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Jorgen:
Allison¡¯s comment reminded me of an upholstery shop that does custom work on classic & modern cars, has worked on boats, and does a fair amount of commercial & residential work. Try Carthom Upholstery Corp. in New Rochelle (at the entrance of
New Rochelle Municipal Marina). I used to winter there before the garage replacement project, and they had a variety of projects going on.
Good luck,
Franz Alvarez
S/V Tranquility, S38 MKII
A few boats down from you! ;-)
Get
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Jorgen I did a headliner many years ago and it is a huge amount of work. ?The few things I did we low density coat and spray adhesive we also used monel staples to attach to panels. ?If it is too big a job for you, try going to an auto upholstery
shop
Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allisonleh@... ? ? ??
On Apr 13, 2025, at 5:51?PM, Jorgen Naess via groups.io <joergen.naess@...> wrote:
?
I have started the headliner repair project on my S452. Naugahyde (vinyl) and 3M 76 adhesive has been purchased. I also bought some high density 1/8 foam for a few areas needing a full repair. I have removed most of the plywood ceiling panels from the
main cabin. Planning to do the work at home.
?
Also, to practice ahead of time I bought extra plywood. Today, after practicing, I am afraid the results do not look that good. I have decided I need professional help to complete this. As the headliner is a high-visibility item it needs to look great.
?
So, question to the group; can anyone recommend a reputable boat/marine upholsterer somewhere in the NY Metro, CT or Long Island area? I am also actively searching as of this writing.
?
Thank very much in advance!
?
Jorgen Naess
2001 Sabre 452, VENTO
Winter: Mamaroneck, NY
Summer: Greenport, NY
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
-- Franz Alvarez S/V Tranquility - S38MKII
|
Jorgen I did a headliner many years ago and it is a huge amount of work. ?The few things I did we low density coat and spray adhesive we also used monel staples to attach to panels. ?If it is too big a job for you, try going to an auto upholstery shop Allison Lehman Swiftsure Yachts 510 912-5800 cell 510 860-4640 fax allisonleh@... ? ? ??
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On Apr 13, 2025, at 5:51?PM, Jorgen Naess via groups.io <joergen.naess@...> wrote:
? I have started the headliner repair project on my S452. Naugahyde (vinyl) and 3M 76 adhesive has been purchased. I also bought some high density 1/8 foam for a few areas needing a full repair. I have removed most of the plywood ceiling panels from the main cabin. Planning to do the work at home.
?
Also, to practice ahead of time I bought extra plywood. Today, after practicing, I am afraid the results do not look that good. I have decided I need professional help to complete this. As the headliner is a high-visibility item it needs to look great.
?
So, question to the group; can anyone recommend a reputable boat/marine upholsterer somewhere in the NY Metro, CT or Long Island area? I am also actively searching as of this writing.
?
Thank very much in advance!
?
Jorgen Naess
2001 Sabre 452, VENTO
Winter: Mamaroneck, NY
Summer: Greenport, NY
?
--
Allison
S426 Kingfisher
SF Bay/Pacifc Northwest
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
Verne I have the P79 mounted in my Shamrock fishing boat, solid glass hull. It is connected to a Garmin MFD with CHIRP sonar. It works great, provides accurate depth, structure, bottom density and fish. I would say TMI for sailing. The deepest I¡¯ve been in was 90¡¯ and got good readings.?
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On Apr 13, 2025, at 3:49?PM, Jeff Bartlett via groups.io <Jhbartlett@...> wrote:
? Verne,
?
Two years ago (summer 2023) I sent my DataMarine wind masthead unit to DMI Marine in MA.? They were able to rebuild it, and it has been working fine since.
?
They were moving locations in 2024 and it isn't clear to me if they've reopened/are still in business but probably worth a shot if you haven't checked on them.? Their website is still up with an email address.??
?
?
