Hi all, For those interested, FTDNA recently added several R-U106+ aDNAs to its database. Below is some data on these latest additions: 1) :
| ID |
? |
Sample Name |
Y-Haplogroup |
archeology ID |
? |
Site |
? |
Geography |
? |
Country |
? |
Time period |
? |
culture |
TMRCA Mean |
TMRCA Oldest |
TMRCA Youngest |
? |
age estimate source |
Latitude |
Longitude |
| ATP_PSN_496 |
? |
Bene't 496 |
R-FTB18868 |
1609 |
? |
Bene't Street |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Medieval Britain |
1349 |
1300 |
1400 |
? |
Radiocarbon dating |
52.204 |
0.118 |
| ATP_PSN_36 |
? |
St. Johns 36 |
R-A11475 |
2150 |
? |
St Johns Hospital |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Poor Medieval Britain |
1250 |
1000 |
1500 |
? |
Context |
52.208 |
0.119 |
| ATP_PSN_412 |
? |
HTC 412 |
R-Y130438 |
51 |
? |
Holy Trinity Church |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Historical |
? |
Historical Britain |
1844 |
1833 |
1855 |
? |
Radiocarbon dating |
52.206 |
0.12 |
| ATP_PSN_54 |
? |
St. Johns 54 |
R-S10346 |
2203 |
? |
St Johns Hospital |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Poor Medieval Britain |
1250 |
1000 |
1500 |
? |
Context |
52.208 |
0.119 |
| ATP_PSN_116 |
? |
St. Johns 116 |
R-A5011 |
3288 |
? |
St Johns Hospital |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Poor Medieval Britain |
1345 |
1290 |
1400 |
? |
Radiocarbon dating |
52.208 |
0.119 |
| ATP_PSN_190 |
? |
St. Johns 190 |
R-BY41658 |
1237 |
? |
St Johns Hospital |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Poor Medieval Britain |
1250 |
1000 |
1500 |
? |
Context |
52.208 |
0.119 |
| ATP_PSN_416 |
? |
HTC 416 |
R-FT201164 |
2 |
? |
Holy Trinity Church |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Historical |
? |
Medieval Britain |
1844 |
1833 |
1855 |
? |
Radiocarbon dating |
52.206 |
0.12 |
| ATP_PSN_127 |
? |
St. Johns 127 |
R-FGC52155 |
5039 |
? |
St Johns Hospital |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Poor Medieval Britain |
1250 |
1000 |
1500 |
? |
Context |
52.208 |
0.119 |
| ATP_PSN_923 |
? |
Cherry Hinton 923 |
R-PH1842 |
3502 |
? |
Cherry Hinton |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Rural Medieval Britain |
1055 |
940 |
1170 |
? |
Context |
52.189 |
0.174 |
| ATP_PSN_78 |
? |
St. Johns 78 |
R-BY35882 |
2260 |
? |
St Johns Hospital |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Poor Medieval Britain |
1250 |
1000 |
1500 |
? |
Context |
52.208 |
0.119 |
| ATP_PSN_505 |
? |
Austin Friary 505 |
R-S6924 |
1932 |
? |
Augustinian Friars |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Clergy Medieval Britain |
1370 |
1200 |
1540 |
? |
Context |
52.202 |
0.121 |
| ATP_PSN_128 |
? |
St. Johns 128 |
R-FT59226 |
5041 |
? |
St Johns Hospital |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Poor Medieval Britain |
1250 |
1000 |
1500 |
? |
Context |
52.208 |
0.119 |
| ATP_PSN_873 |
? |
Providence 873 |
R-JFS0009 |
10 |
? |
Providence Calvinist Baptist Chapel |
? |
Cambridgeshire |
? |
England |
? |
Historical |
? |
Poor Historical Britain |
1835 |
1800 |
1870 |
? |
Context |
52.205 |
0.137 |
2) :
| ID |
? |
Sample Name |
Y-Haplogroup |
archeology ID |
? |
Site |
? |
Geography |
? |
Country |
? |
Time period |
? |
culture |
TMRCA Mean |
TMRCA Oldest |
TMRCA Youngest |
? |
