Re: Alternatives to Starlink
On 2/25/25 13:07, Jim Starkey via groups.io wrote: Electronics keep getting cheaper, better, more reliable, and easier to use. Hurray!? Hurray! and unrelated? (to boating) vendors keep making up new services. I just saw the latest from T-mobile advertised last night, T-Mobile/Starlink with a free betas period open to all cell phone users who sign up. Steve Ellis Cloud Nine, S34MKII
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Re: Electric Head with Macerator
And is the macerator connected to Starlink ?
Charlie McMillan
McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct ?06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile?
Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. Nothing against macerators here.
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On Feb 25, 2025, at 1:00 PM, Tim Rivard via < tarivard@...> wrote:
Has anyone converted to an electric head with a macerator on a 38 MKII?
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
Agree Kim,
And I can speak from first person regarding your heart surgeon analogy I really don’t love my surgeon (very arrogant) but I’m alive;)
We need starlink for medical and work while sailing in remote places. It is enabling us to be able to sail where otherwise we would not be able for both financial and medical reasons.
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On Feb 25, 2025, at 8:13?AM, Kimberly Paternoster via groups.io <kim@...> wrote:
?
Not to mention Ronnie Simpson dismasting on the other side of the horn last year, and Starlink saved his life. Our friend Andy Schwenk, who almost went septic on the way back
from Hawaii last year specifically told me this year he would be installing Starlink as part of his safety equipment. He almost lost his life, and he believes firmly that had he had Starlink, he would have been able to send the doctors pictures of what was
happening while he was getting sicker and sicker.
?
And for some of us, Starlink is necessary because we are still working.
?
kim
?
?
I beg to differ.? Here are three examples where better communications led to better results:
Arguing against better communication is always a losing proposition.
On 2/25/2025 10:00 AM, James Wilson via groups.io wrote:
Your best chance of survival in an emergency is an EPIRB, or secondarily a PLB, or thirdly a portable VHF radio in a liferaft.? Internet access and satellite phones are a joke.
**
James H. Wilson, Jr.
Attorney & Counsellor at Law
By appt. only:
4860 Cox Road, Suite 200
Glen Allen, VA 23060
804-740-6464
jameswilson29@...
?
?
In that case you better give up your cell phones and stop watching streaming services, because SpaceX is putting up a lot of commercial satellites. Not to mention start avoiding many marinas and boat yards, because there are plenty of arrogant
jackasses there. And bars. And restaurants. Not defending Musk (albeit he is the ONLY person that keeps the US space business going), just trying to point out futility of such gestures. And if you are in trouble without the Starlink, now you are putting lives
of potential rescuers at risk. Maybe should rethink your approach a bit.?
--
Jim Starkey, AmorphousDB, LLC
--
?
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
Wooden Ships. Iron Men!
-- Gerald (Jerry) Brecher SIRACH 1982 Sabre 38 Mk I
488 Pleasant Street
North Andover, MA 01845 USA
mobile: 617-510-5133
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
Agree, Jim. I’ve never heard a rational pilot or mariner say we need less communications capability. Also, I recall once seeing the Block Island ferry leaving for New London with a full parade of powerboats of all sizes following.?
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On Feb 25, 2025, at 1:08 PM, Jim Starkey via groups.io <Jim@...> wrote:
?
As a certified old fart, I've heard these arguments applied to
VHF, Loran, Radar, GPS, and AIS.? Going back to the Sailnet Sabre
list, there was broad consensus that radar was very dangerous
because it was impractical to carry a full set of spare modules
and if you got dependent on it you could find yourself in danger
in the fog.? And there was the fellow who argued that he didn't
radar because you could broadcast his latitude and longitude on
VHF 16 and the Penobscot ferries could steer around him.
Non-sense.? Anything that makes sailing safer and more enjoyable
is a good thing (I will concede that in the pre-radar bad-old-days
the complete idiots stayed in port in a fog, which was a big
plus).
Electronics keep getting cheaper, better, more reliable, and
easier to use.? Hurray!? Hurray!? This is nothing but good.? And a
chart/plotter doesn't need a nautical almanac, sight reduction
forms, paper charts, drafting instruments, and logarithm tables to
find out where you are (and the chart/plotter works in the fog!).
