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Re: Preventing kelp from blocking the raw water intake
Barnacles?and strainers: ?As a fresh water sailor I was feeling pretty smug about not needing to worry about barnacles on Arion's engine intake.? Then I remembered how bad invasive mussels?have been the?past couple of years.? I'll keep the strainer but will inspect for?mussels every year from now on.
Kelp removal: ?We don't have kelp here either, but we do get an embarrassing?and disgusting quantity?of plastic bags in our harbor after heavy rains which I imagine might behave like?kelp.? It seems like you wouldn't need to straighten?a disconnected hose for a dowel if you backflushed it with water or a blast of air.? I wonder if anyone has tried either of these methods.? Once again I am unhindered by any actual knowledge?or experience.
Yet again this forum has me thinking about potential problem areas and how to prevent/address them.? Thanks everyone (especially our moderators.)
Mark Lukow sv Arion (34-2) Lake Michigan
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Very nice work Jeff. You have me inspired that this can be repaired.
?
Cheers
?
Bob
?
S42 Vitesse Lake Ontario
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Re: 426 Balmar AltMount belt kit - wrong crank pulley adapter
Last time I contacted Balmar support I used email or the online contact form. The response was very quick, the next business day.?
Dave
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On May 8, 2025, at 11:46?AM, Neil Russell via groups.io <neil.e.russell@...> wrote:
? We have the 105A alternator, and have been collecting belt dust every season, intended to tackle this a couple years ago but never got around to it.
Ordered the AltMount adapter kit, specified my engine (4JH4E).
The crank pulley adapter is completely the wrong part. It is both too large in diameter, and is drilled for 4 holes instead of the 3 holes on the installed crank pulley.
Direct call to Balmar service has not (yet) resulted in a fix.
I find that the Balmar kits for other variants of the 4JH engine appear to ship with a smaller 3 hole crank adapter, I’m waiting for a response from Balmar/Dometic.
—狈别颈濒
neil dot e dot russell at gmail.com
“Whisper II”
S426-034
Salem MA
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426 Balmar AltMount belt kit - wrong crank pulley adapter
We have the 105A alternator, and have been collecting belt dust every season, intended to tackle this a couple years ago but never got around to it.
Ordered the AltMount adapter kit, specified my engine (4JH4E).
The crank pulley adapter is completely the wrong part. It is both too large in diameter, and is drilled for 4 holes instead of the 3 holes on the installed crank pulley.
Direct call to Balmar service has not (yet) resulted in a fix.
I find that the Balmar kits for other variants of the 4JH engine appear to ship with a smaller 3 hole crank adapter, I’m waiting for a response from Balmar/Dometic.
—狈别颈濒
neil dot e dot russell at gmail.com
“Whisper II”
S426-034
Salem MA
|
4 or 5 inch RO sander with 120 grit mesh sanding pad works for the large areas pretty well. Also the mesh pads work pretty well to hand sand the corners etc.
—狈别颈濒
neil dot e dot russell at gmail.com
“Whisper II”
S426-034
Salem MA
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On May 5, 2025, at 9:05?AM, Len Bertaux via groups.io <lbertaux@...> wrote:
I use a s/s wire wheel on a 4” high speed grinder to clean the prop and shaft. Go get a can of Rustoleum zinc primer and spray the prop and shaft to resist that hard growth. Len Bertaux On May 5, 2025, at 8:55?AM, Ted P., 1985 Sabre 32, K/C, Tri-Cabin, Groton CT <tparker@...> wrote:
? My propeller (3 blade autoprop) is covered with smallish barnacles.? What is the best way to clean the prop:? scraping and sanding is tedious.? Would a wire wheel in a drill end up scratching the surface and encourage growth?? Is a flapper wheel in a drill a better approach?? Other great ideas???
?
Thanks!
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A very serious complication with the dreaded maststep disease is
that the rot can migrate to the main bulkhead, which is obscured
by the furniture on main salon side and the Formica covering on
the head side, which makes it very difficult to detect.? I would
have it tested with a moisture meter before I convinced myself
that there were no structural concerns.
When the yard was getting ready to replace my maststep box, they
initially said, "Well, at least the rot hasn't progressed to the
bulkhead."? But once the sole had been ripped apart, they found a
seriously compromised bulkhead.
On 5/8/2025 10:26 AM, Jeff Boyle via
groups.io wrote:
Bob - I also had cosmetic damage (black stains) and some rot
in the plywood immediately around the mast step from water
seepage. No structural concerns.
