Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
??? ??? Could you put a cutoff wheel in your surface grinder
& work it that way ?
??? ??? animal
On 2/28/2023 7:23 PM, Rogan Creswick
wrote:
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I'm not good enough with an angle grinder to manage
a 0.190" cut, but I can get close with my bandsaw (aside from
cutting the back; I can kerf a lot of it out, then clean up with
the southbend "horizontal mill", which seems like the best
option at this point).
I can't easily get the mill back together easily because
the reason I'm taking it apart is to repair the "front" gears
-- the bearings are totally shot (to the point of almost
seizing up) and this part is necessary to run the *back*
gears. If I really have to I can repair the bearings in the
mill, so that I can use it without the back gears, but this
seems like a part I should be able to make with what I do have
working right now, so I thought I'd give it a shot. So far I
don't think this is significantly harder than re-assembling
the top half of the mill head, remounting it, tramming
everything in, an then tearing it down again.
--Rogan
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:03
PM ww_big_al < arknack@...>
wrote:
Another thought is to use a angle
grinder to rough out the shape. With a cutoff wheel
& grinding wheel, you can rough it out quickly.
Then finish it on the lathe or mill. Is there and way
you could cob up the mill for this job?
Al
?
?
I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot,
0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and
it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it
on the mill.
I don't think the
tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it
to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the
part I'm replacing.
Anyway, this is the setup I'm
thinking of using -- setting the height relative
to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels,
gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form
of shims / spacers.
I'm interested in hearing other
suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as
guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting
some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last
night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on
the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per
minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast
enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but
maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do
the finish cuts this way.
Maybe I should be doing a
series of plunge cuts, though? How much
longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a
4-jaw?
Here's a link to a video that
may better show the setup:?
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
I'm not good enough with an angle grinder to manage a 0.190" cut, but I can get close with my bandsaw (aside from cutting the back; I can kerf a lot of it out, then clean up with the southbend "horizontal mill", which seems like the best option at this point).
I can't easily get the mill back together easily because the reason I'm taking it apart is to repair the "front" gears -- the bearings are totally shot (to the point of almost seizing up) and this part is necessary to run the *back* gears. If I really have to I can repair the bearings in the mill, so that I can use it without the back gears, but this seems like a part I should be able to make with what I do have working right now, so I thought I'd give it a shot. So far I don't think this is significantly harder than re-assembling the top half of the mill head, remounting it, tramming everything in, an then tearing it down again.
--Rogan
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:03 PM ww_big_al < arknack@...> wrote: Another thought is to use a angle grinder to rough out the shape. With a cutoff wheel & grinding wheel, you can rough it out quickly. Then finish it on the lathe or mill. Is there and way you could cob up the mill for this job? Al ? ? I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot, 0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it on the mill. I don't think the tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the part I'm replacing. Anyway, this is the setup I'm thinking of using -- setting the height relative to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels, gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form of shims / spacers. I'm interested in hearing other suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do the finish cuts this way. Maybe I should be doing a series of plunge cuts, though? How much longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a 4-jaw? Here's a link to a video that may better show the setup:?
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
Another thought is to use a angle grinder to rough out the shape. With a cutoff wheel & grinding wheel, you can rough it out quickly. Then finish it on the lathe or mill. Is there and way you could cob up the mill for this job? Al ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Rogan Creswick Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 6:53 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup) ? I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot, 0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it on the mill. I don't think the tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the part I'm replacing. Anyway, this is the setup I'm thinking of using -- setting the height relative to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels, gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form of shims / spacers. I'm interested in hearing other suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do the finish cuts this way. Maybe I should be doing a series of plunge cuts, though? How much longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a 4-jaw? Here's a link to a video that may better show the setup:?
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
I don't know what the original part is made of -- maybe an aluminum casting? I think more likely some pot metal, though. It is not magnetic, so it's not cast iron / steel, and it will just crumble in your fingers.
I thought this bit of scrap I'm using was cast iron, based on the chip formation, but it doesn't rust as quickly as cast iron, and I noticed a scribe mark that looks like A2 on one face, so maybe it's that.? In any case, that's what I'm using -- it's a shifting shoe to move the reversing pinion into place.? It'll be living it a bath of gear oil or grease (different discussion, that), and for the hours I'll put on this machine I'm sure it'll be just fine.
