Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Brian,
You’ll have a solid system. A couple of comments.
Getting packages shipped out of Annapolis seems to be problematic. PKYS has been great at getting them out the door in a timely manner, however, UPS and USPS seem to have trouble getting them on the road. Recently it took the USPS over 10 days to ship from Annapolis to Vero Beach. An order from Defender, shipped via USPS and to Vero, arrived 4 days sooner although I placed the order 2 days after the PKYS order. Sue at PKYS was helpful and ?very easy to work with.
Out of the box, the Balmar J10 pulley will not work with an Arco 225a alternator. It will be necessary to shim the pulley with alternator shims. Install the alternator without the pulley and then use as many shims as necessary to tighten the nut and align the pulley with the other pulleys. Also, the tension on the belt and subsequently on the alternator adjusting bolt will be more than the bolt can handle which allows the alternator slip and the belt loosen. The solution is a Balmar Belt Buddy and new adjustment arm.
Dave Second Star S362 #113 Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Apr 27, 2025, at 8:21?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
Thanks Allison, Jim and Dave.? In large part to you, Len B, Pete W, Jordan and many others who have blazed this charging upgrade and LFP change trail [add in too many hours on YouTube watching Wakespeed installation seminars and many other reviews of the various components] that I have arrived at this point.? Many thanks to all who have discussed their different systems and considerations for upgrading the electrical,? battery charging, and solar panel systems.? The participants in this group, and the archives of their past postings, are invaluable resources for the rest of us.?? ? I now have an ARCO 225A alternator [with a Balmar pulley set for a J10 belt] ARCO Zeus regulator with both alternator and battery temperature sensors, and a Balmar AMP 12 installed. ?The cables to the main bus bars were upgraded to 4/0.? The cables to the 5 LA batteries remained 2/0, but will be changed to 4/0 when the LFPs are installed in the next couple of weeks, hopefully prior to launch. They will be of the same length.? The bus bars themselves may need to be changed for the higher current potential – a question for the electrician, and anyone who may have some thoughts / comments.? The boat came with Class T fuses at the batteries, but think they will have to be changed to higher amperage. ?Also have a Cerbo GX and Touch 70 and Smart Shunt installed.? Solbian panels for the bimini [272W total] and 2 VE Smart Solar controllers [for port and starboard] arrived Friday; the panels and bimini canvas are at the canvas shop.? The MultiPlus arrived Saturday morning, though the Orion seems to be MIA at the moment; sent an email to PKYS about that.? All equipment is / will be connected to the Cerbo with VE Direct wires.?? ? The alternator output, solar controllers and MultiPlus will go to the LFP house bank, and the start battery will be charged from the LFP via the 30A Orion. ?With Dave L.’s suggestion of the battery switch yesterday morning, at some point when the dust settles I will install that so can have some rudimentary power for navigation, nav lights, VHF from the start battery should the BMS shut everything down.? To charge the start battery directly would require changing the charge parameters on the ARCO Zeus to LA from LFP and additional wiring / switching, but have not started to think about the details for that yet. ? ? This has not been a DIY install – definitely do not have the skill set for that.? I did speak with an underwriter at my insurance company and they are reluctantly covering LFP installs, though do require the installation be done by a qualified [undefined] marine electrician, and documented in writing and photos by same.? If they are not happy with the information they receive they may require an inspection by an ABYC certified electrician.? Allison suggested getting a wiring diagram drawn up as that may help with insurance [and for the record of what was done] and I have asked the electrician to do so. ? ? And you are very right, Mr. Starkey, this has not been an inexpensive drop-in project.? This has snowballed from the beginning when relatively inexpensive solar panels would not fit on the bimini without crossing the center frame support.? Rod Collins and several others warned not to do that, and Ocean Planet said they would not honor a warranty claim if the Solbians were across a support frame.? The only stock panels I could find that would fit my bimini configuration with split backstays were Solbians.? Great quality equipment all around [I hope] but the numbers on the register kept growing as I loosely tried to track expenditures.? To say the 2025 boat budget has been obliterated is an understatement.?? ? Brian ? ? Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs. ? ? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process? ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery.
? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--?