On 2/25/2025 10:42 AM, James Wilson via
groups.io wrote:
The
difference is one of attitude.? It seems a lot of new
sailors cannot tell the difference between an inconvenience
and a true emergency.? Your boat is sinking or on fire =
emergency.? You lose electrical power, the engine won't
start, there are big waves and strong winds, and you have
some water ingress = inconvenience. Old school sailors
believe in self-reliance; new sailors cry for help at the
drop of a hat.? Old school sailor rescued themselves in the
event of a dismasting?or took to a liferaft if the boat was
really sinking; new school sailors are a bunch of babies who
call for help when the freezer and a/c don't work, then
think the USCG will take them back out to their boats to
retrieve it.? New school sailors need internet access and
satellite phones.
**
James H. Wilson, Jr.
Attorney & Counsellor at Law
By appt. only:
4860 Cox Road, Suite 200
Glen Allen, VA 23060
804-740-6464
jameswilson29@...
**
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at
10:17?AM PIOTR SERWIK via <cuivier1= [email protected]>
wrote:
EPIBR and PLB simply send an SOS/Mayday, and VHF is very
limited distance-wise. So not compatible at all. Regardless,
I'm not about to extoll virtues of Starlink, but I was in
situations without ability to communicate in a State-wide
emergencies, and would have paid any price to be able to
communicate.?
--
Jim Starkey,
AmorphousDB, LLC
|
Re: Alternatives to Starlink
Not to mention Ronnie Simpson dismasting on the other side of the horn last year, and Starlink saved his life. Our friend Andy Schwenk, who almost went septic on the way back from Hawaii last year specifically told me this year he would be installing Starlink as part of his safety equipment. He almost lost his life, and he believes firmly that had he had Starlink, he would have been able to send the doctors pictures of what was happening while he was getting sicker and sicker. ? And for some of us, Starlink is necessary because we are still working. ? kim ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Starkey via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2025 8:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Alternatives to Starlink? I beg to differ.? Here are three examples where better communications led to better results: Arguing against better communication is always a losing proposition. On 2/25/2025 10:00 AM, James Wilson via groups.io wrote: Your best chance of survival in an emergency is an EPIRB, or secondarily a PLB, or thirdly a portable VHF radio in a liferaft.? Internet access and satellite phones are a joke.
**
James H. Wilson, Jr.
Attorney & Counsellor at Law By appt. only:
4860 Cox Road, Suite 200
Glen Allen, VA 23060
804-740-6464
jameswilson29@...
? ? In that case you better give up your cell phones and stop watching streaming services, because SpaceX is putting up a lot of commercial satellites. Not to mention start avoiding many marinas and boat yards, because there are plenty of arrogant jackasses there. And bars. And restaurants. Not defending Musk (albeit he is the ONLY person that keeps the US space business going), just trying to point out futility of such gestures. And if you are in trouble without the Starlink, now you are putting lives of potential rescuers at risk. Maybe should rethink your approach a bit.?
--
Jim Starkey, AmorphousDB, LLC
|
The 330s look great ! ? At some point a riser to mount batteries was glassed into my 362 so the vertical clearance of 330s was an issue for me. ? They were my first choice?
?
You may have gotten lucky - M hearing the 330s are no longer in production?
--
Zach
1995 Sabre 362
Houston, TX
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
As a certified old fart, I've heard these arguments applied to
VHF, Loran, Radar, GPS, and AIS.? Going back to the Sailnet Sabre
list, there was broad consensus that radar was very dangerous
because it was impractical to carry a full set of spare modules
and if you got dependent on it you could find yourself in danger
in the fog.? And there was the fellow who argued that he didn't
radar because you could broadcast his latitude and longitude on
VHF 16 and the Penobscot ferries could steer around him.
Non-sense.? Anything that makes sailing safer and more enjoyable
is a good thing (I will concede that in the pre-radar bad-old-days
the complete idiots stayed in port in a fog, which was a big
plus).
Electronics keep getting cheaper, better, more reliable, and
easier to use.? Hurray!? Hurray!? This is nothing but good.? And a
chart/plotter doesn't need a nautical almanac, sight reduction
forms, paper charts, drafting instruments, and logarithm tables to
find out where you are (and the chart/plotter works in the fog!).
On 2/25/2025 10:42 AM, James Wilson via
groups.io wrote:
The
difference is one of attitude.? It seems a lot of new
sailors cannot tell the difference between an inconvenience
and a true emergency.? Your boat is sinking or on fire =
emergency.? You lose electrical power, the engine won't
start, there are big waves and strong winds, and you have
some water ingress = inconvenience. Old school sailors
believe in self-reliance; new sailors cry for help at the
drop of a hat.? Old school sailor rescued themselves in the
event of a dismasting?or took to a liferaft if the boat was
really sinking; new school sailors are a bunch of babies who
call for help when the freezer and a/c don't work, then
think the USCG will take them back out to their boats to
retrieve it.? New school sailors need internet access and
satellite phones.