age estimate source |
Latitude |
Longitude |
| C11119 |
? |
Longwall 11119 |
R-FT399065 |
? |
? |
Longwall Quad |
? |
Oxford |
? |
United Kingdom |
? |
Late Medieval |
? |
Medieval Britain |
1170 |
1050 |
1290 |
? |
Context |
51.757 |
-1.26 |
3) :
| ID |
? |
Sample Name |
Y-Haplogroup |
archeology ID |
? |
Site |
? |
Geography |
? |
Country |
? |
Time period |
? |
culture |
TMRCA Mean |
TMRCA Oldest |
TMRCA Youngest |
? |
age estimate source |
Latitude |
Longitude |
| I15527 |
? |
Viminacium I15527 |
R-U106 |
Grave G-2771 |
? |
Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis |
? |
Moesia |
? |
Serbia |
? |
Roman Age |
? |
Roman Age Balkans |
140 |
70 |
208 |
? |
Radiocarbon dating |
44.73698 |
21.225605 |
All the R-U106+ aDNAs listed by FTDNA, in map form (plus some additions): Cheers, Ewenn
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And lots of 'itinerant' soldiers.
For the British this must mean a generous 'contribution' has been made to foreign local populations over the past 300+ years.?
And the WW2 Americans left an estimated 22000 NPEs (or, more accurately, NPPEs - not the parent their parents expected) in Britain, one of whom is my Aunt.
So those cousins are 25% American and 75% Stoke. They don't know about my Welsh thing.
Al?
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Oh my God, Welsh! I'm so sorry.
Just a comment in regard to NPE mention in an earlier post.?
Several years ago a local family historian in my home area (The Free State of North Staffordshire) advised me to check the excommunication and penance lists in local Parish Registers when investigating NPEs - particularly dates on or around the relevant child's birth.?
I don't know how common these are generally, but I've come across them in two of the Staffs Registers I was intertested in, (Norton-le-Moors and Alstonefield registers), so it seems to have been a thing in that area, at least at certain times.?
His theory was that who the father was, was often known by everyone the village and if the child survived to term, that was it - you're guilty in the eyes of God of fornication or adultery, so the wrath of the local Vicar was felt.?
This seems to have been applied to the father rather than the mother - perhaps due to him being possibly an adulterer, or maybe the mother was less likely to be excommunicated for the sake of the child (I'm speculating and have no idea really).
?
We've plenty of NPEs in the family, including my mum (who isn't remotely precious about any of this stuff).
I suspect her dad was Welsh but this information is classified Restricted - Sensitive.
Cheers,?
Al
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Re: Help with interpreting surprising yDNA results (Irish)
Thanks John,? If only 1% of my 405 25 marker YSTR matches who have taken the Family Finder test are S5556+ I would be pleased. I have only nine branch matches at present!!
°ä¾±²¹°ù¨¢²Ô
On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 at 10:33:59 AM UTC, John T via groups.io <z343snp@...> wrote:
Hello °ä¾±²¹°ù¨¢²Ô
FTDNA did about 36,000 FF predictions (their terminology) in the couple of days around Dec 7th, and another about 3,000 around Jan 31st.
Their initial timetable suggested it would take some months, but this has obviously been impacted by more important issues of late.
