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Re: The Advantages of QTR Are?
Diane Fields
开云体育Bernie, that's about it.? I don't think
you can assign a grayscale profile until you 'convert' to grayscale, but I could
be wrong.? Nonetheless, you do need to 'convert' to first the LAB--because
you will probably want to save this as your master tiff.? Then--convert
this file to either gray-matte or gray-photo and save this tiff and use it to
print from.?
?
I haven't printed on the Ilford paper but
after doing step wedges on my Epson Premium Semigloss and laying out all my 11
papers, I found that it was much creamier than I had really ever thought.?
Consequently it affects the 'cool' curve quite a bit, but when you print from a
100% warm to a 100% cool, you can see the differences as you progress from one
to the other and its marked.? My most neutral prints will be on Hahnemuhle
PHotorag, Velvet, Innova Photo Fibaprint and Epson Enhanced Matte--all of which
are matte papers.
?
The RIP won't affect bronzing--because that's
a paper/ink thing.? I haven't sprayed any since I mostly print b/w on matte
paper, but not always.? On the other list they are all spraying their gloss
and semi gloss prints and are using 'glop' (gloss optimizer) in a cart with
their 3rd party inks.? I'll have to try the Lyson spray though--good to
hear when someone likes a particular brand.
?
If you try the softproofing in gray-LAB I
think you would find it helpful also.? You can tweak that final
contrast/tonality if needed.? Have you found the gray file on Roy's
page?
?
Diane
?
?
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Re: QTR EEnh matte cool Se curve
Diane Fields
开云体育Thank you Carl.? I just happened to try
that with the CoolSe--without understanding what the curve was.? Found a
blend I liked and made it a preset.
?
Diane
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Re: The Advantages of QTR Are?
Diane Fields
开云体育Steve, I'm a newbie too at QTR but maybe
because I've read the other list for several years (and have been printing b/w
for a good while, first with the 1280 and with the 2200) and am pretty familiar
with PS, the QTR workflow works for me.
?
No, QTR won't cure bronzing because that's a
function of the ink/paper combo.? If you notice on the Digital/bw list they
spray their prints to counter that problem.? The newer R800 and R1800, we
assume, will deal with the bronzing by using the Gloss Optimizer (and this is
the 'glop' they talk about on the other list--they are adding it into a cart to
use with the black inks--3rd party--like with the MIS inks and Paul Roark's
curves).
?
I don't know of a tutorial.? Did I send
you the post I found of Lou Dina's that explained how to softproof in
QTR?
?
What the step wedges help you with is
envisioning what those particular curves will look like on that particular
paper.? I laid out my 11 sheets with the step wedges on them and was able
to pick out the papers I liked, then I could see what a 75 warm and 25 cool
blend looked like, for instance, on that paper.? I like not quite
neutral--just a bit of warmth to it.? On different papers the curve blend I
might choose could be different--because the tone of the papers affects the
image a great deal.
?
When you open the QTR GUI in Windows and you
select the image file you want to print, then you have to choose a 'curve' for
it down below.? For instance, I want to print on Epson Velvet.? So--I
choose a matte paper in the paper dropdown.? I make the selections as to
dpi, etc. in all the other places.? Probably I would check 'centered' (but
if you are doing step wedge printing, you will keep dragging the step wedge file
around in the window to place it differently for different printing--if you
don't understand this, I can do a print screen and send it to you
offlist).? Now--you need to select your blend percentage (middle box) and
your curves.? Since I use Epson Enhanced matte as a proofing paper for
Velvet, I feel that those curves will be close enough for me for Epson
Velvet.? In the left curve drop down box, I choose EEnhMatte-Cool and in
the right box I choose EEnhmatte-Warm.? From my series of step wedges I did
on my Epson Velvet paper (I did 6 rather than do a long series of
percentages.? Once I establish for sure what papers I'm going to use all
the time, I will do a series of step wedges from 100% cool to 100% warm in 10%
increments) I find that a 60 cool/40 warm is about the blend I like on that
paper.? So--I move the blend slider over to?60 (the blend number
represents the amount of the curve on the left--the one for the cool).? I
did not adjust my ink limit for this paper (though I may in the future) so I
will not make any other slider adjustments for now.? Then---I'm ready to
click on print and that's it.
?
