Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
I'm not trying to get miles, but I am expecting comparable range to a 300-500mw FRS radio.? When you can see your house and hear your node full quieting, I'd expect to be able to hit it just fine.? That's where I'm at with it.
I appreciate all your feedback.? He stuck a mag mount on it yesterday but I'm not sure that he had a chance to try it out.? I still want to verify the solder job I did, too.
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Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
Yeah, you can pretty much forget using anything in the 440/450
range here in the NYC metro area. Even 430 is pretty crowded with
digital hotspots and even some DMR repeaters with odd splits. One
of them even has a 13 mHz split!
We have coordinated repeaters starting at 440.0 going all the way
to 449.975 in a 50 mile radius, plus and minus are covered, and
some odd splits, too. Also, some things that are not listed
anywhere but still exist. Never mind that lots of them are either
off the air or unused. The default frequency for the SHARI U
(446.1) is a local repeater input for a machine in Brooklyn. I
have actually heard a couple of, I'm pretty sure they were? SHARI
users find that out the hard way.
I'm running my UHF SHARI at 433.5 mHz, because it's about the
only place I don't have noise from something else, or that isn't
parked in the satellite, EME or weak station bandplan. Even then,
I've had occasional noise from someone's digital hotspot. VHF
actually works a little better here for nodes, except there is
more local noise on the high end of the band in my neighborhood,
so I have to stick around 144.3 or 144.9 mHz where there aren't
repeater inputs.
I do use a long rubber duck on my SHARI though. In this house,
anyway, it makes a huge difference.
On 7/28/2022 9:01 AM, Larry Macionski
via groups.io wrote:
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Try another antenna at the Shari. The supplied antenna has a small
capture area. As usual, never enough information is given in the
complaint regarding the enviroment the SHARI is in.? My Shari sits
on a 4 drawer file cabinet in my ham shack. I live in a log cabin
that's on a cement slab. So literally my SHARI is out in the open
and HAAT is 5 feet.? I live on a 25 acre cattle ranch. I can go
anywhere on the ranch and beyond and my SHARI works fine. At the
hamfests I see guys selling 7 inch and 14 inch long dual band SMA
duckies. I've never needed one, I also have a "test" antenna, an
old mobile dual band antenna with 4 radials at 15-18 feet on top
of my roof. It is fed with 25 feet RG-58 and has BNC's. I use that
to hit a few repeaters I can't get into with just a HT in the
house. I've never tried it with my SHARI but would expect my SHARI
range to increase dramatically.
Years ago? MOTOROLA had a "range formula".. for land mobile base
installations... It was HAAT ( Height Above Average Terrain) in
feet? times the square root of 2, gives coverage distance in
miles. Now MOTOROLA never used rubber ducks on land mobile base
stations.. believe it was unity gain antennas.
5 feet HAAT = 5 times the square root of 2 = 5 x 1.414 = 7 miles
18 feet HAAT = 18 times the square root of 2 = 18 x 1.414 = 25
miles
Quite a difference in range raising that antenna 12 feet.higher
makes. That's proven with my HT's when I use it for distant
repeaters.
BTW- regarding going below 430 mhz.. I disagree. Most Amateur? FM
HT's? are designed to go to 440-450... 446.00 is the National
simplex and I've found hot spots there, listening on my Big
antenna at 55 feet. Also 446.50? Personally I keep my hot spots-
SHARI ar 440.00 and 440.440.. neither are ban planned as repeater
inputs or outputs. The Wisconsin kilocycle cops aren't going to
arrest me operating there..
The lowest frequency repeater in the area is mine at 442.00-447.00
so 440.00 to 442.00 is a wasteland in my area.. A repeater at 441
ranfe woul dhave an output at 446 and thats condidered simplex
area..
Final thought -is there some low level RFI at the house that's
raising his noise floor at the frequency your operating on. See if
you club has a member with a TinySA.($50). and see what the noise
floor is out in the middle of no where, versus the SHARI location.
Also what is the SHARI squelch set at? You might play with that
(software program in the RPI.
Larry W8LM
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Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
I have a Shari Pi3U configured to 445.550Mhz. I replaced the stock unity gain antenna with an MFJ 1717S mounted in the MFJ mag mount that sits on the window sill of the 2nd story of the duplex I live in. I have a range of about 5.5km (3.3mi) in three directions that the antenna has line of site. Power output is the max 400mW. You can see photos and a description on my QRZ profile.