All of my endmill holders are for the mill, they're R8 taper -- I hadn't considered getting any for the lathe, but that's an idea I'll have to consider.? I'd rather not for just this job, but if I need to do more work like this that'd certainly be worth it.? Most of the time I have?a bridgeport clone (made by JET) at hand, so this isn't a problem :).
--Rogan
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 6:34 PM Bill in OKC too via <wmrmeyers= [email protected]> wrote: That is a good idea! Remove as much material as possible, and take all the load off the end mill you can.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 08:03:40 PM CST, James Bishop < bishopaj@...> wrote:
You could consider drilling out the bulk of the material. Either a series of holes across the width of the slot, or one or two holes in the side down the length of it.? On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 3:53 PM Rogan Creswick < creswick@...> wrote: I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot, 0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it on the mill.
I don't think the tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the part I'm replacing.
Anyway, this is the setup I'm thinking of using -- setting the height relative to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels, gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form of shims / spacers.
I'm interested in hearing other suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do the finish cuts this way.
Maybe I should be doing a series of plunge cuts, though? How much longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a 4-jaw?
Here's a link to a video that may better show the setup:?
Thanks! --Rogan
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
That is a good idea! Remove as much material as possible, and take all the load off the end mill you can.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 08:03:40 PM CST, James Bishop <bishopaj@...> wrote:
You could consider drilling out the bulk of the material. Either a series of holes across the width of the slot, or one or two holes in the side down the length of it.?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 3:53 PM Rogan Creswick < creswick@...> wrote: I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot, 0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it on the mill.
I don't think the tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the part I'm replacing.
Anyway, this is the setup I'm thinking of using -- setting the height relative to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels, gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form of shims / spacers.
I'm interested in hearing other suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do the finish cuts this way.
Maybe I should be doing a series of plunge cuts, though? How much longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a 4-jaw?
Here's a link to a video that may better show the setup:?
Thanks! --Rogan
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
Do you have an end mill holder that will fit the spindle of your lathe? If so, use that! If not you could make or buy one relatively cheaply. I've got one that has a MT3 taper, got it for my HF 7x10 mini, kept it when I sold off the mini-lathe a year or so ago, since it also fits the spindle on my Atlas TH42, and the spindle adapter for my SB Heavy 10L. You can get them from Shars, CDCO Tools, Little Machine Shop (where I got mine), and probably many other places. If you're anywhere near OKC, Steve's Wholesale Tools had two of them in the precision tool cabinet a week or so ago at the Sante Fe store. Call it $28+tax, I think. Similar to this:?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 05:53:21 PM CST, Rogan Creswick <creswick@...> wrote:
I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot, 0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it on the mill.
I don't think the tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the part I'm replacing.
Anyway, this is the setup I'm thinking of using -- setting the height relative to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels, gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form of shims / spacers.
I'm interested in hearing other suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do the finish cuts this way.
Maybe I should be doing a series of plunge cuts, though? How much longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a 4-jaw?
Here's a link to a video that may better show the setup:?
Thanks! --Rogan
|
Wow , I had no idea that you could get large dials on a C , was
that a option ?
??? ??? animal
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On 2/28/2023 5:38 PM, Stephen Bartlett via groups.io wrote: If you are referring to my 9C, both dials are large but the compound
dial, original, is graduated in two-thousandths, so one division
equals diameter removed.? The newer, cross feed dial is graduated in
one thousandth, equal to cross slide movement.
It has never bothered me.? The divisions on the compound dial are
physically twice the size of those on the cross slide dial, so when I
look at them I know which I am looking at.
Steve Bartlett
From: mike allen
I'm envious of the large dials you have . I managed to find a
SB owner that was passing forward some of the help he had gotten from
other SB owners & he sold me a large crossfeed dial along with lead
screw & both nuts for? $25.00 . I'm hoping to find another guy like
that so I can hopefully get a large dial for m compound . One of these
days .
??????? animal
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
You could consider drilling out the bulk of the material. Either a series of holes across the width of the slot, or one or two holes in the side down the length of it.?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 3:53 PM Rogan Creswick < creswick@...> wrote: I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot, 0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it on the mill.
I don't think the tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the part I'm replacing.
Anyway, this is the setup I'm thinking of using -- setting the height relative to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels, gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form of shims / spacers.
I'm interested in hearing other suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do the finish cuts this way.
Maybe I should be doing a series of plunge cuts, though? How much longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a 4-jaw?
