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I am stripping and varnishing all the brightwork on my 362 and am considering removing the factory installed plastic fillet where the caprail meets the deck. It's a mess after years of use and several prior efforts to varnish without good clean-up. I imagine that it's opening up a can of worms so I thought I'd ask you folks what you've discovered if you've done this work yourselves? Was it bonded with 5200? Remove with a heatgun or chemical stripper?
?
Thanks,
Tom Malone
Sabre 362 #173
Port Townsend, WA
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Re: Enlarging the mastgate
Hi All,
?
Continuing this thread as I don¡¯t recall another on a related subject. I ordered the tides track and due to Joe Cleary¡¯s suggestion tried removing the top of the mast which worked better than expected. ? So next challenge was getting the screws out of the track. ?All were firmly mounted but came loose except the longer screw in the very top track which had to be removed via an extraction tool. ?That was successful today! ?
So I thought the rest would be easy( oh but it¡¯s a boat project.) ?The top section moves only about 1/8¡± up and down. I¡¯ve checked the paint and run the knife blade down each side with no real catches.?
I don¡¯t see a build up of paint and the mast appears clean inside and out, please tell me there isn¡¯t some kind of nut behind the original track? ?How does the track remove??
--
Stephanie
Moderator
Sabre 36, #67
Formerly Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario
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Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
Further to my last reply and now I have a little more time, I wouldn't go wireless. We see far to many problems with both the Raymarine and B&G versions. Signals coming down from the old DMI MHU are analog voltages, nothing digital about it and the current Raymarine Short Vane MHU takes the same approach - which I like. Absolutely no compatibility between Datamarine & Raymarine though. I totally agree about keeping the wind display separate. I really don't like the presentation on an Axiom, too busy, like the B&G Triton displays and worse the B&G sailsteer overlay on the Zeus/Vulcan chartplotters which blocks out anything close to you on the screen.
The P79 50/200Khz Shoot thru the hull Txdcr will work well for traditional sonar with a transducer cable that has a DSM/CP370 style plug and then connected to the Axiom using an A80489 Adaptor cable? - as long as the hull is solid glass and not cored.
--
Pete Waterson
¡°°ä³ó²¹°ù»å´Ç²Ô²Ô²¹²â¡±
S38-2
Oriental, NC
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Re: Refrigerator insulation
I'm following up on this project from Jan of 2024, as I'm starting to upgrade my 35 year old refrigeration!
I've read the previous comments from Jay & Carter as well as the original from Matt. Do either of you have any insight into how thick the existing original insulation is ?
I've drilled some test holes & seem to find as much as 3 inches between the refrig shell and the hull, without much room for additional insulation. My boat is a 1988 38' MK II, so manufacturing processes will likely have changed over the course of time.
Carter, if you're still lurking around what did you find ? & how much of the insulation were you able to inject ?
Thanks and Regards?
Mike
s/v Ladylike?
88 38' MK II
Oriental NC
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Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
While it often sounds like an infomercial, the latest video from Sailing Uma does have some information on solar panel construction and some innovative ideas from a new company. For those considering flexible panels, it is probably worth the 20 minutes or so to watch.
|
Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Apr 14, 2025, at 7:10?AM, David Lochner via groups.io <davelochner@...> wrote:
Don¡¯s photo of the dodger clearly shows why panels should be oriented fore and aft. In that photo if the panels were oriented athwartship both panels would be shaded with their production severely curtailed by the boom¡¯s shadow. If they are aligned fore and aft, only one panel would be affected.
Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
On Apr 14, 2025, at 5:56?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
Hi Don,
?
I have read some people have used 4 mm polycarbonate as a backing and asked Ocean Planet about it, even going to 6 mm. ?They said not to do it and further they would not honor a warranty [5 years] claim if any panel were placed across a support frame.? The reason being as Dave mentioned, the repeated flexing over a hard point can damage the cells and wiring connections.? The manual for Solbian SP panels actually warns against doing that:?
?
