That's a good looking job you did.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hey Guys,
First thing, and not that it matters much, but you guys sure do roam off the subject at hand.?
Second, did the whole thing on the lathe as it was the most convenient.? Turned the T, as well as a new post with imperial threads and an associated washer.? (Photos below)
Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice.? Now back to the mill to make a spare set of t-nuts for the mill.
Greg
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 04:57:22 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? My oldest son & his GF at the time took a lock picking class some where in the Bay Area @ 6-7 years back . I was the guy at work that they called on to unlock offices & desk's when folks left their keys at home . Those old master locks that has the
same tabs on both sides of the key were the easiest padlock to get opened . Now a days I'm not so sure that is a good characteristic to have
animal
On 2/27/2023 12:27 PM, Nick Andrews wrote:
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.? Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key
was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...>
wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers , a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they worked.? Then, reassemble
and return the lock.? These were American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85% of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels, etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to fit was not
that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to a vise at the time, so held the blank in my
hand while cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST, Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...> wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show that both sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two short lengths of appropriate sized bar can easily be screwed and glued together
to make a proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit in the slot. You may need to do a little scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks by similar screwing and gluing methods from stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut, stud and tightening
lever so swopping was simple matter of half a turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple block posts is the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such things. A quick contemplation of relative costs of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap import days, rapidly resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the swopping block system meant I could have simply measured tool heights on the bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or make your own from scratch. For the inexperienced making and modifying is harder than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly co-planar if things are to hold properly. If they aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail is that any decent toolpost will have a recess in the centre so the gripping forces are applied towards the outer sides of the post giving decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential for lathes having
a fixed stud where, over time, the centre of the slide around the stud will be pulled up under tightening stresses so only a narrow ring around the stud would actually grip properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common palliative advice is a thin card, pure
aluminium or soft copper washer. These compress under stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly distorted by previous owners using a T nut barely bigger than the recess in the base of
the Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full length of the slot in the compound ensuring all loads are properly distributed minimising the chance of distortion and holding the toolpost firmly without resorting to over tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is something you will have checked and attended to before putting a new-to-me lathe into service. With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots are also
bar stock size) a moderate pull on a simple tube spanner with a pair of short handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each side keeps the post stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hey Guys,
First thing, and not that it matters much, but you guys sure do roam off the subject at hand.?
Second, did the whole thing on the lathe as it was the most convenient.? Turned the T, as well as a new post with imperial threads and an associated washer.? (Photos below)
Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice.? Now back to the mill to make a spare set of t-nuts for the mill.
Greg
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 04:57:22 PM CST, mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? My oldest son & his GF at the time took a lock
picking class some where in the Bay Area @ 6-7 years back . I was
the guy at work that they called on to unlock offices & desk's
when folks left their keys at home . Those old master locks that
has the same tabs on both sides of the key were the easiest
padlock to get opened . Now a days I'm not so sure that is a good
characteristic to have
animal
On 2/27/2023 12:27 PM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock
every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.?
Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different
angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key
was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry
key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at
1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...>
wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the
dryers , a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding
open padlocks on campus for various gates and doors,
borrowing them, opening up the cores and, using needle
files, hand filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or
wherever until they worked.? Then, reassemble and
return the lock.? These were American locks with
swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended up with a
few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam
tunnels, etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some
apartments I lived in briefly where laundry was
supposed to be included but they thought it fine to
place coin op machines there, so definitely NOT
included.? Holding a small key blank to file to fit
was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a
t-nut like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw,
and files. A Sharpie for layout dye, and a
scratch awl for marking out. Took me about 4
hours. Didn't even have access to a vise at
the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no
slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to
have to do that again, but it's done and works
nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt,
USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from
experience. Experience comes
from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is
because I've done it wrong enough
times to START to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30
AM CST, Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I
prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts
to fit QC and block type toolposts is a
hardy perennial on forums and internet
chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions
table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show
that both sections of the compound Tee
slot are nicely sized to accept standard
steel bar sections. Two short lengths of
appropriate sized bar can easily be
screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very
nice fit in the slot. You may need to do
a little scraping inside to clear
accumulated grot and oil varnish.
Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for
the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I
once owned I used a pair of
countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive
to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12
thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all
threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way
toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC
system. Made the blocks by similar
screwing and gluing methods from stock
plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine
for the centre bit. Each block got its
own T-nut, stud and tightening lever so
swopping was simple matter of half a
turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot
blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has
serious porcupine properties!
Disadvantage of simple block posts is
the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of
relative costs of a QC system to mine in
those, pre cheap import days, rapidly
resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a
decade ago when my last Southbend, the
Heavy 10, had been gone for almost as
long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have
simply measured tool heights on the
bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole
T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the
supplier or make your own from scratch.
For the inexperienced making and
modifying is harder than it sounds. The
two lips must be exactly co-planar if
things are to hold properly. If they
aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft
ignored detail is that any decent
toolpost will have a recess in the
centre so the gripping forces are
applied towards the outer sides of the
post giving decent mechanical advantage.