73 75 de VE3JMR
Mark
Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
? |??Echolink Node# 736666
|
Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
What do you expect from a low power, low height, 440 transmitter?
I'm happy mine makes it from one side of my condo building to the
other. Mostly works to the stairwell on the other side from me.
My EchoLink -L has a full 2 watts and works to the McDonalds a half
mile away.
And that's on a beam that was pointed that way!
On 2022-07-28 15:47, KB9WOO wrote:
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Show quoted text
We are going to play around with another antenna and see what that
does.
Larry - are you using the stock antenna on your Shari or something
else?? We changed the frequency above 430 and increased the range
but not by much and he still had to bump up power.? I am also
going to check my soldering work.
I also misspoke about the HT power levels earlier.? .5w and 2.5w,
not 1w and 5w.? Though we did test at 5w today - at a distance
500mw or less bubble pack radios would work perfectly.
_._,_._,_
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Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
We are going to play around with another antenna and see what that does.
Larry - are you using the stock antenna on your Shari or something else?? We changed the frequency above 430 and increased the range but not by much and he still had to bump up power.? I am also going to check my soldering work.
I also misspoke about the HT power levels earlier.? .5w and 2.5w, not 1w and 5w.? Though we did test at 5w today - at a distance 500mw or less bubble pack radios would work perfectly.
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Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
Have you tried a better antenna attached to the Shari?
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Show quoted text
On Jul 27, 2022, at 19:58, KB9WOO via groups.io <kb9woo@...> wrote:
?So, I built my brother a shari and it's linked to mine pretty much 24/7.? We usually chat while he walks the dog, etc.? Our experience with the range he has is kind of confusing and I'm looking for ideas from you all of what we should be looking
at. Here's our experience:
Once he gets a certain distance from his house, in any direction, his Shari starts dropping out. The weird thing is his signal is very strong into the Shari and he has no issue receiving my signal from his Shari. Our last test was in a new direction, and when
referencing a map, it's only about 500' from his house.? It seems to be about 500' in any direction this starts happening.?
Some things we have tried:
He will switch HT from 1w out to 5w out - no change
Tried different PL tones
Tried no PL tone at all
Moved shari location to avoid possible interference
Moved shari to 2nd floor
What we have not tried is changing shari frequency.
We're in Wisconsin and the Wisconsin band plan recommends going below 430mhz (don't have it in front of me) for links/hotspots. His Shari is around 425mhz. We have put the Shari antenna on a VNA and noted that it is not optimal for 425mhz, but again, the issue
is with the Shari rx, not tx. He can hear the Shari perfectly from further than he can tx into it with 5w.
We've talked about testing a frequency above 430mhz, but does anyone have any other ideas to offer?? I've read a lot of posts about range, and I'm not expecting miles here, just more than 500'.
|
Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
Try another antenna at the Shari. The supplied antenna has a small capture area. As usual, never enough information is given in the complaint regarding the enviroment the SHARI is in.? My Shari sits on a 4 drawer file cabinet in my ham shack. I live in a log cabin that's on a cement slab. So literally my SHARI is out in the open and HAAT is 5 feet.? I live on a 25 acre cattle ranch. I can go anywhere on the ranch and beyond and my SHARI works fine. At the hamfests I see guys selling 7 inch and 14 inch long dual band SMA duckies. I've never needed one, I also have a "test" antenna, an old mobile dual band antenna with 4 radials at 15-18 feet on top of my roof. It is fed with 25 feet RG-58 and has BNC's. I use that to hit a few repeaters I can't get into with just a HT in the house. I've never tried it with my SHARI but would expect my SHARI range to increase dramatically.
Years ago? MOTOROLA had a "range formula".. for land mobile base installations... It was HAAT ( Height Above Average Terrain) in feet? times the square root of 2, gives coverage distance in miles. Now MOTOROLA never used rubber ducks on land mobile base stations.. believe it was unity gain antennas.
5 feet HAAT = 5 times the square root of 2 = 5 x 1.414 = 7 miles
18 feet HAAT = 18 times the square root of 2 = 18 x 1.414 = 25 miles
Quite a difference in range raising that antenna 12 feet.higher makes. That's proven with my HT's when I use it for distant repeaters.
