Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Creepy Surprise: Medieval Skeleton Discovered Under Uprooted Tree
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Hello Forum, I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.? It's important to note, that DF21's 7 Septs of Laois doesn't include McEvoy/McAvoy. Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both WESTMEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.? I've read that the surname McEvoy's origin is WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated directly over to Westmeath circa FGC48010 and A663....even as late as the Roman invasion in 1st century+/-?? ?? The Deceangli cousins in Leinster were the Gangani and Concani....from article... " The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales.? But, what if they actually went from Wales to Leinster? I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh.? It's interesting to note that the Fir Domnann appear in Leinster and north Mayo.? Could my group descend from the Fir Domnann?? However, researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann might be ZZ32>L1402, Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32 (Y DNA does point to ZZ32 as Dumnonii). I would love your thoughts on this. Cheers, Sharon Kelly admin/A663 
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Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Thank you, Paul, for the clarification.? I still feel a rank amateur but a better informed?one.
Tim, ? FTDNA¡¯s TiP tool estimates distance to common ancestor is the best we have. But it assumes no convergence, so it is only really useful for about 300 years. Convergence is a major problem with the two major groups that I look at (M222 and CTS4466) and I expect all Corded Ware descendants. I have well over 400 matches at Y67 that have tested Y111 and do not match me there. I have only 3 matches at Y111, so more than 99% of my Y67 matches are not matches at all. ? I tend to leave it to others to link SNPs to ancient tribes (but find the reading interesting). ? Paul ? ? Ah, thanks Paul.? It would be good to have a rule of thumb to tell you how? far back in prehistory?the?111 and 67 markers take you, as opposed to the Big Y.? The lesser matches are more subject to genetic drift, I take it. Is it generally thought that the Ui Fidgenti and the Ui Liathain are related groups? Just curious.? Thanks again. ? Tim ? FT83642 is under R-A15518 which is a sibling of R-A155 under R-A89. I think that you are working of an old version of the tree. ? Your Stewart/Stuart matches are commonly BY78453 or BY11989.1 which breaks from our ancestry at DF13, which is significantly older than CTS4466. These Scots split from us about the time or slightly before the R1b invasion of the British Isles. It is convergence that has led them to be STR matches with us. ? Paul O¡¯Donnell ? ? Dear John, ? ? Thanks?for the post in response to Sharon's fascinating?summary, I'm also interested in genetic links between east?Cork and Britain, and
Renfrewshire in?Scotland in particular.? I'm R-A 155 (R-FT83642). ? ? ?Are you able to point to sources for the history of the Ui Liathain?? As an Erwin from east Cork who has taken the Big Y, I've got close Irish matches
with gentlemen named O'Connor and Irwin.? The surname I/Erwin seems to?? originate around Kilmeedy in Limerick.? In Irish it's O h-Eireamhoin?or? O Ciarmacain and may have to do with worship of the?goddess Aine. In historical times my emigrant couple left from Cloyne parish in 1837. ? ? ? Oddly, I have quite a few Scots matches at the 67-marker level and 33 matches with the surname Stewart or Stuart.? Even if more folks named? Stewart have tested their paternal ancestry,?that's still a lot. Other Scots surnames? turning up at that level among the?predominantly?Munster names are Caldwell
and Huey.? ? ? ?Anything?I should be reading?? ?Thanks again for any help and best wishes, ? I am separately investigating the connections between the U¨ª Liath¨¢in from east Cork (R-A541 => R-A151) and the Irish Sea littoral, including both south and north Wales. Including at least one branch that seems to have originated in the 7/8th century in Britain. The U¨ª Liath¨¢in founded colonies in western Britain (Wales, Cornwall and possibly further north) from at least the fourth century and were accompanied by D¨¦isi and Laigin. And were hired by the Empire as foederati (mercenaries) to protect it from the wild(er) Irish! ? Hello Forum,
I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.??
Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both WESTMEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.?
I've read that the surname McEvoy's origin is WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated directly over to Westmeath circa FGC48010 and A663....even as late as the Roman invasion in 1st century+/-?? ?? The Deceangli cousins in Leinster were the Gangani and Concani....from article... "The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales.? But, what if they actually went from Wales to Leinster?
I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh.? It's interesting to note that the Fir Domnann appear in Leinster and north Mayo.? Could my group descend from the Fir Domnann?? However, researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann might be ZZ32>L1402, Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32 (Y DNA does point to ZZ32 as Dumnonii).
I would love your thoughts on this.
