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On Oct 15, 2024, at 9:41?AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:
Can you send a screenshot of what the mapped curve looks like, like you did before? And are you exposing in the sun? My guess is you need to up your yellow with the yellow slider but won’t know until I see the mapped out curve. Chris ? With the help of Chris Anderson’s Ilford Classic and Warm-tone quad files I’ve have had good success in linearizing D Neg files.? Also, vintage Portriga Rapid linearized very easily.? However, beginning with the Lodima starter curve the lighter curve values for vintage AZO grade 2 simply will not linearize proportionately.
Any suggestions ??
Thanks in advance.
Steve Sherman
Real Photographs are Born Wet !
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Can you send a screenshot of what the mapped curve looks like, like you did before? And are you exposing in the sun? My guess is you need to up your yellow with the yellow slider but won’t
know until I see the mapped out curve.
Chris
?
With the help of Chris Anderson’s Ilford Classic and Warm-tone quad files I’ve have had good success in linearizing D Neg files.? Also, vintage Portriga Rapid linearized very easily.?
However, beginning with the Lodima starter curve the lighter curve values for vintage AZO grade 2 simply will not linearize proportionately.
Any suggestions ??
Thanks in advance.
Steve Sherman
Real Photographs are Born Wet !
|
With the help of Chris Anderson’s Ilford Classic and Warm-tone quad files I’ve have had good success in linearizing D Neg files. Also, vintage Portriga Rapid linearized very easily. However, beginning with the Lodima starter curve the lighter curve values for vintage AZO grade 2 simply will not linearize proportionately.
Any suggestions ??
Thanks in advance.
Steve Sherman
Real Photographs are Born Wet !
|
Too late for me... I had no idea I'd lose functionality of Quad Tone RIP for Piezography fine-art B&W printing using my 2012 iMac earlier this year. I plan to get it down-graded to Mojave ASAP (without losing everything on its hard-drive, I hope) and never upgrade the OS again, keeping the old computer just for printing, unless QTR ever gets updated again.?
--
www.deancully.com
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Mac Operating System Compatibility with QTR and Piezography
My late-2012 27" iMac was functioning well as my Piezography printing computer until, apparently, one day a year or so ago when I upgraded its operating system beyond QTR's capacity for change. If this topic has been addressed, I'd appreciate a link. I do not find a search function here.?
? ??
--
www.deancully.com
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Re: Ilford Silver papers ??
Thanks very much for great info to move forward !!
SS
Real Photographs are Born Wet !
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On Oct 13, 2024, at 7:23?PM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:
?
Steve,
You are correct. Yellow inks and magenta inks do filter light like yellow and magenta filters. But the balance in these profiles is there, and I always start with a no. 2 filter set in the
enlarger (that’s the filter I use for curve iterations) and then I have the ability to go down in contrast and up in contrast with enlarger filters just like normal if I want to vary the image, even with the yellow and magenta inks within the negative itself.
?
If I really wanted to get into the weeds in BW printing I might spend time increasing M and Y inks in different increments to see how the image changes, but for now I just need a great profile
for the BW darkroom to teach in my classes. I find students start my Experimental Darkroom class pretty “analog” and by the end I would say one to none are doing anything other than using digital bw negatives to make their work. It’s just too easy.
?
Douglas Ethridge who wrote the Silver Gelatin in the Digital Age book in the Focal Press series is a master BW printer and his book is full of good information on printing in the BW darkroom
but also on how to edit an image even before it becomes a negative. I have much to learn from him on both that end and also his QTR info.
?
Chris
?
?
Thanks so much to Christina and Richard, I am very new to this D Neg and rely on Clay a lot. ?One thing, I see the Quads that were sent for both Classic and W-Tone Ilford silver papers have a small amount of Magenta and Yellow in the Curve.
?My understanding of MC papers suggests that any color would have some impact on the actual contrast of the resulting silver image, Thoughts ??