I addressed softproofing in the post to Anne
(Montauk lady).? It will help you correct any tonality/contrast issues with
your print--before you print (for the most part--its pretty difficult to get a
perfect reading on a monitor to match a paper print because of the difference in
the mediums).
?
I hope this is helpful.? I really think
printing the step wedges on the papers you use all the time will be a big
help--and I'll be glad to help you figure out how to do that.
?
Diane.?
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Re: QTR EEnh matte cool Se curve
Carl Schofield
The "CoolSe" curve uses slightly more light magenta than light cyan, whereas a "Cool"
curve uses equal amounts of light magenta and light cyan to cool the warm light black ink. The "CoolSe" is an attempt to emulate the tones of a lightly selenium toned silver gelatin print. You could blend either the "Cool" or "CoolSe" curves with a warm or carbon curve to generate a neutral print. --- In QuadtoneRIP@..., "Diane Fields" <picnic@c...> wrote: Could anyone tell me just what this curve is---is it a blend of Sepia and cool forEEnhMatte? I saw a post not long ago about the use of this curve--with perhaps a warm curve??? Can't remember the context of the post--and am not sure
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Re: The Advantages of QTR Are?
Bernie Raffe
开云体育Hi Steve and Diane ? I’ve been following this carefully, because I’ve been using QTR for my black and whites with reasonable success for the last couple of weeks (with Windows) and didn’t know about the grey icc files. I just use my usual Photoshop b&w workflow and print with QTR (although I make the prints much less warm than I used to – as Steve says they do print rather warm). ? I’m going to give the ICC files a try, but still a bit confused. Leaving the proofing process to one side for the moment, am I right in saying that these are the steps:- ?
? By the way, I use Ilford Smooth Pearl paper and like others have been alarmed by the bronzing affect (printing with QTR doesn’t appear to affect the amount of bronzing). What I’ve been doing is this. If the print was to go under glass for a customer, then I used the QTR printed photo, otherwise I would send the photo off to the lab to be printed. However, I’ve now discovered Lyson Printguard – this spray drastically reduces the bronzing effect and also completely eliminates the gloss differential (which was very noticeable on my prints as I shoot mostly against a white background). So now I print all b&w with QTR. ? Thanks for your help Bernie ? ? ? ? -----Original
Message----- From: Steve
[mailto:blizzie12@...]
Sent: 03 April 2005 19:44 To: QuadtoneRIP@... Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: The Advantages of QTR Are? ?
-- -- |
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Re: The Advantages of QTR Are?
Steve
Thanks, Diane, I'm really struggling with the understanding of this
QTR stuff and you've been very helpful by answering many of my questions on this forum. I'm familar of the metamerism problem caused by the different lighting, but what about 'bronzing' when printing b&w on gloss paper? Is this effect eliminated using the QTR? I'm still not clear on the 'step wedges', 'blends' and 'curves', etc. Do you know where I can find a simplified tutorial that explains how to use this software? I know Roy Harrington talks about it on his QTR site but I'm finding it a little too technical. Looking forward to hearng back from you. Steve --- In QuadtoneRIP@..., "Diane Fields" <picnic@c...> wrote: Steve, the BIG advantage of using QTR over PS is the lack ofmetamerism in monotones. I've printed b/w or monotones for years with first a 1280 and then my 2200. I print from either PS or Qimage. I have been unhappy with metamerism from day one, however the 'alternatives' were pretty expensive (RIPs) or I just hadn't made the decision to go with a dedicated printer yet. When I bought my 2200 several years ago I had strongly considered that path, but had procrastinated 'dealing with' monotones by using duotones which helped a bit (not really--they just visually diverted you a bit with toning). I've subscriebed to the Digital b/w print maillist off and on for a good while, and when I resubbed in late Winter I discovered that there was a reasonably priced RIP available for Windows. I demoed it for several weeks and was sold on it. my reason for printing with it. I do all my postprocessing in PS first, then bring a finished file to QTR, select my blend for the paper I'm using and get excellent prints. In the past I was using Epson Velvet primarily for my matte prints, some Hahnemuhle Photorag. I've just done a series of step wedges on 11 different papers and have a good reference point for other papers also. I use Epson Premium Semigloss for my non-matte prints. your opinions. Thanks! |
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Re: I made a print in QTR I think I did something wrong
Diane Fields
开云体育Just sent this to digitalb/w list
too.
?
Okay, Ann.? Hope this will
help.