Cheers,
Sharon Kelly
admin/A663
|
Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Tim, ? FTDNA¡¯s TiP tool estimates distance to common ancestor is the best we have. But it assumes no convergence, so it is only really useful for about 300 years. Convergence is a major problem with the two major groups that I look at (M222 and CTS4466) and I expect all Corded Ware descendants. I have well over 400 matches at Y67 that have tested Y111 and do not match me there. I have only 3 matches at Y111, so more than 99% of my Y67 matches are not matches at all. ? I tend to leave it to others to link SNPs to ancient tribes (but find the reading interesting). ? Paul ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Daniel Erwin
Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2021 1:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath? Ah, thanks Paul.? It would be good to have a rule of thumb to tell you how? far back in prehistory?the?111 and 67 markers take you, as opposed to the Big Y.? The lesser matches are more subject to genetic drift, I take it. Is it generally thought that the Ui Fidgenti and the Ui Liathain are related groups? Just curious.? Thanks again. ? Tim ? FT83642 is under R-A15518 which is a sibling of R-A155 under R-A89. I think that you are working of an old version of the tree. ? Your Stewart/Stuart matches are commonly BY78453 or BY11989.1 which breaks from our ancestry at DF13, which is significantly older than CTS4466. These Scots split from us about the time or slightly before the R1b invasion of the British Isles. It is convergence that has led them to be STR matches with us. ? Paul O¡¯Donnell ? ? Dear John, ? ? Thanks?for the post in response to Sharon's fascinating?summary, I'm also interested in genetic links between east?Cork and Britain, and
Renfrewshire in?Scotland in particular.? I'm R-A 155 (R-FT83642). ? ? ?Are you able to point to sources for the history of the Ui Liathain?? As an Erwin from east Cork who has taken the Big Y, I've got close Irish matches
with gentlemen named O'Connor and Irwin.? The surname I/Erwin seems to?? originate around Kilmeedy in Limerick.? In Irish it's O h-Eireamhoin?or? O Ciarmacain and may have to do with worship of the?goddess Aine. In historical times my emigrant couple left from Cloyne parish in 1837. ? ? ? Oddly, I have quite a few Scots matches at the 67-marker level and 33 matches with the surname Stewart or Stuart.? Even if more folks named? Stewart have tested their paternal ancestry,?that's still a lot. Other Scots surnames? turning up at that level among the?predominantly?Munster names are Caldwell
and Huey.? ? ? ?Anything?I should be reading?? ?Thanks again for any help and best wishes, ? I am separately investigating the connections between the U¨ª Liath¨¢in from east Cork (R-A541 => R-A151) and the Irish Sea littoral, including both south and north Wales. Including at least one branch that seems to have originated in the 7/8th century in Britain. The U¨ª Liath¨¢in founded colonies in western Britain (Wales, Cornwall and possibly further north) from at least the fourth century and were accompanied by D¨¦isi and Laigin. And were hired by the Empire as foederati (mercenaries) to protect it from the wild(er) Irish! ? Hello Forum,
I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.??
Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both WESTMEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.?
I've read that the surname McEvoy's origin is WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated directly over to Westmeath circa FGC48010 and A663....even as late as the Roman invasion in 1st century+/-?? ?? The Deceangli cousins in Leinster were the Gangani and Concani....from article... "The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales.? But, what if they actually went from Wales to Leinster?
I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh.? It's interesting to note that the Fir Domnann appear in Leinster and north Mayo.? Could my group descend from the Fir Domnann?? However, researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann might be ZZ32>L1402, Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32 (Y DNA does point to ZZ32 as Dumnonii).
I would love your thoughts on this.
Cheers,
Sharon Kelly
admin/A663
|
Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Ah, thanks Paul.? It would be good to have a rule of thumb to tell you how? far back in prehistory?the?111 and 67 markers take you, as opposed to the Big Y.? The lesser matches are more subject to genetic drift, I take it.
Is it generally thought that the Ui Fidgenti and the Ui Liathain are related groups? Just curious.? Thanks again.
Tim ? FT83642 is under R-A15518 which is a sibling of R-A155 under R-A89. I think that you are working of an old version of the tree. ? Your Stewart/Stuart matches are commonly BY78453 or BY11989.1 which breaks from our ancestry at DF13, which is significantly older than CTS4466. These Scots split from us about the time or slightly before the R1b invasion of the British Isles. It is convergence that has led them to be STR matches with us. ? Paul O¡¯Donnell ? ? Dear John, ? ? Thanks?for the post in response to Sharon's fascinating?summary, I'm also interested in genetic links between east?Cork and Britain, and
Renfrewshire in?Scotland in particular.? I'm R-A 155 (R-FT83642). ? ? ?Are you able to point to sources for the history of the Ui Liathain?? As an Erwin from east Cork who has taken the Big Y, I've got close Irish matches
with gentlemen named O'Connor and Irwin.? The surname I/Erwin seems to?? originate around Kilmeedy in Limerick.? In Irish it's O h-Eireamhoin?or? O Ciarmacain and may have to do with worship of the?goddess Aine. In historical times my emigrant couple left from Cloyne parish in 1837. ? ? ? Oddly, I have quite a few Scots matches at the 67-marker level and 33 matches with the surname Stewart or Stuart.? Even if more folks named? Stewart have tested their paternal ancestry,?that's still a lot. Other Scots surnames? turning up at that level among the?predominantly?Munster names are Caldwell
and Huey.? ? ? ?Anything?I should be reading?? ?Thanks again for any help and best wishes, ? I am separately investigating the connections between the U¨ª Liath¨¢in from east Cork (R-A541 => R-A151) and the Irish Sea littoral, including both south and north Wales. Including at least one branch that seems to have originated in the 7/8th century in Britain. The U¨ª Liath¨¢in founded colonies in western Britain (Wales, Cornwall and possibly further north) from at least the fourth century and were accompanied by D¨¦isi and Laigin. And were hired by the Empire as foederati (mercenaries) to protect it from the wild(er) Irish! ? Hello Forum,
I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.??
Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both WESTMEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.?
I've read that the surname McEvoy's origin is WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated directly over to Westmeath circa FGC48010 and A663....even as late as the Roman invasion in 1st century+/-?? ?? The Deceangli cousins in Leinster were the Gangani and Concani....from article... "The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales.? But, what if they actually went from Wales to Leinster?
I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh.? It's interesting to note that the Fir Domnann appear in Leinster and north Mayo.? Could my group descend from the Fir Domnann?? However, researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann might be ZZ32>L1402, Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32 (Y DNA does point to ZZ32 as Dumnonii).
I would love your thoughts on this.