Thanks very much in advance,
Steve Sherman
On Oct 13, 2024, at 9:47?AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:
?
I’m attaching my P900 quads that work well for these two papers. Try them and see if they work for you, but at the very least they will be a good starting point to print and run through
QCDN again. I assume you’re using P700/P900.
I do use more inks than you do, though. Your steps 10, 15, 20 are flatlined. If this were to happen I, too, do exactly as Richard suggested: manually adjust the numbers.
I used to use 1- or 2-part profiles with all other printers (3800, 3880, P800) but for some reason when I got to the P900 it behaved differently so I’d get these plateaus or areas of flatness/posterization
in palladium, BW, and cyanotype. Very frustrating. That’s what made me switch to using QCDN and 3 part profiles because I had no idea where to even start to introduce another part (Ron Reeder generally used 2 parts and I used 1 part when he and I co-wrote
the book), although with lumen prints I only still use 1 part (K and Y only) because of the amount of ink necessary to hold back light for a day exposure.
The other thing which may be heresy but I keep a slight “belly” (a Clay Harmon term) on my curves so they bowl down from the straight line slightly which works well with BW. A little more
drama and darkness.
Greetings,
??????? Anyone have a suggestion on how to correct the blips seen in the photos of higher values for both Ilford Warm Tone, and Ilford Classic silver gelatin multi-contrast papers ??? Repeated re-linearizations does not correct
Thanks in advance,
Steve Sherman
<BW-ILFORD-MG-Classic.quad><BW-ILFORD-Warmtone.quad>
?
|
Re: Ilford Silver papers ??
Steve,
You are correct. Yellow inks and magenta inks do filter light like yellow and magenta filters. But the balance in these profiles is there, and I always start with a no. 2 filter set in the
enlarger (that’s the filter I use for curve iterations) and then I have the ability to go down in contrast and up in contrast with enlarger filters just like normal if I want to vary the image, even with the yellow and magenta inks within the negative itself.
?
If I really wanted to get into the weeds in BW printing I might spend time increasing M and Y inks in different increments to see how the image changes, but for now I just need a great profile
for the BW darkroom to teach in my classes. I find students start my Experimental Darkroom class pretty “analog” and by the end I would say one to none are doing anything other than using digital bw negatives to make their work. It’s just too easy.
?
Douglas Ethridge who wrote the Silver Gelatin in the Digital Age book in the Focal Press series is a master BW printer and his book is full of good information on printing in the BW darkroom
but also on how to edit an image even before it becomes a negative. I have much to learn from him on both that end and also his QTR info.
?
Chris
?
?
Thanks so much to Christina and Richard, I am very new to this D Neg and rely on Clay a lot. ?One thing, I see the Quads that were sent for both Classic and W-Tone Ilford silver papers have a small amount of Magenta and Yellow in the Curve.
?My understanding of MC papers suggests that any color would have some impact on the actual contrast of the resulting silver image, Thoughts ??
Thanks very much in advance,
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On Oct 13, 2024, at 9:47?AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:
?
I’m attaching my P900 quads that work well for these two papers. Try them and see if they work for you, but at the very least they will be a good starting point to print and run through
QCDN again. I assume you’re using P700/P900.
I do use more inks than you do, though. Your steps 10, 15, 20 are flatlined. If this were to happen I, too, do exactly as Richard suggested: manually adjust the numbers.
I used to use 1- or 2-part profiles with all other printers (3800, 3880, P800) but for some reason when I got to the P900 it behaved differently so I’d get these plateaus or areas of flatness/posterization
in palladium, BW, and cyanotype. Very frustrating. That’s what made me switch to using QCDN and 3 part profiles because I had no idea where to even start to introduce another part (Ron Reeder generally used 2 parts and I used 1 part when he and I co-wrote
the book), although with lumen prints I only still use 1 part (K and Y only) because of the amount of ink necessary to hold back light for a day exposure.