My solution was to craft a teak and holly plywood inlay to
replace the cosmetic damage. The damaged substrate underneath
was also cut back and new wood screwed and epoxied in place. The
inlay is epoxied down and finished to match the rest of the
sole.
I have access to a pretty sophisticated woodworking shop, and am
very happy with the results. Write me separately if you want to
discuss the project in more detail.?
?
Jeff Boyle
Daystar S425 #79
Chicago, IL
--
Jim Starkey,
AmorphousDB, LLC
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Re: seacock missing handle under sink
Handle should be on the other side. If it’s missing you can put a crescent wrench over the tab that the handle attaches to - not the nuts in the picture.? Replacement handles are available from Spartan.?
Dave Castor? Port Angeles, Wash 1986 S32
Hi
Under the? sink in my sabre 32. 1986 , I found a seacock that I think? is missing a handle .? ? ?Can I still check to see if it is functioning by moving the outer nut with a wrench? or would it be better to buy a handle for it.? ?At this point the boat is going to be launched soon and I'm not going to replace the seacock although maybe that is the best solution.? ?Not sure what brand this is.? ??
?
Thank you.??
?
Gary W?
sabre 32?
|
Bob - I also had cosmetic damage (black stains) and some rot in the plywood immediately around the mast step from water seepage. No structural concerns.
My solution was to craft a teak and holly plywood inlay to replace the cosmetic damage. The damaged substrate underneath was also cut back and new wood screwed and epoxied in place. The inlay is epoxied down and finished to match the rest of the sole.
I have access to a pretty sophisticated woodworking shop, and am very happy with the results. Write me separately if you want to discuss the project in more detail.?
?
Jeff Boyle
Daystar S425 #79
Chicago, IL
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I have that Scanmar ladder on my 38mkI.? It works pretty well.? We leave it rigged and folded up when not in use.? My boat does not have a stern boarding ladder.? We use the Scanmar for swimming off the boat and a step on the other side of the cockpit for boarding from the dinghy.?
?
Andy Kurtz
S38mkI Cayuga
Scituate, MA
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Re: seacock missing handle under sink
Here’s one of the ?link’s: you can also “borrow a handle from another seacock. ?They are replaceable but I service 5 years ago and have operated annually and they are still very much smooth and easy to close. There are options to replace in a recent post and some firmly believe that’s there most important replacement. Not yet high on my list.?
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Stephanie
Arista, S36 #67, Lake Ontario?
Shburgess1207@...?
--
Stephanie
Moderator
Sabre 36, #67
Formerly Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario
Re: seacock missing handle under sink
Spartan seacocks, standard issue. The handle would be on the opposite side from the nuts. To service, follow procedure on Maine how to or the Spartan website. Len Bertaux Walkabout S38mkii Prides crossing MA
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On May 8, 2025, at 8:02?AM, Gary Weiser via groups.io <gaweiser2@...> wrote:
? Hi
Under the? sink in my sabre 32. 1986 , I found a seacock that I think? is missing a handle .? ? ?Can I still check to see if it is functioning by moving the outer nut with a wrench? or would it be better to buy a handle for it.? ?At this point the boat is going to be launched soon and I'm not going to replace the seacock although maybe that is the best solution.? ?Not sure what brand this is.? ??
?
Thank you.??
?
Gary W?
sabre 32?
<IMG_4301.jpg>
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seacock missing handle under sink
Hi
Under the? sink in my sabre 32. 1986 , I found a seacock that I think? is missing a handle .? ? ?Can I still check to see if it is functioning by moving the outer nut with a wrench? or would it be better to buy a handle for it.? ?At this point the boat is going to be launched soon and I'm not going to replace the seacock although maybe that is the best solution.? ?Not sure what brand this is.? ??
?
Thank you.??
?
Gary W?
sabre 32?
|
Re: Class D Fire Extinguisher for LFP ?