Cheers,
Sharon Kelly
admin/A663
|
Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Tim ? FT83642 is under R-A15518 which is a sibling of R-A155 under R-A89. I think that you are working of an old version of the tree. ? Your Stewart/Stuart matches are commonly BY78453 or BY11989.1 which breaks from our ancestry at DF13, which is significantly older than CTS4466. These Scots split from us about the time or slightly before the R1b invasion of the British Isles. It is convergence that has led them to be STR matches with us. ? Paul O¡¯Donnell ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Daniel Erwin
Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2021 10:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath? Dear John, ? ? Thanks?for the post in response to Sharon's fascinating?summary, I'm also interested in genetic links between east?Cork and Britain, and
Renfrewshire in?Scotland in particular.? I'm R-A 155 (R-FT83642). ? ? ?Are you able to point to sources for the history of the Ui Liathain?? As an Erwin from east Cork who has taken the Big Y, I've got close Irish matches
with gentlemen named O'Connor and Irwin.? The surname I/Erwin seems to?? originate around Kilmeedy in Limerick.? In Irish it's O h-Eireamhoin?or? O Ciarmacain and may have to do with worship of the?goddess Aine. In historical times my emigrant couple left from Cloyne parish in 1837. ? ? ? Oddly, I have quite a few Scots matches at the 67-marker level and 33 matches with the surname Stewart or Stuart.? Even if more folks named? Stewart have tested their paternal ancestry,?that's still a lot. Other Scots surnames? turning up at that level among the?predominantly?Munster names are Caldwell
and Huey.? ? ? ?Anything?I should be reading?? ?Thanks again for any help and best wishes, ? I am separately investigating the connections between the U¨ª Liath¨¢in from east Cork (R-A541 => R-A151) and the Irish Sea littoral, including both south and north Wales. Including at least one branch that seems to have originated in the 7/8th century in Britain. The U¨ª Liath¨¢in founded colonies in western Britain (Wales, Cornwall and possibly further north) from at least the fourth century and were accompanied by D¨¦isi and Laigin. And were hired by the Empire as foederati (mercenaries) to protect it from the wild(er) Irish! ? Hello Forum,
I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.??
Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both WESTMEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.?
I've read that the surname McEvoy's origin is WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated directly over to Westmeath circa FGC48010 and A663....even as late as the Roman invasion in 1st century+/-?? ?? The Deceangli cousins in Leinster were the Gangani and Concani....from article... "The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales.? But, what if they actually went from Wales to Leinster?
I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh.? It's interesting to note that the Fir Domnann appear in Leinster and north Mayo.? Could my group descend from the Fir Domnann?? However, researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann might be ZZ32>L1402, Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32 (Y DNA does point to ZZ32 as Dumnonii).
I would love your thoughts on this.
Cheers,
Sharon Kelly
admin/A663
|
Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Dear John,
? ? Thanks?for the post in response to Sharon's fascinating?summary, I'm also interested in genetic links between east?Cork and Britain, and
Renfrewshire in?Scotland in particular.? I'm R-A 155 (R-FT83642).
? ? ?Are you able to point to sources for the history of the Ui Liathain?? As an Erwin from east Cork who has taken the Big Y, I've got close Irish matches
with gentlemen named O'Connor and Irwin.? The surname I/Erwin seems to?? originate around Kilmeedy in Limerick.? In Irish it's O h-Eireamhoin?or? O Ciarmacain and may have to do with worship of the?goddess Aine. In historical times my emigrant couple left from Cloyne parish in 1837.
? ? ? Oddly, I have quite a few Scots matches at the 67-marker level and 33 matches with the surname Stewart or Stuart.? Even if more folks named? Stewart have tested their paternal ancestry,?that's still a lot. Other Scots surnames? turning up at that level among the?predominantly?Munster names are Caldwell
and Huey.?
? ? ?Anything?I should be reading?? ?Thanks again for any help and best wishes,
As ever,
Tim Erwin
? ? ? ??
Sharon,
Fascinating!
I am separately investigating the connections between the U¨ª Liath¨¢in from east Cork (R-A541 => R-A151) and the Irish Sea littoral, including both south and north Wales. Including at least one branch that seems to have originated in the 7/8th century in Britain.
The U¨ª Liath¨¢in founded colonies in western Britain (Wales, Cornwall and possibly further north) from at least the fourth century and were accompanied by
D¨¦isi and Laigin. And were hired by the Empire as foederati (mercenaries) to protect it from the wild(er) Irish!
John.
Hello Forum,
I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.??
Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both WESTMEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.?
I've read that the surname McEvoy's origin is WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated directly over to Westmeath circa FGC48010 and A663....even as late as the Roman invasion in 1st century+/-?? ?? The Deceangli cousins in Leinster were the Gangani and Concani....from article... "The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales.? But, what if they actually went from Wales to Leinster?
I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh.? It's interesting to note that the Fir Domnann appear in Leinster and north Mayo.? Could my group descend from the Fir Domnann?? However, researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann might be ZZ32>L1402, Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32 (Y DNA does point to ZZ32 as Dumnonii).
I would love your thoughts on this.
Cheers,
Sharon Kelly
admin/A663
|
Re: FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Sharon,
Fascinating!
I am separately investigating the connections between the U¨ª Liath¨¢in from east Cork (R-A541 => R-A151) and the Irish Sea littoral, including both south and north Wales. Including at least one branch that seems to have originated in the 7/8th century in Britain.
The U¨ª Liath¨¢in founded colonies in western Britain (Wales, Cornwall and possibly further north) from at least the fourth century and were accompanied by
D¨¦isi and Laigin. And were hired by the Empire as foederati (mercenaries) to protect it from the wild(er) Irish!
John.
Hello Forum,
I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.??
Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both WESTMEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.?