Primarily essential for lathes having a
fixed stud where, over time, the centre
of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so
only a narrow ring around the stud would
actually grip properly on a flat bottom
tool post. Common palliative advice is a
thin card, pure aluminium or soft copper
washer. These compress under stress
enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the
compound of my big P&W Model B was
spectacularly distorted by previous
owners using a T nut barely bigger than
the recess in the base of the Dickson QC
post. Resorting to ever longer spanners
seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I
needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the
top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over
the full length of the slot in the
compound ensuring all loads are properly
distributed minimising the chance of
distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over
tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is
truly flat. Naturally this is something
you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into
service. With the P&W T-slot top now
properly flat and a full length T-nut
fitted (P&W T-slots are also bar
stock size) a moderate pull on a simple
tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide,
extending each side keeps the post
stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Hey Guys,
First thing, and not that it matters much, but you guys sure do roam off the subject at hand.?
Second, did the whole thing on the lathe as it was the most convenient.? Turned the T, as well as a new post with imperial threads and an associated washer.? (Photos below)
Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice.? Now back to the mill to make a spare set of t-nuts for the mill.
Greg
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 04:57:22 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? My oldest son & his GF at the time took a lock
picking class some where in the Bay Area @ 6-7 years back . I was
the guy at work that they called on to unlock offices & desk's
when folks left their keys at home . Those old master locks that
has the same tabs on both sides of the key were the easiest
padlock to get opened . Now a days I'm not so sure that is a good
characteristic to have
animal
On 2/27/2023 12:27 PM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock
every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.?
Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different
angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key
was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry
key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at
1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...>
wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the
dryers , a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding
open padlocks on campus for various gates and doors,
borrowing them, opening up the cores and, using needle
files, hand filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or
wherever until they worked.? Then, reassemble and
return the lock.? These were American locks with
swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended up with a
few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam
tunnels, etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some
apartments I lived in briefly where laundry was
supposed to be included but they thought it fine to
place coin op machines there, so definitely NOT
included.? Holding a small key blank to file to fit
was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a
t-nut like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw,
and files. A Sharpie for layout dye, and a
scratch awl for marking out. Took me about 4
hours. Didn't even have access to a vise at
the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no
slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to
have to do that again, but it's done and works
nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt,
USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from
experience. Experience comes
from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is
because I've done it wrong enough
times to START to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30
AM CST, Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I
prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts
to fit QC and block type toolposts is a
hardy perennial on forums and internet
chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions
table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show
that both sections of the compound Tee
slot are nicely sized to accept standard
steel bar sections. Two short lengths of
appropriate sized bar can easily be
screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very
nice fit in the slot. You may need to do
a little scraping inside to clear
accumulated grot and oil varnish.
Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for
the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I
once owned I used a pair of
countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive
to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12
thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all
threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way
toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC
system. Made the blocks by similar
screwing and gluing methods from stock
plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine
for the centre bit. Each block got its
own T-nut, stud and tightening lever so
swopping was simple matter of half a
turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot
blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has
serious porcupine properties!
Disadvantage of simple block posts is
the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of
relative costs of a QC system to mine in
those, pre cheap import days, rapidly
resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a
decade ago when my last Southbend, the
Heavy 10, had been gone for almost as
long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have
simply measured tool heights on the
bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole
T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the
supplier or make your own from scratch.
For the inexperienced making and
modifying is harder than it sounds. The
two lips must be exactly co-planar if
things are to hold properly. If they
aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft
ignored detail is that any decent
toolpost will have a recess in the
centre so the gripping forces are
applied towards the outer sides of the
post giving decent mechanical advantage.
Primarily essential for lathes having a
fixed stud where, over time, the centre
of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so
only a narrow ring around the stud would
actually grip properly on a flat bottom
tool post. Common palliative advice is a
thin card, pure aluminium or soft copper
washer. These compress under stress
enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the
compound of my big P&W Model B was
spectacularly distorted by previous
owners using a T nut barely bigger than
the recess in the base of the Dickson QC
post. Resorting to ever longer spanners
seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I
needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the
top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over
the full length of the slot in the
compound ensuring all loads are properly
distributed minimising the chance of
distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over
tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is
truly flat. Naturally this is something
you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into
service. With the P&W T-slot top now
properly flat and a full length T-nut
fitted (P&W T-slots are also bar
stock size) a moderate pull on a simple
tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide,
extending each side keeps the post
stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
??? ??? My oldest son & his GF at the time took a lock
picking class some where in the Bay Area @ 6-7 years back . I was
the guy at work that they called on to unlock offices & desk's
when folks left their keys at home . Those old master locks that
has the same tabs on both sides of the key were the easiest
padlock to get opened . Now a days I'm not so sure that is a good
characteristic to have
animal
On 2/27/2023 12:27 PM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock
every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.?
Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different
angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key
was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry
key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at
1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...>
wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the
dryers , a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding
open padlocks on campus for various gates and doors,
borrowing them, opening up the cores and, using needle
files, hand filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or
wherever until they worked.? Then, reassemble and
return the lock.? These were American locks with
swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended up with a
few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam
tunnels, etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some
apartments I lived in briefly where laundry was
supposed to be included but they thought it fine to
place coin op machines there, so definitely NOT
included.? Holding a small key blank to file to fit
was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a
t-nut like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw,
and files. A Sharpie for layout dye, and a
scratch awl for marking out. Took me about 4
hours. Didn't even have access to a vise at
the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no
slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to
have to do that again, but it's done and works
nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt,
USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from
experience. Experience comes
from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is
because I've done it wrong enough
times to START to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30
AM CST, Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I
prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts
to fit QC and block type toolposts is a
hardy perennial on forums and internet
chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions
table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show
that both sections of the compound Tee
slot are nicely sized to accept standard
steel bar sections. Two short lengths of
appropriate sized bar can easily be
screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very
nice fit in the slot. You may need to do
a little scraping inside to clear
accumulated grot and oil varnish.
Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for
the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I
once owned I used a pair of
countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive
to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12
thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all
threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way
toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC
system. Made the blocks by similar
screwing and gluing methods from stock
plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine
for the centre bit. Each block got its
own T-nut, stud and tightening lever so
swopping was simple matter of half a
turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot
blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has
serious porcupine properties!
Disadvantage of simple block posts is
the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of
relative costs of a QC system to mine in
those, pre cheap import days, rapidly
resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a
decade ago when my last Southbend, the
Heavy 10, had been gone for almost as
long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have
simply measured tool heights on the
bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole
T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the
supplier or make your own from scratch.
For the inexperienced making and
modifying is harder than it sounds. The
two lips must be exactly co-planar if
things are to hold properly. If they
aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft
ignored detail is that any decent
toolpost will have a recess in the
centre so the gripping forces are
applied towards the outer sides of the
post giving decent mechanical advantage.
Primarily essential for lathes having a
fixed stud where, over time, the centre
of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so
only a narrow ring around the stud would
actually grip properly on a flat bottom
tool post. Common palliative advice is a
thin card, pure aluminium or soft copper
washer. These compress under stress
enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the
compound of my big P&W Model B was
spectacularly distorted by previous
owners using a T nut barely bigger than
the recess in the base of the Dickson QC
post. Resorting to ever longer spanners
seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I
needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the
top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over
the full length of the slot in the
compound ensuring all loads are properly
distributed minimising the chance of
distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over
tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is
truly flat. Naturally this is something
you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into
service. With the P&W T-slot top now
properly flat and a full length T-nut
fitted (P&W T-slots are also bar
stock size) a moderate pull on a simple
tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide,
extending each side keeps the post
stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
I have not tried an RV place! Thanks for the suggestion! Did look at mobile home stuff, but they're not the same, ether.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 02:38:49 PM CST, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
Have you tried an RV place for some new locks?? Usually they aren't the most durable or secure ones used on such things, and you most likely can find replacements online.? Or machine a new key blank in brass!
I cannot doubt that! Thinking of taking an impression of it in wax or clay, then making a casting in brass or aluminum. It's a tiny little thing with 1 narrow and 1 wide groove on one side, and another narrow groove on the opposite side. Only one side is notched. And those notches are worn smooth.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 02:28:13 PM CST, Nick Andrews < nickjandrews@...> wrote:
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.? Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers ,
a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open
padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing
them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand
filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they
worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were
American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended
up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels,
etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I
lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but
they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so
definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to
fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut
like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A
Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking
out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to
a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to
do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START
to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST,
Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the
t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit
QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial
on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in
"How to Run a Lathe" will show that both
sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely
sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two
short lengths of appropriate sized bar can
easily be screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit
in the slot. You may need to do a little
scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and
oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair
of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a
pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do
the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the
stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength
loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost
blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks
by similar screwing and gluing methods from
stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for
the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut,
stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple
matter of half a turn and side out. In
retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious
porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple
block posts is the need to shim tools to centre
height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of relative costs
of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap
import days, rapidly resolved any mild
resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last
Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have simply
measured tool heights on the bench with simple
jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut
situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or
make your own from scratch. For the
inexperienced making and modifying is harder
than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly
co-planar if things are to hold properly. If
they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and
soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail
is that any decent toolpost will have a recess
in the centre so the gripping forces are applied
towards the outer sides of the post giving
decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential
for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time,
the centre of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so only a
narrow ring around the stud would actually grip
properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common
palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium
or soft copper washer. These compress under
stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound
of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly
distorted by previous owners using a T nut
barely bigger than the recess in the base of the
Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer
spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed
my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut.
Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full
length of the slot in the compound ensuring all
loads are properly distributed minimising the
chance of distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over tightening and
drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of
the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is
something you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into service.
With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat
and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots
are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a
simple tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each
side keeps the post stable under even the
heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Have you tried an RV place for some new locks?? Usually they aren't the most durable or secure ones used on such things, and you most likely can find replacements online.? Or machine a new key blank in brass!
I cannot doubt that! Thinking of taking an impression of it in wax or clay, then making a casting in brass or aluminum. It's a tiny little thing with 1 narrow and 1 wide groove on one side, and another narrow groove on the opposite side. Only one side is notched. And those notches are worn smooth.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 02:28:13 PM CST, Nick Andrews < nickjandrews@...> wrote:
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.? Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers ,
a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open
padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing
them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand
filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they
worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were
American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended
up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels,
etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I
lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but
they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so
definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to
fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut
like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A
Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking
out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to
a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to
do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START
to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST,
Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the
t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit
QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial
on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in
"How to Run a Lathe" will show that both
sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely
sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two
short lengths of appropriate sized bar can
easily be screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit
in the slot. You may need to do a little
scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and
oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair
of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a
pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do
the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the
stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength
loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost
blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks
by similar screwing and gluing methods from
stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for
the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut,
stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple
matter of half a turn and side out. In
retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious
porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple
block posts is the need to shim tools to centre
height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of relative costs
of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap
import days, rapidly resolved any mild
resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last
Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have simply
measured tool heights on the bench with simple
jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut
situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or
make your own from scratch. For the
inexperienced making and modifying is harder
than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly
co-planar if things are to hold properly. If
they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and
soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail
is that any decent toolpost will have a recess
in the centre so the gripping forces are applied
towards the outer sides of the post giving
decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential
for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time,
the centre of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so only a
narrow ring around the stud would actually grip
properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common
palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium
or soft copper washer. These compress under
stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound
of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly
distorted by previous owners using a T nut
barely bigger than the recess in the base of the
Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer
spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed
my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut.
Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full
length of the slot in the compound ensuring all
loads are properly distributed minimising the
chance of distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over tightening and
drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of
the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is
something you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into service.
With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat
and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots
are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a
simple tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each
side keeps the post stable under even the
heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
I cannot doubt that! Thinking of taking an impression of it in wax or clay, then making a casting in brass or aluminum. It's a tiny little thing with 1 narrow and 1 wide groove on one side, and another narrow groove on the opposite side. Only one side is notched. And those notches are worn smooth.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 02:28:13 PM CST, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.? Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers ,
a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open
padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing
them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand
filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they
worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were
American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended
up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels,
etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I
lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but
they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so
definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to
fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut
like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A
Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking
out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to
a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to
do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START
to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST,
Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the
t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit
QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial
on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in
"How to Run a Lathe" will show that both
sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely
sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two
short lengths of appropriate sized bar can
easily be screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit
in the slot. You may need to do a little
scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and
oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair
of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a
pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do
the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the
stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength
loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost
blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks
by similar screwing and gluing methods from
stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for
the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut,
stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple
matter of half a turn and side out. In
retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious
porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple
block posts is the need to shim tools to centre
height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of relative costs
of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap
import days, rapidly resolved any mild
resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last
Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have simply
measured tool heights on the bench with simple
jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut
situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or
make your own from scratch. For the
inexperienced making and modifying is harder
than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly
co-planar if things are to hold properly. If
they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and
soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail
is that any decent toolpost will have a recess
in the centre so the gripping forces are applied
towards the outer sides of the post giving
decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential
for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time,
the centre of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so only a
narrow ring around the stud would actually grip
properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common
palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium
or soft copper washer. These compress under
stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound
of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly
distorted by previous owners using a T nut
barely bigger than the recess in the base of the
Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer
spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed
my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut.
Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full
length of the slot in the compound ensuring all
loads are properly distributed minimising the
chance of distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over tightening and
drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of
the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is
something you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into service.
With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat
and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots
are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a
simple tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each
side keeps the post stable under even the
heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Well at least you're not having to drill into your own safe because you left it sitting in the TX sun for a week and the thermal relocker melted and jammed the super high security combo lock you installed...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 1:57?PM Bill in OKC too via <wmrmeyers= [email protected]> wrote: Crap. You just reminded me again that I need spare keys for the camper shell on my old pickup truck. I have one useable key that I can find, now. I've taken it to a locksmith, and had no luck finding blanks. May have to try replacing the cylinders in the existing locks, IF I can find something that will interchange. Also need to make a new drawer for my tubular SB lathe stand that I got with my 1941 SB Heavy 10L, and find a lock for it. One drawer and lock was missing when I got it. Somewhere in my info stash is a small booklet from the CIA on make keys...?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 01:47:15 PM CST, mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers ,
a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open
padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing
them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand
filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they
worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were
American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended
up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels,
etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I
lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but
they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so
definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to
fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut
like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A
Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking
out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to
a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to
do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START
to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST,
Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the
t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit
QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial
on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in
"How to Run a Lathe" will show that both
sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely
sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two
short lengths of appropriate sized bar can
easily be screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit
in the slot. You may need to do a little
scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and
oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair
of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a
pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do
the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the
stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength
loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost
blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks
by similar screwing and gluing methods from
stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for
the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut,
stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple
matter of half a turn and side out. In
retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious
porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple
block posts is the need to shim tools to centre
height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of relative costs
of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap
import days, rapidly resolved any mild
resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last
Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have simply
measured tool heights on the bench with simple
jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut
situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or
make your own from scratch. For the
inexperienced making and modifying is harder
than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly
co-planar if things are to hold properly. If
they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and
soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail
is that any decent toolpost will have a recess
in the centre so the gripping forces are applied
towards the outer sides of the post giving
decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential
for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time,
the centre of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so only a
narrow ring around the stud would actually grip
properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common
palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium
or soft copper washer. These compress under
stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound
of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly
distorted by previous owners using a T nut
barely bigger than the recess in the base of the
Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer
spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed
my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut.
Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full
length of the slot in the compound ensuring all
loads are properly distributed minimising the
chance of distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over tightening and
drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of
the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is
something you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into service.
With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat
and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots
are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a
simple tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each
side keeps the post stable under even the
heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Well that one was a pain, as I had to pick the lock every 90 degree turn as it was one of those threaded rod style.? Using a rake, it wasn't bad just lots of repetition at different angles, while sitting on top of the machine.? But once the key was made, had a lot of new friends wanting to borrow the laundry key...