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest?
|
Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Len we have the GXtouch 50 (the predecessor to the Ekranos) and it is rock solid
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On Apr 27, 2025, at 5:48?AM, Len Bertaux via groups.io <lbertaux@...> wrote:
Brian I understand your budgetary pain! One more heads up, the VE direct connector on my Ekrano display are problematic as they don’t have a secure connection and are prone to come out. Leaving your display inexplicably missing those components. Pay attention to them on your Cerbo. Best of luck in completing what will surely be a happy upgrade. Len Bertaux Walkabout S38mkii Prides Crossing MA On Apr 27, 2025, at 8:39?AM, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:
? Good choices across the board!
On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 8:21?AM Nauset Beach via <nausetbeach= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Allison, Jim and Dave.? In large part to you, Len B, Pete W, Jordan and many others who have blazed this charging upgrade and LFP change trail [add in too many hours on YouTube watching Wakespeed installation seminars and many other reviews of the various components] that I have arrived at this point.? Many thanks to all who have discussed their different systems and considerations for upgrading the electrical,? battery charging, and solar panel systems.? The participants in this group, and the archives of their past postings, are invaluable resources for the rest of us.? ? I now have an ARCO 225A alternator [with a Balmar pulley set for a J10 belt] ARCO Zeus regulator with both alternator and battery temperature sensors, and a Balmar AMP 12 installed.? The cables to the main bus bars were upgraded to 4/0.? The cables to the 5 LA batteries remained 2/0, but will be changed to 4/0 when the LFPs are installed in the next couple of weeks, hopefully prior to launch. They will be of the same length.? The bus bars themselves may need to be changed for the higher current potential – a question for the electrician, and anyone who may have some thoughts / comments.? The boat came with Class T fuses at the batteries, but think they will have to be changed to higher amperage.? Also have a Cerbo GX and Touch 70 and Smart Shunt installed.? Solbian panels for the bimini [272W total] and 2 VE Smart Solar controllers [for port and starboard] arrived Friday; the panels and bimini canvas are at the canvas shop.? The MultiPlus arrived Saturday morning, though the Orion seems to be MIA at the moment; sent an email to PKYS about that.? All equipment is / will be connected to the Cerbo with VE Direct wires.? ? The alternator output, solar controllers and MultiPlus will go to the LFP house bank, and the start battery will be charged from the LFP via the 30A Orion.? With Dave L.’s suggestion of the battery switch yesterday morning, at some point when the dust settles I will install that so can have some rudimentary power for navigation, nav lights, VHF from the start battery should the BMS shut everything down.? To charge the start battery directly would require changing the charge parameters on the ARCO Zeus to LA from LFP and additional wiring / switching, but have not started to think about the details for that yet. ? ? This has not been a DIY install – definitely do not have the skill set for that.? I did speak with an underwriter at my insurance company and they are reluctantly covering LFP installs, though do require the installation be done by a qualified [undefined] marine electrician, and documented in writing and photos by same.? If they are not happy with the information they receive they may require an inspection by an ABYC certified electrician.? Allison suggested getting a wiring diagram drawn up as that may help with insurance [and for the record of what was done] and I have asked the electrician to do so. ? ? And you are very right, Mr. Starkey, this has not been an inexpensive drop-in project.? This has snowballed from the beginning when relatively inexpensive solar panels would not fit on the bimini without crossing the center frame support.? Rod Collins and several others warned not to do that, and Ocean Planet said they would not honor a warranty claim if the Solbians were across a support frame.? The only stock panels I could find that would fit my bimini configuration with split backstays were Solbians.? Great quality equipment all around [I hope] but the numbers on the register kept growing as I loosely tried to track expenditures.? To say the 2025 boat budget has been obliterated is an understatement.? ? Brian ? ? Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs. ? ? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery. Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
|
Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Brian, It sounds like you are on the right track. ?I'm sure you will enjoy the benefits, once the hemorraging ends!? Allison LehmanSwiftsure Yachtsallison@...Cell: 510.912.5800Fax: 510.860.4640
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On Apr 27, 2025, at 5:21?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
Thanks Allison, Jim and Dave.? In large part to you, Len B, Pete W, Jordan and many others who have blazed this charging upgrade and LFP change trail [add in too many hours on YouTube watching Wakespeed installation seminars and many other reviews of the various components] that I have arrived at this point.? Many thanks to all who have discussed their different systems and considerations for upgrading the electrical,? battery charging, and solar panel systems.? The participants in this group, and the archives of their past postings, are invaluable resources for the rest of us.?? ? I now have an ARCO 225A alternator [with a Balmar pulley set for a J10 belt] ARCO Zeus regulator with both alternator and battery temperature sensors, and a Balmar AMP 12 installed. ?The cables to the main bus bars were upgraded to 4/0.? The cables to the 5 LA batteries remained 2/0, but will be changed to 4/0 when the LFPs are installed in the next couple of weeks, hopefully prior to launch. They will be of the same length.? The bus bars themselves may need to be changed for the higher current potential – a question for the electrician, and anyone who may have some thoughts / comments.? The boat came with Class T fuses at the batteries, but think they will have to be changed to higher amperage. ?Also have a Cerbo GX and Touch 70 and Smart Shunt installed.? Solbian panels for the bimini [272W total] and 2 VE Smart Solar controllers [for port and starboard] arrived Friday; the panels and bimini canvas are at the canvas shop.? The MultiPlus arrived Saturday morning, though the Orion seems to be MIA at the moment; sent an email to PKYS about that.? All equipment is / will be connected to the Cerbo with VE Direct wires.?? ? The alternator output, solar controllers and MultiPlus will go to the LFP house bank, and the start battery will be charged from the LFP via the 30A Orion. ?With Dave L.’s suggestion of the battery switch yesterday morning, at some point when the dust settles I will install that so can have some rudimentary power for navigation, nav lights, VHF from the start battery should the BMS shut everything down.? To charge the start battery directly would require changing the charge parameters on the ARCO Zeus to LA from LFP and additional wiring / switching, but have not started to think about the details for that yet. ? ? This has not been a DIY install – definitely do not have the skill set for that.? I did speak with an underwriter at my insurance company and they are reluctantly covering LFP installs, though do require the installation be done by a qualified [undefined] marine electrician, and documented in writing and photos by same.? If they are not happy with the information they receive they may require an inspection by an ABYC certified electrician.? Allison suggested getting a wiring diagram drawn up as that may help with insurance [and for the record of what was done] and I have asked the electrician to do so. ? ? And you are very right, Mr. Starkey, this has not been an inexpensive drop-in project.? This has snowballed from the beginning when relatively inexpensive solar panels would not fit on the bimini without crossing the center frame support.? Rod Collins and several others warned not to do that, and Ocean Planet said they would not honor a warranty claim if the Solbians were across a support frame.? The only stock panels I could find that would fit my bimini configuration with split backstays were Solbians.? Great quality equipment all around [I hope] but the numbers on the register kept growing as I loosely tried to track expenditures.? To say the 2025 boat budget has been obliterated is an understatement.?? ? Brian ? ? Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs. ? ? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process? ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery.
? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--?
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
|
Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Brian I understand your budgetary pain! One more heads up, the VE direct connector on my Ekrano display are problematic as they don’t have a secure connection and are prone to come out. Leaving your display inexplicably missing those components. Pay attention to them on your Cerbo. Best of luck in completing what will surely be a happy upgrade. Len Bertaux Walkabout S38mkii Prides Crossing MA
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Show quoted text
On Apr 27, 2025, at 8:39?AM, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:
? Good choices across the board!