I've read that the surname McEvoy's origin is WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated directly over to Westmeath circa FGC48010 and A663....even as late as the Roman invasion in 1st century+/-?? ?? The Deceangli cousins in Leinster were the Gangani and Concani....from article... "The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales.? But, what if they actually went from Wales to Leinster?
I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh.? It's interesting to note that the Fir Domnann appear in Leinster and north Mayo.? Could my group descend from the Fir Domnann?? However, researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann might be ZZ32>L1402, Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32 (Y DNA does point to ZZ32 as Dumnonii).
I would love your thoughts on this.
Cheers,
Sharon Kelly
admin/A663
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FGC84010>A663 from Wales to Meath / Westmeath
Hello Forum, I'm researching CTS4466>A663, and have been requesting the A663 men, for several years, to join CTS4466Plus project.? Their ancestors are mainly found in Leinster.? Nigel McCarthy dates A663 starting at 300AD (iain McDonald 23AD).? A663 includes Septs surnames; Moore, Lawlor, Dowling, McEvoy/McAvoy.? Researcher Niall Moore noticed in 2017 that my A663 men might be 7 Septs of Laois.? He continues his amazing research on that.? It's important to note, that DF21's 7 Septs of Laois doesn't include McEvoy/McAvoy, but A663 does. Upstream from A663 is FGC84010 circa 250BC.? Downstream of FGC84010 is also A541 where Hart appears (ancestors lived in Westleigh near Liverpool).? The origin of surname Hart is both MEATH and Durham Eng.? ?Upstream from FGC84010 is S1115, where you'll find surnames Roberts and Jones under BY23591.? Origin of surname Roberts is Denbighshire north Wales (in Deceangli territory).? Origin of Jones, in Wales, is in Silures territory (south Wales) and later found in Anglesey near the Deceangli.? ?Downstream from CTS4466 is A7751, showing surnames Gordon, Morgan, Jones.? All Welsh surnames.? I've read that the origin for the surname McEvoy was WESTMEATH.? Therefore, could FGC11134 and CTS4466 and S1115 and FGC48010 all originate around the Deceangli (north Wales) then some migrated, back and forth, between Wales and Westmeath?? Or were they originally in Ireland???? from article... " The tribes appear to have been split between??and Britain. While in the latter they were called the Gangani and Deceangli, directly across the Irish Sea their cousins were the Concani or Gangani (in the region which later formed part of?). It seems that they may have first settled in Ireland and then migrated to western Britain by the first century BC at the latest, as the name 'Lleyn' peninsula seems to be derived from Laigin, the older form of Leinster."? ??This article states they went from Leinster to Wales. But there's no proof they originated in Leinster. I also noticed a feed in this forum, from August 2020, regarding a research paper stating some 4,000 year old FGC11134 bones were found in Sligo and Fermanagh and a S1115+ burial in MEATH from 60-420AD.? Therefore, FGC11134 was definitely in Ireland circa 4,000 years ago, and until FGC11134 (and CTS4466) bones are found in Wales, it will be hard to prove they originated there, too.? There's no doubt A7751 and S1115 both include lots of Welsh surnames.? Were they Deceangli?? ?I will need to research more on that. Side note:? Researcher Robert Moore believes the Fir Domnann (found in Leinster) might be ZZ32>L1402 (DF21's 7 Septs), Damnonii were ZZ32>L627 (Clan Muir) and Dumnonii of Devon also of ZZ32. I would love your thoughts on this. Cheers, Sharon Kelly admin/A663 
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The O¡¯Carrolls of Eoganacht Locha Lein
The O¡¯Carrolls of Eoganacht Locha Lein. Can anyone point me to a reliable history of this sept after the late 1stmillennium? My interest is a combination of my own Carroll surname (traceable only back to the early 1800s) and my positive test for CTS4466 which signals my connection to the Eoganachta and the Munster area back in that time. Of the various Eoganachta, only that of Lock Lein has O¡¯Carroll associated with it. I would like, therefore, to see if there is any known history of these O¡¯Carrolls going from that time up into the 1800s, some 800 years. (Do NOT bring up the Ely O¡¯Carrolls; they are DF21. Nor anyone with DF27 or M222.)
?
As an aside, my current terminal SNP is all the way down to A809 > FT8178 > A806 > FT119616. I share this line with a Meyers fellow who acknowledges that there was an NPE back in his line. I am not unaware that I too could have an NPE back some time ago and that the both of us might come from any other ruling sept from that time: O¡¯Moriarity, McCarthy, O¡¯Donohue, etc¡ Any hints would be much appreciated.
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Hello, Everyone.
I just signed on to the Forum and realized that we were post-free during May-June-July last year, so I need to break that pattern!
There was a big increase in membership when I sent an email to the whole project in April letting them know that Nigel's Tree had been updated a bit and was available on the Forum files.? Welcome to all of you, and to those who have joined since then.
You should have all gotten an announcement of Family Tree's Father's Day Sale, for both upgrades as well as new orders.? Always a great opportunity for both.
I've edited the Results page a bit - ?- and removed the long, outdated list of the individual groups since I was never able to keep it current.? The rest of the text needs reviewing, and if any of you have any suggestions for what you would like to see, do let me know.?
I think we may be one of the only haplogroup projects that displays a full tree for their section of the tree.? Since Family Tree uses drop-down arrows in order to see the whole tree on their site, it's very difficult to find a particular SNP except for participants who have SNP tested and have an assigned terminal SNP beyond the M269 that everyone else has.? Many thanks to Joe for keeping our tree on the Background page -??- current.? He notes when it was last updated, every two weeks or so.