**
James H. Wilson, Jr.
Attorney & Counsellor at Law
By appt. only:
4860 Cox Road, Suite 200
Glen Allen, VA 23060
804-740-6464
jameswilson29@...
**
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at
10:17?AM PIOTR SERWIK via <cuivier1= [email protected]>
wrote:
EPIBR and PLB simply send an SOS/Mayday, and VHF is very
limited distance-wise. So not compatible at all. Regardless,
I'm not about to extoll virtues of Starlink, but I was in
situations without ability to communicate in a State-wide
emergencies, and would have paid any price to be able to
communicate.?
--
Jim Starkey,
AmorphousDB, LLC
|
Electric Head with Macerator
Has anyone converted to an electric head with a macerator on a 38 MKII?
?
Tim R
38MKII in refit
|
Re: Alternatives to Starlink
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
It should be obvious that the ability to communicate the nature
of the emergency, the number of people on board, the nature of any
injuries, what resources are onboard, an estimate of time before
the vessel must be abandoned, and the skill level of the remaining
able-bodied crew would lead to a better outcome.
Only an idiot would forgo an EPRIB in favor of a Starlink or
sat-phone.? But a Starlink or sat-phone could be invaluable in
many scenarios in addition to the vessel abandonments referenced.
In the past, a vessel going offshore would only take medical
supplies that the crew knew how to use.? With satellite
communications, a vessel can carry a wide range of medication and
get medical advice on what and how to best treat an injured or
very sick crew member.
Incidentally, a Starlink transforms a cell phone with WiFi
calling into a sat-phone.? Very convenient in the various
communication black holes in Maine.
I do agree that taking a Starlink into a life raft is unlikely to
do much good.? But if the Starlink can obviate the need to get
into the life raft in the first place, it's a huge win.
On 2/25/2025 11:56 AM, Jonathan Ganz
via groups.io wrote:
I'm confused. Each one of these links shows that an EPIRB was
used. If electronics fail, Starlink would be useless.?
--
Jim Starkey,
AmorphousDB, LLC
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
Not using Starlink if you need it, just because you hate Elon, is like not getting a necessary heart surgery because you hate the surgeon.?
I hate Elon. But, I need Starlink to work, and it's the best option at the moment. And I need to work.?
Kim
Kimberly Paternoster
Wicked Code, Inc.
https://wickedcode.com
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I'm confused. Each one of these links shows that an EPIRB was used. If electronics fail, Starlink would be useless.?
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
I'm confused. Each one of these links shows that an EPIRB was used. If electronics fail, Starlink would be useless.?
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
There are multiple options for safety
at sea, starting with VHF/DSC (nearshore), SSB (offshore) and
EPIRB. Michael is talking about a coastal cruise, so VHF/DSC is
quite sufficient for him. There is also Globalstar and Iridium.
There is also emergency messaging service on iPhone 16. You don't
NEED Starlink (or any other high-speed Internet service) for
safety.
I read his question as being about
high-speed Internet and phone. That is more of a convenience than
an absolute necessity, but people do need to keep in touch with
their day jobs, family and friends, and want to stream videos,
doom scroll the news, get technical support, buy stuff, etc.?
?
On 2/25/2025 5:59 AM, Jerry Brecher via
groups.io wrote:
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Why would any of us want to compromise our safety
and offshore communications over politics? When I'm crossing the
North Atlantic East to West this summer, am I supposed to risk
my crew and my boat and my life because of politics?
Yikes.
Jerry Brecher
SIRACH Sabre 38 MK I
Home port Gloucester, MA
Currently located in Coruna, Spain?
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
Thank you! EPIRB or PLB. Sat phones are a good idea also.
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
I beg to differ.? Here are three examples where better
communications led to better results:
Arguing against better communication is always a losing
proposition.
On 2/25/2025 10:00 AM, James Wilson via
groups.io wrote:
Your best
chance of survival in an emergency is an EPIRB, or
secondarily a PLB, or thirdly a portable VHF radio in a
liferaft.? Internet access and satellite phones are a joke.
**
James H. Wilson, Jr.
Attorney & Counsellor at Law
By appt. only:
4860 Cox Road, Suite 200
Glen Allen, VA 23060
804-740-6464
jameswilson29@...