On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 8:21?AM Nauset Beach via <nausetbeach= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Allison, Jim and Dave.? In large part to you, Len B, Pete W, Jordan and many others who have blazed this charging upgrade and LFP change trail [add in too many hours on YouTube watching Wakespeed installation seminars and many other reviews of the various components] that I have arrived at this point.? Many thanks to all who have discussed their different systems and considerations for upgrading the electrical,? battery charging, and solar panel systems.? The participants in this group, and the archives of their past postings, are invaluable resources for the rest of us.? ? I now have an ARCO 225A alternator [with a Balmar pulley set for a J10 belt] ARCO Zeus regulator with both alternator and battery temperature sensors, and a Balmar AMP 12 installed.? The cables to the main bus bars were upgraded to 4/0.? The cables to the 5 LA batteries remained 2/0, but will be changed to 4/0 when the LFPs are installed in the next couple of weeks, hopefully prior to launch. They will be of the same length.? The bus bars themselves may need to be changed for the higher current potential – a question for the electrician, and anyone who may have some thoughts / comments.? The boat came with Class T fuses at the batteries, but think they will have to be changed to higher amperage.? Also have a Cerbo GX and Touch 70 and Smart Shunt installed.? Solbian panels for the bimini [272W total] and 2 VE Smart Solar controllers [for port and starboard] arrived Friday; the panels and bimini canvas are at the canvas shop.? The MultiPlus arrived Saturday morning, though the Orion seems to be MIA at the moment; sent an email to PKYS about that.? All equipment is / will be connected to the Cerbo with VE Direct wires.? ? The alternator output, solar controllers and MultiPlus will go to the LFP house bank, and the start battery will be charged from the LFP via the 30A Orion.? With Dave L.’s suggestion of the battery switch yesterday morning, at some point when the dust settles I will install that so can have some rudimentary power for navigation, nav lights, VHF from the start battery should the BMS shut everything down.? To charge the start battery directly would require changing the charge parameters on the ARCO Zeus to LA from LFP and additional wiring / switching, but have not started to think about the details for that yet. ? ? This has not been a DIY install – definitely do not have the skill set for that.? I did speak with an underwriter at my insurance company and they are reluctantly covering LFP installs, though do require the installation be done by a qualified [undefined] marine electrician, and documented in writing and photos by same.? If they are not happy with the information they receive they may require an inspection by an ABYC certified electrician.? Allison suggested getting a wiring diagram drawn up as that may help with insurance [and for the record of what was done] and I have asked the electrician to do so. ? ? And you are very right, Mr. Starkey, this has not been an inexpensive drop-in project.? This has snowballed from the beginning when relatively inexpensive solar panels would not fit on the bimini without crossing the center frame support.? Rod Collins and several others warned not to do that, and Ocean Planet said they would not honor a warranty claim if the Solbians were across a support frame.? The only stock panels I could find that would fit my bimini configuration with split backstays were Solbians.? Great quality equipment all around [I hope] but the numbers on the register kept growing as I loosely tried to track expenditures.? To say the 2025 boat budget has been obliterated is an understatement.? ? Brian ? ? Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs. ? ? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery. Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
|
Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Good choices across the board!
On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 8:21?AM Nauset Beach via <nausetbeach= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Allison, Jim and Dave.? In large part to you, Len B, Pete W, Jordan and many others who have blazed this charging upgrade and LFP change trail [add in too many hours on YouTube watching Wakespeed installation seminars and many other reviews of the various components] that I have arrived at this point.? Many thanks to all who have discussed their different systems and considerations for upgrading the electrical,? battery charging, and solar panel systems.? The participants in this group, and the archives of their past postings, are invaluable resources for the rest of us.? ? I now have an ARCO 225A alternator [with a Balmar pulley set for a J10 belt] ARCO Zeus regulator with both alternator and battery temperature sensors, and a Balmar AMP 12 installed.? The cables to the main bus bars were upgraded to 4/0.? The cables to the 5 LA batteries remained 2/0, but will be changed to 4/0 when the LFPs are installed in the next couple of weeks, hopefully prior to launch. They will be of the same length.? The bus bars themselves may need to be changed for the higher current potential – a question for the electrician, and anyone who may have some thoughts / comments.? The boat came with Class T fuses at the batteries, but think they will have to be changed to higher amperage.? Also have a Cerbo GX and Touch 70 and Smart Shunt installed.? Solbian panels for the bimini [272W total] and 2 VE Smart Solar controllers [for port and starboard] arrived Friday; the panels and bimini canvas are at the canvas shop.? The MultiPlus arrived Saturday morning, though the Orion seems to be MIA at the moment; sent an email to PKYS about that.? All equipment is / will be connected to the Cerbo with VE Direct wires.? ? The alternator output, solar controllers and MultiPlus will go to the LFP house bank, and