¡°Canvas Installation - If installing on canvas, do not run any panels over a support bar. This was previously done with polycarbonate backing, but experience has shown that the solar panels can still be damaged by pressure from a crossbar.¡±??
?
Using Starboard would probably flex less than polycarbonate, especially anchored to the support frame under the canvas.? I have only used 1¡± Starboard and that is not bending.? Would ?¡± Starboard adopt the various curves on top of the frame like the masonite?? Am not seeing how the zippers in the canvas to attach to the frame could be modified and still maintain adequate tension on the canvas across the full bimini frame.? [Possibly due to the coffee not kicking in yet.]? Would have thought having partial zippers vs. running the full length of the support frame would create uneven tension, but maybe not.??
?
I looked at the Custom Marine but my fore / aft maximum length is 41¡±that will still fit inside the support frames, though that would go over the center support.??
?
Please post more photos as your project progresses.??
?
Thanks,
Brian
Escapade S426
CT / LIS
?
?
Attached are the photos of my masonite templates for solar panel backing plate plates. ?Four photos show the templates mounted on top of the Bimini. ?Note the problems with gaps between the canvas and the template. ?One photo shows the template mounted under the Bimini and over the center ridge pipe, and one photo shows a template (simulating a solar panels) mounted directly over the backing plate under the Bimini in the previous photo. ?This is the plan I will use. ?The tech guy at Custom Marine Products thinks it¡¯s an excellent idea and gave it his blessing, for whatever that¡¯s worth. ?My local canvass guy likes it too, and says modification to the center pipe zipper can be done at reasonable cost.
As previously stated I plan to make the actual backing plates out of 1/4¡± StarBoard with the edges rounded off because I think it is much better suited to the marine environment. I will mount the backing plates and the panels with appropriate length 10x24 bolts a washers in the fashion of the bolt kit available through Custom Marine Products. ?I will also have some grommets and 2¡± squares of reinforcing canvass add to the bolt holes, again at minimal cost.
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
I didn't read this thread, so maybe I'm duplicating what's already here, but here is what I know:
DMI Marine website is :
Website is still working, but not sure for how much longer. What you need is a Speed PCB for the MHU - pretty simple install if you can find one, but they don't list it on their website anymore as an available spare.
For a new MHU they want $850.00 (We sell a complete Raymarine Wind pack (Display, Masthead Unit and Mast Cable) for $899.95 so a new DMI MHU doesn't make sense. You really need to be at a boatyard with a manlift to run a new cable comfortably,? unless you are the mountaineering type and have ascender gear. Not sure if a Sabre 32 has a deck stepped mast, but if so that can be an issue running a new cable in a mast that is already stepped.
--
Pete Waterson
¡°°ä³ó²¹°ù»å´Ç²Ô²Ô²¹²â¡±
S38-2
Oriental, NC
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Re: 362 Yanmar-Kanzaki transmission removal
Bumping to confirm that the damper disc part number for the 362 with Yanmar 3JH2E + KBW10-E is 177099-03500. The original 1300hr disc looks fine, but with all of the trouble to R&R the transmission, new makes sense.? Thanks /Ed
--
SV Enigma, Sabre 362 #199
Lake Erie @ Sandusky, OH
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Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Don¡¯s photo of the dodger clearly shows why panels should be oriented fore and aft. In that photo if the panels were oriented athwartship both panels would be shaded with their production severely curtailed by the boom¡¯s shadow. If they are aligned fore and aft, only one panel would be affected.