Good to know.? Thanks!? It has been over 20 years since I looked into the USCG requirements.? Can see some additional reading in my future. ? ? Brian ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Lochner via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2025 6:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Class D Fire Extinguisher for LFP ?? The 12 years is a USCG requirement in the CFRs. ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
On May 8, 2025, at 6:01?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote: ? Thanks Dave, Pete and Tim.? To say this is an evolving field may be an understatement.? It seems odd the battery User Manual cites Class D extinguishers first in their list, followed by sand and dry chemical.? Possibly a “CYA” ?legal department phrasing??? I have 6 dry chemical A/B/C extinguishers accumulated over a few years, so one might think that would be adequate.? Will check the ages; had not heard of a 12 year life.? Was that a surveyor criteria, ABYC &/or insurance company requirement? ?Thought only requirement was the gauge be in the green.? And recommended to shake them periodically to prevent caking of the chemicals.?? Guess my concern is some underwriter will latch on to the Class D mentioned by the battery manual, which seems superfluous if not ineffective.? Especially as there are different types of Class D extinguisher, one of which is specifically not recommended for lithium batteries.?? I learned first hand about epoxy exothermic reactions decades ago when mixing too much epoxy on deck when filling bolt holes prior to redrilling to better seal the deck penetrations. ?After that always had a larger contain of water available and mixed smaller quantities.?? There is a big difference between a “normal” fire and thermal runaway. LFP batteries are not subject to thermal runaways, if damaged, the electrolyte in the cells can burn in a “normal” way. In a normal fire there are 3 essential ingredients, oxygen, fuel, and heat. In thermal runaway the chemicals in the battery cells react with each other and in the process produce heat that is accelerated by heat, the generates heat which makes the reaction go faster thereby generating more heat which makes the reaction go faster and so on. Once this happens there is no way to stop the reaction, all that can be done is to contain the heat and prevent it from igniting something near buy. Designing a fire resistant space for the batteries and then flooding that space with water will contain it as well as the vermiculite extinguishers mentioned by another member which insulate the battery from combustible material. ?None of this matters for LFP batteries because they can’t go into thermal runaway. To see an example mix some epoxy on a warm day and put it in a small cup. As it reacts and cures it generates heat this causes the reaction to go faster and the epoxy start bubbling and foaming. When I was recently surveyed, the survey wanted to make sure i had he right number of Marine rated extinguishers and they were all current, i.e., not more than 12 years older than the year embossed on the bottom of the tank. Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario The new LFP batteries are on board and getting connected today, along with a MultiPlus and Orion.? Solar in the next week.? In reading the user’s manual for the batteries it recommends if there were to be a fire involving the batteries to “use a Class D extinguisher, sand or a dry powder extinguisher.”? I have multiple dry powder A/B/C extinguishers.? Out of curiosity, does anyone with LFP batteries have a Class D extinguisher on board? ?? A quick search seemed to indicate LFP were a Class B type due to containing liquid electrolyte while Class D extinguishers were for metallic lithium and not for LFP batteries. ?The copper extinguishing agents used in some Class D were specifically not recommended for LFP batteries.? Sodium chloride Class D extinguishers were silent on LFP’s.?? Am trying to anticipate what issues the insurance underwriters may raise, and if by getting the proverbial ducks lined up may improve the process.??
?
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Re: Class D Fire Extinguisher for LFP ?
The 12 years is a USCG requirement in the CFRs.
| |
Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On May 8, 2025, at 6:01?AM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
Thanks Dave, Pete and Tim.? To say this is an evolving field may be an understatement.? It seems odd the battery User Manual cites Class D extinguishers first in their list, followed by sand and dry chemical.? Possibly a “CYA” ?legal department phrasing??? I have 6 dry chemical A/B/C extinguishers accumulated over a few years, so one might think that would be adequate.? Will check the ages; had not heard of a 12 year life.? Was that a surveyor criteria, ABYC &/or insurance company requirement? ?Thought only requirement was the gauge be in the green.? And recommended to shake them periodically to prevent caking of the chemicals.??
?
Guess my concern is some underwriter will latch on to the Class D mentioned by the battery manual, which seems superfluous if not ineffective.? Especially as there are different types of Class D extinguisher, one of which is specifically not recommended for lithium batteries.??
?
I learned first hand about epoxy exothermic reactions decades ago when mixing too much epoxy on deck when filling bolt holes prior to redrilling to better seal the deck penetrations. ?After that always had a larger contain of water available and mixed smaller quantities.??
?
Thanks,
Brian
?
?