?
First of all---the ICC profiles should be (for
windows) in the windows folder (should be available in your dropdown if it and
the other 2 ICC profiles--gray-matte and gray-photo--were placed in your
C/Windows/system 32/spool/drivers/color).? Process your print in PS,
convert to gray-LAB.? ?Now, you can softproof this by going to
view/proof setup/custom and in 'profile'?browse for the QTR-gray matte, set
your intent to 'perceptual' and check 'ink black'.? You will def. see a
difference--and it probably will be 'flatter' looking.? So--here's where
you can tweak--add an adjustment layer of curves perhaps, dodge and burn-- (new
layer/overlay check 18% gray and use your black and white brushes at about 7-9%
opacity) but as far as tonality/contrast, wysiwyg (what you see is what you
get)--but not as far as the 'color tone' though.
?
As far as the profiles, did you put them in
C/program/Quadtone RIP/profiles/2200-uc?? I think you are printing with a
2200 and OEM inks--not sure.? If so, this is where they should go and they
will show up in your dropdowns for your curves.
?
Diane
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I made a print in QTR I think I did something wrong
I made a print in QTR..print looked good..a little warm..then I
re-read the instructions and saw I was supposed to first change the image in photoshop to grey scale from RGB. I did that and the print was terrible..flat no contrast.What did I do wrong? How am I supposed to use the grey space zip file which contains gray matte icc, gray photo icc, rgb lab icc...etc.? They were moved to the QTR folder. Also I downloaded the curves for various papers, extracted them into QTR, but I do not see them pop up in the GUI interface. What am I doing wrong. As always thanks for your support..Ann |
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Re: The Advantages of QTR Are?
Diane Fields
开云体育Steve, the BIG advantage of using QTR over PS
is the lack of metamerism in monotones.? I've printed b/w or monotones for
years with first a 1280 and then my 2200.? I print from either PS or
Qimage.? I have been unhappy with metamerism from day one, however the
'alternatives' were pretty expensive (RIPs) or I just hadn't made the decision
to go with a dedicated printer yet.? When I bought my 2200 several years
ago I had strongly considered that path, but had procrastinated 'dealing with'
monotones by using duotones which helped a bit (not really--they just visually
diverted you a bit with toning).? I've subscriebed to the Digital b/w print
maillist off and on for a good while, and when I resubbed in late Winter I
discovered that there was a reasonably priced RIP available for Windows.? I
demoed it for several weeks and was sold on it.
?
So--that's my story LOL.? QTR prints
aren't subject to metamerism--my reason for printing with it.? I do all my
postprocessing in PS first, then bring a finished file to QTR, select my blend
for the paper I'm using and get excellent prints.? In the past I was using
Epson Velvet primarily for my matte prints, some Hahnemuhle Photorag.? I've
just done a series of step wedges on 11 different papers and have a good
reference point for other papers also.? I use Epson Premium Semigloss for
my non-matte prints.
?
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The Advantages of QTR Are?
Steve
I'm a new member of the QTR community and fairly new to digital
b & w photography. I wanted to know what advantages are offered by this system versus others including Photoshop. I use an Epson 2200 printer and mostly print on Enhanced Matte and Premium Luster papers. I've also started using Ilford Smooth Pearl paper. Are there distinct advantages of using the QTR? I'd like to hear your opinions. Thanks! Steve |
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Re: Dumb questions
Diane Fields
开云体育I'll let someone else explain the technical
aspects of a curve and an ICC profile, but for one thing--you cannot use a curve
in place of a profile.? An ICC profile is, for instance, the color space of
your monitor, the working space you use in PS, the paper profiles you choose for
printing (and then make sure your printer chooses 'no color adjustment').?
The curves are what QTR 'tells' the printer as to how to use what colors (what
nozzles to use).? There will be someone that can tell you much better
technically the differences--hopefully.?
?
If you using a PC, you will want to convert
your RGB image to Gray-LAB (which is an ICC profile--and should be in your
dropdown in PS).? Do any tweaking here (I won't go into softproofing here),
save this as a 'master' file in tiff.? Then--convert this file to
Gray-matte or Gray-photo (both ICC profiles--you will find these 3 in a zip on
the QTR download page--the RGB profiles are for use in Qimage)?depending
upon the paper you choose to use for printing.? Having the master in
gray-LAB allows you to go back and print easily on a matte or semigloss/gloss
paper.? You will choose the gray-matte or gray-photo tiff to use in
QTR.