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 1:47?PM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers ,
a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open
padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing
them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand
filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they
worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were
American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended
up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels,
etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I
lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but
they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so
definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to
fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut
like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A
Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking
out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to
a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to
do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START
to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST,
Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the
t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit
QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial
on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in
"How to Run a Lathe" will show that both
sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely
sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two
short lengths of appropriate sized bar can
easily be screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit
in the slot. You may need to do a little
scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and
oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair
of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a
pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do
the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the
stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength
loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost
blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks
by similar screwing and gluing methods from
stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for
the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut,
stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple
matter of half a turn and side out. In
retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious
porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple
block posts is the need to shim tools to centre
height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of relative costs
of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap
import days, rapidly resolved any mild
resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last
Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have simply
measured tool heights on the bench with simple
jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut
situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or
make your own from scratch. For the
inexperienced making and modifying is harder
than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly
co-planar if things are to hold properly. If
they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and
soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail
is that any decent toolpost will have a recess
in the centre so the gripping forces are applied
towards the outer sides of the post giving
decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential
for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time,
the centre of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so only a
narrow ring around the stud would actually grip
properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common
palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium
or soft copper washer. These compress under
stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound
of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly
distorted by previous owners using a T nut
barely bigger than the recess in the base of the
Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer
spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed
my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut.
Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full
length of the slot in the compound ensuring all
loads are properly distributed minimising the
chance of distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over tightening and
drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of
the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is
something you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into service.
With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat
and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots
are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a
simple tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each
side keeps the post stable under even the
heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Crap. You just reminded me again that I need spare keys for the camper shell on my old pickup truck. I have one useable key that I can find, now. I've taken it to a locksmith, and had no luck finding blanks. May have to try replacing the cylinders in the existing locks, IF I can find something that will interchange. Also need to make a new drawer for my tubular SB lathe stand that I got with my 1941 SB Heavy 10L, and find a lock for it. One drawer and lock was missing when I got it. Somewhere in my info stash is a small booklet from the CIA on make keys...?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 01:47:15 PM CST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers ,
a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open
padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing
them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand
filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they
worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were
American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended
up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels,
etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I
lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but
they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so
definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to
fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut
like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A
Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking
out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to
a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to
do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START
to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST,
Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the
t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit
QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial
on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in
"How to Run a Lathe" will show that both
sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely
sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two
short lengths of appropriate sized bar can
easily be screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit
in the slot. You may need to do a little
scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and
oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair
of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a
pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do
the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the
stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength
loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost
blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks
by similar screwing and gluing methods from
stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for
the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut,
stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple
matter of half a turn and side out. In
retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious
porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple
block posts is the need to shim tools to centre
height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of relative costs
of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap
import days, rapidly resolved any mild
resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last
Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have simply
measured tool heights on the bench with simple
jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut
situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or
make your own from scratch. For the
inexperienced making and modifying is harder
than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly
co-planar if things are to hold properly. If
they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and
soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail
is that any decent toolpost will have a recess
in the centre so the gripping forces are applied
towards the outer sides of the post giving
decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential
for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time,
the centre of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so only a
narrow ring around the stud would actually grip
properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common
palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium
or soft copper washer. These compress under
stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound
of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly
distorted by previous owners using a T nut
barely bigger than the recess in the base of the
Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer
spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed
my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut.
Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full
length of the slot in the compound ensuring all
loads are properly distributed minimising the
chance of distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over tightening and
drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of
the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is
something you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into service.
With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat
and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots
are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a
simple tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each
side keeps the post stable under even the
heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
??? ??? The old push tabs from Coors cans worked in the dryers ,
a friend told me .
??? ??? animal
On 2/27/2023 11:16 AM, Nick Andrews
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open
padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing
them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand
filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they
worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were
American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended
up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85%
of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels,
etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I
lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but
they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so
definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to
fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut
like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A
Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking
out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to
a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while
cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to
do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER
GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The
only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START
to know better
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST,
Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...>
wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the
t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit
QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial
on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in
"How to Run a Lathe" will show that both
sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely
sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two
short lengths of appropriate sized bar can
easily be screwed and glued together to make a
proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit
in the slot. You may need to do a little
scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and
oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair
of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a
pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and
some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do
the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the
stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength
loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost
blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks
by similar screwing and gluing methods from
stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for
the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut,
stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple
matter of half a turn and side out. In
retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as
effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious
porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple
block posts is the need to shim tools to centre
height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such
things. A quick contemplation of relative costs
of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap
import days, rapidly resolved any mild
resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last
Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the
swopping block system meant I could have simply
measured tool heights on the bench with simple
jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut
situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or
make your own from scratch. For the
inexperienced making and modifying is harder
than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly
co-planar if things are to hold properly. If
they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and
soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail
is that any decent toolpost will have a recess
in the centre so the gripping forces are applied
towards the outer sides of the post giving
decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential
for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time,
the centre of the slide around the stud will be
pulled up under tightening stresses so only a
narrow ring around the stud would actually grip
properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common
palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium
or soft copper washer. These compress under
stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more
familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted
compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound
of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly
distorted by previous owners using a T nut
barely bigger than the recess in the base of the
Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer
spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one
in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed
my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut.
Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full
length of the slot in the compound ensuring all
loads are properly distributed minimising the
chance of distortion and holding the toolpost
firmly without resorting to over tightening and
drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of
the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is
something you will have checked and attended to
before putting a new-to-me lathe into service.