Dave Second Star S362 #113 Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Apr 14, 2025, at 5:56?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
Hi Don, ? I have read some people have used 4 mm polycarbonate as a backing and asked Ocean Planet about it, even going to 6 mm. ?They said not to do it and further they would not honor a warranty [5 years] claim if any panel were placed across a support frame.? The reason being as Dave mentioned, the repeated flexing over a hard point can damage the cells and wiring connections.? The manual for Solbian SP panels actually warns against doing that:? ? ¡°Canvas Installation - If installing on canvas, do not run any panels over a support bar. This was previously done with polycarbonate backing, but experience has shown that the solar panels can still be damaged by pressure from a crossbar.¡±?? ? Using Starboard would probably flex less than polycarbonate, especially anchored to the support frame under the canvas.? I have only used 1¡± Starboard and that is not bending.? Would ?¡± Starboard adopt the various curves on top of the frame like the masonite?? Am not seeing how the zippers in the canvas to attach to the frame could be modified and still maintain adequate tension on the canvas across the full bimini frame.? [Possibly due to the coffee not kicking in yet.]? Would have thought having partial zippers vs. running the full length of the support frame would create uneven tension, but maybe not.?? ? I looked at the Custom Marine but my fore / aft maximum length is 41¡±that will still fit inside the support frames, though that would go over the center support.?? ? Please post more photos as your project progresses.?? ? Thanks, Brian Escapade S426 CT / LIS ? ? Attached are the photos of my masonite templates for solar panel backing plate plates. ?Four photos show the templates mounted on top of the Bimini. ?Note the problems with gaps between the canvas and the template. ?One photo shows the template mounted under the Bimini and over the center ridge pipe, and one photo shows a template (simulating a solar panels) mounted directly over the backing plate under the Bimini in the previous photo. ?This is the plan I will use. ?The tech guy at Custom Marine Products thinks it¡¯s an excellent idea and gave it his blessing, for whatever that¡¯s worth. ?My local canvass guy likes it too, and says modification to the center pipe zipper can be done at reasonable cost. As previously stated I plan to make the actual backing plates out of 1/4¡± StarBoard with the edges rounded off because I think it is much better suited to the marine environment. I will mount the backing plates and the panels with appropriate length 10x24 bolts a washers in the fashion of the bolt kit available through Custom Marine Products. ?I will also have some grommets and 2¡± squares of reinforcing canvass add to the bolt holes, again at minimal cost.
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Hi Don, ? I have read some people have used 4 mm polycarbonate as a backing and asked Ocean Planet about it, even going to 6 mm. ?They said not to do it and further they would not honor a warranty [5 years] claim if any panel were placed across a support frame.? The reason being as Dave mentioned, the repeated flexing over a hard point can damage the cells and wiring connections.? The manual for Solbian SP panels actually warns against doing that: ? ¡°Canvas Installation - If installing on canvas, do not run any panels over a support bar. This was previously done with polycarbonate backing, but experience has shown that the solar panels can still be damaged by pressure from a crossbar.¡±? ? Using Starboard would probably flex less than polycarbonate, especially anchored to the support frame under the canvas.? I have only used 1¡± Starboard and that is not bending.? Would ?¡± Starboard adopt the various curves on top of the frame like the masonite?? Am not seeing how the zippers in the canvas to attach to the frame could be modified and still maintain adequate tension on the canvas across the full bimini frame.? [Possibly due to the coffee not kicking in yet.]? Would have thought having partial zippers vs. running the full length of the support frame would create uneven tension, but maybe not.? ? I looked at the Custom Marine but my fore / aft maximum length is 41¡±that will still fit inside the support frames, though that would go over the center support.? ? Please post more photos as your project progresses.? ? Thanks, Brian Escapade S426 CT / LIS ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Oceans via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 10:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay? Attached are the photos of my masonite templates for solar panel backing plate plates. ?Four photos show the templates mounted on top of the Bimini. ?Note the problems with gaps between the canvas and the template. ?One photo shows the template mounted under the Bimini and over the center ridge pipe, and one photo shows a template (simulating a solar panels) mounted directly over the backing plate under the Bimini in the previous photo. ?This is the plan I will use. ?The tech guy at Custom Marine Products thinks it¡¯s an excellent idea and gave it his blessing, for whatever that¡¯s worth. ?My local canvass guy likes it too, and says modification to the center pipe zipper can be done at reasonable cost. As previously stated I plan to make the actual backing plates out of 1/4¡± StarBoard with the edges rounded off because I think it is much better suited to the marine environment. I will mount the backing plates and the panels with appropriate length 10x24 bolts a washers in the fashion of the bolt kit available through Custom Marine Products. ?I will also have some grommets and 2¡± squares of reinforcing canvass add to the bolt holes, again at minimal cost.