BTW- regarding going below 430 mhz.. I disagree. Most Amateur? FM HT's? are designed to go to 440-450... 446.00 is the National simplex and I've found hot spots there, listening on my Big antenna at 55 feet. Also 446.50? Personally I keep my hot spots- SHARI ar 440.00 and 440.440.. neither are ban planned as repeater inputs or outputs. The Wisconsin kilocycle cops aren't going to arrest me operating there..
The lowest frequency repeater in the area is mine at 442.00-447.00 so 440.00 to 442.00 is a wasteland in my area.. A repeater at 441 ranfe woul dhave an output at 446 and thats condidered simplex area..
Final thought -is there some low level RFI at the house that's raising his noise floor at the frequency your operating on. See if you club has a member with a TinySA.($50). and see what the noise floor is out in the middle of no where, versus the SHARI location. Also what is the SHARI squelch set at? You might play with that (software program in the RPI.
Larry W8LM
|
Re: Time/ID cron command will not execute
Mark,
I think you might be slightly overcomplicating your CRON entry. Please try simply:
*/30 * * * * /path/to/thing/to/do?
Which means "every 30 minutes, no matter what the hour, day of the month, month, or day of the week, just do it please"
Pres W2PW
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Re: Time/ID cron command will not execute
Mark,
I think you might be slightly overcomplicating your CRON entry. Please try simply:
*/30 * * * * /path/to/thing/to/do?
Which means "every 30 minutes, no matter what the hour, day of the month, month, or day of the week, just do it please"
Pres W2PW
|
Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
I guess I was thinking that antenna resonance would be less an issue on rx, like using a random length of wire to rx. But now that you got me thinking about it, Rx is usually better with a ground plane (e.g.efficient antenna), so what you're saying makes sense.?
The VNA showed the stock Shari antenna was resonant In the 430+ portion of the 70cm band.
I do have an rtl-sdr. He is using a Yaesu 65r so I'd expect the signal to be decent enough.?
Appreciate your feedback. I think we should change the frequency and do some more tests.?
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Re: Shari receive issue Pi4U
A couple of thoughts, in no particular order of relevance:
- You may be running into multipathing beyond what the Shari can handle. I haven't looked too much into the SA818 filtering algorithms, but I've run into this in the past on ISM devices (in and around 433MHz).
- Antenna resonance is more an issue on RX vs. TX. How was RX resonance when you attached the VNA? Was it a nanoVNA or pro gear?
- Is there a distance where it picks up the signal again? At these frequencies, you shouldn't be experiencing destructive interference that broad, but I've seen weirder stuff from RF.?
None of these are Shari-specific, and may well have nothing to do with the issue at hand. Just the first thoughts in my brain.?
Do you have access to an rtl-sdr or similar? That would be an easy, low cost way for your brother to investigate the issue.?
You can use the antenna from the Shari and software like gqrx or sdr# to look at what the incoming signal looks like. If it isn't nice and sharp like?, the problem
exists with his signal. If the signal does look similar, the problem likely exists within the SA818.?
Hope that helps!
Kevin
AD7KM
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 27, 2022, at 17:58, KB9WOO via groups.io <kb9woo@...> wrote:
?
[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]
So, I built my brother a shari and it's linked to mine pretty much 24/7.? We usually chat while he walks the dog, etc.? Our experience with the range he has is kind of confusing and I'm looking for ideas from you all of what we should be looking at. Here's
our experience:
Once he gets a certain distance from his house, in any direction, his Shari starts dropping out. The weird thing is his signal is very strong into the Shari and he has no issue receiving my signal from his Shari. Our last test was in a new direction, and when
referencing a map, it's only about 500' from his house.? It seems to be about 500' in any direction this starts happening.?
Some things we have tried:
He will switch HT from 1w out to 5w out - no change
Tried different PL tones
Tried no PL tone at all
Moved shari location to avoid possible interference
Moved shari to 2nd floor
What we have not tried is changing shari frequency.
We're in Wisconsin and the Wisconsin band plan recommends going below 430mhz (don't have it in front of me) for links/hotspots. His Shari is around 425mhz. We have put the Shari antenna on a VNA and noted that it is not optimal for 425mhz, but again, the issue
is with the Shari rx, not tx. He can hear the Shari perfectly from further than he can tx into it with 5w.
We've talked about testing a frequency above 430mhz, but does anyone have any other ideas to offer?? I've read a lot of posts about range, and I'm not expecting miles here, just more than 500'.