With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat
and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots
are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a
simple tube spanner with a pair of short
handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each
side keeps the post stable under even the
heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Filing is a useful skill to have. One of the exercises for apprentice machinists was to take a lump of iron, and file it into a 1" cube. Sort of a Sorting Hat for machinists. If you didn't have the patience to do the work, you weren't going to be a good apprentice. If you didn't have or couldn't develop the skill to do it, about the same things. I have not done that particular exercise myself, but Dad taught me to appreciate filing. He called files Mexican Milling Machines, and it was not a pejorative. They could take bits of scrap metal and make useful and necessary things. He admired people like that. He, and my maternal Grandpa taught how to learn how to do stuff.?
When my school threw out a bunch of files, I scavenged every one that no one else wanted. Got a bunch of other stuff, too, but there were three nice sharp Mill Bastard files with handles, among many other things. One of each of the big machines...?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 01:17:28 PM CST, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85% of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels, etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST, Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...> wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show that both sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two short lengths of appropriate sized bar can easily be screwed and glued together
to make a proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit in the slot. You may need to do a little scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks by similar screwing and gluing methods from stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut, stud and tightening
lever so swopping was simple matter of half a turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple block posts is the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such things. A quick contemplation of relative costs of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap import days, rapidly resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the swopping block system meant I could have simply measured tool heights on the bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or make your own from scratch. For the inexperienced making and modifying is harder than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly co-planar if things are to hold properly. If they aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail is that any decent toolpost will have a recess in the centre so the gripping forces are applied towards the outer sides of the post giving decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential for lathes having
a fixed stud where, over time, the centre of the slide around the stud will be pulled up under tightening stresses so only a narrow ring around the stud would actually grip properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common palliative advice is a thin card, pure
aluminium or soft copper washer. These compress under stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly distorted by previous owners using a T nut barely bigger than the recess in the base of
the Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full length of the slot in the compound ensuring all loads are properly distributed minimising the chance of distortion and holding the toolpost firmly without resorting to over tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is something you will have checked and attended to before putting a new-to-me lathe into service. With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots are also
bar stock size) a moderate pull on a simple tube spanner with a pair of short handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each side keeps the post stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Bill, that reminds me of back in college finding open padlocks on campus for various gates and doors, borrowing them, opening up the cores and, using needle files, hand filing key blanks obtained from Walmart or wherever until they worked.? Then, reassemble and return the lock.? These were American locks with swappable cores, easy enough to do.? Ended up with a few keys that opened (and likely still do) about 85% of the padlocks on campus.? So parking lots, steam tunnels, etc...
Also did the same for laundry machines at some apartments I lived in briefly where laundry was supposed to be included but they thought it fine to place coin op machines there, so definitely NOT included.? Holding a small key blank to file to fit was not that pleasant, even filing brass keys.
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST, Steven Schlegel < sc.schlegel@...> wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show that both sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two short lengths of appropriate sized bar can easily be screwed and glued together
to make a proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit in the slot. You may need to do a little scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks by similar screwing and gluing methods from stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut, stud and tightening
lever so swopping was simple matter of half a turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple block posts is the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such things. A quick contemplation of relative costs of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap import days, rapidly resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the swopping block system meant I could have simply measured tool heights on the bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or make your own from scratch. For the inexperienced making and modifying is harder than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly co-planar if things are to hold properly. If they aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail is that any decent toolpost will have a recess in the centre so the gripping forces are applied towards the outer sides of the post giving decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential for lathes having
a fixed stud where, over time, the centre of the slide around the stud will be pulled up under tightening stresses so only a narrow ring around the stud would actually grip properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common palliative advice is a thin card, pure
aluminium or soft copper washer. These compress under stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly distorted by previous owners using a T nut barely bigger than the recess in the base of
the Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full length of the slot in the compound ensuring all loads are properly distributed minimising the chance of distortion and holding the toolpost firmly without resorting to over tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is something you will have checked and attended to before putting a new-to-me lathe into service. With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots are also
bar stock size) a moderate pull on a simple tube spanner with a pair of short handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each side keeps the post stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
If all else fails, you can cut a t-nut like I did for my Atlas TH42. Hacksaw, and files. A Sharpie for layout dye, and a scratch awl for marking out. Took me about 4 hours. Didn't even have access to a vise at the time, so held the blank in my hand while cutting and filing on it. Nice sliding fit, no slop.?
Note that I would prefer not to have to do that again, but it's done and works nicely. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)?
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:42:30 AM CST, Steven Schlegel <sc.schlegel@...> wrote:
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show that both sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two short lengths of appropriate sized bar can easily be screwed and glued together
to make a proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit in the slot. You may need to do a little scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks by similar screwing and gluing methods from stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut, stud and tightening
lever so swopping was simple matter of half a turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple block posts is the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such things. A quick contemplation of relative costs of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap import days, rapidly resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the swopping block system meant I could have simply measured tool heights on the bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or make your own from scratch. For the inexperienced making and modifying is harder than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly co-planar if things are to hold properly. If they aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail is that any decent toolpost will have a recess in the centre so the gripping forces are applied towards the outer sides of the post giving decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential for lathes having
a fixed stud where, over time, the centre of the slide around the stud will be pulled up under tightening stresses so only a narrow ring around the stud would actually grip properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common palliative advice is a thin card, pure
aluminium or soft copper washer. These compress under stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly distorted by previous owners using a T nut barely bigger than the recess in the base of
the Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full length of the slot in the compound ensuring all loads are properly distributed minimising the chance of distortion and holding the toolpost firmly without resorting to over tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is something you will have checked and attended to before putting a new-to-me lathe into service. With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots are also
bar stock size) a moderate pull on a simple tube spanner with a pair of short handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each side keeps the post stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Excellent information! Thanks.