--
Jeff B
1988 Sabre 34-2, 347
S/V Northwood
Deale, MD
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
?Brian,
Attached are the photos of my masonite templates for solar panel backing plate plates. ?Four photos show the templates mounted on top of the Bimini. ?Note the problems with gaps between the canvas and the template. ?One photo shows the template mounted under the Bimini and over the center ridge pipe, and one photo shows a template (simulating a solar panels) mounted directly over the backing plate under the Bimini in the previous photo. ?This is the plan I will use. ?The tech guy at Custom Marine Products thinks it¡¯s an excellent idea and gave it his blessing, for whatever that¡¯s worth. ?My local canvass guy likes it too, and says modification to the center pipe zipper can be done at reasonable cost.
As previously stated I plan to make the actual backing plates out of 1/4¡± StarBoard with the edges rounded off because I think it is much better suited to the marine environment. I will mount the backing plates and the panels with appropriate length 10x24 bolts a washers in the fashion of the bolt kit available through Custom Marine Products. ?I will also have some grommets and 2¡± squares of reinforcing canvass add to the bolt holes, again at minimal cost.
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1 #77
Hudson River
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Dave,?
So helpful as usual. ?Thanks again.
Don
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Brian,?
I am having difficulty sending the photos. ?Will try again sometime in the early part of this week.
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1?
Hudson River
|
I have started the headliner repair project on my S452. Naugahyde (vinyl) and 3M 76 adhesive has been purchased. I also bought some high density 1/8 foam for a few areas needing a full repair. I have removed most of the plywood ceiling panels from the main cabin. Planning to do the work at home.
?
Also, to practice ahead of time I bought extra plywood. Today, after practicing, I am afraid the results do not look that good. I have decided I need professional help to complete this. As the headliner is a high-visibility item it needs to look great.
?
So, question to the group; can anyone recommend a reputable boat/marine upholsterer somewhere in the NY Metro, CT or Long Island area? I am also actively searching as of this writing.
?
Thank very much in advance!
?
Jorgen Naess
2001 Sabre 452, VENTO
Winter: Mamaroneck, NY
Summer: Greenport, NY
?
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Don,
There are so many variables that contribute to real life panel performance, it is important to not get too caught up in ¡°precise numbers.¡± I think Calder uses the nominal voltage for his estimate, 12v. Anything from bird poop, to salt and dust buildup, to clouds, and shading can degrade panel performance. And in practice my Solar panels rarely hit the 150w output they are rated for. Even direction of travel. Today heading north under absolutely clear skies, my starboard panel produced 890 Wh. The port panel, next to the radar pole only produced 300 Wh due to shading a really small portion of the panel, this all because the sun was behind us. Had we been heading south, both panels would have produced in the same neighborhood. Nonetheless, I was still happy with the 1200 Wh (100ah) they produced, more than I ?consumed today.
My understanding of flexible panels is they are designed to flex over a firm surface, like a curved cabin top or hard dodger or bimini and not designed to be flexed. There are very fine wires and connectors in the panels, repeated flexing can cause these to break. The advice to mount them on something that won¡¯t flex as much is good advice.?
Separating the panels into port and starboard makes more sense to me over orienting them athwartship. A shadow from the mast or sails will affect both panels if mounted athwartship but only one panel if the panels are oriented fore and aft.
Here¡¯s the Calder article I referenced. It is getting a bit dated, however the basic information is still valid.
|
Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Apr 13, 2025, at 8:11?PM, Oceans via groups.io <oceans100t@...> wrote:
Dave,?
Thanks for the valuable info from Nigel Calder. ?So much for the advice of the marketing departments! ?
FYI, The panels under consideration are Semi-flexible - SunPower Monocrystalline - Shade Tolerant as sold by Custom Marine Products. ? The Ocv for the 120W is 23.1, for the 140W is 25, and for the 155W is 28.9. ?Cell Efficiency for all panels is 24.4%, and all are Grade A+ SunPower cells. ?I'd like to believe these are reasonably high quality panels. ?Please confirm or deny my assumption. ?Each of the 3 panels will be connected to separate Victron Smart Solar MPPT 75-15 Solar Controllers. ?Is a rough estimate of improved efficiency with these cells and controllers possible?
Using Calder's formula, for the 465W array I am dividing the 1400Wh by 12.8v to get 109Ah/day, and for the 395W array x 3 = 1185Wh/12.8 = 93Ah/day. ?Does the formula call for division by 12.8 for AGM's or some other value like 12.0 or 13.0?