Kind regards John
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NPE poker: Al, I see you one NPE parent and raise you the other¡. Both my parents were NPE babies. Before testing Dad¡¯s side had no clue. Mom¡¯s side knew but kept the secret until we told them what testing revealed¡. ? We figured this out over 5 years while paying for about a dozen autosomal tests for known relatives and persuadable strangers. And this revealed a number of NPE events in unrelated lines. There are a lot of them out there¡ ? Many are your basic ¡°boy meets girl & biology happens¡± events. And there are quite a few of the ¡°itinerant worker leaves NPE evidence in every town & village¡± variety. Some of the stories would make good movies¡ ? -Phil ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Al
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R1b-U106] Not Parent Expected? Just a comment in regard to NPE mention in an earlier post.? Several years ago a local family historian in my home area (The Free State of North Staffordshire) advised me to check the excommunication and penance lists in local Parish Registers when investigating NPEs - particularly dates on or around the relevant child's birth.? I don't know how common these are generally, but I've come across them in two of the Staffs Registers I was intertested in, (Norton-le-Moors and Alstonefield registers), so it seems to have been a thing in that area, at least at certain times.? His theory was that who the father was, was often known by everyone the village and if the child survived to term, that was it - you're guilty in the eyes of God of fornication or adultery, so the wrath of the local Vicar was felt.? This seems to have been applied to the father rather than the mother - perhaps due to him being possibly an adulterer, or maybe the mother was less likely to be excommunicated for the sake of the child (I'm speculating and have no idea really). We've plenty of NPEs in the family, including my mum (who isn't remotely precious about any of this stuff).
I suspect her dad was Welsh but this information is classified Restricted - Sensitive.
Cheers,?
Al
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Al: ? That is right in line with both what I have seen when living in the UK, and with subsequent research. ? Some NPEs were merely adoptions, where a child was taken in by a family and assumed the family name. ? This is hard to tease out in older records, but often possible. ? In smaller communities, the truth was usually known, if not always recorded. ? My aunt, daughter of a Rector, once (pointedly)? told an? arrogant aristocrat "but you forget the bar sinister my? lord". ? DNA testing and triangulation are now valuable and helpful tools. ? Cheers ? Richard ? ? ?
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Just a comment in regard to NPE mention in an earlier post.?
Several years ago a local family historian in my home area (The Free State of North Staffordshire) advised me to check the excommunication and penance lists in local Parish Registers when investigating NPEs - particularly dates on or around the relevant child's birth.?
I don't know how common these are generally, but I've come across them in two of the Staffs Registers I was intertested in, (Norton-le-Moors and Alstonefield registers), so it seems to have been a thing in that area, at least at certain times.?
His theory was that who the father was, was often known by everyone the village and if the child survived to term, that was it - you're guilty in the eyes of God of fornication or adultery, so the wrath of the local Vicar was felt.?
This seems to have been applied to the father rather than the mother - perhaps due to him being possibly an adulterer, or maybe the mother was less likely to be excommunicated for the sake of the child (I'm speculating and have no idea really).
?
We've plenty of NPEs in the family, including my mum (who isn't remotely precious about any of this stuff).
I suspect her dad was Welsh but this information is classified Restricted - Sensitive.
Cheers,?
Al
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Re: Consequences of "Opt-out" Group Project Profile
Tom & other R1b-U106
Our small project of 256 members has 98 kits that are "plus "Family Finder/"absent" Y test results.? If even half that number receives a Y-DNA result,? I might find myself quite busy depending on what is the generalized plan for the integration of these kits/individuals
into group project features.? For example, will project managers have to somehow integrate these kits into subgroups for the output of Y-DNA Classic ?? Although our project is small, we do have a good number of brackets that are defined by near terminal SNP.?
??
??
Given privacy concerns, I suppose I should also anticipate lots of e-mail exchanges on the subject of Group Project Profile "opt in".
Again, I might have missed something in the "Newsletter" that explains this.?
SMIT
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Hi Richard.? ?I think this has been an issue on the "Project Pages" for a fairly long while since they are
public. In the past, I've periodically had to conduct a small campaign to encourage project members to opt in. There are always a few who didn't want to for whatever reason. I have to respect that. The other issue is that about two years ago, the option to
be in or out moved. I forget where it was before.. I remember it required a healthy scroll-down.? Now it is on the Project Preferences tab under Account Settings on the individuals' home page (dashboard).?