The other thing which may be heresy but I keep a slight “belly” (a Clay Harmon term) on my curves so they bowl down from the straight line slightly which works well with BW. A little more
drama and darkness.
Greetings,
??????? Anyone have a suggestion on how to correct the blips seen in the photos of higher values for both Ilford Warm Tone, and Ilford Classic silver gelatin multi-contrast papers ??? Repeated re-linearizations does not correct
Thanks in advance,
Steve Sherman
<BW-ILFORD-MG-Classic.quad><BW-ILFORD-Warmtone.quad>
?
|
Re: Ilford Silver papers ??
Thanks so much to Christina and Richard, I am very new to this D Neg and rely on Clay a lot. ?One thing, I see the Quads that were sent for both Classic and W-Tone Ilford silver papers have a small amount of Magenta and Yellow in the Curve. ?My understanding of MC papers suggests that any color would have some impact on the actual contrast of the resulting silver image, Thoughts ??
Thanks very much in advance,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 13, 2024, at 9:47?AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:
Steve, I’m attaching my P900 quads that work well for these two papers. Try them and see if they work for you, but at the very least they will be a good starting point to print and run through QCDN again. I assume you’re using P700/P900. ? I do use more inks than you do, though. Your steps 10, 15, 20 are flatlined. If this were to happen I, too, do exactly as Richard suggested: manually adjust the numbers. ? I used to use 1- or 2-part profiles with all other printers (3800, 3880, P800) but for some reason when I got to the P900 it behaved differently so I’d get these plateaus or areas of flatness/posterization in palladium, BW, and cyanotype. Very frustrating. That’s what made me switch to using QCDN and 3 part profiles because I had no idea where to even start to introduce another part (Ron Reeder generally used 2 parts and I used 1 part when he and I co-wrote the book), although with lumen prints I only still use 1 part (K and Y only) because of the amount of ink necessary to hold back light for a day exposure. ? The other thing which may be heresy but I keep a slight “belly” (a Clay Harmon term) on my curves so they bowl down from the straight line slightly which works well with BW. A little more drama and darkness. ? Chris ? Greetings,
??????? Anyone have a suggestion on how to correct the blips seen in the photos of higher values for both Ilford Warm Tone, and Ilford Classic silver gelatin multi-contrast papers ??? Repeated re-linearizations does not correct
Thanks in advance,
Steve Sherman
|
Re: Ilford Silver papers ??
Steve,
I’m attaching my P900 quads that work well for these two papers. Try them and see if they work for you, but at the very least they will be a good starting point to print and run through
QCDN again. I assume you’re using P700/P900.
?
I do use more inks than you do, though. Your steps 10, 15, 20 are flatlined. If this were to happen I, too, do exactly as Richard suggested: manually adjust the numbers.
?
I used to use 1- or 2-part profiles with all other printers (3800, 3880, P800) but for some reason when I got to the P900 it behaved differently so I’d get these plateaus or areas of flatness/posterization
in palladium, BW, and cyanotype. Very frustrating. That’s what made me switch to using QCDN and 3 part profiles because I had no idea where to even start to introduce another part (Ron Reeder generally used 2 parts and I used 1 part when he and I co-wrote
the book), although with lumen prints I only still use 1 part (K and Y only) because of the amount of ink necessary to hold back light for a day exposure.
?
The other thing which may be heresy but I keep a slight “belly” (a Clay Harmon term) on my curves so they bowl down from the straight line slightly which works well with BW. A little more
drama and darkness.
?
Chris
?
Greetings,
??????? Anyone have a suggestion on how to correct the blips seen in the photos of higher values for both Ilford Warm Tone, and Ilford Classic silver gelatin multi-contrast papers ??? Repeated re-linearizations does not correct
Thanks in advance,
Steve Sherman
|
Re: Ilford Silver papers ??
Double-click on the erroneous measurement in the lefthand table and manually type in a new value to straighten out the curve.
?
Hope that helps,?