the start battery will be charged from the LFP via the 30A Orion.? With Dave L.’s suggestion of the battery switch yesterday morning, at some point when the dust settles I will install that so can have some rudimentary power for navigation, nav lights, VHF from the start battery should the BMS shut everything down.? To charge the start battery directly would require changing the charge parameters on the ARCO Zeus to LA from LFP and additional wiring / switching, but have not started to think about the details for that yet. ? ? This has not been a DIY install – definitely do not have the skill set for that.? I did speak with an underwriter at my insurance company and they are reluctantly covering LFP installs, though do require the installation be done by a qualified [undefined] marine electrician, and documented in writing and photos by same.? If they are not happy with the information they receive they may require an inspection by an ABYC certified electrician.? Allison suggested getting a wiring diagram drawn up as that may help with insurance [and for the record of what was done] and I have asked the electrician to do so. ? ? And you are very right, Mr. Starkey, this has not been an inexpensive drop-in project.? This has snowballed from the beginning when relatively inexpensive solar panels would not fit on the bimini without crossing the center frame support.? Rod Collins and several others warned not to do that, and Ocean Planet said they would not honor a warranty claim if the Solbians were across a support frame.? The only stock panels I could find that would fit my bimini configuration with split backstays were Solbians.? Great quality equipment all around [I hope] but the numbers on the register kept growing as I loosely tried to track expenditures.? To say the 2025 boat budget has been obliterated is an understatement.? ? Brian ? ? Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs. ? ? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery. Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
|
Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Thanks Allison, Jim and Dave.? In large part to you, Len B, Pete W, Jordan and many others who have blazed this charging upgrade and LFP change trail [add in too many hours on YouTube watching Wakespeed installation seminars and many other reviews of the various components] that I have arrived at this point.? Many thanks to all who have discussed their different systems and considerations for upgrading the electrical,? battery charging, and solar panel systems.? The participants in this group, and the archives of their past postings, are invaluable resources for the rest of us.? ? I now have an ARCO 225A alternator [with a Balmar pulley set for a J10 belt] ARCO Zeus regulator with both alternator and battery temperature sensors, and a Balmar AMP 12 installed. ?The cables to the main bus bars were upgraded to 4/0.? The cables to the 5 LA batteries remained 2/0, but will be changed to 4/0 when the LFPs are installed in the next couple of weeks, hopefully prior to launch. They will be of the same length.? The bus bars themselves may need to be changed for the higher current potential – a question for the electrician, and anyone who may have some thoughts / comments.? The boat came with Class T fuses at the batteries, but think they will have to be changed to higher amperage. ?Also have a Cerbo GX and Touch 70 and Smart Shunt installed.? Solbian panels for the bimini [272W total] and 2 VE Smart Solar controllers [for port and starboard] arrived Friday; the panels and bimini canvas are at the canvas shop.? The MultiPlus arrived Saturday morning, though the Orion seems to be MIA at the moment; sent an email to PKYS about that.? All equipment is / will be connected to the Cerbo with VE Direct wires.? ? The alternator output, solar controllers and MultiPlus will go to the LFP house bank, and the start battery will be charged from the LFP via the 30A Orion. ?With Dave L.’s suggestion of the battery switch yesterday morning, at some point when the dust settles I will install that so can have some rudimentary power for navigation, nav lights, VHF from the start battery should the BMS shut everything down.? To charge the start battery directly would require changing the charge parameters on the ARCO Zeus to LA from LFP and additional wiring / switching, but have not started to think about the details for that yet. ? ? This has not been a DIY install – definitely do not have the skill set for that.? I did speak with an underwriter at my insurance company and they are reluctantly covering LFP installs, though do require the installation be done by a qualified [undefined] marine electrician, and documented in writing and photos by same.? If they are not happy with the information they receive they may require an inspection by an ABYC certified electrician.? Allison suggested getting a wiring diagram drawn up as that may help with insurance [and for the record of what was done] and I have asked the electrician to do so. ? ? And you are very right, Mr. Starkey, this has not been an inexpensive drop-in project.? This has snowballed from the beginning when relatively inexpensive solar panels would not fit on the bimini without crossing the center frame support.? Rod Collins and several others warned not to do that, and Ocean Planet said they would not honor a warranty claim if the Solbians were across a support frame.? The only stock panels I could find that would fit my bimini configuration with split backstays were Solbians.? Great quality equipment all around [I hope] but the numbers on the register kept growing as I loosely tried to track expenditures.? To say the 2025 boat budget has been obliterated is an understatement.? ? Brian ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Allison Lehman via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2025 1:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question? Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs. ?