You probably are aware that in GAP, you can sort your Member Information listing (under Member Reports) by clicking the header for the column labeled "Publicly Share DNA Results." That puts all the "NO's" together and allows you to capture the e-mail addresses
to send e-mails to just those people asking them to Opt-In.?
I hope this is helpful.??
-Tom Little
Little Surname DNA Project
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Re: Information Regarding FT209276
Thank you; for your common decency and kindness to respond and share the knowledge.
Philosophy, history, science..
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Re: Consequences of "Opt-out" Group Project Profile
Hi Richard.? ?I think this has been an issue on the "Project Pages" for a fairly long while since they are public. In the past, I've periodically had to conduct a small campaign to encourage project members to opt in. There are always a few who didn't want to for whatever reason. I have to respect that. The other issue is that about two years ago, the option to be in or out moved. I forget where it was before.. I remember it required a healthy scroll-down.? Now it is on the Project Preferences tab under Account Settings on the individuals' home page (dashboard).?
You probably are aware that in GAP, you can sort your Member Information listing (under Member Reports) by clicking the header for the column labeled "Publicly Share DNA Results." That puts all the "NO's" together and allows you to capture the e-mail addresses to send e-mails to just those people asking them to Opt-In.?
I hope this is helpful.??
-Tom Little
Little Surname DNA Project
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Re: Geographic Projects at FTDNA
Thanks you, Joe.? That's very helpful.??
- Tom
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Re: Geographic Projects at FTDNA
Hi Brian - so true!? thanks for your shared experience and insights. Leo did his best with minimal data...
leake
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Re: Geographic Projects at FTDNA
Hi Tom and Leake,
The U106>L1/S26>A410>A673 Foxes, who are among your closest matches, are definitely of Wiltshire origin and Joe Grubb, who is also A680 said his ancestors were in nearby HerefordShire.
Joe
?
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Re: New Big Y results; The Foster/Forrester ...........Wallace connection
Hi Brian,
Thanks for chiming in. I think that the key data cited in the essay is taken from the same sources any newer research might have relied upon, in particular the charters. It is fortunate for us that Walter FitzAlan endowed a branch of Melrose Abbey in Mauchline, as this generated a number of records for posterity. The PoMS website contains much key material here. For a more general history, there are recent references in Wikipedia articles, e.g., to works by MacDonald and Barrow, though they might not possess the specificity we might achieve by correlating historical records with DNA.
Cheers, Roy
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On 2/5/24 18:05, Brian Swann wrote: The only comment I would make about the essay quoted is that it seems to have been written around 1950.
Would modern scholars in early Scottish history agree with the conclusions promulgated in a 1950 article. A lot of effort has been put in recent years to generate information on names in early charters, etc.
It works better with most forms of science and history if the references you quote reflect more modern thinking on the subject.
Anyway, the University of Strathclyde will sort out all Scottish history and it will all become done and dusted.
Brian
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Consequences of "Opt-out" Group Project Profile
I am co-administrator to a relatively small surname project.
I recently noticed that the DNA Classic Table that is viewable by group members and the public is absent members that are otherwise visible in the administrator's page view.? ??
Today, the lead administrator and I came to the realization that if a member has not "opted in" to the Group Project Profile, the member will not be visible int the DNA classic chart, Big Y or other Y result.? Again, "opt outs" are visible in the DNA Result
Classic that is accessible to Administrators at Administrator page.?
I recall the notification that Big-Y testers had to "opt in" to Group Project Profile" in order to be visible in the Group Time Tree, but I do not recall a note stating that an "opt out" to Group Project Profile would result in one's absence from "DNA Results
Classic" at member sight.?
This might be a case of my being last to know, but I thought it worth a note.
