Lantern will let you push the size limits of your lathe a bit better than the others. A block tool post works better if you have a small number of tools you usually use, and a QCTP is is best for high volume production work on complex parts.?
?
One advantage to the lantern post is that you can forge specialty tools in a high carbon tool steel and get incredibly sharp edges for tricky work. With a couple hundred years of fantastic work to back it up. ;)?
?
Blocks & QCTPs are more convenient but not quite as versatile. Which is best depends on what you need to do. And you can still do good work even if you don't have the best toolpost. It's probably going to be a bit slower, but still doable. I put a QCTP
on my Atlas TH42 when I bought it, but kept the lantern post. And if I ever get my SB Heavy 10L restored, it's getting a QCTP also, but I'll be keeping the lantern post too.? Never can tell when you might need a bit more reach.
?
Bill in OKC?
?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
?
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
?
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
?
?
?
?
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 02:00:35 AM CST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:
?
?
Why are people still using lanterns?? Get yourself a chunk of square steel, hold in 4 jaw, hole through the middle, clamp down on top of compound, milling cutter in chuck, 8 tapped holes & you've got a 4 way that holds any sort of tool.? This assumes you don't
want to lay out �?$ on a QCTP.
?
Eddie
?
Snip!
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
Drill rod in the US to me is about straightness.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:24 PM, Robert Bradley < rcbradley@...> wrote:
US drill rod is any ground rod, usually centerless ground, and is available in many types, from 1095 to O1 to S7, and A2 to M2 High Speed Steel.? Therefore specifying drill rod as a material means nothing.
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
US drill rod is any ground rod, usually centerless ground, and is available in many types, from 1095 to O1 to S7, and A2 to M2 High Speed Steel.? Therefore specifying drill rod as a material means nothing.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Going a bit off topic, but I think that what you call drill rod in the US, is probably what we call silver steel in the UK. ?It is plain carbon steel, something like 1 or 1.1% C and nothing else
(maybe apart from enough Mn to soak up impurities). ?Annealed, you can file or machine it to whatever shape you want, but hardened and tempered it is a cutting tool of nearly pure iron carbide for any steel softer than itself and especially for brass components,
such as the profiled cones for steam engine injectors. ?You can also buy standard specs of alloy steel that can also be annealed or hardened and tempered any number of times.
One little tip if you can't easily get what you need in small quantities of bar stock is to use high strength bolts. ?A grade X (imp) or 12.9 (metric) Allen screw can be filed (just) but will
very readily cut softer metal if given a cutting edge. ?They are amenable to annealing. ?You might even be able to harden them further, as the strength grades for nuts & bolts are based solely on mechanical properties and not composition, so could be of any
composition and heat treatment that allows those properties. ?I have made a number of small parallel reamers from them.
The first railway wheel tread & flange profiles I saw being produced on an ancient lathe in Doncaster works in about 1975 were provided by a single whole profile tool. ?I later learned that the
tool was not a manufactured piece but traditionally an apprentice job, to be marked and cut out by hand. ?Maybe they were allowed a milling machine for roughing out. ?They started life about 2" thick and just had the top face ground for sharpening. ?The lathe
turned very slowly, but did both wheels at once, with the tools just being forced straight in. Of course, this needed both L & R hand tools. ?You tell that to the kids of today...
?
Eddie
?
------ Original Message ------
From: dejongray@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 7th 2024, 19:11
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Indexable carbide insert turning tools
?
?
Bill; I agree wholehearted with you. I make emergency taps, and all kinds of 'experimental' tool bis from drill rod and o1tool steel - cheep,easy to heat treet and reuseable. And fun to do
Ray
?
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 08:45:29 AM PST, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
?
?
Yes, you certainly can.
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
?
?
I haven’t used a lantern post in about 35 years. I don’t miss it. When I bought my South Be d 10L Heavy back in 1983, it came with one. I used it for several years, becoming increasingly frustrated with it. I ended up buying a Dorian BXA. Great post. You
can use anything you want in it, including HSS tooling.?
?
I really don’t recommend carbon steel. Even finding that for lathe tooling is going to be hard to do. You can grind your own HSS or brazed carbide, or even, if you have the proper grinder, carbide inserts.