?
Brian,
I too have been working through the challenge of how to best place the panels on the Bimini. ?Custom Marine suggests using a sheet of 4mm Policarb-Double Walled under the solar panel to smooth out sharp the curve of the center bow to allow the panels to be placed lengthwise rather than athwart ship. ?I was concerned concerned about UV degradation when I researched this product. ?One of the flat sides is UV protected but the sides, which would be also exposed to sunlight, are not. ?
I cut some 1/4" masonite to match the size of the panels as an experiment and realized they do a nice job of smoothing out the sharp ridge caused by the center bow. ?I then tried placing the masonite on the bottom of the Bimini and it worked even better. ?As a result I plan to use 1/4" Starboard under the Bimini by modifying the center zipper to hold the pipe in place. ?I will send photos in a separate email.
?
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1 #77
Hudson River
?
?
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
Dave,?
Thanks for the valuable info from Nigel Calder. ?So much for the advice of the marketing departments! ?
FYI, The panels under consideration are Semi-flexible - SunPower Monocrystalline - Shade Tolerant as sold by Custom Marine Products. ? The Ocv for the 120W is 23.1, for the 140W is 25, and for the 155W is 28.9. ?Cell Efficiency for all panels is 24.4%, and all are Grade A+ SunPower cells. ?I'd like to believe these are reasonably high quality panels. ?Please confirm or deny my assumption. ?Each of the 3 panels will be connected to separate Victron Smart Solar MPPT 75-15 Solar Controllers. ?Is a rough estimate of improved efficiency with these cells and controllers possible?
Using Calder's formula, for the 465W array I am dividing the 1400Wh by 12.8v to get 109Ah/day, and for the 395W array x 3 = 1185Wh/12.8 = 93Ah/day. ?Does the formula call for division by 12.8 for AGM's or some other value like 12.0 or 13.0?
?
Brian,
I too have been working through the challenge of how to best place the panels on the Bimini. ?Custom Marine suggests using a sheet of 4mm Policarb-Double Walled under the solar panel to smooth out sharp the curve of the center bow to allow the panels to be placed lengthwise rather than athwart ship. ?I was concerned concerned about UV degradation when I researched this product. ?One of the flat sides is UV protected but the sides, which would be also exposed to sunlight, are not. ?
I cut some 1/4" masonite to match the size of the panels as an experiment and realized they do a nice job of smoothing out the sharp ridge caused by the center bow. ?I then tried placing the masonite on the bottom of the Bimini and it worked even better. ?As a result I plan to use 1/4" Starboard under the Bimini by modifying the center zipper to hold the pipe in place. ?I will send photos in a separate email.
?
Don Fleming
Duet
S-38-1 #77
Hudson River
?
?
|
Re: Solar Panels on Bimini with Split Backstay
We did this out of 1" tubing mounted on top of the bimini frame. 4 panels, 700 watts. The bimini window can see between the panels.  
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
Verne,
?
Two years ago (summer 2023) I sent my DataMarine wind masthead unit to DMI Marine in MA.? They were able to rebuild it, and it has been working fine since.
?
They were moving locations in 2024 and it isn't clear to me if they've reopened/are still in business but probably worth a shot if you haven't checked on them.? Their website is still up with an email address.??
?
?
--
Jeff B
1988 Sabre 34-2, 347
S/V Northwood
Deale, MD
|
Re: Epoch 12V 460Ah LFP battery on Sabre 362?
I can tell you first hand that two Epoch 12v 300ah fit perfectly under the starboard settee on a 362, I just finished upgrading my electrical system with the help Jordan who is a regular contributor here. We went with a Victron Phoenix IP43 for the charger, 2 - 210w Solar panels, 2 - Victron MPPT Solar charge controllers, a Victron Orion DC-DC, and a Victron Lynx distributor.?
?
