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I just bought a set of Overland F-7's where the drive shaft on one truck slips; I own one of the River Raisin repowering kits and am wondering whether it is worth the trouble of replacing the original drive.
Thoughts?? Advice?
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On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 05:52 PM, JGG KahnSr wrote:
am wondering whether it is worth the trouble of replacing the original drive.
Thoughts?? Advice?
Jace.......One way to look at this situation is to realize that if the original drive was good, there would be no need for an upgraded drive.? Why would River Raisin make an upgraded drive if the original drive was perfectly satisfactory?? Perhaps you could do a test run with each drive and hear/see the difference for yourself.? Just a thought.? Ed L. ? -- Ed Loizeaux Los Altos, CA
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Slipping motor coupling are an easy fix. ? Shaft is at left. .020 wire through the coupling. ? Thank You,
Bill Lane
Modeling the Mighty Pennsy, PRSL & Reading in 1957 in S Scale since 1987
See my finished models at:
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale! ? See my layout progress at:
Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join!??
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL
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Jace:? Andy Mallett wrote an article in one of the magazines (I? do not remember er but possibly I believe S? Scale Resource? on line ? ) about how to rebuild the original F unit drives. After rebuilding mine with slight variations from his instructions and replacing all the drive shafts / U joints with Hobby town components my original drive I would say runs just as well or better than the re-drives kits for them do.? I rep[aced the center bolster washer with a round transistor insulating plastic piece that works just fine which allows the geartower to rub up against it keeping the gear tower straight even when cornering which removes the binding that made the original units become unusable. The re-drives are good for replacing the Omnicon GP drives with other mods. I have done one of these now also. Maybe someone else can point to the exact magazine / article issue. I believe Bill Winans also published another fix for the gearbox drives shaft lengths being too long also causing binding issues. I did both fixes with good results.
Bill Morris?
NEPrototypes
PO Box 4-4-2?
Rutland MA 01543-0442 USA
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Im pretty certain the article was in the NASG magazine. You can probably down load from the members area
Colin Stewart Inverness? Scotland?
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On 4 Jul 2024, at 15:23, William Morris via groups.io <classicaudioservice@...> wrote:
?Jace:? Andy Mallett wrote an article in one of the magazines (I? do not remember er but possibly I believe S? Scale Resource? on line ? ) about how to rebuild the original F unit drives. After rebuilding mine with slight variations from his instructions and replacing all the drive shafts / U joints with Hobby town components my original drive I would say runs just as well or better than the re-drives kits for them do.? I rep[aced the center bolster washer with a round transistor insulating plastic piece that works just fine which allows the geartower to rub up against it keeping the gear tower straight even when cornering which removes the binding that made the original units become unusable. The re-drives are good for replacing the Omnicon GP drives with other mods. I have done one of these now also. Maybe someone else can point to the exact magazine / article issue. I believe Bill Winans also published another fix for the gearbox drives shaft lengths being too long also causing binding issues. I did both fixes with good results.
Bill Morris?
NEPrototypes
PO Box 4-4-2?
Rutland MA 01543-0442 USA
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Jace:? NASG Dispatch Magazine? 2016 #1 authored by Andy Mallette. Listed as an F7 by Omnicon repair which is NOT correct in a search for this article on the NASG website.? As far as I know Omnicon NEVER made an F7 just Overland right at the same time RRM was entering the fold. I think Dan Navarre finished that project from Tom Marsh for us all in S Scale. Dan I know through RRM released the? Re-drive kits to cure the issues but they also shared the driveshaft length issue in the gear boxes as I recall. It has been a while sorry for my cobwebs and Thanks to Colin for his reminder that that article appeared in the NASG Dispatch or Despatch magazine. Spelling D X spatch depended on who the editor was at the time. I'll see if I can find that issue - I had it at one time when I rebuilt mine. Andy's advice was about spot on. I just found it easier to use a Teflon plastic transistor insulator the correct diameter instead of having to cut out the circular plastic washers in plastic as Andy describes. JACE: UPDATE: I just looked and found the article by Andy Mallette in the NASG Dispatch Mag 2016 #1. If you need me to I can send you a copy. Maybe Bill Winans can recall the article he wrote about the gearboxes for you ! BeSt RegardS Bill Morris NEPrototypes - ALL OF MY S SCALE DECAL SETS are again in stock; email me a PM for list with prices. I am not attending 2024 NASG? in Harrisburg this year due to health issues. PO Box 4-4-2 Rutland. MA 01543-0442 USA email: billmorris52@...? ?