Thanks to all our admins for their help with keeping the project going, and thanks to all of you who are participating and providing your data for the benefit of the project as well as yourselves.? If you are aware of matches, particularly those who have SNP tested, who are not in the project, please encourage them to join us.? As I always say, the more data the better!
It's predicted to be dry, sunny and 21? here in Ireland today!? Too hot for me...? Enjoy your summer and be safe.
Elizabeth
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Re: Revision of Nigel's IT2 tree
Matt, There are plenty of places where you can find starter information. Start with the Learning Center at the foot of the FTDNA page. If you have a question ask it here. However, people must be able to post the latest information, and here is where it should be posted. ? Paul ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Matteo Sullivan
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2021 3:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] Revision of Nigel's IT2 tree? hi Elizabeth, thank you for the update but I'd like to say that to someone who is not a scientist as myself, all this is just a sequence of codes; I will try in my free time to learn more about DNA, still I think it will take very long before I'd be able understand these maps and codes, so I was thinking why not writing a simple introduction based onto?genealogy factors? this way it would be more understandable to people like me who do understand the importance of this scientific research even if they aren't into science. ? Hello, Everyone.
First, welcome to new members.? Glad to have you join us, and always feel free to ask questions.? This is what the Forum is for!
Nigel has revised his IT2 tree and has asked me to upload it for the project.? He explains: 'Please stress this tree was ¡®retired¡¯ a year ago. This new version (now spread over 18 rather than 14 sheets) is not a systematic update but merely corrects a few errata I have noticed and adds a few further analyses where potentially of interest in developing first millennium origins. The following, however, may answer a few queries. A. Check Important Notice items 2 and 5 on Sheet 1. Then search on your kit number or use the Key Diagram on Sheet 1. Q. I have taken a Big Y test so why am I indicated as testing only 111 STR markers (ref Legend item (b) on Sheet 1)? A.? See Important Notice item 6 on Sheet 1.? For those who tested prior to 2020, permission to display the data was requested on several occasions. Q. I have provided authorisation to display data from any sources, so why are my ¡®private [SNP] variants¡¯ not shown on the tree? A. The IT2 tree does not display ¡®private variants¡¯. However, look closely, as some of these may in fact be shared and identified on the IT2 tree.? Also, uniquely, the IT2 tree does provide an analysis of Panel 6 (and often but not systematically) Panel 7 STR data. For those who have only tested Big Y to the Big Y-500 level, please note that FTDNA has provided a free of charge extraction of Y-700 (Panel 7) STR data in 2020. Q. Why do my most recent shared SNPs differ from those indicated on the Block Tree in the Big Y section on the main page of my FTDNA account? A. No systematic reconciliation of the two trees has been undertaken over the past 14 months. The present IT2 tree update does not show many of the more recent subclades identified from Big Y-700 testing during this period. However, where review?has?been undertaken it may be found that the present IT2 update is in fact the more accurate and FTDNA¡¯s Block tree awaits updating. (FTDNA appears to initially make assumptions about potential shared SNPs where one party has tested or upgraded to Big Y-700 and another only has original Big Y (-500) data in which the number of reads at a locus is zero or very small).'
Nigel's tree has always been an extremely valuable?tool when comparing/studying the CTS4466 haplotree, and we are very grateful that he has revised it.? However, be aware that it does not generally include the branches that have been identified through continued Big Y testing since his last update a year ago.? Please post any questions here, for Nigel?is not on the Forum and?has semi-'retired' from active participation in the project (or any others) so no longer answers individual questions.??
We have almost ten Big Ys outstanding, so we should see at least some more new branches identified over the next months.? Family Tree seems to have regular sales lately, so get ready for the next one if you are thinking about diving into the Big Y.? And, the initial price now for a new person ordering the Big Y is relatively SO affordable now, that you should encourage anyone not yet tested to consider?it when the next sale arrives.
I am aware that James is having issues with the programming of his R Experimental Tree -??- in trying to combine Big Y500 and Big Y-700 data, so the dates shown are not reliable and should not be used for study purposes.? Hopefully he will work his magic and get them sorted soon for us.
Stay safe!
Elizabeth
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Re: Revision of Nigel's IT2 tree
Hi Matt,
The ¡°sequence of codes¡± are proxies for unknown and probably unknowable common ancestors. ?There are very few lineages who have tested enough in group members and out group members to even attempt establishing a real person that genealogists would be interested in.
Honestly, once you get to that level of detail it¡¯s up to the surname projects to start working down details anyway.
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Show quoted text
hi Elizabeth, thank you for the update but I'd like to say that to someone who is not a scientist as myself, all this is just a sequence of codes; I will try in my free time to learn more about DNA, still I think it will take very long before I'd be able understand these maps and codes, so I was thinking why not writing a simple introduction based onto?genealogy factors? this way it would be more understandable to people like me who do understand the importance of this scientific research even if they aren't into science. best regards Matt Hello, Everyone.
First, welcome to new members.? Glad to have you join us, and always feel free to ask questions.? This is what the Forum is for!