Here's a link to a video that may better show the setup:?
Thanks! --Rogan
|
If you are referring to my 9C, both dials are large but the compound dial, original, is graduated in two-thousandths, so one division equals diameter removed. The newer, cross feed dial is graduated in one thousandth, equal to cross slide movement.
It has never bothered me. The divisions on the compound dial are physically twice the size of those on the cross slide dial, so when I look at them I know which I am looking at.
Steve Bartlett
From: mike allen
I'm envious of the large dials you have . I managed to find a
SB owner that was passing forward some of the help he had gotten from
other SB owners & he sold me a large crossfeed dial along with lead
screw & both nuts for $25.00 . I'm hoping to find another guy like
that so I can hopefully get a large dial for m compound . One of these
days .
animal
|
Animal, the steel in those old irons are superior to the steel in modern ones. Under magnification, the old irons look like a mountain range, but they will make shavings you can read through. The added weight from the thickness of the castings
are helpful driving the plane through wood.? Unless you can afford Houck or Japanese irons, those old planes are great.
Steven?
Get
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??? ??? Except for a thumb plane all my planes are 75+ years old . I'd probably fight using some of my " jointing plane's " these days .
??? ??? animal
On 2/28/2023 2:59 PM, Rick wrote:
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 09:39 AM, Andrei wrote:
If I use it, it is not collectable. If I stick it in a glass cabinet to gawk at, it is collectable. People have some severely misguided ideas about what is and what is not collectable in this world. Of course, I don't care. It is their money and time they are
spending. I just learned that I own a little more common sense when it comes to practical things.?
?
Just because something is collectible, does not preclude me from using it. I restore antique motorbikes from the 1930¡¯s-50¡¯s, that doesn¡¯t mean I don¡¯t ride them.
?
|
Re: A very different T-Nut.
Very nice account Jim. I have had a similar exoerience - buying special tool, waiting etc. and finaly making my own 'mock-up' that worked just fine. Any way, Jim I really enjoyed that and your other MG escapades as well. Ray
On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 01:41:34 PM PST, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:
I dug up this old project up. I had to modify it to include the pictures. Originally they were on photo bucket.?
I thought it might be of interest.?
Hope it comes through.?
Dr. James A Benjamin 1629 Riverview Drive. Apt 416 Deerfield Beach, FL 33441
-- Jim B
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Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
So it is cast iron.?
Have you thought about making the larger flat section, all the way across the bottom, out of a single piece of steel, perhaps cutting out the half round with a metal hole saw. Then take another block of steel and machining the part that sticks up. Then bolt/weld the two pieces together.? This is probably not what you want as a final fix but it should provide a good replacement to get the mill up and running again.? I don't know what bounds you have around the part but making it in two pieces might be a good option,
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
What is the broken piece made of?? If cast iron, welding might not be feasible. If steel, it could be welded up enough to reuse to make a new piece. You might be able to weld it back together but I suspect some of the welds would need to be machined, like at the right where the slot is, and this could be hard on the lathe and hard to hold in place during machining.
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
Oh, I'm only planning on milling the little slot with this setup -- the big step I'll definitely cut out with a bandsaw, and the more intricate cutaways / curved bits are not necessary features, I think that's just material savings from the production casting.
I have a surface grinder that I can use to get a precision thickness on the big step, but I can't cut a slot with it :D?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 4:42 PM tgerbic < tgerbic@...> wrote: It will probably take a lot of time to mill this and put quite a bit of stress on the lathe. That is a lot of material to remove. I would suggest you do some layout and either bandsaw or hacksaw away as much steel as possible, leaving a small amount to mill away with better precision. Due to the amount of curved surfaces, a lot of filing will be required.
Alternately, you may be able to cut/bolt/weld together a bunch of rough pieces of metal to make a temporary replacement and use the mill to make the actual replacement. I would probably take this route.
|
I'm envious of the large dials you have . I managed to find a
SB owner that was passing forward some of the help he had gotten from
other SB owners & he sold me a large crossfeed dial along with lead
screw & both nuts for? $25.00 . I'm hoping to find another? guy like
that so I can hopefully get a large dial for m compound . One of these
days .
??? ??? animal
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Show quoted text
On 2/28/2023 3:07 PM, Stephen Bartlett via groups.io wrote: I bought this 9C lathe about 1970,? Its only tool holder was the South
Bend 8 In 1, I think it
was called.? Miserable thing to work with as it sat (and rocked) on
two dog point set screws.