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Re: Time/ID cron command will not execute
KEVIN!! You are the $64,000 WINNER!!!! Sorry, I don't have 64grand to give you :-( It was a syntax issue and here's the crontab that speaks the time, weather and my callsign every 30 minutes. (BTW, every 30min as in Canada the rule is that ops and automated systems must ID no less than once every 30min) 00,30 0-23 * * * (source /usr/local/etc/allstar.env ; /usr/bin/nice -19 /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/sbin/say24time.pl L3K5V5 $NODE1 ; /usr/local/sbin/speaktext.sh "VE3JMR" $NODE1 > /dev/null)
73 75 de VE3JMR
Mark
Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
? |??Echolink Node# 736666
|
So, I built my brother a shari and it's linked to mine pretty much 24/7.? We usually chat while he walks the dog, etc.? Our experience with the range he has is kind of confusing and I'm looking for ideas from you all of what we should be looking at. Here's our experience: Once he gets a certain distance from his house, in any direction, his Shari starts dropping out. The weird thing is his signal is very strong into the Shari and he has no issue receiving my signal from his Shari. Our last test was in a new direction, and when referencing a map, it's only about 500' from his house.? It seems to be about 500' in any direction this starts happening.? Some things we have tried: He will switch HT from 1w out to 5w out - no change
Tried different PL tones
Tried no PL tone at all
Moved shari location to avoid possible interference
Moved shari to 2nd floor
What we have not tried is changing shari frequency.
We're in Wisconsin and the Wisconsin band plan recommends going below 430mhz (don't have it in front of me) for links/hotspots. His Shari is around 425mhz. We have put the Shari antenna on a VNA and noted that it is not optimal for 425mhz, but again, the issue is with the Shari rx, not tx. He can hear the Shari perfectly from further than he can tx into it with 5w.
We've talked about testing a frequency above 430mhz, but does anyone have any other ideas to offer?? I've read a lot of posts about range, and I'm not expecting miles here, just more than 500'.
|
Re: Allstar Node died 24 hours after SHARI Pi3V install
I see two image files and one folder on my Shari SD card (which is working perfectly)—how do you make a complete bootable copy of that?
?
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of
Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 7:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SHARI] Allstar Node died 24 hours after SHARI Pi3V install
?
I use Win32DiskImager which works to read and write. It saves a complete image. To restore an image, just put the SD card in and restore it. When is says "Okay" it is ready for the SD card to go into the Pi. Easy as Pi.
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark VE3JMR"
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 01:36:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SHARI] Allstar Node died 24 hours after SHARI Pi3V install
> I do regular backups of the Hamvoip config files using file-backup.sh then transfer a copy to one of my PC's for backup off the sd card. I see comments that it's always worthwhile to have another configured sd card ready to go to boot the hotspot should the
card in it fail. I agree with this.
>
> What I cannot find an answer to is: How can I make an exact duplicate of the sd card without having to burn a new image to another card and setup my hotspot again from scratch? I suppose I could do a minimal setup then copy the backup to the new card and
restore. IT would be nice to do an exact duplicate in one operation.
>
> 73 75 de VE3JMR
> Mark
> Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
>
>
> Allstar Node# 53132 ( ) | Echolink Node# 736666
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: Allstar Node died 24 hours after SHARI Pi3V install
I use Win32DiskImager which works to read and write. It saves a
complete image. To restore an image, just put the SD card in and
restore it. When is says "Okay" it is ready for the SD card to go
into the Pi. Easy as Pi.
Mick - W7CAT
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark VE3JMR"
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 01:36:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SHARI] Allstar Node died 24 hours after SHARI Pi3V
install
> I do regular backups of the Hamvoip config files using
file-backup.sh then transfer a copy to one of my PC's for backup
off the sd card. I see comments that it's always worthwhile to
have another configured sd card ready to go to boot the hotspot
should the card in it fail. I agree with this.
>
> What I cannot find an answer to is: How can I make an exact
duplicate of the sd card without having to burn a new image to
another card and setup my hotspot again from scratch? I suppose I
could do a minimal setup then copy the backup to the new card and
restore. IT would be nice to do an exact duplicate in one
operation.
>
> 73 75 de VE3JMR
> Mark
> Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
>
>
> Allstar Node# 53132 (
) | Echolink Node# 736666
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: Allstar Node died 24 hours after SHARI Pi3V install
I make an image of existing configuration with win32 disk imager.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 19, 2022, at 3:51 PM, Scott, KB3JQQ via groups.io <kb3jqq@...> wrote:
?