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Jorgen:
Allison¡¯s comment reminded me of an upholstery shop that does custom work on classic & modern cars, has worked on boats, and does a fair amount of commercial & residential work. Try Carthom Upholstery Corp. in New Rochelle (at the entrance of
New Rochelle Municipal Marina). I used to winter there before the garage replacement project, and they had a variety of projects going on.
Good luck,
Franz Alvarez
S/V Tranquility, S38 MKII
A few boats down from you! ;-)
Get
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Jorgen I did a headliner many years ago and it is a huge amount of work. ?The few things I did we low density coat and spray adhesive we also used monel staples to attach to panels. ?If it is too big a job for you, try going to an auto upholstery
shop
Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allisonleh@... ? ? ??
On Apr 13, 2025, at 5:51?PM, Jorgen Naess via groups.io <joergen.naess@...> wrote:
?
I have started the headliner repair project on my S452. Naugahyde (vinyl) and 3M 76 adhesive has been purchased. I also bought some high density 1/8 foam for a few areas needing a full repair. I have removed most of the plywood ceiling panels from the
main cabin. Planning to do the work at home.
?
Also, to practice ahead of time I bought extra plywood. Today, after practicing, I am afraid the results do not look that good. I have decided I need professional help to complete this. As the headliner is a high-visibility item it needs to look great.
?
So, question to the group; can anyone recommend a reputable boat/marine upholsterer somewhere in the NY Metro, CT or Long Island area? I am also actively searching as of this writing.
?
Thank very much in advance!
?
Jorgen Naess
2001 Sabre 452, VENTO
Winter: Mamaroneck, NY
Summer: Greenport, NY
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
-- Franz Alvarez S/V Tranquility - S38MKII
|
Jorgen I did a headliner many years ago and it is a huge amount of work. ?The few things I did we low density coat and spray adhesive we also used monel staples to attach to panels. ?If it is too big a job for you, try going to an auto upholstery shop Allison Lehman Swiftsure Yachts 510 912-5800 cell 510 860-4640 fax allisonleh@... ? ? ??
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On Apr 13, 2025, at 5:51?PM, Jorgen Naess via groups.io <joergen.naess@...> wrote:
? I have started the headliner repair project on my S452. Naugahyde (vinyl) and 3M 76 adhesive has been purchased. I also bought some high density 1/8 foam for a few areas needing a full repair. I have removed most of the plywood ceiling panels from the main cabin. Planning to do the work at home.
?
Also, to practice ahead of time I bought extra plywood. Today, after practicing, I am afraid the results do not look that good. I have decided I need professional help to complete this. As the headliner is a high-visibility item it needs to look great.
?
So, question to the group; can anyone recommend a reputable boat/marine upholsterer somewhere in the NY Metro, CT or Long Island area? I am also actively searching as of this writing.
?
Thank very much in advance!
?
Jorgen Naess
2001 Sabre 452, VENTO
Winter: Mamaroneck, NY
Summer: Greenport, NY
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
Verne I have the P79 mounted in my Shamrock fishing boat, solid glass hull. It is connected to a Garmin MFD with CHIRP sonar. It works great, provides accurate depth, structure, bottom density and fish. I would say TMI for sailing. The deepest I¡¯ve been in was 90¡¯ and got good readings.?
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On Apr 13, 2025, at 3:49?PM, Jeff Bartlett via groups.io <Jhbartlett@...> wrote:
? Verne,
?
Two years ago (summer 2023) I sent my DataMarine wind masthead unit to DMI Marine in MA.? They were able to rebuild it, and it has been working fine since.
?