**
In that case you better give up your cell phones and stop
watching streaming services, because SpaceX is putting up a
lot of commercial satellites. Not to mention start avoiding
many marinas and boat yards, because there are plenty of
arrogant jackasses there. And bars. And restaurants. Not
defending Musk (albeit he is the ONLY person that keeps the
US space business going), just trying to point out futility
of such gestures. And if you are in trouble without the
Starlink, now you are putting lives of potential rescuers at
risk. Maybe should rethink your approach a bit.?
--
Jim Starkey,
AmorphousDB, LLC
|
Re: Alternatives to Starlink
I detect a powerful odor of politics infecting a sailing group. It’s happened before and rarely ends well.?
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On Feb 25, 2025, at 10:42 AM, James Wilson via groups.io <jameswilson29@...> wrote:
? The difference is one of attitude.? It seems a lot of new sailors cannot tell the difference between an inconvenience and a true emergency.? Your boat is sinking or on fire = emergency.? You lose electrical power, the engine won't start, there are big waves and strong winds, and you have some water ingress = inconvenience. Old school sailors believe in self-reliance; new sailors cry for help at the drop of a hat.? Old school sailor rescued themselves in the event of a dismasting?or took to a liferaft if the boat was really sinking; new school sailors are a bunch of babies who call for help when the freezer and a/c don't work, then think the USCG will take them back out to their boats to retrieve it.? New school sailors need internet access and satellite phones. **
James H. Wilson, Jr.
Attorney & Counsellor at Law By appt. only: 4860 Cox Road, Suite 200 Glen Allen, VA 23060 804-740-6464 jameswilson29@...
** On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 10:17?AM PIOTR SERWIK via <cuivier1= [email protected]> wrote: EPIBR and PLB simply send an SOS/Mayday, and VHF is very limited distance-wise. So not compatible at all. Regardless, I'm not about to extoll virtues of Starlink, but I was in situations without ability to communicate in a State-wide emergencies, and would have paid any price to be able to communicate.?
|
Re: Alternatives to Starlink
The difference is one of attitude.? It seems a lot of new sailors cannot tell the difference between an inconvenience and a true emergency.? Your boat is sinking or on fire = emergency.? You lose electrical power, the engine won't start, there are big waves and strong winds, and you have some water ingress = inconvenience. Old school sailors believe in self-reliance; new sailors cry for help at the drop of a hat.? Old school sailor rescued themselves in the event of a dismasting?or took to a liferaft if the boat was really sinking; new school sailors are a bunch of babies who call for help when the freezer and a/c don't work, then think the USCG will take them back out to their boats to retrieve it.? New school sailors need internet access and satellite phones. **
James H. Wilson, Jr.
Attorney & Counsellor at Law By appt. only: 4860 Cox Road, Suite 200 Glen Allen, VA 23060 804-740-6464 jameswilson29@...
**
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 10:17?AM PIOTR SERWIK via <cuivier1= [email protected]> wrote: EPIBR and PLB simply send an SOS/Mayday, and VHF is very limited distance-wise. So not compatible at all. Regardless, I'm not about to extoll virtues of Starlink, but I was in situations without ability to communicate in a State-wide emergencies, and would have paid any price to be able to communicate.?
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Re: Alternatives to Starlink
EPIRBs and PLB send out a distress signal to a satellite network which relays the information, location, time, and MMSI to the Global Rescue network which then relays the information to appropritate geographic rescue center. They continue to broadcast for several days and they float. It is one way communication, except a few new units can receive an acknowledgment signal to indicate the distress signal was received.?
Dave Second Star S362 #113 Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario
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On Feb 25, 2025, at 10:17?AM, PIOTR SERWIK via groups.io <cuivier1@...> wrote:
EPIBR and PLB simply send an SOS/Mayday, and VHF is very limited distance-wise. So not compatible at all. Regardless, I'm not about to extoll virtues of Starlink, but I was in situations without ability to communicate in a State-wide emergencies, and would have paid any price to be able to communicate.?
|
Re: Alternatives to Starlink
EPIBR and PLB simply send an SOS/Mayday, and VHF is very limited distance-wise. So not compatible at all. Regardless, I'm not about to extoll virtues of Starlink, but I was in situations without ability to communicate in a State-wide emergencies, and would have paid any price to be able to communicate.?
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Velina Barnes
Jerry Brecher
Kimberly Paternoster
Jim Starkey
Tim Rivard
James Wilson