Nigel has revised his IT2 tree and has asked me to upload it for the project.? He explains:
'Please stress this tree was ¡®retired¡¯ a year ago. This new version (now spread over 18 rather than 14 sheets) is not a systematic update but merely corrects a few errata I have noticed and adds a few further analyses where potentially of interest in developing first millennium origins. ?? The following, however, may answer a few queries. ? Q. How do I find my kit? A. Check Important Notice items 2 and 5 on Sheet 1. Then search on your kit number or use the Key Diagram on Sheet 1. ? Q. I have taken a Big Y test so why am I indicated as testing only 111 STR markers (ref Legend item (b) on Sheet 1)? A.? See Important Notice item 6 on Sheet 1.? For those who tested prior to 2020, permission to display the data was requested on several occasions. ? Q. I have provided authorisation to display data from any sources, so why are my ¡®private [SNP] variants¡¯ not shown on the tree? A. The IT2 tree does not display ¡®private variants¡¯. However, look closely, as some of these may in fact be shared and identified on the IT2 tree.? Also, uniquely, the IT2 tree does provide an analysis of Panel 6 (and often but not systematically) Panel 7 STR data. For those who have only tested Big Y to the Big Y-500 level, please note that FTDNA has provided a free of charge extraction of Y-700 (Panel 7) STR data in 2020. ? Q. Why do my most recent shared SNPs differ from those indicated on the Block Tree in the Big Y section on the main page of my FTDNA account? A. No systematic reconciliation of the two trees has been undertaken over the past 14 months. The present IT2 tree update does not show many of the more recent subclades identified from Big Y-700 testing during this period. However, where review?has?been undertaken it may be found that the present IT2 update is in fact the more accurate and FTDNA¡¯s Block tree awaits updating. (FTDNA appears to initially make assumptions about potential shared SNPs where one party has tested or upgraded to Big Y-700 and another only has original Big Y (-500) data in which the number of reads at a locus is zero or very small).'
Nigel's tree has always been an extremely valuable?tool when comparing/studying the CTS4466 haplotree, and we are very grateful that he has revised it.? However, be aware that it does not generally include the branches that have been identified through continued Big Y testing since his last update a year ago.? Please post any questions here, for Nigel?is not on the Forum and?has semi-'retired' from active participation in the project (or any others) so no longer answers individual questions.??
We have almost ten Big Ys outstanding, so we should see at least some more new branches identified over the next months.? Family Tree seems to have regular sales lately, so get ready for the next one if you are thinking about diving into the Big Y.? And, the initial price now for a new person ordering the Big Y is relatively SO affordable now, that you should encourage anyone not yet tested to?consider?it when the next sale arrives.
I am aware that James is having issues with the programming of his R Experimental Tree -??- in trying to combine Big Y500 and Big Y-700 data, so the dates shown are not reliable and should not be used for study purposes.? Hopefully he will work his magic and get them sorted soon for us.
Stay safe!
Elizabeth
|
Re: Revision of Nigel's IT2 tree
hi Elizabeth, thank you for the update but I'd like to say that to someone who is not a scientist as myself, all this is just a sequence of codes; I will try in my free time to learn more about DNA, still I think it will take very long before I'd be able
understand these maps and codes, so I was thinking why not writing a simple introduction based onto?genealogy factors? this way it would be more understandable to people like me who do understand the importance of this scientific research even if they aren't into science. best regards Matt
Hello, Everyone.
First, welcome to new members.? Glad to have you join us, and always feel free to ask questions.? This is what the Forum is for!
Nigel has revised his IT2 tree and has asked me to upload it for the project.? He explains:
'Please stress this tree was ¡®retired¡¯ a year ago. This new version (now spread over 18 rather than 14 sheets) is not a systematic update but merely corrects a few errata I have noticed and adds a few further analyses where potentially of interest in developing first millennium origins.
??
The following, however, may answer a few queries.
?
Q. How do I find my kit?
A. Check Important Notice items 2 and 5 on Sheet 1. Then search on your kit number or use the Key Diagram on Sheet 1.
?
Q. I have taken a Big Y test so why am I indicated as testing only 111 STR markers (ref Legend item (b) on Sheet 1)?
A.? See Important Notice item 6 on Sheet 1.? For those who tested prior to 2020, permission to display the data was requested on several occasions.
?
Q. I have provided authorisation to display data from any sources, so why are my ¡®private [SNP] variants¡¯ not shown on the tree?
A. The IT2 tree does not display ¡®private variants¡¯. However, look closely, as some of these may in fact be shared and identified on the IT2 tree.? Also, uniquely, the IT2 tree does provide an analysis of Panel 6 (and often but not systematically) Panel 7 STR data. For those who have only tested Big Y to the Big Y-500 level, please note that FTDNA has provided a free of charge extraction of Y-700 (Panel 7) STR data in 2020.
?
Q. Why do my most recent shared SNPs differ from those indicated on the Block Tree in the Big Y section on the main page of my FTDNA account?
A. No systematic reconciliation of the two trees has been undertaken over the past 14 months. The present IT2 tree update does not show many of the more recent subclades identified from Big Y-700 testing during this period. However, where review?has?been undertaken it may be found that the present IT2 update is in fact the more accurate and FTDNA¡¯s Block tree awaits updating. (FTDNA appears to initially make assumptions about potential shared SNPs where one party has tested or upgraded to Big Y-700 and another only has original Big Y (-500) data in which the number of reads at a locus is zero or very small).'
Nigel's tree has always been an extremely valuable?tool when comparing/studying the CTS4466 haplotree, and we are very grateful that he has revised it.? However, be aware that it does not generally include the branches that have been identified through continued Big Y testing since his last update a year ago.? Please post any questions here, for Nigel?is not on the Forum and?has semi-'retired' from active participation in the project (or any others) so no longer answers individual questions.??
We have almost ten Big Ys outstanding, so we should see at least some more new branches identified over the next months.? Family Tree seems to have regular sales lately, so get ready for the next one if you are thinking about diving into the Big Y.? And, the initial price now for a new person ordering the Big Y is relatively SO affordable now, that you should encourage anyone not yet tested to consider?it when the next sale arrives.
I am aware that James is having issues with the programming of his R Experimental Tree -??- in trying to combine Big Y500 and Big Y-700 data, so the dates shown are not reliable and should not be used for study purposes.? Hopefully he will work his magic and get them sorted soon for us.