Richard Boutwell
?
http://www.richardboutwell.com/
http://www.bwmastery.com/
|
Greetings,
Anyone have a suggestion on how to correct the blips seen in the photos of higher values for both Ilford Warm Tone, and Ilford Classic silver gelatin multi-contrast papers ?? Repeated re-linearizations does not correct
Thanks in advance,
Steve Sherman
|
Re: QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
I’ll answer this as I am the creator of the installer you are referencing. Jon is referencing a Mac workflow (installer script) so may have no realized you were on the PC. I hadn’t realized that either.
Once you run the installer exe for your specific ink setup (in this case it’s the P2 curves so I think you run the HD curve installer) you should be able to do the following.
1. Install the printer using the Epson 3800 driver. 2. In QTRgui select that printer (top right menu). 3. Just below that selection it will automatically drop to the Quad3800-UC curve selector. 4. Don’t use that folder, instead go to Quad3800-P2 or HDP2 (I’m forgetting, it’s been a while since I’ve had to deal with this) it’s right next to the Quad3800-UC folder in the drop down. 5. Your curves will appear as selectable items in the curve selection settings.
best -Walker
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On Oct 9, 2024, at 8:04?PM, Bill Roberson via groups.io <roberson_bill@...> wrote:
That's where I'm installing P2 curves from -- Piezography Community Edition -- but they're not showing up in the curves drop down menu when I run QTR.
On Wednesday, October 9, 2024 at 09:08:51 AM EDT, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
P2 curves are found here:?
best -W On Oct 9, 2024, at 1:12?AM, Roy Harrington via groups.io <roy@...> wrote:
P2 curves are from the piezo products. They are not included with QTR.? So get them from piezo and install using their instructions.?
On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 7:22?PM Bill Roberson via <roberson_bill= [email protected]> wrote: This was corrected but now the problem is that I can't load the P2 curves.? It's showing an abbreviated list that is a different set of curves that print incorrectly, using channels that contain Piezoflush & shouldn't be used.? What am I missing about loading P2?? I even deleted the QuadTone folder left behind after an uninstall but that made no difference, nor did installing an earlier version of QTR.? No matter what I do the same incorrect curves are loaded in QTR.? Thanks for your help, I'm at my wits end.
|
Re: QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
That's where I'm installing P2 curves from -- Piezography Community Edition -- but they're not showing up in the curves drop down menu when I run QTR.
On Wednesday, October 9, 2024 at 09:08:51 AM EDT, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
P2 curves are found here:?
best -W
On Oct 9, 2024, at 1:12?AM, Roy Harrington via groups.io <roy@...> wrote:
P2 curves are from the piezo products. They are not included with QTR.? So get them from piezo and install using their instructions.?
On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 7:22?PM Bill Roberson via <roberson_bill= [email protected]> wrote: This was corrected but now the problem is that I can't load the P2 curves.? It's showing an abbreviated list that is a different set of curves that print incorrectly, using channels that contain Piezoflush & shouldn't be used.? What am I missing about loading P2?? I even deleted the QuadTone folder left behind after an uninstall but that made no difference, nor did installing an earlier version of QTR.? No matter what I do the same incorrect curves are loaded in QTR.? Thanks for your help, I'm at my wits end.
|
Re: QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
Jon,
The command script in the folder I maintain my P2 curves?? I am using the "Install Piezography HD P2 Curves" from the Piezography Community Editions folder.? I didn't create the curves, they were in this install, which is not installing them for some reason.? It drops them into the C:\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP.? I don't understand what you mean by "create the printer that I select for use in QTR"? There's no printer selection although running QTR, it is selecting the correct printer.? Wells Smith when he set me up 2 years ago:? "Per your email I have reconfigured your ink set to a SPED K6 configuration.....Matte only.? Use the P2 chart".? I also tried installing the K6 curves, they also were incorrect.
