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Yes, that was 143 that had a foggy headon with an Espee GP-9 in 1968. Evidently the crew of 143 "missed " Durham in the thick fog and punched the GP-9 in the nose. One can imagine who won the fight. While not the determining event that caused the demise of the mice it certainly didn't help. I have not a clue how to research ICC accident reports so if someone does have this skill perhaps we can learn the true facts behind this unfortunate situation. ~Bill Shippen
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I'm totally ignorant about the mice.? What "Phase" did SN use ?
They were long? by the time I hired out with WP in 1977, or I should say I have never seen the Mice in South Sacramento at the shops , nor
at outlier stations in service.?
After the Cornfield meet with the Mouse and a southbound SP mainliner near Chico,? I would imagine that really spelled the end of them.? I remember chatting with the SN guys and they told about the horror stories of SP not letting them out on the Cal Pee because they could only do 30 MPH thanks to the double reduction gears
on their traction motors. They'd hang out at Haggin waiting to go west? or get locked in? at Cannon and die there.
Justin,
Sorry, but the?44-tonners are HO scale:? . The SN models are NOT shown on the?web site yet.
Rapido is doing three 44-ton "phases". Phase IV bodies will be offered lettered for SN 142 and 146 models (143-145 would have been the same after their initial repaints into the Zephyr scheme). Phase Ic would do for SN 141 and 147, but those two aren't in the pipeline. It would be really cool if they offered any of these in the original black with orange stripes. I did a Bachmann 44-tonner with SP switcher decals and individual lettering, but it was a regular pain in the you know where.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 6:05?PM Justin Rowe via <justingrowe= [email protected]> wrote:
What scale will that be?? Oh my Gosh.?
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023, 3:24 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Daniel,
Well . . . that's a pretty subjective question (though you have every right to ask!). I would rank the North Shore as very high, as it was arguably the most modern, efficient and well-built line in the country. On the other hand, the Pacific Electric was miles beyond either the NS or the SN in terms of roster, mileage and breadth of area served.
The SN had many interesting?features, and having seen its last gasp of electric operation at Yuba City when I was young, and photographing the dieselized SN in the 1960s and 1970s, it has always been my favorite.?
As an aside, I just saw in the new RMC that rapido is going to offer their 44-tonner in SN lettering as 141 and 146 in the full?1952 Zephyr paint scheme with all the scare stripes. I didn't buy the issue, so I don't remember if the artwork showed the roof-top number boxes and gumball?lights though. This could almost make me take up modeling the SN again, though I'm heavily into British O-scale narrow gauge these days.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ?? I have been enjoying learning about the North Shore line recently. Though this video is not SN related, the footage came from WRM and is in full color.
Do you agree with the assertion at the end that the North Shore is the greatest interurban? The SN has to be in the top 10 for sure
Daniel El El mar, sep. 5, 2023 a la(s) 2:25 a.m., Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> escribi¨®: David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
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Really , the mice are HO !? I may have to snag a couple of those !
I remember seeing those in the late 60's in Chico as my brother attended Chico State College back then and got a degree in Mexican History so he could be a teacher. On our trips to Chico to visit Bill, I never saw them run up the Esplanade as they were always tied up at Mulberry.
Fun memories !
Justin,
Sorry, but the?44-tonners are HO scale:? . The SN models are NOT shown on the?web site yet.
Rapido is doing three 44-ton "phases". Phase IV bodies will be offered lettered for SN 142 and 146 models (143-145 would have been the same after their initial repaints into the Zephyr scheme). Phase Ic would do for SN 141 and 147, but those two aren't in the pipeline. It would be really cool if they offered any of these in the original black with orange stripes. I did a Bachmann 44-tonner with SP switcher decals and individual lettering, but it was a regular pain in the you know where.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 6:05?PM Justin Rowe via <justingrowe= [email protected]> wrote:
What scale will that be?? Oh my Gosh.?
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023, 3:24 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Daniel,
Well . . . that's a pretty subjective question (though you have every right to ask!). I would rank the North Shore as very high, as it was arguably the most modern, efficient and well-built line in the country. On the other hand, the Pacific Electric was miles beyond either the NS or the SN in terms of roster, mileage and breadth of area served.
The SN had many interesting?features, and having seen its last gasp of electric operation at Yuba City when I was young, and photographing the dieselized SN in the 1960s and 1970s, it has always been my favorite.?