On Apr 26, 2025, at 5:35?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery. Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
On Apr 26, 2025, at 5:42?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote: ? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
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Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Earlier this winter I had some work done on Second Star. In the process the tech managed to damage the temp sensor on the alternator. In just a few hours of motoring the temp sensor broke off the alternator and a few hours later the alternator was toast. It was a frustrating and expensive repair. The “drop-in” replacement alternator was not exactly drop in. The temp sensor and a regulator that can use the alternator temperature is really important with LFP installations.
The current versions of the 618 regulator requires both an alternator temp sensor and a battery temp sensor for the temperature control feature to work.
Dave Second Star S362 #113 Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Apr 26, 2025, at 5:06?PM, Jim Starkey via groups.io <Jim@...> wrote:
To amplify on what Allison said, an alternator temperature managing voltage regulator is virtually required.? Almost all alternators are designed around a prospective load, which is generally the lead acid battery power absorption curve.? For a short period of time, the alternator will be called on to produce its rated capacity, after which the load will fall off dramatically (one of the many reasons that lead acid batteries suck).? And LFP battery, however, will suck up all the current offered until fully charged, during which time the alternator will almost certainly overhead. If you go with a smallish DC-DC adapter you can probably save your alternator but at the cost of a major LFP benefit, fast charging (aka minimizing engine running time).? A DC-DC adapter is best used to keep a starting battery topped off. There are basically only three choices for regulators: A relatively dumb Balmar 618, a Wakespeed WS500, and the ARCO Zeus.? The Balmar is a very simple install; the other two have tentacles all over the electrical system and are on the hairy edge of a DYI installation.? You will find the pricing very confusing -- the Balmar needs an extra box for Bluetooth and the Wakespeed base price doesn't include the wiring harness. I think this is the best time to do an LFP upgrade, don't think that it will be simple, easy, and cheap.? But well worth doing. One last suggestion: Check with your insurance company before doing anything.
On 4/26/2025 1:57 PM, Allison Lehman via??wrote:
Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs.Allison Lehman Swiftsure Yachts 510 912-5800 cell 510 860-4640 fax
? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process? ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery.
? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--?
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest --?
Jim Starkey, AmorphousDB, LLC
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Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
To amplify on what Allison said, an alternator temperature
managing voltage regulator is virtually required.? Almost all
alternators are designed around a prospective load, which is
generally the lead acid battery power absorption curve.? For a
short period of time, the alternator will be called on to produce
its rated capacity, after which the load will fall off
dramatically (one of the many reasons that lead acid batteries
suck).? And LFP battery, however, will suck up all the current
offered until fully charged, during which time the alternator will
almost certainly overhead.
If you go with a smallish DC-DC adapter you can probably save
your alternator but at the cost of a major LFP benefit, fast
charging (aka minimizing engine running time).? A DC-DC adapter is
best used to keep a starting battery topped off.
There are basically only three choices for regulators: A
relatively dumb Balmar 618, a Wakespeed WS500, and the ARCO Zeus.?
The Balmar is a very simple install; the other two have tentacles
all over the electrical system and are on the hairy edge of a DYI
installation.? You will find the pricing very confusing -- the
Balmar needs an extra box for Bluetooth and the Wakespeed base
price doesn't include the wiring harness.
I think this is the best time to do an LFP upgrade, don't think
that it will be simple, easy, and cheap.? But well worth doing.
One last suggestion: Check with your insurance company before
doing anything.
On 4/26/2025 1:57 PM, Allison Lehman
via groups.io wrote:
Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want
to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you
have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider
putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs.
Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
?
Thanks
Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those
switches on my old boat replacing the original
1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the
LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install,
but will let the electrician know to save any of the
what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now
which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery
connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due
to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x
Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage
space recovered in the process
?
Brian
Escapade?
S426
CT
/ LIS
?
?
?
Fair
Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
?
Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch
to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for
emergency combining. To allow for back up power using
the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off
and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House
battery can be used to start the engine by turning off
the Start battery and switching to the combined.?
Once the Orion charger is
installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for
the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house
batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus
will be high enough to engage the Orion which will
charge (or more likely go into float) for the start
battery.
Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
On Apr 26, 2025, at 5:42?AM,
Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...>
wrote:
?
