On Mar 2, 2025, at 6:11?PM, knightinnc via groups.io <Robertjohnknight@...> wrote:

?

My mounting screw hole on some of the finish work,? don't have enough meat around them for wooden bungs. What else can I use to "satisfactorily" seal the space above the screw heads?

?

<20250302_132541.jpg>

--

Robert
s/v Valinor
Sabre 34 Mark I #207
New Bern, NC

On Mar 2, 2025, at 10:50?AM, David Lochner via groups.io <davelochner@...> wrote:

?Out of curiosity I took a look a 8 days of solar output by panel. The whole time the boat was in a slip facing more or less South. Port panels would get morning sun, but a bit limited by a large powerboat to the east. The radar pole is on the port side, which in this case is also the north side. The difference in out put for each panel is pretty negligible. With the starboard panel having a slight advantage, probably due to shading by the powerboat to port. Overall the differences amounted to about 2-3%. There was a couple of outliers that could be due to weather, since this is a retrospective study, I don’t have the climate data readily available.?

The panels are 2 150 watt Solar Panels with independent Victron controllers, mounted flat over the bimini. The data is from late February at about 31°N latitude. For most (all?) of the days we were living aboard.

Dave

Second Star

S362 #113

Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Mar 2, 2025, at 12:04?PM, Randy Drummond via groups.io <SVReleaseMe@...> wrote:

Yes Everything Dave said. One reason I put another panel on the davits was to surround the radar poll. In the worst case scenario there are always at least two panels in full sun. When the radar dome covers a good portion of a panel it does cut it down a good bit. The back stays really are not noticeable. I have noticed during the middle of the day with high sun, the angle of the sun to the panel makes more of a deference than I would have thought. My two panels on the Bimini are angled slightly outboard and I can see a difference in output when the sun angle slightly favors one side or the other. This has lead me to believe that on average flat is better.?

On Mar 1, 2025, at 12:53?PM, David Lochner via groups.io <davelochner@...> wrote:

Tim,

This is where quality and good design come into play. A panel can be designed to be less affected by shading by how the cells are wired and the quality of the cells.

We have 2 150w Solara panels mounted over the bimini. The split backstay has little discernible effect on the power output. The radar pole has some effect, but I’ve never taken the time to figure out how much, too much work and too many variables to account for. When I look at the daily out put of both panels they are very close to being even. When planning the design expect to get about 3x the nominal output on average; a 100w panel will average 300wh of power. Again, better quality and more efficient panels will tend to do better. Earlier this week my panels were producing a little over 500wh of power each under clear blue skies at ~30° N in late February. In summer they have produced over 600 wh a day each. Total panel output will also depend on battery type and charge state. With LFP batteries the panels stay in the bulk stage for much longer. With LA batteries their output would go in absorption and put out less current.

Another advantage of higher quality panels is smaller size. The Solara’s were 3 or 4” narrower than similar panels from other brands.?

Dave

Second Star

S362 #113

Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

<9FCE91F8-92D1-4B86-AA1B-47EE394D5163_1_105_c.jpeg>d

On Mar 1, 2025, at 11:32?AM, Tim Sowerby via groups.io <tim.sowerby2@...> wrote:

With a split backstay, is there a concern about shading from the stay itself? ? (There's also an issue with shade from pole mounted radar installations.)

?

I understand that some panels have substantially decreased output with very moderate shading whereas others are designed to be shade tolerant. ? ?In many ways the bimini seems like the best place to install flexible panels being out of the way and having less shade than the dodger. ? Considering the number of bimini installations out there, I'm beginning to think that shading from the backstay is more theoretical and real.

?

Perhaps those with split backstays and bimini might comment. ?Is backstay shading a valid concern? ?Are there specific panel arrangements i.e. four 50W panels with separate MPPT controllers vs two 100 W panels with a single controller preferable? ?Are there specific panel brands/models that are more shade tolerant. ?

?

Tim

Tim Sowerby
White Rose S426?
Sausalito CA

?

--?
Randy Drummond
Dazzle S38 mk2 206
Miami

On Mar 2, 2025, at 12:04?PM, Randy Drummond via groups.io <SVReleaseMe@...> wrote:

Yes Everything Dave said. One reason I put another panel on the davits was to surround the radar poll. In the worst case scenario there are always at least two panels in full sun. When the radar dome covers a good portion of a panel it does cut it down a good bit. The back stays really are not noticeable. I have noticed during the middle of the day with high sun, the angle of the sun to the panel makes more of a deference than I would have thought. My two panels on the Bimini are angled slightly outboard and I can see a difference in output when the sun angle slightly favors one side or the other. This has lead me to believe that on average flat is better.?