They were moving locations in 2024 and it isn't clear to me if they've reopened/are still in business but probably worth a shot if you haven't checked on them.? Their website is still up with an email address.??
?
?
--
Jeff B
1988 Sabre 34-2, 347
S/V Northwood
Deale, MD
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
?Brian,
Attached are the photos of my masonite templates for solar panel backing plate plates. ?Four photos show the templates mounted on top of the Bimini. ?Note the problems with gaps between the canvas and the template. ?One photo shows the template mounted under the Bimini and over the center ridge pipe, and one photo shows a template (simulating a solar panels) mounted directly over the backing plate under the Bimini in the previous photo. ?This is the plan I will use. ?The tech guy at Custom Marine Products thinks it¡¯s an excellent idea and gave it his blessing, for whatever that¡¯s worth. ?My local canvass guy likes it too, and says modification to the center pipe zipper can be done at reasonable cost.
As previously stated I plan to make the actual backing plates out of 1/4¡± StarBoard with the edges rounded off because I think it is much better suited to the marine environment. I will mount the backing plates and the panels with appropriate length 10x24 bolts a washers in the fashion of the bolt kit available through Custom Marine Products. ?I will also have some grommets and 2¡± squares of reinforcing canvass add to the bolt holes, again at minimal cost.
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1 #77
Hudson River
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Dave,?
So helpful as usual. ?Thanks again.
Don
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Brian,?
I am having difficulty sending the photos. ?Will try again sometime in the early part of this week.
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1?
Hudson River
|
I have started the headliner repair project on my S452. Naugahyde (vinyl) and 3M 76 adhesive has been purchased. I also bought some high density 1/8 foam for a few areas needing a full repair. I have removed most of the plywood ceiling panels from the main cabin. Planning to do the work at home.
?
Also, to practice ahead of time I bought extra plywood. Today, after practicing, I am afraid the results do not look that good. I have decided I need professional help to complete this. As the headliner is a high-visibility item it needs to look great.
?
So, question to the group; can anyone recommend a reputable boat/marine upholsterer somewhere in the NY Metro, CT or Long Island area? I am also actively searching as of this writing.
?
Thank very much in advance!
?
Jorgen Naess
2001 Sabre 452, VENTO
Winter: Mamaroneck, NY
Summer: Greenport, NY
?
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Don,
There are so many variables that contribute to real life panel performance, it is important to not get too caught up in ¡°precise numbers.¡± I think Calder uses the nominal voltage for his estimate, 12v. Anything from bird poop, to salt and dust buildup, to clouds, and shading can degrade panel performance. And in practice my Solar panels rarely hit the 150w output they are rated for. Even direction of travel. Today heading north under absolutely clear skies, my starboard panel produced 890 Wh. The port panel, next to the radar pole only produced 300 Wh due to shading a really small portion of the panel, this all because the sun was behind us. Had we been heading south, both panels would have produced in the same neighborhood. Nonetheless, I was still happy with the 1200 Wh (100ah) they produced, more than I ?consumed today.
My understanding of flexible panels is they are designed to flex over a firm surface, like a curved cabin top or hard dodger or bimini and not designed to be flexed. There are very fine wires and connectors in the panels, repeated flexing can cause these to break. The advice to mount them on something that won¡¯t flex as much is good advice.?
Separating the panels into port and starboard makes more sense to me over orienting them athwartship. A shadow from the mast or sails will affect both panels if mounted athwartship but only one panel if the panels are oriented fore and aft.
Here¡¯s the Calder article I referenced. It is getting a bit dated, however the basic information is still valid.
|
Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Apr 13, 2025, at 8:11?PM, Oceans via groups.io <oceans100t@...> wrote:
Dave,?
Thanks for the valuable info from Nigel Calder. ?So much for the advice of the marketing departments! ?