?
Hope this helps.
?
Diane
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Re: QuadTone RIP tutorial or FAQ
Diane Fields
开云体育1.? Ah--thanks.? I never had a
darkroom though I would have loved to in my film days--all I could think of with
a 'roundabout'was the auto 'roundabouts'--which I first encountered years ago in
Canada but we have some in NC now also..
2.--well, hadn't thought of LOL as 'lots of
luck' (sardonically) but I can see that--the way one would say it--exactly as
you suggest *smile*
3. The softproofing is working well for
me.? Lou's post helped a lot in what Roy had in mind.? I learned that
you could, prior to this, use 2 ICC profiles and an action that Carl had made to
'sort of ' proof blends--and in fact I still have that thanks to Carl, but for
tonality/contrast using Roy's LAB profile works pretty well for me with the
softproof/ink black.? Still--one has to 'envision' the curve (blends, if
you choose)?with it.? I did 12 papers with 21 step wedges in series
yesterday and today--and hopefully that will give me a good guide as to choices
of blending the curves with certain papers.
?
Diane
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QuadTone RIP tutorial or FAQ
Diane, 1. Printing a "roundabout" is not a British practice but a technique used in printing color photos to assess color balance. I don't think anybody does that anymore with all the new technology.
2. LOL can also mean "Lots of Luck" in the sardonic sense. IMHO 3. I'll second your suggestion on a tutorial on "softproofing". I'm still not comfortable with that procedure. Ian From: "Diane Fields" <picnic@...> [Add to Address Book] [View Source] To: <QuadtoneRIP@...> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] tutorial or FAQ Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:27:18 +0000 As I sit here and print step wedges on a variety of papers with my 2200/QTR, I've been thinking about the numerous posts on the Digital B/W list (where most people still seem to end up with questions about QTR) about 'how' to use QTR. In truth, the install and use on WinXP is pretty straightforward. I think what bumfuzzles a lot of people is the 'how' to actually use it. I believe many have curves and ICC profiles confused, and if they don't, they seem not to know where to begin to use the installed curves. It would be helpful if one of the more experienced users of QTR write a tutorial (one for Mac and Windows both would be helpful). I think what throws many is what curves to use---if you aren't using one of the papers listed (and now I'm not sure what installs with QTR and what I added with the Carl Schofield download--if you don't have it, try this ) you aren't sure what curve to use for what. Someone also suggested printing 'roundabouts' of step wedges--I'm guessing maybe this was a UK person since I've not heard that term before for this use but took it as printing a series of step wedges on the same paper with curves/blends. I started with 100% warm at the top, then I printed a 75 warm/25 cool , etc. until I reached 100% cool (I did six--a 100 warm, 75/25, 50/50, 40/60, 25/75, 100 cool). I've printed 10 matte papers thus far (I have accumulated a number of sample packs) and have some more to do. I will then do the same for my EPremsemi as well as a sepia/cool series. This certainly helps you to determine what blends work best for you on what paper. The other helpful thing would be for someone to write a straightforward tute for softproofing in PS for Windows. I have a nicely written post I found (by Lou Dina I think) that is quite good and with his okay could post it. I'm not sure everyone 'gets' how to softrproof using Roy's ICC profiles. Diane |
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QTR EEnh matte cool Se curve
Diane Fields
开云体育Could anyone tell me just what this curve
is---is it a blend of Sepia and cool for EEnhMatte?? I saw a post not long
ago about the use of this curve--with perhaps a warm curve???? Can't
remember the context of the post--and am not sure
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tutorial or FAQ
Diane Fields
开云体育As I sit here and print step wedges on a
variety of papers with my 2200/QTR, I've been thinking about the numerous posts
on the Digital B/W list (where most people still seem to end up with questions
about QTR) about 'how' to use QTR.? In truth, the install and use on WinXP
is pretty straightforward.? I think what bumfuzzles a lot of people is the
'how' to actually use it.? I believe many have curves and ICC profiles
confused, and if they don't, they seem not to know where to begin to use the
installed curves.?? It would be helpful if one of the more experienced
users of QTR write a tutorial (one for Mac and Windows both would be
helpful).? I think what throws many is what curves to use---if you aren't
using one of the papers listed (and now I'm not sure what installs with QTR and
what I added with the Carl Schofield download--if you don't have it, try
this
? ) you aren't sure what curve to use for
what.