TEL: 508-886-4848 before 7PM Eastern time ONLY PLEASE
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Bill
Omnicon did indeed put together a drive
for F units.? Actually it had NWSL mechanicals and the revamped
Enhorning/Wabash Shell.? Dick Karnes did a review of it in the
Dispatch.? I owned one for a couple of years but the AM drive won
out overall.? Omnicon did offer several painted versions,but there
weren't any additional details added sort of making the paint job
semi useless.
I also was an owner of a Overland F
unit which I bought at the New Brunswick Convention from a very
short lived company.? It was noisey so Bill Winans cure might have
cured the problem without buying an entirely new chassis.? I
finally went for the RR drive and things are smooh.
Bob Werre
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Jace:? NASG Dispatch Magazine? 2016 #1 authored by Andy Mallette.
Listed as an F7 by Omnicon which is NOT correct in a search for
this article on the NASG website.? As far as I know Omnicon NEVER
made an F7 just Overland right at the same time RRM was entering
the fold. I think Dan Navarre finished that project from Tom Marsh
for us all in S Scale. Dan I know through RRM released the? ?
Re-drive kits to cure the issues but they also shared the
driveshaft length issue in the gear boxes as I recall. It has been
a while sorry for my cobwebs and Thanks to Colin for his reminder
that that article appeared in the NASG Dispatch or Despatch
magazine. Spelling D X spatch depended on who the editor was at
the time.
I'll see if I can find that issue - I had it at one time when I
rebuilt mine. Andy's advice was about spot on. I just found it
easier to use a Teflon plastic transistor insulator the correct
diameter instead of having to cut out the circular plastic washers
in plastic as Andy describes.
Bill Morris
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Whoa is there some strange history there...? Thanks for clarifying the Omnicon F units Bob.?
Most folks either don't remember or know that River Raisin was a partnership between Dan Navarre and myself from inception in 1987, until I left the partnership at the end of 2007.? By then I was a corporate nomad, living 3 states away so maintaining things was too complicated.? I still number Dan Navarre as one of my absolute best friends, in or out of model railroading.
OMI did the F3 and F7 models, we may have sold some but had nothing to do with the project.? In 1991 we made the FT sets and they had the new or (I prefer) updated drive.? We also made a short run, 50 pieces, of F3/F7 'B' units because people wanted more 'B' units!? At the same time we made 100 redrive kits so existing F3/F7 units would run quieter and match speeds with the FT's.? Everything was delivered in December 1991.? I think Dan posted an all time list of River Raisin projects, versions and dates, on the NASG website when he closed the business.? Somehow everyone loves the website but most people don't go there first for their information!?
Model on... Jim Kindraka Grand Rapids, MI
Bill
Omnicon did indeed put together a drive
for F units.? Actually it had NWSL mechanicals and the revamped
Enhorning/Wabash Shell.? Dick Karnes did a review of it in the
Dispatch.? I owned one for a couple of years but the AM drive won
out overall.? Omnicon did offer several painted versions,but there
weren't any additional details added sort of making the paint job
semi useless.
I also was an owner of a Overland F
unit which I bought at the New Brunswick Convention from a very
short lived company.? It was noisey so Bill Winans cure might have
cured the problem without buying an entirely new chassis.? I
finally went for the RR drive and things are smooh.
Bob Werre
Jace:? NASG Dispatch Magazine? 2016 #1 authored by Andy Mallette.
Listed as an F7 by Omnicon which is NOT correct in a search for
this article on the NASG website.? As far as I know Omnicon NEVER
made an F7 just Overland right at the same time RRM was entering
the fold. I think Dan Navarre finished that project from Tom Marsh
for us all in S Scale. Dan I know through RRM released the? ?
Re-drive kits to cure the issues but they also shared the
driveshaft length issue in the gear boxes as I recall. It has been
a while sorry for my cobwebs and Thanks to Colin for his reminder
that that article appeared in the NASG Dispatch or Despatch
magazine. Spelling D X spatch depended on who the editor was at
the time.
I'll see if I can find that issue - I had it at one time when I
rebuilt mine. Andy's advice was about spot on. I just found it
easier to use a Teflon plastic transistor insulator the correct
diameter instead of having to cut out the circular plastic washers
in plastic as Andy describes.
Bill Morris
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Bob: OK that is fine and well and Omnicon may have made an F unit drive for the F shells from Enhorning and Wabash Valley BUT my point was that the article for rebuilding and improving the original OMI drives in the OMI brass shell models was the article I was speaking of and also I believe what Jace was looking for. I have 3D printed F unit frames including correct fuel and battery box for F2 conversions for the Enhorning / Wabash Valley F3 shells from files that were done for Tom Lennon b y Doug Miller before he passed on. They use AM FP7 drive components ( gear towers and motors and I use new HobbyTown?U? joints and brass driveshafts? to power them along with new bulkhead ends 3D printed by another modeler and side screen very detailed inserts made by another 3D liquid bath printer that has done a lot of S Scale work for me now. I am in the process of finishing up my first F2 unit. The B&M had 16 F2's to MU with their FT sets.