As an aside, I just saw in the new RMC that rapido is going to offer their 44-tonner in SN lettering as 141 and 146 in the full?1952 Zephyr paint scheme with all the scare stripes. I didn't buy the issue, so I don't remember if the artwork showed the roof-top number boxes and gumball?lights though. This could almost make me take up modeling the SN again, though I'm heavily into British O-scale narrow gauge these days.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ?? I have been enjoying learning about the North Shore line recently. Though this video is not SN related, the footage came from WRM and is in full color.
Do you agree with the assertion at the end that the North Shore is the greatest interurban? The SN has to be in the top 10 for sure
Daniel El El mar, sep. 5, 2023 a la(s) 2:25 a.m., Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> escribi¨®: David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
Thanks. I already have some really great custom models in N-Scale, I just haven¡¯t added roof details yet. But I mentioned it to other family members.?
Justin,
Sorry, but the?44-tonners are HO scale:? . The SN models are NOT shown on the?web site yet.
Rapido is doing three 44-ton "phases". Phase IV bodies will be offered lettered for SN 142 and 146 models (143-145 would have been the same after their initial repaints into the Zephyr scheme). Phase Ic would do for SN 141 and 147, but those two aren't in the pipeline. It would be really cool if they offered any of these in the original black with orange stripes. I did a Bachmann 44-tonner with SP switcher decals and individual lettering, but it was a regular pain in the you know where.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 6:05?PM Justin Rowe via <justingrowe= [email protected]> wrote:
What scale will that be?? Oh my Gosh.?
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023, 3:24 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Daniel,
Well . . . that's a pretty subjective question (though you have every right to ask!). I would rank the North Shore as very high, as it was arguably the most modern, efficient and well-built line in the country. On the other hand, the Pacific Electric was miles beyond either the NS or the SN in terms of roster, mileage and breadth of area served.
The SN had many interesting?features, and having seen its last gasp of electric operation at Yuba City when I was young, and photographing the dieselized SN in the 1960s and 1970s, it has always been my favorite.?
As an aside, I just saw in the new RMC that rapido is going to offer their 44-tonner in SN lettering as 141 and 146 in the full?1952 Zephyr paint scheme with all the scare stripes. I didn't buy the issue, so I don't remember if the artwork showed the roof-top number boxes and gumball?lights though. This could almost make me take up modeling the SN again, though I'm heavily into British O-scale narrow gauge these days.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ?? I have been enjoying learning about the North Shore line recently. Though this video is not SN related, the footage came from WRM and is in full color.
Do you agree with the assertion at the end that the North Shore is the greatest interurban? The SN has to be in the top 10 for sure
Daniel El El mar, sep. 5, 2023 a la(s) 2:25 a.m., Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> escribi¨®: David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
Justin,
Sorry, but the?44-tonners are HO scale:? . The SN models are NOT shown on the?web site yet.
Rapido is doing three 44-ton "phases". Phase IV bodies will be offered lettered for SN 142 and 146 models (143-145 would have been the same after their initial repaints into the Zephyr scheme). Phase Ic would do for SN 141 and 147, but those two aren't in the pipeline. It would be really cool if they offered any of these in the original black with orange stripes. I did a Bachmann 44-tonner with SP switcher decals and individual lettering, but it was a regular pain in the you know where.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 6:05?PM Justin Rowe via <justingrowe= [email protected]> wrote:
What scale will that be?? Oh my Gosh.?
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023, 3:24 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Daniel,
Well . . . that's a pretty subjective question (though you have every right to ask!). I would rank the North Shore as very high, as it was arguably the most modern, efficient and well-built line in the country. On the other hand, the Pacific Electric was miles beyond either the NS or the SN in terms of roster, mileage and breadth of area served.
The SN had many interesting?features, and having seen its last gasp of electric operation at Yuba City when I was young, and photographing the dieselized SN in the 1960s and 1970s, it has always been my favorite.?
As an aside, I just saw in the new RMC that rapido is going to offer their 44-tonner in SN lettering as 141 and 146 in the full?1952 Zephyr paint scheme with all the scare stripes. I didn't buy the issue, so I don't remember if the artwork showed the roof-top number boxes and gumball?lights though. This could almost make me take up modeling the SN again, though I'm heavily into British O-scale narrow gauge these days.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ?? I have been enjoying learning about the North Shore line recently. Though this video is not SN related, the footage came from WRM and is in full color.