Now, if I could just remember how I prepared the t-nut on my SB9...
Get
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Show quoted text
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show that both sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two short lengths of appropriate sized bar can easily be screwed and glued together
to make a proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit in the slot. You may need to do a little scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the stud, sorry can't recall
which. High strength loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks by similar screwing and gluing methods from stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut, stud and tightening
lever so swopping was simple matter of half a turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple block posts is the need to shim tools to centre height.
As a Brit I can cope just fine with such things. A quick contemplation of relative costs of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap import days, rapidly resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for
almost as long, it occurred to me that the swopping block system meant I could have simply measured tool heights on the bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or make your own from scratch. For the inexperienced making and modifying is harder than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly co-planar if things are to hold properly. If they aren't the slot lips will be distorted
and soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail is that any decent toolpost will have a recess in the centre so the gripping forces are applied towards the outer sides of the post giving decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential for lathes having
a fixed stud where, over time, the centre of the slide around the stud will be pulled up under tightening stresses so only a narrow ring around the stud would actually grip properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common palliative advice is a thin card, pure
aluminium or soft copper washer. These compress under stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly distorted by previous owners using a T nut barely bigger than the recess in the base of
the Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full length of the slot in the compound ensuring all loads are properly distributed minimising the chance of distortion and holding the toolpost firmly without resorting to over tightening and drastic sized spanners.
This assumes the top of the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is something you will have checked and attended to before putting a new-to-me lathe into service. With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots are also
bar stock size) a moderate pull on a simple tube spanner with a pair of short handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each side keeps the post stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Re: Reverse tumbler Mod for a 9A
I made the mod in my home shop purely to save time. I face both ends on almost every project I work on. You need two hands to change the wrench tumbler, and since you normally switch between turning and facing...
Brandon
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On Feb 26, 2023, at 2:21 PM, Rick <vwrick@...> wrote:
Maybe in a production environment this saved some time, in a home shop situation, people do it purely for the sake of doing it.
|
The topic of getting or making T-nuts to fit QC and block type toolposts is a hardy perennial on forums and internet chat sites.
Reference to the Tooling Dimensions table in "How to Run a Lathe" will show that both sections of the compound Tee slot are nicely sized to accept standard steel bar sections. Two short lengths of appropriate sized bar can easily be screwed and glued together to make a proper full length T-nut that is a very nice fit in the slot. You may need to do a little scraping inside to clear accumulated grot and oil varnish. Possibly with added profanity.
Many years ago when I made several for the pair of 9" and Heavy 10 lathes I once owned I used a pair of countersunk?M6 socket hex screws and some sort of Loctite structural adhesive to do the gluing bit. Either M10 or M12 thread on the stud, sorry can't recall which. High strength loctite on all threads of course.
Back in those days I used several 4 way toolpost blocks as a poor boys QC system. Made the blocks by similar screwing and gluing methods from stock plate and bar sections. Alloy was fine for the centre bit. Each block got its own T-nut, stud and tightening lever so swopping was simple matter of half a turn and side out. In retrospect 2 slot blocks would have been just as effective. A fully loaded 4 slot has serious porcupine properties! Disadvantage of simple block posts is the need to shim tools to centre height. As a Brit I can cope just fine with such things. A quick contemplation of relative costs of a QC system to mine in those, pre cheap import days, rapidly resolved any mild resentment. Maybe a decade ago when my last Southbend, the Heavy 10, had been gone for almost as long, it occurred to me that the swopping block system meant I could have simply measured tool heights on the bench with simple jig.
It may be useful to review the whole T-nut situation.
Common advice is to modify what the supplier or make your own from scratch. For the inexperienced making and modifying is harder than it sounds. The two lips must be exactly co-planar if things are to hold properly. If they aren't the slot lips will be distorted and soon things will not hold. An oft ignored detail is that any decent toolpost will have a recess in the centre so the gripping forces are applied towards the outer sides of the post giving decent mechanical advantage. Primarily essential for lathes having a fixed stud where, over time, the centre of the slide around the stud will be pulled up under tightening stresses so only a narrow ring around the stud would actually grip properly on a flat bottom tool post. Common palliative advice is a thin card, pure aluminium or soft copper washer. These compress under stress enough to mostly spread the load.
Similar distortions happen with the more familiar, to SouthBend users, T- slotted compound. The top of the T-slot in the compound of my big P&W Model B was spectacularly distorted by previous owners using a T nut barely bigger than the recess in the base of the Dickson QC post. Resorting to ever longer spanners seemingly obscured the problem. The one in the swarf tray was over 2 ft long. I needed my 4 ft cheater bar to loosen the top nut. Yikes!?
In my view the T-nut should extend over the full length of the slot in the compound ensuring all loads are properly distributed minimising the chance of distortion and holding the toolpost firmly without resorting to over tightening and drastic sized spanners. This assumes the top of the toolpost is truly flat. Naturally this is something you will have checked and attended to before putting a new-to-me lathe into service. With the P&W T-slot top now properly flat and a full length T-nut fitted (P&W T-slots are also bar stock size) a moderate pull on a simple tube spanner with a pair of short handles, barely a handspan wide, extending each side keeps the post stable under even the heaviest of cuts.