Thanks, Bill
On Wednesday, October 9, 2024 at 09:28:20 AM EDT, Jon Cone via groups.io <jon@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Bill,
As I instructed you earlier, you need to run the command script in the folder where you maintain your P2 curves that have the unused PiezoFlush filled channels. Running that install script will create the printer that you select for use in QTR, and it will display the curves in that folder when you go to the drop down menu.
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Re: QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
Bill,
As I instructed you earlier, you need to run the command script in the folder where you maintain your P2 curves that have the unused PiezoFlush filled channels. Running that install script will create the printer that you select for use in QTR, and it will display the curves in that folder when you go to the drop down menu.
Best,
Jon
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Re: QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
P2 curves are found here:?
best -W
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 9, 2024, at 1:12?AM, Roy Harrington via groups.io <roy@...> wrote:
P2 curves are from the piezo products. They are not included with QTR.? So get them from piezo and install using their instructions.?
On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 7:22?PM Bill Roberson via <roberson_bill= [email protected]> wrote: This was corrected but now the problem is that I can't load the P2 curves.? It's showing an abbreviated list that is a different set of curves that print incorrectly, using channels that contain Piezoflush & shouldn't be used.? What am I missing about loading P2?? I even deleted the QuadTone folder left behind after an uninstall but that made no difference, nor did installing an earlier version of QTR.? No matter what I do the same incorrect curves are loaded in QTR.? Thanks for your help, I'm at my wits end.
|
Re: QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
P2 curves are from the piezo products. They are not included with QTR.? So get them from piezo and install using their instructions.?
On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 7:22?PM Bill Roberson via <roberson_bill= [email protected]> wrote: This was corrected but now the problem is that I can't load the P2 curves.? It's showing an abbreviated list that is a different set of curves that print incorrectly, using channels that contain Piezoflush & shouldn't be used.? What am I missing about loading P2?? I even deleted the QuadTone folder left behind after an uninstall but that made no difference, nor did installing an earlier version of QTR.? No matter what I do the same incorrect curves are loaded in QTR.? Thanks for your help, I'm at my wits end.
|
Re: QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
This was corrected but now the problem is that I can't load the P2 curves.? It's showing an abbreviated list that is a different set of curves that print incorrectly, using channels that contain Piezoflush & shouldn't be used.? What am I missing about loading P2?? I even deleted the QuadTone folder left behind after an uninstall but that made no difference, nor did installing an earlier version of QTR.? No matter what I do the same incorrect curves are loaded in QTR.? Thanks for your help, I'm at my wits end.
|
QuadTone RIP stopped printing on Epson 3800
I'm at a loss. ?I've been printing for several years without issue using QuadTone RIP and Inkjet Mall Piezography inks on an Epson 3800. ?Now the printer will load the paper & begin printing, but the passes are extremely slow -- ~ 30 seconds & it sounds like it's printing but not laying down ink. ?If I send the test print via PS, the printer works normally. ?The print looks bad because it's set up for piezography but the tones are there. ?I've tried a different curves selection, uninstalling & reinstalling QuadTone & submitting a different file to be printed, but nothing works. ?Any idea why QTR would suddenly start behaving this way while the printer seems to function normally otherwise?
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Re: GRAY_CURVE curve point pair format
I'll definitely take a look at the QCDN handout. Thanks for sending it along! I've been watching Bill Schwab’s videos on YouTube... they've been very helpful.
?
So glad to hear I'm not the only one who gets tripped up thinking in negative lol! I realized, when I read your response, that I was referring to paper white of a positive instead of clear area of the negative. Anyway, I've done some testing and, based on the resulting quads, it looks like my acv conversion script is working as expected.?
?
I actually came across the diagram you attached in one of your books the other day, and it started to click for me. It led me to start using smart object in Photoshop to hack together a way to quickly preview the effect an adjustment to a negative has on the positive. Hoping it'll help me get a better handle on thinking negatively ;)
?
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Thanks again for all the help!
?
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DFC
Richard Boutwell
Jon Cone