FYI, The panels under consideration are Semi-flexible - SunPower Monocrystalline - Shade Tolerant as sold by Custom Marine Products. ? The Ocv for the 120W is 23.1, for the 140W is 25, and for the 155W is 28.9. ?Cell Efficiency for all panels is 24.4%, and all are Grade A+ SunPower cells. ?I'd like to believe these are reasonably high quality panels. ?Please confirm or deny my assumption. ?Each of the 3 panels will be connected to separate Victron Smart Solar MPPT 75-15 Solar Controllers. ?Is a rough estimate of improved efficiency with these cells and controllers possible?
Using Calder's formula, for the 465W array I am dividing the 1400Wh by 12.8v to get 109Ah/day, and for the 395W array x 3 = 1185Wh/12.8 = 93Ah/day. ?Does the formula call for division by 12.8 for AGM's or some other value like 12.0 or 13.0?
?
Brian,
I too have been working through the challenge of how to best place the panels on the Bimini. ?Custom Marine suggests using a sheet of 4mm Policarb-Double Walled under the solar panel to smooth out sharp the curve of the center bow to allow the panels to be placed lengthwise rather than athwart ship. ?I was concerned concerned about UV degradation when I researched this product. ?One of the flat sides is UV protected but the sides, which would be also exposed to sunlight, are not. ?
I cut some 1/4" masonite to match the size of the panels as an experiment and realized they do a nice job of smoothing out the sharp ridge caused by the center bow. ?I then tried placing the masonite on the bottom of the Bimini and it worked even better. ?As a result I plan to use 1/4" Starboard under the Bimini by modifying the center zipper to hold the pipe in place. ?I will send photos in a separate email.
?
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1 #77
Hudson River
?
?
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Dave,?
Thanks for the valuable info from Nigel Calder. ?So much for the advice of the marketing departments! ?
FYI, The panels under consideration are Semi-flexible - SunPower Monocrystalline - Shade Tolerant as sold by Custom Marine Products. ? The Ocv for the 120W is 23.1, for the 140W is 25, and for the 155W is 28.9. ?Cell Efficiency for all panels is 24.4%, and all are Grade A+ SunPower cells. ?I'd like to believe these are reasonably high quality panels. ?Please confirm or deny my assumption. ?Each of the 3 panels will be connected to separate Victron Smart Solar MPPT 75-15 Solar Controllers. ?Is a rough estimate of improved efficiency with these cells and controllers possible?
Using Calder's formula, for the 465W array I am dividing the 1400Wh by 12.8v to get 109Ah/day, and for the 395W array x 3 = 1185Wh/12.8 = 93Ah/day. ?Does the formula call for division by 12.8 for AGM's or some other value like 12.0 or 13.0?
?
Brian,
I too have been working through the challenge of how to best place the panels on the Bimini. ?Custom Marine suggests using a sheet of 4mm Policarb-Double Walled under the solar panel to smooth out sharp the curve of the center bow to allow the panels to be placed lengthwise rather than athwart ship. ?I was concerned concerned about UV degradation when I researched this product. ?One of the flat sides is UV protected but the sides, which would be also exposed to sunlight, are not. ?
I cut some 1/4" masonite to match the size of the panels as an experiment and realized they do a nice job of smoothing out the sharp ridge caused by the center bow. ?I then tried placing the masonite on the bottom of the Bimini and it worked even better. ?As a result I plan to use 1/4" Starboard under the Bimini by modifying the center zipper to hold the pipe in place. ?I will send photos in a separate email.
?
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1 #77
Hudson River
?
?
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
We did this out of 1" tubing mounted on top of the bimini frame. 4 panels, 700 watts. The bimini window can see between the panels.  
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
Verne,
?
Two years ago (summer 2023) I sent my DataMarine wind masthead unit to DMI Marine in MA.? They were able to rebuild it, and it has been working fine since.
?
They were moving locations in 2024 and it isn't clear to me if they've reopened/are still in business but probably worth a shot if you haven't checked on them.? Their website is still up with an email address.??
?
?
--
Jeff B
1988 Sabre 34-2, 347
S/V Northwood
Deale, MD
|
Stephanie
Pete Waterson
Jorgen Naess