I've used PowerISO to copy/backup/restore both Pi-Star and HamVOIP
working images.
Both partitions are captured and restored, and I've had it use
different size cards then
the image came from. (16>8 now using the 8 instead)
On 2022-07-19 15:36, Mark VE3JMR wrote:
I do regular backups of the Hamvoip config files using
file-backup.sh then transfer a copy to one of my PC's for backup
off the sd card. I see comments that it's always worthwhile to
have another configured sd card ready to go to boot the hotspot
should the card in it fail. I agree with this.
What I cannot find an answer to is: How can I make an exact
duplicate of the sd card without having to burn a new image to
another card and setup my hotspot again from scratch? I suppose I
could do a minimal setup then copy the backup to the new card and
restore. IT would be nice to do an exact duplicate in one
operation.
73 75 de VE3JMR
Mark
Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
? |??Echolink Node# 736666
|
Re: Time/ID cron command will not execute
that allows you to say 1 line. my way allows multiple lines to be
read. you can modify what I wrote to accommodate your needs
you can set my crontab I sent you up as a script or as a macro
either way it would work the same.
On 7/18/2022 6:55 PM, Mark VE3JMR
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Brad
I've thought of the two step approach (ie script + crontab,
however, as stated, I've had this working before without doing
that. Also, there is no need to go to the extra effort of
converting a file to wav or ul when there is already a Hamvoip
solution to speak text - speaktext.sh.
73 75 de VE3JMR
Mark
Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
? |??Echolink Node# 736666
|
Re: Allstar Node died 24 hours after SHARI Pi3V install
I've used PowerISO to copy/backup/restore both Pi-Star and HamVOIP
working images.
Both partitions are captured and restored, and I've had it use
different size cards then
the image came from. (16>8 now using the 8 instead)
On 2022-07-19 15:36, Mark VE3JMR wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I do regular backups of the Hamvoip config files using
file-backup.sh then transfer a copy to one of my PC's for backup
off the sd card. I see comments that it's always worthwhile to
have another configured sd card ready to go to boot the hotspot
should the card in it fail. I agree with this.
What I cannot find an answer to is: How can I make an exact
duplicate of the sd card without having to burn a new image to
another card and setup my hotspot again from scratch? I suppose I
could do a minimal setup then copy the backup to the new card and
restore. IT would be nice to do an exact duplicate in one
operation.
73 75 de VE3JMR
Mark
Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
? |??Echolink Node# 736666
|
Re: Time/ID cron command will not execute
Hi Brad I've thought of the two step approach (ie script + crontab, however, as stated, I've had this working before without doing that. Also, there is no need to go to the extra effort of converting a file to wav or ul when there is already a Hamvoip solution to speak text - speaktext.sh.
73 75 de VE3JMR
Mark
Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
? |??Echolink Node# 736666
|
SHARI - RF Connector J3 Failure - Loose insert
Greetings fellow Shari users! The RF connector (part J3) consists of the main housing and an insert. When installing you cannot see the insert. My observation is that if the antenna is disconnected a few times, the insert becomes very loose and eventually will release from the housing. I began to use a 3rd party (MFJ 1717S) rubber duck antenna on a mag mount that I connected to the Shari. It works great, gives about 2dB gain and has increased the range of the hotspot. I can hear it about 5km (3mi) from my home QTH and get into it from the same distance with my 5W mobile rig. I have done testing over the past year and have switched the stock and my other antenna in and out a few times. After about 5 swaps, the insert becomes quite loose. How I know this is that the partial disconnection becomes an apparent grounding issue and the s/n ratio of the hotspot skyrockets. There is a very loud hum that is much louder than the incoming signal. I have had QSO's with other stations when this occurs and they say my signal and audio are still very good. They cannot hear the hum. This has occurred twice and each time I was able to reseat the insert. CAUTION! If this happens to you, do NOT use only pliers to reseat the insert or the threads will be damaged. I have a pair of tweezers meant for picking up small parts that has flat surfaces on the end that completely cover the insert. I place the insert into the connector, cover it with the tweezers then apply pressure with the pliers to reseat the insert. Issue resolved...until the next time the insert becomes loose ;-) I hope this helps others. --
73 75 de VE3JMR
Mark
Port Colborne, Ontario,?CANADA
? |??Echolink Node# 736666
|
Mark VE3JMR
Scott, KB3JQQ
Larry Macionski
Brad N8PC