There is a big difference between a “normal” fire and thermal runaway. LFP batteries are not subject to thermal runaways, if damaged, the electrolyte in the cells can burn in a “normal” way. In a normal fire there are 3 essential ingredients, oxygen, fuel, and heat. In thermal runaway the chemicals in the battery cells react with each other and in the process produce heat that is accelerated by heat, the generates heat which makes the reaction go faster thereby generating more heat which makes the reaction go faster and so on. Once this happens there is no way to stop the reaction, all that can be done is to contain the heat and prevent it from igniting something near buy. Designing a fire resistant space for the batteries and then flooding that space with water will contain it as well as the vermiculite extinguishers mentioned by another member which insulate the battery from combustible material. ?None of this matters for LFP batteries because they can’t go into thermal runaway.
To see an example mix some epoxy on a warm day and put it in a small cup. As it reacts and cures it generates heat this causes the reaction to go faster and the epoxy start bubbling and foaming.
When I was recently surveyed, the survey wanted to make sure i had he right number of Marine rated extinguishers and they were all current, i.e., not more than 12 years older than the year embossed on the bottom of the tank.
?
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
?
The new LFP batteries are on board and getting connected today, along with a MultiPlus and Orion.? Solar in the next week.? In reading the user’s manual for the batteries it recommends if there were to be a fire involving the batteries to “use a Class D extinguisher, sand or a dry powder extinguisher.”? I have multiple dry powder A/B/C extinguishers.? Out of curiosity, does anyone with LFP batteries have a Class D extinguisher on board? ??
A quick search seemed to indicate LFP were a Class B type due to containing liquid electrolyte while Class D extinguishers were for metallic lithium and not for LFP batteries. ?The copper extinguishing agents used in some Class D were specifically not recommended for LFP batteries.? Sodium chloride Class D extinguishers were silent on LFP’s.??
Am trying to anticipate what issues the insurance underwriters may raise, and if by getting the proverbial ducks lined up may improve the process.??
?
Re: Class D Fire Extinguisher for LFP ?
Thanks Dave, Pete and Tim.? To say this is an evolving field may be an understatement.? It seems odd the battery User Manual cites Class D extinguishers first in their list, followed by sand and dry chemical.? Possibly a “CYA” ?legal department phrasing??? I have 6 dry chemical A/B/C extinguishers accumulated over a few years, so one might think that would be adequate.? Will check the ages; had not heard of a 12 year life.? Was that a surveyor criteria, ABYC &/or insurance company requirement? ?Thought only requirement was the gauge be in the green.? And recommended to shake them periodically to prevent caking of the chemicals.? ? Guess my concern is some underwriter will latch on to the Class D mentioned by the battery manual, which seems superfluous if not ineffective.? Especially as there are different types of Class D extinguisher, one of which is specifically not recommended for lithium batteries.? ? I learned first hand about epoxy exothermic reactions decades ago when mixing too much epoxy on deck when filling bolt holes prior to redrilling to better seal the deck penetrations. ?After that always had a larger contain of water available and mixed smaller quantities.? ? Thanks, Brian ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Lochner via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2025 9:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Class D Fire Extinguisher for LFP ?? There is a big difference between a “normal” fire and thermal runaway. LFP batteries are not subject to thermal runaways, if damaged, the electrolyte in the cells can burn in a “normal” way. In a normal fire there are 3 essential ingredients, oxygen, fuel, and heat. In thermal runaway the chemicals in the battery cells react with each other and in the process produce heat that is accelerated by heat, the generates heat which makes the reaction go faster thereby generating more heat which makes the reaction go faster and so on. Once this happens there is no way to stop the reaction, all that can be done is to contain the heat and prevent it from igniting something near buy. Designing a fire resistant space for the batteries and then flooding that space with water will contain it as well as the vermiculite extinguishers mentioned by another member which insulate the battery from combustible material. ?None of this matters for LFP batteries because they can’t go into thermal runaway. To see an example mix some epoxy on a warm day and put it in a small cup. As it reacts and cures it generates heat this causes the reaction to go faster and the epoxy start bubbling and foaming. When I was recently surveyed, the survey wanted to make sure i had he right number of Marine rated extinguishers and they were all current, i.e., not more than 12 years older than the year embossed on the bottom of the tank. ? Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
On May 6, 2025, at 4:58?PM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote: ? The new LFP batteries are on board and getting connected today, along with a MultiPlus and Orion.? Solar in the next week.? In reading the user’s manual for the batteries it recommends if there were to be a fire involving the batteries to “use a Class D extinguisher, sand or a dry powder extinguisher.”? I have multiple dry powder A/B/C extinguishers.? Out of curiosity, does anyone with LFP batteries have a Class D extinguisher on board? ?? A quick search seemed to indicate LFP were a Class B type due to containing liquid electrolyte while Class D extinguishers were for metallic lithium and not for LFP batteries. ?The copper extinguishing agents used in some Class D were specifically not recommended for LFP batteries.? Sodium chloride Class D extinguishers were silent on LFP’s.?? Am trying to anticipate what issues the insurance underwriters may raise, and if by getting the proverbial ducks lined up may improve the process.??