Smitty
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Re: Help with interpreting surprising yDNA results (Irish)
Hello °ä¾±²¹°ù¨¢²Ô
FTDNA did about 36,000 FF predictions (their terminology) in the couple of days around Dec 7th, and another about 3,000 around Jan 31st.
Their initial timetable suggested it would take some months, but this has obviously been impacted by more important issues of late.
Kind regards John
|
Re: Help with interpreting surprising yDNA results (Irish)
Hello Linda I have 807 25 marker matches, 405 of those have taken the FF test. The majority of the FF testers are still at M269. It would help me if FTDNA gave them the YDNA info from their FF tests ASAP. I don't know how far down from M269 they are going with the YDNA? info. There are only 62 S5556 testers in the discover pages. A 25 marker match with the S5556 status would be great for my research.
°ä¾±²¹°ù¨¢²Ô
On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 05:25:19 PM UTC, Linda Wheaton via groups.io <lbucher@...> wrote:
My dad has quite a few new matches at the 25 and 12 markers that he did not have before. I think he only had 10 or 11 25's and a few more 12's. He has no changes above the 25 marker matches.
None of the new matches look very promising. His closest matches are still at a genetic difference of 7, but I did find a marriage between a woman with his surname and the surname of one of his matches from Germany. It took place in the 1600's and could be an adoption of a son from a prior marriage. Sadly, the match has no tree.
On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 03:29:47 AM CST, C.B. via groups.io <irishz156@...> wrote:
Kevin A Big Y test would show the bard how far back his DF98 branch was in Ireland!!
Also, FTDNA are dragging their heels with the Y info from the Family Finder tests. Z156 went from 4,516 to 4,564 since the 1st November. The info from the Family Finder tests could help us all. These three YSNP RSIDs are from my 23andme autosomal file. Surely FTDNA's Family Finder tests contain these also!
Z156? rs770355795 G
S5520 rs754136806 A
S5556 i705809 G
°ä¾±²¹°ù¨¢²Ô
On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 11:11:56 PM UTC, Kevin Terry <kevintyrry@...> wrote:
A good idea might be to do a Y 37 DNA test with FT. The matches list should show whether you are a Daly or some other surname a few centuries ago!
--
Kevin Terry
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Re: Help with interpreting surprising yDNA results (Irish)
These three YSNP RSIDs are from my 23andme autosomal file. Surely FTDNA's Family Finder tests contain these also!
?
Z156? rs770355795 G
S5520 rs754136806 A
S5556 i705809 G
°ä¾±²¹°ù¨¢²Ô
The first two SNPs are listed in the Family Finder Google Docs from Vince.? ?Z156 and S5520
S5556 is not in the Google Docs, although it's still possible if more SNPs are listed.
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Re: New Big Y results; The Foster/Forrester ...........Wallace connection
The only comment I would make about the essay quoted is that it seems to have been written around 1950.
Would modern scholars in early Scottish history agree with the conclusions promulgated in a 1950 article. A lot of effort has been put in recent years to generate information on names in early charters, etc.
It works better with most forms of science and history if the references you quote reflect more modern thinking on the subject.
Anyway, the University of Strathclyde will sort out all Scottish history and it will all become done and dusted.