Bill Morris
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I've got an instruction sheet for the Omnicon F unit drive, and that drive is very similar to the one they developed for their resin cast Baldwin Shark shells.
Jim, did the additional B units RRM did have the new drive?? Presuming they were also built by Ajin, were the shells identical to those produced for Overland?
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Whoa is there some strange history there...? Thanks for clarifying the Omnicon F units Bob.?
Most folks either don't remember or know that River Raisin was a partnership between Dan Navarre and myself from inception in 1987, until I left the partnership at the end of 2007.? By then I was a corporate nomad, living 3 states away so maintaining things
was too complicated.? I still number Dan Navarre as one of my absolute best friends, in or out of model railroading.
OMI did the F3 and F7 models, we may have sold some but had nothing to do with the project.? In 1991 we made the FT sets and they had the new or (I prefer) updated drive.? We also made a short run, 50 pieces, of F3/F7 'B' units because people wanted more
'B' units!? At the same time we made 100 redrive kits so existing F3/F7 units would run quieter and match speeds with the FT's.? Everything was delivered in December 1991.? I think Dan posted an all time list of River Raisin projects, versions and dates, on
the NASG website when he closed the business.? Somehow everyone loves the website but most people don't go there first for their information!?
Model on...
Jim Kindraka
Grand Rapids, MI
Bill
Omnicon did indeed put together a drive for F units.? Actually it had NWSL mechanicals and the revamped Enhorning/Wabash Shell.? Dick Karnes did a review of it in the Dispatch.? I owned one for a couple of years but the AM drive won out overall.? Omnicon
did offer several painted versions,but there weren't any additional details added sort of making the paint job semi useless.
I also was an owner of a Overland F unit which I bought at the New Brunswick Convention from a very short lived company.? It was noisey so Bill Winans cure might have cured the problem without buying an entirely new chassis.? I finally went for the RR
drive and things are smooh.
Bob Werre
Jace:? NASG Dispatch Magazine? 2016 #1 authored by Andy Mallette. Listed as an F7 by Omnicon which is NOT correct in a search for this article on the NASG website.? As far as I know Omnicon NEVER made an F7 just Overland right at the
same time RRM was entering the fold. I think Dan Navarre finished that project from Tom Marsh for us all in S Scale. Dan I know through RRM released the? ? Re-drive kits to cure the issues but they also shared the driveshaft length issue in the gear boxes
as I recall. It has been a while sorry for my cobwebs and Thanks to Colin for his reminder that that article appeared in the NASG Dispatch or Despatch magazine. Spelling D X spatch depended on who the editor was at the time.
I'll see if I can find that issue - I had it at one time when I rebuilt mine. Andy's advice was about spot on. I just found it easier to use a Teflon plastic transistor insulator the correct diameter instead of having to cut out the circular plastic washers
in plastic as Andy describes.
Bill Morris
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Just to further the Omnicon drive & models just a bit!? In one of the S Manfactures' Coop Ads (one of the short lived general RR magazines ??), I photographed three painted A&B sets.? Memory says it was a C&NW, Milwaukee Road (later scheme) with the third slipping out of my memory.? I can only wonder how many were sold as it was nearing the end of Omnicon--Charlie had passed so things were happening +-!
About that time the RR SD7/9 was the new kid on the block--took a long time to wrangle one, financially.? The same thing happened when the Greenbriar GP30's and the River Raisin FT's pulled into the station--at about the same time.? Lots of good stuff there--and that power-short Great Plains Terminal RR just had to have some!
Bob Werre
Phototraxx
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Whoa is there some strange history there...? Thanks for clarifying the Omnicon F units Bob.
Most folks either don't remember or know that River Raisin was a partnership between Dan Navarre and myself from inception in 1987, until I left the partnership at the end of 2007.? By then I was a corporate nomad, living 3 states away so maintaining things was too complicated.? I still number Dan Navarre as one of my absolute best friends, in or out of model railroading.
OMI did the F3 and F7 models, we may have sold some but had nothing to do with the project.? In 1991 we made the FT sets and they had the new or (I prefer) updated drive.? We also made a short run, 50 pieces, of F3/F7 'B' units because people wanted more 'B' units!? At the same time we made 100 redrive kits so existing F3/F7 units would run quieter and match speeds with the FT's.? Everything was delivered in December 1991.? I think Dan posted an all time list of River Raisin projects, versions and dates, on the NASG website when he closed the business.? Somehow everyone loves the website but most people don't go there first for their information!