Do you agree with the assertion at the end that the North Shore is the greatest interurban? The SN has to be in the top 10 for sure
Daniel El El mar, sep. 5, 2023 a la(s) 2:25 a.m., Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> escribi¨®: David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
What scale will that be? ?Oh my Gosh.?
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023, 3:24 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Daniel,
Well . . . that's a pretty subjective question (though you have every right to ask!). I would rank the North Shore as very high, as it was arguably the most modern, efficient and well-built line in the country. On the other hand, the Pacific Electric was miles beyond either the NS or the SN in terms of roster, mileage and breadth of area served.
The SN had many interesting?features, and having seen its last gasp of electric operation at Yuba City when I was young, and photographing the dieselized SN in the 1960s and 1970s, it has always been my favorite.?
As an aside, I just saw in the new RMC that rapido is going to offer their 44-tonner in SN lettering as 141 and 146 in the full?1952 Zephyr paint scheme with all the scare stripes. I didn't buy the issue, so I don't remember if the artwork showed the roof-top number boxes and gumball?lights though. This could almost make me take up modeling the SN again, though I'm heavily into British O-scale narrow gauge these days.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ?? I have been enjoying learning about the North Shore line recently. Though this video is not SN related, the footage came from WRM and is in full color.
Do you agree with the assertion at the end that the North Shore is the greatest interurban? The SN has to be in the top 10 for sure
Daniel El El mar, sep. 5, 2023 a la(s) 2:25 a.m., Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> escribi¨®: David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
Daniel,
Well . . . that's a pretty subjective question (though you have every right to ask!). I would rank the North Shore as very high, as it was arguably the most modern, efficient and well-built line in the country. On the other hand, the Pacific Electric was miles beyond either the NS or the SN in terms of roster, mileage and breadth of area served.
The SN had many interesting?features, and having seen its last gasp of electric operation at Yuba City when I was young, and photographing the dieselized SN in the 1960s and 1970s, it has always been my favorite.?
As an aside, I just saw in the new RMC that rapido is going to offer their 44-tonner in SN lettering as 141 and 146 in the full?1952 Zephyr paint scheme with all the scare stripes. I didn't buy the issue, so I don't remember if the artwork showed the roof-top number boxes and gumball?lights though. This could almost make me take up modeling the SN again, though I'm heavily into British O-scale narrow gauge these days.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
I have been enjoying learning about the North Shore line recently. Though this video is not SN related, the footage came from WRM and is in full color.
Do you agree with the assertion at the end that the North Shore is the greatest interurban? The SN has to be in the top 10 for sure
Daniel El El mar, sep. 5, 2023 a la(s) 2:25 a.m., Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> escribi¨®: David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
I have been enjoying learning about the North Shore line recently. Though this video is not SN related, the footage came from WRM and is in full color.
Do you agree with the assertion at the end that the North Shore is the greatest interurban? The SN has to be in the top 10 for sure
Daniel
El El mar, sep. 5, 2023 a la(s) 2:25 a.m., Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> escribi¨®: David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
David,
According to Swett's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN (p. 200), "The mainline between East Nicolaus and Alicia was abandoned on October 15, 1958." The text does not say when East Nicolaus itself was abandoned, but says on page 204 that Sankey (WP crossing) to East Nicolaus (9.8 miles) was being operated as a branch. A separate list of abandonments in my collection shows East Nicolaus south to Catlett was abandoned on January 11, 1965. Catlett to Sankey followed on January 5, 1972.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
Bill and Friends,
I don't know if this will answer all the questions about Concord, but here is a copy of the map Bob Campbell drew for me. As you can see, he was very careful about details, and was probably working from Sanborn maps (which did not show electric railway track after about 1910). The original was 11 X 17", and I had to stitch two scans together.
Your photo was taken from between the Line and Signal Department shed (#7) and First Street.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
Hello?
I considered this view as you stated for location however I don't recall Mr. Campbell telling me there was a track like this in the scan, hence? the question. Appreciate your data as always.?
~Bill Shippen?
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While driving from camping at Virgilia to home in Stockton today, the question came up regarding East Nicaulus.
When did the service through there stop and when did the rails come?out?
Thank you.
David Epling?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
Hello?
I considered this view as you stated for location however I don't recall Mr. Campbell telling me there was a track like this in the scan, hence? the question. Appreciate your data as always.?