Hope this helps.
Clive
|
Thank you for the offer, Don. I have milled a couple of these so I do not need your generous offer. FYI. I live in Michigan Al ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Don Verdiani via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 6:07 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Phase 2 Tool Post ? Al, where are you. I’ll be happy to mill it for you ? Don in Eastern PA
On Feb 26, 2023, at 3:48 PM, ww_big_al <arknack@...> wrote:
? The tee nut is deliberately left large so it can be fitted to your lathe. It is a metric thread on the P-2. I believe it is a M14 but not positive. I can measure mine if you want. It isn’t too hard to mill. You have a wide fitment tolerance for it. You can also file or grind it to fit. Al ? ? Hey Guys,
Just transitioning to my new-to-me Phase 2 tool post on my SB9c.? No way the t-nut that came with it will fit.? I see three options:
1. Re-mill the t-nut that came with the post.? My least preferred option as I am not completely comfortable with my Burke No. 4 yet.
2. Redrill and thread my existing t-nut to fit the Phase 2.? I do not know the thread pitch, and I am thinking it might be metric.? Any ideas on the size/pitch?
3. Make a new post to fit the Phase 2 that matches the thread size and pitch of my current t-nut, and replace the top nut to an imperial thread.? Leaning towards this.
Please share your thoughts, and if you know the specifications of the t-nut thread.
Thanks,
Greg
|
Thanks a lot guys.? I'll knock something out tomorrow, and post the result.
Greg
On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 06:48:04 PM CST, Rogan Creswick <creswick@...> wrote:
T-nuts are a great entry-level project on a mill; it sounds you like (or Al?) have a horizontal, just go for it!
The biggest problem I've had with milling T-nuts is getting the tolerances *too* tight, which is easy to fix.? If you can, measure with adjustable parallels, as they'll let you feel the fit with full contact across the machined casting, vs. a few point measurements with calipers or an ID mic. I measure with adjustable parallels on the bottom width, top width, bottom ("step") height, and use a depth mix for the total height.
Then take ~10-30 thou of of each of those dimensions.? They *all* need to be a bit short of measurement, and the height from the step to the top of the leg of the T is the only really important one.? The leg *cannot* protrude above the surface of the compound, or it's not a nut, it's just a spacer.
You can also use a lathe like a horizontal mill, and make one of these, but it's not ideal.? I'm making parts for my milling machine this way right now.... I'll share pictures when I'm further along in the process.
--Rogan
On Sun, Feb 26, 2023 at 4:04 PM Jim_B < jim@...> wrote: Yes the slab secures the QCTP. The stub centered it.? On Feb 26, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Rick <vwrick@...> wrote:
?On Sun, Feb 26, 2023 at 06:57 PM, Jim_B wrote:
In that picture, yes. That’s an Atlas. On a SB there is a stub.?
On Feb 26, 2023, at 6:52 PM, Rick <vwrick@...> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 26, 2023 at 06:44 PM, Jim_B wrote:
Here is a way to do it on a lathe.?
?
Don,
?
I do not believe that Al is in need to the milling.? I'm the one fitting the Phase 2 QCTP to my SB9c.? Al was just schooling me on an approach.? I appreciate the offer to do the milling, but sooner or later, I need to put on the "big boy pants" and take care of it myself. ;o)
?
Greg
?
ps: If I crash and burn, I mat take you up on the offer.
?
On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 05:07:07 PM CST, Don Verdiani via <dlverdiani= [email protected]> wrote: ?
?
Al, where are you. I’ll be happy to mill it for you ?
?
Don in Eastern PA
?
On Feb 26, 2023, at 3:48 PM, ww_big_al <arknack@...> wrote:
?
The tee nut is deliberately left large so it can be fitted to your lathe. It is a metric thread on the P-2. I believe it is a M14 but not positive. I can measure mine if you want. It isn’t too hard to mill. You have a wide fitment tolerance for it. You can also file or grind it to fit.
Al
?
?
Hey Guys,
Just transitioning to my new-to-me Phase 2 tool post on my SB9c.? No way the t-nut that came with it will fit.? I see three options:
1. Re-mill the t-nut that came with the post.? My least preferred option as I am not completely comfortable with my Burke No. 4 yet.
2. Redrill and thread my existing t-nut to fit the Phase 2.? I do not know the thread pitch, and I am thinking it might be metric.? Any ideas on the size/pitch?
3. Make a new post to fit the Phase 2 that matches the thread size and pitch of my current t-nut, and replace the top nut to an imperial thread.? Leaning towards this.
Please share your thoughts, and if you know the specifications of the t-nut thread.
Thanks,
Greg
?
--
Jim B
Looking at the pictures, you don’t seem to end up with a T nut, but a flat flat. Is that correct, or am I just not seeing the T?
--
Jim B
So a round stub, not a T nut. ?
--
Jim B
|
Re: Reverse tumbler Mod for a 9A
Okay, that makes sense. My 9A has the spring plunger. I did not know
older ones needed a wrench. Although I rarely use reverse, I do
switch to neutral whenever possible to reduce noise so that would be
a feature I would miss.
On 2/26/2023 3:40 PM, ww_big_al wrote:
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I believe this is to convert the fwd/rev
lead screw gears, so you do not require a wrench to loosen the
locking bolt. “newer” SB lathes use a spring plunger like
those on the quick-change gear box.
Al
?
?
Late arrival here. What is the purpose of
the mod?
|
Nick Andrews
Bill in OKC too
ww_big_al