Stay safe!
Elizabeth
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File /IT2 Phylogenetic Tree (2021-03-27).pdf uploaded
#file-notice
The following files have been uploaded to
the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: Elizabeth <elizabeth@...>
Description:
Nigel's revised IT2 tree
|
Revision of Nigel's IT2 tree
Hello, Everyone.First, welcome to new members.? Glad to have you join us, and always feel free to ask questions.? This is what the Forum is for!Nigel has revised his IT2 tree and has asked me to upload it for the project.? He explains:
'Please stress this tree was ¡®retired¡¯ a year ago. This new version (now spread over 18 rather than 14 sheets) is not a systematic update but merely corrects a few errata I have noticed and adds a few further analyses where potentially of interest in developing first millennium origins.
??
The following, however, may answer a few queries.
?
Q. How do I find my kit?
A. Check Important Notice items 2 and 5 on Sheet 1. Then search on your kit number or use the Key Diagram on Sheet 1.
?
Q. I have taken a Big Y test so why am I indicated as testing only 111 STR markers (ref Legend item (b) on Sheet 1)?
A.? See Important Notice item 6 on Sheet 1.? For those who tested prior to 2020, permission to display the data was requested on several occasions.
?
Q. I have provided authorisation to display data from any sources, so why are my ¡®private [SNP] variants¡¯ not shown on the tree?
A. The IT2 tree does not display ¡®private variants¡¯. However, look closely, as some of these may in fact be shared and identified on the IT2 tree.? Also, uniquely, the IT2 tree does provide an analysis of Panel 6 (and often but not systematically) Panel 7 STR data. For those who have only tested Big Y to the Big Y-500 level, please note that FTDNA has provided a free of charge extraction of Y-700 (Panel 7) STR data in 2020.
?
Q. Why do my most recent shared SNPs differ from those indicated on the Block Tree in the Big Y section on the main page of my FTDNA account?
A. No systematic reconciliation of the two trees has been undertaken over the past 14 months. The present IT2 tree update does not show many of the more recent subclades identified from Big Y-700 testing during this period. However, where review?has?been undertaken it may be found that the present IT2 update is in fact the more accurate and FTDNA¡¯s Block tree awaits updating. (FTDNA appears to initially make assumptions about potential shared SNPs where one party has tested or upgraded to Big Y-700 and another only has original Big Y (-500) data in which the number of reads at a locus is zero or very small).'
Nigel's tree has always been an extremely valuable?tool when comparing/studying the CTS4466 haplotree, and we are very grateful that he has revised it.? However, be aware that it does not generally include the branches that have been identified through continued Big Y testing since his last update a year ago.? Please post any questions here, for Nigel?is not on the Forum and?has semi-'retired' from active participation in the project (or any others) so no longer answers individual questions.??
We have almost ten Big Ys outstanding, so we should see at least some more new branches identified over the next months.? Family Tree seems to have regular sales lately, so get ready for the next one if you are thinking about diving into the Big Y.? And, the initial price now for a new person ordering the Big Y is relatively SO affordable now, that you should encourage anyone not yet tested to consider?it when the next sale arrives.
I am aware that James is having issues with the programming of his R Experimental Tree -??- in trying to combine Big Y500 and Big Y-700 data, so the dates shown are not reliable and should not be used for study purposes.? Hopefully he will work his magic and get them sorted soon for us.
Stay safe!
Elizabeth
|
Many thanks for keeping us updated. Charlotte Henry Hughes
On Friday, March 12, 2021, 07:51:31 AM EST, Elizabeth <elizabeth@...> wrote:
Hello, All.
Well, I hadn't anticipated a sale so soon, for St. Patrick's Day.? So thank the Saint that we have another opportunity to upgrade at a sale price or get someone to test anew as unbelievable prices, compared to the 'old days'.? A new kit can get the Big Y 700 at a remarkably lower price than was offered when it was introduced, and it now includes not only the whole 111 markers at no additional cost, plus nearly 600 more.? Just $379 for the whole wallop!??
While in the past I always cautioned anyone from ordering the Big Y at the outset for someone they think/hope is related, I don't think you could get 111 markers at that price in the past.? It does open the door to expanding your family tree, and if you have the funds or can persuade someone who has, to order a test, it really is a great way to discover more about your past.? And as I always say, the more data the better for all of you as well as the project.
Welcome to the newest members of the Forum.? More are joining all the time.? We've gone a bit quiet lately, but I hope you will consider posting your questions/thoughts to open discussions that would interest us all.? And if a post does not interest, the delete button is always there.
For you newer folk, if you sign into the Forum online, you will be able to see the past posts, and if you have a thought about a particular subject, even it is an old post, don't hesitate to add your own comments.
Here's to a safe, prosperous 2021!
Elizabeth
|
Hello, All.
Well, I hadn't anticipated a sale so soon, for St. Patrick's Day.? So thank the Saint that we have another opportunity to upgrade at a sale price or get someone to test anew as unbelievable prices, compared to the 'old days'.? A new kit can get the Big Y 700 at a remarkably lower price than was offered when it was introduced, and it now includes not only the whole 111 markers at no additional cost, plus nearly 600 more.? Just $379 for the whole wallop!??
While in the past I always cautioned anyone from ordering the Big Y at the outset for someone they think/hope is related, I don't think you could get 111 markers at that price in the past.? It does open the door to expanding your family tree, and if you have the funds or can persuade someone who has, to order a test, it really is a great way to discover more about your past.? And as I always say, the more data the better for all of you as well as the project.