On Mar 1, 2025, at 12:53?PM, David Lochner via groups.io <davelochner@...> wrote:

Tim,

This is where quality and good design come into play. A panel can be designed to be less affected by shading by how the cells are wired and the quality of the cells.

We have 2 150w Solara panels mounted over the bimini. The split backstay has little discernible effect on the power output. The radar pole has some effect, but I’ve never taken the time to figure out how much, too much work and too many variables to account for. When I look at the daily out put of both panels they are very close to being even. When planning the design expect to get about 3x the nominal output on average; a 100w panel will average 300wh of power. Again, better quality and more efficient panels will tend to do better. Earlier this week my panels were producing a little over 500wh of power each under clear blue skies at ~30° N in late February. In summer they have produced over 600 wh a day each. Total panel output will also depend on battery type and charge state. With LFP batteries the panels stay in the bulk stage for much longer. With LA batteries their output would go in absorption and put out less current.

Another advantage of higher quality panels is smaller size. The Solara’s were 3 or 4” narrower than similar panels from other brands.?

Dave

Second Star

S362 #113

Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

<9FCE91F8-92D1-4B86-AA1B-47EE394D5163_1_105_c.jpeg>d

On Mar 1, 2025, at 11:32?AM, Tim Sowerby via groups.io <tim.sowerby2@...> wrote:

With a split backstay, is there a concern about shading from the stay itself? ? (There's also an issue with shade from pole mounted radar installations.)

?

I understand that some panels have substantially decreased output with very moderate shading whereas others are designed to be shade tolerant. ? ?In many ways the bimini seems like the best place to install flexible panels being out of the way and having less shade than the dodger. ? Considering the number of bimini installations out there, I'm beginning to think that shading from the backstay is more theoretical and real.

?

Perhaps those with split backstays and bimini might comment. ?Is backstay shading a valid concern? ?Are there specific panel arrangements i.e. four 50W panels with separate MPPT controllers vs two 100 W panels with a single controller preferable? ?Are there specific panel brands/models that are more shade tolerant. ?

?

Tim

Tim Sowerby
White Rose S426?
Sausalito CA

?

--?
Randy Drummond
Dazzle S38 mk2 206
Miami

On Mar 2, 2025, at 7:01?AM, Nancy & Bruce via groups.io <alcyone386@...> wrote:

?

Yes, I am interested. August or September would be best for me. Thank you for thinking g of doing this.

Sincerely?

Bruce Hamilton?

Sabre 386 #295

On Sat, Mar 1, 2025, 5:36?PM Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via <rogerkuebel=[email protected]> wrote:

I'm working on organizing an all-Sabre rendezvous in Cuttyhunk (Buzzard's Bay) this coming summer.? If anyone is interested in joining, let me know.

--

Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA

On Mar 1, 2025, at 12:53?PM, David Lochner via groups.io <davelochner@...> wrote:

Tim,

This is where quality and good design come into play. A panel can be designed to be less affected by shading by how the cells are wired and the quality of the cells.

We have 2 150w Solara panels mounted over the bimini. The split backstay has little discernible effect on the power output. The radar pole has some effect, but I’ve never taken the time to figure out how much, too much work and too many variables to account for. When I look at the daily out put of both panels they are very close to being even. When planning the design expect to get about 3x the nominal output on average; a 100w panel will average 300wh of power. Again, better quality and more efficient panels will tend to do better. Earlier this week my panels were producing a little over 500wh of power each under clear blue skies at ~30° N in late February. In summer they have produced over 600 wh a day each. Total panel output will also depend on battery type and charge state. With LFP batteries the panels stay in the bulk stage for much longer. With LA batteries their output would go in absorption and put out less current.

Another advantage of higher quality panels is smaller size. The Solara’s were 3 or 4” narrower than similar panels from other brands.?

Dave

Second Star

S362 #113

Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

<9FCE91F8-92D1-4B86-AA1B-47EE394D5163_1_105_c.jpeg>d

On Mar 1, 2025, at 11:32?AM, Tim Sowerby via groups.io <tim.sowerby2@...> wrote:

With a split backstay, is there a concern about shading from the stay itself? ? (There's also an issue with shade from pole mounted radar installations.)

?

I understand that some panels have substantially decreased output with very moderate shading whereas others are designed to be shade tolerant. ? ?In many ways the bimini seems like the best place to install flexible panels being out of the way and having less shade than the dodger. ? Considering the number of bimini installations out there, I'm beginning to think that shading from the backstay is more theoretical and real.

?

Perhaps those with split backstays and bimini might comment. ?Is backstay shading a valid concern? ?Are there specific panel arrangements i.e. four 50W panels with separate MPPT controllers vs two 100 W panels with a single controller preferable? ?Are there specific panel brands/models that are more shade tolerant. ?

?

Tim

Tim Sowerby
White Rose S426?
Sausalito CA

?