Model on...
Jim Kindraka
Grand Rapids, MI
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Jim: Thank you for correcting my errant comments about the OMI and RRM models and drives. This refreshed my memory and removed some of the cob webs. I was just trying to help-Jace if he wanted to rebuild his original OMI drives as Andy Malette and I both did, I really appreciated Andy having documented how to fix the? original RRM drives as? I found it VERY helpful. As I recall I was almost done with my first rebuild when I found Andy's article and found it confirmed the exact same root causes of malfunctioning that I had just discovered for myself on my first rebuild of one of the OMI F drives. Another I believe was published by Bill Winans on how to remove binding in the trucks with the 2 piece driveshafts that engage each other between the wheelsts in each truck.
Bill Morris
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To illustrate definitively that Omnicon produced F unit drives, here is the schematic from the instruction sheets (I'd tried to scan it but the orange paper wouldn't work).? Essentially all NWSL components except the lost-wax sideframes; I didn't check it out
against the drive in my Omnicon Shark, but I'd suspect they are very close if not identical design.? The ad says he used South Wind (now BTS) castings.
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Whoa is there some strange history there...? Thanks for clarifying the Omnicon F units Bob.?
Most folks either don't remember or know that River Raisin was a partnership between Dan Navarre and myself from inception in 1987, until I left the partnership at the end of 2007.? By then I was a corporate nomad, living 3 states away so maintaining things
was too complicated.? I still number Dan Navarre as one of my absolute best friends, in or out of model railroading.
OMI did the F3 and F7 models, we may have sold some but had nothing to do with the project.? In 1991 we made the FT sets and they had the new or (I prefer) updated drive.? We also made a short run, 50 pieces, of F3/F7 'B' units because people wanted more
'B' units!? At the same time we made 100 redrive kits so existing F3/F7 units would run quieter and match speeds with the FT's.? Everything was delivered in December 1991.? I think Dan posted an all time list of River Raisin projects, versions and dates, on
the NASG website when he closed the business.? Somehow everyone loves the website but most people don't go there first for their information!?
Model on...
Jim Kindraka
Grand Rapids, MI
Bill
Omnicon did indeed put together a drive for F units.? Actually it had NWSL mechanicals and the revamped Enhorning/Wabash Shell.? Dick Karnes did a review of it in the Dispatch.? I owned one for a couple of years but the AM drive won out overall.? Omnicon
did offer several painted versions,but there weren't any additional details added sort of making the paint job semi useless.
I also was an owner of a Overland F unit which I bought at the New Brunswick Convention from a very short lived company.? It was noisey so Bill Winans cure might have cured the problem without buying an entirely new chassis.? I finally went for the RR
drive and things are smooh.
Bob Werre
Jace:? NASG Dispatch Magazine? 2016 #1 authored by Andy Mallette. Listed as an F7 by Omnicon which is NOT correct in a search for this article on the NASG website.? As far as I know Omnicon NEVER made an F7 just Overland right at the
same time RRM was entering the fold. I think Dan Navarre finished that project from Tom Marsh for us all in S Scale. Dan I know through RRM released the? ? Re-drive kits to cure the issues but they also shared the driveshaft length issue in the gear boxes
as I recall. It has been a while sorry for my cobwebs and Thanks to Colin for his reminder that that article appeared in the NASG Dispatch or Despatch magazine. Spelling D X spatch depended on who the editor was at the time.
I'll see if I can find that issue - I had it at one time when I rebuilt mine. Andy's advice was about spot on. I just found it easier to use a Teflon plastic transistor insulator the correct diameter instead of having to cut out the circular plastic washers
in plastic as Andy describes.
Bill Morris
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Jace: Your original message stated that you had Overland? F7's NOT Omnicon. I looked up the article I quoted in my earlier reply for you about repairing problems with OVERLAND (OMI) drives. When I looked up the article on the NASG website it was listed as OMNICON drive repair by Andy Malette NOT? OMI. BUT THE ARTICLE IS FOR OMI DRIVES NOT OMNICON. Someone goofed in the listing of article titles in the lookup table of Dispatch articles. on the NASG website? ? ?VOL 16 #1 is the? Dispatch repair article you need to repair ORIGINAL OMI? F7 DRIVES. IF YOU NEED a copy I have the issue contact me as a PM. Let;'s put this to bed.
Bill
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Bill Lane
colin stewart
Bob Werre