~Bill Shippen?
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Bill,
The late Bob Campbell, who was probably the leading expert on South End electrification said it?was?a "motor generator", and he was there when it was still running. This is echoed in Harre Demoro's book where he says the South End was never changed to rotary converters. The one exception to the motor generators was the Holland Branch substation at Valdez, which had a mercury arc rectifier.
Most of the permanent North End substations were changed to rotary converters and were automated between 1923 and 1929. The big, or actually small, exception was Oroville, which apparently remained as a motor generator. North End portable substation 1, which is the one at the WRM, is also a motor-generator.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
Thad article you linked to asserts that SN had a motor-generator set in the Concord substation.? I though that SN used rotary converters, which are significantly more efficient that motor-generator sets and much easier to adapt to automatic control/remote supervision
Can anyone confirm what was in the Concord substation, one way or the other?
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I am also lurking. ?I am primarily a ¡°C&O¡± fan and modeler,
but WP and SN are a close second,- go figure ! I will work on several SN units in next 6 months and hope to post pix when done.
I am very appreciative of all of Garth¡¯s posts and material as well as others. ?I hope we just let this group ¡°simmer¡±and come to a boil when there¡¯s a need.
? ?Dan Lee. ?San Jose
On 09/03/2023 8:22 PM PDT Jim Baker <jrbaker5@...> wrote:
?
?
I have been lurking in the shadows.
?
--Jim Baker
? ?Whittier, CA
?
?
On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 08:13:06 PM PDT, Bill Shippen <pitstopharold@...> wrote:
?
?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
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I certainly don¡¯t think so? Interesting to think of a modern ¡°utopian¡± city out near Montezuma. Isn¡¯t that particularly why the O&A was built, to help develop those areas? Makes me wonder how successful such a thing could be.? Unfortunately it will ruin a great hidden gem of a place, successful or not. If you have the opportunity go visit before it¡¯s gone.? Only a matter of time I suppose, it is (was) the last natural ¡°deep¡± water marina when I lived in Fairfield/Vacaville in the 80s.?
Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 5:35 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000_at_gmail.com_floraloasis@...> wrote:
Bill, This group is certainly NOT dead, though it sleeps a lot. All that is needed is for someone to share a photo, as you often do, or ask a question and it springs back to wakefulness. I have perhap
Bill,
This group is certainly NOT dead,?though it?sleeps a?lot. All that is needed is for someone to share a photo, as you often do, or ask a question and it springs back to wakefulness.
I have perhaps been a bit remiss about sharing my own collection these days. Other activities and interests have been eating my free time. I've been organizing my photos and reference materials for a possible book on Virginia grist mills (it's been in the works for about 30 years). Living history interests are a big drain, as I train?a successor to my position as an archery safety officer, and I will be leading my local group at a public demonstration event in October,?and four other events are on the calendar. Oy! It feels like I don't even have time to sleep. And retirement was supposed to be easy.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
Thad article you linked to asserts that SN had a motor-generator set in the Concord substation. I though that SN used rotary converters, which are significantly more efficient that motor-generator sets and much easier to adapt to automatic control/remote supervision
Can anyone confirm what was in the Concord substation, one way or the other?
|
Bill,
This group is certainly NOT dead,?though it?sleeps a?lot. All that is needed is for someone to share a photo, as you often do, or ask a question and it springs back to wakefulness.
I have perhaps been a bit remiss about sharing my own collection these days. Other activities and interests have been eating my free time. I've been organizing my photos and reference materials for a possible book on Virginia grist mills (it's been in the works for about 30 years). Living history interests are a big drain, as I train?a successor to my position as an archery safety officer, and I will be leading my local group at a public demonstration event in October,?and four other events are on the calendar. Oy! It feels like I don't even have time to sleep. And retirement was supposed to be easy.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
|
Bill,
That's Concord, with the substation in the back at right. There were IIRC two tracks here that were used to park MW equipment, and later derelict equipment slated for scrap. Bob Campbell took a number of photos here. See?, particularly the last photo.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff
MoW 83. June 1956, unknown location. Can someone ID the location?
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I am still here. it¡¯s ok with me if messages are infrequent. The content is good. Did you here tech moguls are trying to build a city at Montezuma on the old SN?? They bought a bunch of property.?
Last post Jul17. Anyone out there?
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Philip Schmierer
David Epling
George And Lisa Brown
Bilton