If anyone is
interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15%
off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the
list were considering making the change,
including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a
new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to
charge the start battery from the LFP house
bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change
next winter, or later, but current events
accelerated that decision.??
I believe [have not
confirmed] my start battery is isolated from
the house bank with its own on/off switch in
the cockpit locker right above the battery.?
It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have
people wired a manually switched method of
connecting the start battery to the house load
to have at least nominal house power if there
is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or
is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
--
Jim Starkey,
AmorphousDB, LLC
|
Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Brian, how big is your alternator if it’s oversized you might want to upsize the the cabling on the hot and the ground. Also, do you have an external regulator if you don’t you should consider putting one in the system to take advantage of the epochs. Allison Lehman Swiftsure Yachts 510 912-5800 cell 510 860-4640 fax allisonleh@... ? ? ??
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On Apr 26, 2025, at 5:35?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
? Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ? ? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery. Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
On Apr 26, 2025, at 5:42?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote: ? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
|
One of the flat head screws on a stanchion base on our 362 is loose/able to be turned and there is a bit of rust weep coming from under the base. It is the inboard aft screw of the forward stanchion at the starboard side gate. The forward inboard screw/nuts are visibly poking through just above the stove next to the aft cabin bulkhead. The aft screw is not visible. I tried removing a bit of nearby trim but no dice. I’m able to feel some of the through bolts for the toerail/outer sail track but can’t seem to locate the screw in question. The stanchion base doesn’t feel loose so I am considering just sealing with 3M4000UV and calling it good. Any help/advice appreciated as always
Rob McCarthy,
1995 #Sabre362 ?#362Sabre
hull 158 “Windhover”
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I recently moved from a Sabre 362 to a 1995 Sabreline Fast Trawler or Aft Cabin. ?Not finding any lists that has been as helpful as this group, I created a google group for the “original”Sabreline Powerboats. ?And we have moved to the Dark Side….
?
?
?
#Sabreline
#FastTrawler
|
I got the rebuild kit for my leaky Racor. It's fine now.
--
Jim Gregory
Sabre 402 #32
Milford CT
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Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Thanks Dave – that is very helpful.? Had one of those switches on my old boat replacing the original 1/both/2 switches.? Will wait on this until after the LFP are in and connected to make it a cleaner install, but will let the electrician know to save any of the what will be surplus 2/0 battery cables there now which possibly can be repurposed for the start battery connection.? The LFP will be getting new 4/0 cable due to the higher current potential.? Am replacing 5 x Grp31 LA batteries, so some weight saving and storage space recovered in the process ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Lochner via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2025 7:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question? ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario ? Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.? Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery. Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
On Apr 26, 2025, at 5:42?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote: ? If anyone is interested, Epoch LFP batteries are now 15% off through Sunday, April 27.? Several on the list were considering making the change, including myself.? I have ordered batteries, a new MultiPlus II and an Orion 12/12-30A to charge the start battery from the LFP house bank.? I had planned to make the LFP change next winter, or later, but current events accelerated that decision.?? I believe [have not confirmed] my start battery is isolated from the house bank with its own on/off switch in the cockpit locker right above the battery.? It is charged via a 20+ yo PathMaker.? Have people wired a manually switched method of connecting the start battery to the house load to have at least nominal house power if there is a total house battery / BMS failure?? ?Or is this an unwarranted concern???
?
|
Re: Epoch LFP Battery Sale - Wiring Question
Dave Second Star S362 #113 Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
Brian,
Blue Sea switch 6011 is the switch to use. It controls 2 circuits and allows for emergency combining. To allow for back up power using the start/reserve battery the main battery is shut off and the 6011 switched to combined. Likewise the House battery can be used to start the engine by turning off the Start battery and switching to the combined.?
Once the Orion charger is installed, there is no need to ?have an AC charger for the Start battery. The Orion will draw from the house batteries. On shore power, the voltage on the DC+ bus will be high enough to engage the Orion which will charge (or more likely go into float) for the start battery.
Some of this is on MarineHowTo.com
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Len Bertaux
Jim Starkey
Rob McCarthy
David Short, SV One Timer, 1997 362, Mt Desert, ME
Jim Kerney - SV/Blown Away - Sabre 402
Tim Dokken