I needed a tee nut for the compound rest and had some steel bar
available.? It was a quick job to hack off two pieces, drill,
countersink and tap to fasten them together, then I threaded a piece
of scrap rod for the post.? I have been using it ever since.
It is not a precision fit, but it has done the job well.
I found a lantern tool holder and hated it.? Finally bought an
inexpensive post as shown, from Wholesale Tools, along with an
assortment of holders.? That is about the best thing I have put on the
lathe.
It has two different dials because it came with a compound rest but no
cross slide or cross slide screw.? I bought those from a local SB
dealer and by then they had changed.? I have had no trouble working
with the two different dials.
Steve Bartlett
|
Re: Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
It will probably take a lot of time to mill this and put quite a bit of stress on the lathe. That is a lot of material to remove. I would suggest you do some layout and either bandsaw or hacksaw away as much steel as possible, leaving a small amount to mill away with better precision. Due to the amount of curved surfaces, a lot of filing will be required.
Alternately, you may be able to cut/bolt/weld together a bunch of rough pieces of metal to make a temporary replacement and use the mill to make the actual replacement. I would probably take this route.
|
??? ??? Except for a thumb plane all my planes are 75+ years old
. I'd probably fight using some of my " jointing plane's " these
days .
??? ??? animal
On 2/28/2023 2:59 PM, Rick wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 09:39 AM, Andrei wrote:
If I use it, it is not
collectable. If I stick it in a glass cabinet to gawk at, it
is collectable. People have some severely misguided ideas
about what is and what is not collectable in this world. Of
course, I don't care. It is their money and time they are
spending. I just learned that I own a little more common sense
when it comes to practical things.?
?
Just because something is collectible, does not preclude me from
using it. I restore antique motorbikes from the 1930¡¯s-50¡¯s, that
doesn¡¯t mean I don¡¯t ride them.
?
|
Milling on the lathe w/out a milling attachment (rate my setup)
I need to cut a 0.190" wide slot, 0.300" deep in a ~1.75" wide chunk of steel, and it's a part for my milling machine, so I can't do it on the mill.
I don't think the tolerances?are particularly tight, but I'd like it to be as close as I can reasonably get it to the part I'm replacing.
Anyway, this is the setup I'm thinking of using -- setting the height relative to the spindle?with either adjustable parallels, gauge blocks, machinist screws, or some other form of shims / spacers.
I'm interested in hearing other suggestions -- I may just use some HSS toolbits as guides and do it with a file (likely pre-cutting some kerfs with a bandsaw).? My test cuts last night were pretty slow (0.015" DOC, top speed on the lathe, and feeding by hand at about 0.5" per minute), I don't think I can run the spindle fast enough for the 3/16" endmill I'd need to use, but maybe I can rough it out with files / saws and do the finish cuts this way.
Maybe I should be doing a series of plunge cuts, though? How much longitudinal force can I put on an endmill in a 4-jaw?
Here's a link to a video that may better show the setup:?
Thanks! --Rogan
|
I bought this 9C lathe about 1970, Its only tool holder was the South Bend 8 In 1, I think it
was called. Miserable thing to work with as it sat (and rocked) on two dog point set screws.
I needed a tee nut for the compound rest and had some steel bar available. It was a quick job to hack off two pieces, drill, countersink and tap to fasten them together, then I threaded a piece of scrap rod for the post. I have been using it ever since.
It is not a precision fit, but it has done the job well.
I found a lantern tool holder and hated it. Finally bought an inexpensive post as shown, from Wholesale Tools, along with an assortment of holders. That is about the best thing I have put on the lathe.
It has two different dials because it came with a compound rest but no cross slide or cross slide screw. I bought those from a local SB dealer and by then they had changed. I have had no trouble working with the two different dials.
Steve Bartlett
|
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 09:39 AM, Andrei wrote:
If I use it, it is not collectable. If I stick it in a glass cabinet to gawk at, it is collectable. People have some severely misguided ideas about what is and what is not collectable in this world. Of course, I don't care. It is their money and time they are spending. I just learned that I own a little more common sense when it comes to practical things.?
?
Just because something is collectible, does not preclude me from using it. I restore antique motorbikes from the 1930¡¯s-50¡¯s, that doesn¡¯t mean I don¡¯t ride them.
?
|
ww_big_al
Bill in OKC too