?
?
?
Mel
?
On Mar 7, 2024, at 9:45?AM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
?
Well crud. If you are even remotely interested in reading my polemic on toolposts, you'd have to hit the "show trimmed text" or just read the quoted text here...?
?
Somehow trimming the 4 or 5 previous quoted messages trimmed my text too. Maybe I should stop doing this on my phone?
?
:)
?
Bill in OKC?
?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
?
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
?
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
?
?
?
?
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 07:39:39 AM CST, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
?
?
Because lanterns work better for some things. And Blocks work better for some other things, so you should have one of those, too. Likewise a QCTP and lots of tool holders to fit it. Depends on what you're doing as to which is best.?
?
Lantern will let you push the size limits of your lathe a bit better than the others. A block tool post works better if you have a small number of tools you usually use, and a QCTP is is best for high volume production work on complex parts.?
?
One advantage to the lantern post is that you can forge specialty tools in a high carbon tool steel and get incredibly sharp edges for tricky work. With a couple hundred years of fantastic work to back it up. ;)?
?
Blocks & QCTPs are more convenient but not quite as versatile. Which is best depends on what you need to do. And you can still do good work even if you don't have the best toolpost. It's probably going to be a bit slower, but still doable. I put a QCTP
on my Atlas TH42 when I bought it, but kept the lantern post. And if I ever get my SB Heavy 10L restored, it's getting a QCTP also, but I'll be keeping the lantern post too.? Never can tell when you might need a bit more reach.
?
Bill in OKC?
?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
?
?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
?
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
?
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
?
?
?
?
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 02:00:35 AM CST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:
?
?
Why are people still using lanterns?? Get yourself a chunk of square steel, hold in 4 jaw, hole through the middle, clamp down on top of compound, milling cutter in chuck, 8 tapped holes & you've got a 4 way that holds any sort of tool.? This assumes you don't
want to lay out �?$ on a QCTP.
?
Eddie
?
Snip!
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Indexable carbide insert turning tools
I get the messages under several email addresses. Some of them show it properly. Some don't.? Glad you could read it. And that you agree with me. :) Some folks do fine with just one toolpost. Others can make good use of more than one. There are a few that can't do anything worth a darn regardless. I was one of those for a while, myself. ;)
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 11:10:46 AM CST, Robert Bradley <rcbradley@...> wrote:
Got it all the first time.? Agree that more toolposts make the lathe more versatile.
Well crud. If you are even remotely interested in reading my polemic on toolposts, you'd have to hit the "show trimmed text" or just read the quoted text here...?
Somehow trimming the 4 or 5 previous quoted messages trimmed my text too. Maybe I should stop doing this on my phone?
:)
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 07:39:39 AM CST, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
Because lanterns work better for some things. And Blocks work better for some other things, so you should have one of those, too. Likewise a QCTP and lots of tool holders to fit it. Depends on what you're doing as to which is best.?
Lantern will let you push the size limits of your lathe a bit better than the others. A block tool post works better if you have a small number of tools you usually use, and a QCTP is is best for high volume production work on complex parts.?
One advantage to the lantern post is that you can forge specialty tools in a high carbon tool steel and get incredibly sharp edges for tricky work. With a couple hundred years of fantastic work to back it up. ;)?
Blocks & QCTPs are more convenient but not quite as versatile. Which is best depends on what you need to do. And you can still do good work even if you don't have the best toolpost. It's probably going to be a bit slower, but still doable. I put a QCTP
on my Atlas TH42 when I bought it, but kept the lantern post. And if I ever get my SB Heavy 10L restored, it's getting a QCTP also, but I'll be keeping the lantern post too.? Never can tell when you might need a bit more reach.
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 02:00:35 AM CST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:
Why are people still using lanterns?? Get yourself a chunk of square steel, hold in 4 jaw, hole through the middle, clamp down on top of compound, milling cutter in chuck, 8 tapped holes & you've got a 4 way that holds any sort of tool.? This assumes you don't
want to lay out �?$ on a QCTP.
Eddie
Snip!
|
Payson
Bill in OKC too
ww_big_al