Brian
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Roy Sent: Monday, February 5, 2024 7:32 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [R1b-U106] New Big Y results; The Foster/Forrester ...........Wallace connection I would like to add a brief comment on A-6535, of which I am a member. While the Bruce grant of lands in Annandale dates to 1124, it appears that the 1st Lord of Annandale did not take up residence in Scotland, and while his earliest descendants may have done so, at least a few generations of them continued to be buried at estates in Yorkshire, England. Walter FitzAlan, meanwhile, after having to forfeit his baronial holdings in Shropshire and Norfolk due to his support for Empress Matilda, ventured north to Ayrshire at the invitation of David I, undoubtedly with his entire household and a large retinue of dependents in tow, in 1141, witnessing a charter for the king the following year. His mandate was to implant Norman style feudalism, for which purpose he created a system of vassals who were allotted holdings for their own maintenance in return for military and other service. The the Viking presence in the Isles remained a threat that did not abate until the Battle of Largs in 1263, after which grants of land were made to Boyds, Cunninghams and Muirs in Ayrshire for their role in the conflict. In fact, the surnames under A-6535 fit quite comfortably into Ayrshire: Among the FitzAlan/Stewart vassals are Richard Wallace and Peter de Curri, as well asTempleton, Pattison, and Thompson. My own Keys most likely derives from McKey, potentially traceable to a modern-day Keys Hill, which is probably identical to a feature that appears on a 17th century map as Makiestoun. The temptation to associate Peter de Curri with Annandale entails certain risks, as the Annandale name is invariably spelled with an "o", while the Ayrshire one is most often "u", e.g., Petrus de Curri (even though it may be rendered "Corrie" in modern sources). Black's Surnames, which refers to Currie as simply a variant of Corrie, mistakenly attributes a grant of land in Ayrshire in favour of Melrose Abbey to "Phillip de Curry", whereas it was in fact made by Peter. Another Curri, Perus or Piers, is identified as the knight whose name is linked to the Battle of Largs, where the Scottish contingents were almost certainly under the command of Alexander of Dundonald, High Steward of Scotland. It may be sheer coincidence that my first ancestor in Ireland, Duncan McKey, held the position of steward (seneschal) in the household of the undertaker (Plantation land grantee) Sir William Hamilton. Anyone wishing to explore the early Norman presence in Ayrshire further may consult this essay: <> Cheers, Roy
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Re: New Big Y results; The Foster/Forrester ...........Wallace connection
I would like to add a brief comment on A-6535, of which I am a member. While the Bruce grant of lands in Annandale dates to 1124, it appears that the 1st Lord of Annandale did not take up residence in Scotland, and while his earliest descendants may have done so, at least a few generations of them continued to be buried at estates in Yorkshire,? England. Walter FitzAlan, meanwhile, after having to forfeit his baronial holdings in Shropshire and Norfolk due to his support for Empress Matilda, ventured north to Ayrshire at the invitation of David I, undoubtedly with his entire household and a large retinue of dependents in tow, in 1141, witnessing a charter for the king the following year. His mandate was to implant Norman style feudalism, for which purpose he created a system of vassals who were allotted holdings for their own maintenance in return for military and other service. The the Viking presence in the Isles remained a threat that did not abate until the Battle of Largs in 1263, after which grants of land were made to Boyds, Cunninghams and Muirs in Ayrshire for their role in the conflict.
In fact, the surnames under A-6535 fit quite comfortably into Ayrshire: among the FitzAlan/Stewart vassals are Richard Wallace and Peter de Curri, as well asTempleton, Pattison, and Thompson. My own Keys most likely derives from McKey, potentially traceable to a modern-day Keys Hill, which is probably identical to a feature that appears on a 17th century map as Makiestoun. The temptation to associate Peter de Curri with Annandale entails certain risks, as the Annandale name is invariably spelled with an "o", while the Ayrshire one is most often "u", e.g., Petrus de Curri (even though it may be rendered "Corrie" in modern sources). Black's Surnames, which refers to Currie as simply a variant of Corrie, mistakenly attributes a grant of land in Ayrshire in favour of Melrose Abbey to "Phillip de Curry", whereas it was in fact made by Peter. Another Curri, Perus or Piers, is identified as the knight whose name is linked to the Battle of Largs, where the Scottish contingents were almost certainly under the command of Alexander of Dundonald, High Steward of Scotland. It may be sheer coincidence that my first ancestor in Ireland, Duncan McKey, held the position of steward (seneschal) in the household of the undertaker (Plantation land grantee) Sir William Hamilton.
Anyone wishing to explore the early Norman presence in Ayrshire further may consult this essay: <>
Cheers, Roy
|
Ewenn
Al
T J Little
Leake Little