Dave
SV Indulgence
362 #229
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
On a previous boat I had a wireless B&G wind sensor with N2K connection to a B&G Zeus. Worked great with no wires clanking in the mast. Easy to take off for mast down storage. Bill Kellner S32 Sandusky Ohio
On Sun, Apr 13, 2025 at 12:43?PM Verne Royster 85 Sabre 32 About er So, I save up, buy na new Raymarine Axiom+9RV? and Quantum 2 Doppler radar combo, they will be wired in next week sometime...only to take the boat out Wednesday and notice my wind direction indicator works but the speed cups are not moving.? No wind speed data. What are my options??
?
I can't seem to find just a replacement for the wind direction indicator and the anemometer at the top of the mast.? (I don't want to buy used. Don't really know what I would be getting.)
Anyone know if this - guessing - 10 plus year Datamarine display at the helm would connect to newer Raymarine atop the mast?? I am guessing, just guessing, the current signal is 0183?? I know they make a 0183 to NEMA 2000, do they make a NEMA 2000 to 0183 going the other direction? - AND OR - does my current Datamarine display connect to the current SeaTalk or RayNet?? If so, can I buy just a new arm with wind direction and speed cups?
?
The local electronics? tech is about to move the birds nest of connections of my SeaTalk from under the starboard v-birth to the storage locker up near the companion way.? So now would be the time to fix this, adding a little scope creep to my install project.
?
So, is it time to bite an even bigger bullet and replace the whole thing for a project cost of almost $2K.Please someone give me a good answer to save some dollars here!
?
My running riggers suggested I go wireless and use the new Axiom+9RV as the display.? But, that seems to be a crowded display in that scenario?? Bottom pic, Nav screen,? adding wind speed and direction too?? I just want and wish wish I could just use my existing Datamarine display at the helm and only replace what is needed topside the mast.
?
**ALSO - side note - I just bought a new Airmar P79 Transducer (internal) to give me bottom views and depth for the Axiom+9RV.? Anyone have any experience with how well that will or won't work?
?
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated !
?
Verne
Sabre 32 "About Time"
MYC - Mobile Al
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
I was able to re-use the cable when I replaced an old Standard Horizon system with a new Raymarine system. I had to splice the wires at the top of the mast so that will be a weak point but it¡¯s been working ok for several years. But I think the sensors and the indicator will both have to be replaced.?
Dave Castor? Port Angeles, Wash 1986 S32 On Sun, Apr 13, 2025 at 9:43?AM Verne Royster 85 Sabre 32 About Time via <vroyster= [email protected]> wrote:
So, I save up, buy a new Raymarine Axiom+9RV? and Quantum 2 Doppler radar combo, they will be wired in next week sometime...only to take the boat out Wednesday and notice my wind direction indicator works but the speed cups are not moving.? No wind speed data. What are my options??
?
I can't seem to find just a replacement for the wind direction indicator and the anemometer at the top of the mast.? (I don't want to buy used. Don't really know what I would be getting.)
Anyone know if this - guessing - 10 plus year Datamarine display at the helm would connect to newer Raymarine atop the mast?? I am guessing, just guessing, the current signal is 0183?? I know they make a 0183 to NEMA 2000, do they make a NEMA 2000 to 0183 going the other direction? - AND OR - does my current Datamarine display connect to the current SeaTalk or RayNet?? If so, can I buy just a new arm with wind direction and speed cups?
?
The local electronics? tech is about to move the birds nest of connections of my SeaTalk from under the starboard v-birth to the storage locker up near the companion way.? So now would be the time to fix this, adding a little scope creep to my install project.
?
So, is it time to bite an even bigger bullet and replace the whole thing for a project cost of almost $2K.Please someone give me a good answer to save some dollars here!
?
My running riggers suggested I go wireless and use the new Axiom+9RV as the display.? But, that seems to be a crowded display in that scenario?? Bottom pic, Nav screen,? adding wind speed and direction too?? I just want and wish wish I could just use my existing Datamarine display at the helm and only replace what is needed topside the mast.
?
**ALSO - side note - I just bought a new Airmar P79 Transducer (internal) to give me bottom views and depth for the Axiom+9RV.? Anyone have any experience with how well that will or won't work?
?
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated !
?