?
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These look like the exact same products. ?I think they are. ?
 
Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.
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On May 7, 2025, at 8:37?PM, Carter Brey via groups.io <carter.brey@...> wrote:
? Same idea:
?
https://mysticstainless.com/the-foldaway.html
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Same idea:
?
https://mysticstainless.com/the-foldaway.html
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Re: CNG Compressed Natural Gas Refilling Near Northport LI NY
| |
Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.
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On May 7, 2025, at 4:06?PM, David Nehring via groups.io <sabre38mk1@...> wrote:
?
Keep looking
Hello,
I purchased my Sabre 28 from Connecticutwith a filled CNG tank last year, but the gauge is now showing it is getting low.? It appears that my Kenyon model 219 stove was converted from propane to CNG because it still has a tag indicating propane as the fuel type but a sticker was tacked on to indicate CNG. ?
?
It appears that CNG is hard to find these days, so what should I do?. Do I keep looking for
CNG or do I convert or replace the stove?
?
--
David Garcia
1984 Sabre 28 Mark III
Northport, Long Island, NY
Re: Class D Fire Extinguisher for LFP ?
There is a big difference between a “normal” fire and thermal runaway. LFP batteries are not subject to thermal runaways, if damaged, the electrolyte in the cells can burn in a “normal” way. In a normal fire there are 3 essential ingredients, oxygen, fuel, and heat. In thermal runaway the chemicals in the battery cells react with each other and in the process produce heat that is accelerated by heat, the generates heat which makes the reaction go faster thereby generating more heat which makes the reaction go faster and so on. Once this happens there is no way to stop the reaction, all that can be done is to contain the heat and prevent it from igniting something near buy. Designing a fire resistant space for the batteries and then flooding that space with water will contain it as well as the vermiculite extinguishers mentioned by another member which insulate the battery from combustible material. ?None of this matters for LFP batteries because they can’t go into thermal runaway.
To see an example mix some epoxy on a warm day and put it in a small cup. As it reacts and cures it generates heat this causes the reaction to go faster and the epoxy start bubbling and foaming.
When I was recently surveyed, the survey wanted to make sure i had he right number of Marine rated extinguishers and they were all current, i.e., not more than 12 years older than the year embossed on the bottom of the tank.
Dave Second Star S362 #113 Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On May 6, 2025, at 4:58?PM, Nauset Beach via groups.io <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
The new LFP batteries are on board and getting connected today, along with a MultiPlus and Orion.? Solar in the next week.? In reading the user’s manual for the batteries it recommends if there were to be a fire involving the batteries to “use a Class D extinguisher, sand or a dry powder extinguisher.”? I have multiple dry powder A/B/C extinguishers.? Out of curiosity, does anyone with LFP batteries have a Class D extinguisher on board? ?? ? A quick search seemed to indicate LFP were a Class B type due to containing liquid electrolyte while Class D extinguishers were for metallic lithium and not for LFP batteries. ?The copper extinguishing agents used in some Class D were specifically not recommended for LFP batteries.? Sodium chloride Class D extinguishers were silent on LFP’s.?? ? Am trying to anticipate what issues the insurance underwriters may raise, and if by getting the proverbial ducks lined up may improve the process.?? ? Thanks, Brian Escapade? S426 CT / LIS
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Thank you, Phil
?
Bought 8" of stern tube from RE Thompson in Handcock Maine.? They are an amazing marine machine shop.? Gave the guy a $20 and he cut off a piece.??
?
My boat used exhaust hose.? The packing gland is 1.75 OD, the old stern tube a bit larger that 1.5 OD.? ?Purchase a new Buck Algonquin gland and pipe for 1.5 that matches the new 1.5" stern tube for the 1" staft.
?
Hopefully when this is all back together, I'll create a bit more space between the coupling and gland.? ?Currently it is amazingly tight.??
?
Tim
S-34
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Bob Fields
Jim Starkey
Jeff Boyle
Stephanie
Len Bertaux
Carter Brey