Welcome to the newest members of the Forum.? More are joining all the time.? We've gone a bit quiet lately, but I hope you will consider posting your questions/thoughts to open discussions that would interest us all.? And if a post does not interest, the delete button is always there.
For you newer folk, if you sign into the Forum online, you will be able to see the past posts, and if you have a thought about a particular subject, even it is an old post, don't hesitate to add your own comments.
Here's to a safe, prosperous 2021!
Elizabeth
|
Joe,
That is correct. DO the math and use that average for an estimate. ALways bear in mind that even SNPs can vary quite a bit (I've seen some lines in genealogical time where one cousin has 1 variant?and the other has 4 in the same timeframe since their common ancestor). For surname connections it's always important?to compare with as much documented genealogy as possible to allow for some correction.?
As for the side of the Block Tree, those are just counters there so you can do quick math when you have numerous varints/equivalents in blocks between two or more males. Same concept as above.
Lucas
Lucas:
You said, in part, in your 5 March 2021 post to our :
¡°If you have done BigY already then you will have a list of private variants. To know just how long ago you diverged from your designated haplogroup you multiply the number of variants by ~80 years (IF you have done BigY700, the current standard). Subtract that number from your birth year and you have an approximate?timeframe.¡±
So, I and two of my matches have all tested BigY700 and are in the haplogroup A806 and its¡¯ three companions. The three of us have an average number of variants of 5 and we could say that we were born about 1950.
Therefore, 5x80=400 and we could say that the three of us broke away from our named haplogroup sometime in the mid-1500s [1950-400] (give or take a lot, I presume).
Is this the right way to make use of what you said?
And, could you explain how the right-most column in the Block Tree can be used along with the above?
Thanks,
Hello, Ed. ? Lucas could not be aware that you only tested the R1b-CTS4466 SNP Pack yourself, so testing Evan will give you more data than you have at the moment.? The results will certainly confirm that you are both A1133, but there is only one identified branch beneath A1133 so far, which he/you are not terribly likely to share, so Evan will probably be classified as A1133 as well, until/unless a close enough match also tests the Big Y.? At the moment, there is probably no one else Y-DNA tested to fit that criteria except you. ? As Lucas points out, the Big Y will identify ¡®Private Variants¡¯ unique to Evan, as well as yourself by implication.? If you both tested the Big Y, one of those private variants would be chosen by Family Tree and named to label the terminal SNP for you and Evan.? Some folks are willing to test close relatives to establish their own surname-specific branch, so it isn¡¯t necessarily academic/trivial to do so.? The Big Y is considerably less expense than it once was (though Family Tree doesn¡¯t provide the raw data BAM file anymore unless you pay extra), and if folks are prepared to pay the price, then I am not one to dissuade them from ordering as long as they understand what they will get for their $$.? Admittedly, it is more often cousins testing than father/son. ? Lucas has an impressive group of McAulays tested in the A151 subclade and illustrates the type of Big Y testing he explained to you. The calculations he describes can be done with the data that Family Tree provides on the various links available to Big Y testers ¨C it might not make much sense to anyone who hasn¡¯t tested the Big Y and seen the screens where this data is found. ? The discount link that Mike sent is really?supposed to be for?RootsTech Connect 2021 Attendees (a conference) and not generally available to anyone, but Family Tree are used to seeing this wider dispersion, whether intended or not.?? But Family Tree are regularly offering sales, and there will almost certainly be a Father¡¯s Day sale of equal discounts coming soon enough ¨C if not one even earlier ¨C so it¡¯s not the ¡®last chance¡¯ for any of you who are still thinking about ordering an upgrade of one kind or another. ? Thanks to all of you for all your testing.? As I always say, more data is better! ? Elizabeth? ? ? Ed,
I think you may have misunderstood how Big Y works. Testing descendants is never recommended,?as you NEVER learn anything new from that. It won't confirm what you are hoping to achieve,?as it doesn't follow with the methodology you describe. If you have done BigY already then you will have a list of private variants. To know just how long ago you diverged from your designated haplogroup you multiply the number of variants by ~80 years (IF you have done BigY700, the current standard). Subtract that number from your birth year and you have an approximate?timeframe. IF this was a single SNP test you took at YSEQ, then it will be from a male much more distant from you, and no way would?it ever be a "terminal SNP".
Testing your son is simply going to create a massive branch for yourself and him which will obviously produce a new haplogroup designation. So if you have 10 variants?for example, you're now going to create a new branch that?has 10 SNPs in it with a new name such as FTA#####). That won't discover anything..it will just place the same already known variants on the tree from which you can ALREADY calculate?your divergence point.
A1133 won't be your "terminal?SNP" (which is mostly used improperly in this field to begin with). A1133 is the name of the haplogroup/branch/SNP that you share with your closest shared match. That's all. Terminal SNP is simply the last SNP mutation that occurred on your line, and requires testing of multiple men going back the last several generations to differentiate between them. If A1133 is from a male before surnames, you've had many new mutations since then. And at the end of the day, once you've had a BIgY match with the most distant known ancestor in common, finding your "terminal SNP" is academic/trivial at best. The point is to go backwards.
The ONLY way you can figure out about your haplogroup is testing cousins from older generations. Not by duplicating data.
Lucas McCaw ? great to get this heads up. ? I upgraded my son Evan's kit from?67 to BigY. ? This will show whether ?A1133 is truly my terminal SNP, once his Big Y data is compiled.? Thanks. ? If you were thinking about upgrading to the Big Y 700, there is a discount until March 7th if you use the promo code below: Here is info on the Big Y:? Thanks and I hope you are staying safe!
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Steve Cotham -- Steve Cotham
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