Verne
Sabre 32 "About Time"
MYC - Mobile Al
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
What Jim said. You can't get the DMI masthead unit to talk to anything other than the DMI display. I replaced mine with ?Raymarine ST60 which was a great upgrade as it talks to both my Vesper system and Simrad autopilot. I preferred the hardwired sensors as I was going up the mast anyway to install the new sensor and pulling the new cable through the mast wasn't that big a deal (with help of course).
--
Sabre 38-2 #164
|
Re: Epoch 12V 460Ah LFP battery on Sabre 362?
Brian, thank you for reminding me to check with insurance on LFP conversion and for the other tips.? I need to do some more reading and checking.
Dave, I hear you about single point of failure. Two lighter batteries is also attractive. Bill G
On Sun, Apr 13, 2025 at 5:14?AM Nauset Beach via <nausetbeach= [email protected]> wrote: Bill, ? I am looking at the Epoch batteries as well, and did read [possibly in Panbo] the Victron comms in that battery were a bit sketchy and speculation was it would take a while to work the bugs out.? That seems to be the major advantage over the Essentials 460, which also is a shorter height at 8.6¡± [but longer] vs. the 12¡± of the Elite.? Is also IP54 vs IP67 so not waterproof, just water resistant.? But it will not be in an open bay like on an RV or van.? That same article indicated one could get the same information using a Victron Smart Shunt with the Essentials.? ? Also read some insurance companies either do not cover LFP, or have very specific requirements if one is making the switch, like having to use a certified ABYC electrician in addition to following all the manufacturer¡¯s installation instructions and charging / maintenance protocols. Unfortunately, according to various online forums, my insurance company seems to be one of the one¡¯s which does not cover LFP.? Need to confirm with them this week.? ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT - LIS ? ? Hi all, I've been holding off on LFP battery conversion but the tariff thing is alarming so I'm considering the substantial purchase of an Epoch?12V 460Ah V2 Elite Series battery? for our 362.? Does anyone know if this particular Group D size battery fits under the starboard berth?? This battery is quite a bit taller than the Group 31s I have in there now (and I'm away from the boat and can't measure).? I realize there's more to LFP conversion than swapping the battery. 2003 S362 #261 'Souwester'
|
Re: Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
Sorry, but there is no hope.? The connections between masthead
wind sensors and displays were totally proprietary in that era.?
More specifically, Database used an 8 wire connection and
Raymarine (then if not now) a 5 wire connection.? Neither is NMEA
0183 or anything remotely standard.
On 4/13/2025 12:43 PM, Verne Royster 85
Sabre 32 About Time via groups.io wrote:
So, I save up, buy a new Raymarine Axiom+9RV? and Quantum 2
Doppler radar combo, they will be wired in next week
sometime...only to take the boat out Wednesday and notice my
wind direction indicator works but the speed cups are not
moving.? No wind speed data. What are my options??
?
I can't seem to find just a replacement for the wind
direction indicator and the anemometer at the top of the mast.?
(I don't want to buy used. Don't really know what I would be
getting.)
Anyone know if this - guessing - 10 plus year Datamarine
display at the helm would connect to newer Raymarine atop the
mast?? I am guessing, just guessing, the current signal is
0183?? I know they make a 0183 to NEMA 2000, do they make a NEMA
2000 to 0183 going the other direction? - AND OR - does my
current Datamarine display connect to the current SeaTalk or
RayNet?? If so, can I buy just a new arm with wind direction and
speed cups?
?
The local electronics? tech is about to move the birds nest
of connections of my SeaTalk from under the starboard v-birth to
the storage locker up near the companion way.? So now would be
the time to fix this, adding a little scope creep to my install
project.
?
So, is it time to bite an even bigger bullet and replace the
whole thing for a project cost of almost $2K.Please someone give
me a good answer to save some dollars here!
?
My running riggers suggested I go wireless and use the new
Axiom+9RV as the display.? But, that seems to be a crowded
display in that scenario?? Bottom pic, Nav screen,? adding wind
speed and direction too?? I just want and wish wish I could just
use my existing Datamarine display at the helm and only replace
what is needed topside the mast.
?
**ALSO - side note - I just bought a new Airmar P79
Transducer (internal) to give me bottom views and depth for the
Axiom+9RV.? Anyone have any experience with how well that will
or won't work?
?
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated !
?
Verne
Sabre 32 "About Time"
MYC - Mobile Al
--
Jim Starkey,
AmorphousDB, LLC
|
Datamarine Anemometer- wind speed cups aren't moving
So, I save up, buy a new Raymarine Axiom+9RV? and Quantum 2 Doppler radar combo, they will be wired in next week sometime...only to take the boat out Wednesday and notice my wind direction indicator works but the speed cups are not moving.? No wind speed data. What are my options??
?
I can't seem to find just a replacement for the wind direction indicator and the anemometer at the top of the mast.? (I don't want to buy used. Don't really know what I would be getting.)
Anyone know if this - guessing - 10 plus year Datamarine display at the helm would connect to newer Raymarine atop the mast?? I am guessing, just guessing, the current signal is 0183?? I know they make a 0183 to NEMA 2000, do they make a NEMA 2000 to 0183 going the other direction? - AND OR - does my current Datamarine display connect to the current SeaTalk or RayNet?? If so, can I buy just a new arm with wind direction and speed cups?
?
The local electronics? tech is about to move the birds nest of connections of my SeaTalk from under the starboard v-birth to the storage locker up near the companion way.? So now would be the time to fix this, adding a little scope creep to my install project.
?
So, is it time to bite an even bigger bullet and replace the whole thing for a project cost of almost $2K.Please someone give me a good answer to save some dollars here!
?
My running riggers suggested I go wireless and use the new Axiom+9RV as the display.? But, that seems to be a crowded display in that scenario?? Bottom pic, Nav screen,? adding wind speed and direction too?? I just want and wish wish I could just use my existing Datamarine display at the helm and only replace what is needed topside the mast.
?
**ALSO - side note - I just bought a new Airmar P79 Transducer (internal) to give me bottom views and depth for the Axiom+9RV.? Anyone have any experience with how well that will or won't work?
?
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated !
?
Verne
Sabre 32 "About Time"
MYC - Mobile Al
|
Re: Epoch 12V 460Ah LFP battery on Sabre 362?
Bill, ? I am looking at the Epoch batteries as well, and did read [possibly in Panbo] the Victron comms in that battery were a bit sketchy and speculation was it would take a while to work the bugs out.? That seems to be the major advantage over the Essentials 460, which also is a shorter height at 8.6¡± [but longer] vs. the 12¡± of the Elite.? Is also IP54 vs IP67 so not waterproof, just water resistant.? But it will not be in an open bay like on an RV or van.? That same article indicated one could get the same information using a Victron Smart Shunt with the Essentials.? ? Also read some insurance companies either do not cover LFP, or have very specific requirements if one is making the switch, like having to use a certified ABYC electrician in addition to following all the manufacturer¡¯s installation instructions and charging / maintenance protocols. Unfortunately, according to various online forums, my insurance company seems to be one of the one¡¯s which does not cover LFP.? Need to confirm with them this week.? ? Brian Escapade? S426 CT - LIS ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Graves via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2025 11:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Epoch 12V 460Ah LFP battery on Sabre 362?? Hi all, I've been holding off on LFP battery conversion but the tariff thing is alarming so I'm considering the substantial purchase of an Epoch?12V 460Ah V2 Elite Series battery? for our 362.? Does anyone know if this particular Group D size battery fits under the starboard berth?? This battery is quite a bit taller than the Group 31s I have in there now (and I'm away from the boat and can't measure).? I realize there's more to LFP conversion than swapping the battery. 2003 S362 #261 'Souwester'
|
Re: Sabre 38 Mk2 rod rigging open style turnbuckles
Thanks Len,
?
I¡¯ll talk to the rigger about that. From what I understand, it means taking the rig out anyway because rod rigging is not done locally.?
--
Pete Waterson
¡°°ä³ó²¹°ù»å´Ç²Ô²Ô²¹²â¡±
S38-2
Oriental, NC
|
Jorgen Naess
LRG
Bill Graves
Jim Starkey
Pete Waterson