?
Someone also suggested printing 'roundabouts'
of step wedges--I'm guessing maybe this was a UK person since I've not heard
that term before for this use?but took it as printing a series of step
wedges on the same paper with curves/blends.? I started with 100%
warm? at the top, then I printed a 75 warm/25 cool , etc. until I reached
100% cool (I did six--a 100 warm, 75/25, 50/50, 40/60, 25/75, 100 cool).?
I've printed 10 matte papers thus far (I have accumulated a number of sample
packs) and have some more to do.? I will then do the same for my
EPremsemi? as well as a sepia/cool series.? This certainly helps you
to determine what blends work best for you on what paper.
?
The other helpful thing would be for someone
to write a straightforward tute for softproofing in PS for? Windows.?
I have a nicely written post I found (by Lou Dina I think) that is quite good
and with his okay could post it.? I'm not sure everyone 'gets' how to
softrproof using Roy's ICC profiles.
?
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Re: QTR 'alternate' curves
Diane Fields
Shorthand for 'laughing out loud', but basically is a way to add some 'body language' (IMO) to posts that could be read in many ways. For those of us that have been around on the net for years and years, one forgets that not everyone knows all the acronyms, etc.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Glad you are 'getting it'. I'm in the middle of writing a post about the possibility of someone writing some tutorials or a FAQ for this forum. I think that many are just not sure where to begin--and esp. which curves to use for what---and how. I've printed 10 papers with series of step wedges and that certainly is helping me nail down which papers I'll use for what images. In the past I've been using Epson Velvet or Hahnemuhle PHotorag for b/w for the most part (at least as my matte paper) and they are still high on my list (though both have OBA--optical brighteners--and this seems to be something others on the Digital B/W list stay away from) but I'm really liking 2 of the new Innova papers. Diane ----------- Diane B. Fields picnic@... photo site ----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Pierno To: QuadtoneRIP@... Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR 'alternate' curves Diane: I think I finally got it...boy am I slow..I'll let you know how I'm doing...by the way what does LOL mean?...best, Ann -------Original Message------- Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Re: QTR 'alternate' curves
开云体育
-------Original Message-------
?
From: Diane Fields
Date: 04/02/05 11:19:32
To: QuadtoneRIP@...
Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR 'alternate' curves ?
Someone suggested starting with the HPR cool/warm curves for 2200 and increase the ink limit.
?
I'm printing a series of step wedges on each paper from 100% warm to 100% cool--I'll try using?the HPR curve?and increasing the ink limit.? I'm wondering about some of the other papers--for instance, William Turner.? Do most people start with either the EEnh or HPR curves warm/cool?for printing a series of wedges???Someone else suggested that it would be really helpful if there was a folder on the forums or?downloadable curves or?suggestions of available curves for use with 'alternate' papers.
? ----- Original Message -----
From: Diane Fields
To: QuadtoneRIP@...
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:17 AM
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR 'alternate' curves
I haven't yet tried creating any curves for papers I have--mainly because I'm sampling and trying to make a decision on what paper(s) I will use with QTR.? I've done this before with papers for color images both on 1280 and 2200, but printing 21 step wedges on papers with QTR for sampling without specific curves for some papers has presented me with a question.
?
Carl Schofield on Digital B/W list just mentioned the use of some of the available curves for 'alternate' papers, but I wonder about others.
?
For instance,? I received the Innova sample pack and would love to know what others have used for the Photo FB, Soft Textured Art and Photo Smooth White Cotton.? I also printed sepia/cool on William Turner, but wonder about what curve others would use (bar using a custom).? There are some others--which I try to do a search on in forum, but we all know the problems with that.? I also try to find specs on the papers listed that I'm unfamiliar with and see if they are anywhere close to the paper I'm working with.
?
BTW--someone suggested that Concord Rag was lovely for sepia--I concur.? I found one piece left and did step wedges.? Not sure I would use this paper, but it is very nice for that purpose.
?
? |
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Re: QTR 'alternate' curves
Diane Fields
开云体育Someone suggested starting with the HPR
cool/warm curves for 2200 and increase the ink limit.
?
I'm printing a series of step wedges on each
paper from 100% warm to 100% cool--I'll try using?the HPR curve?and
increasing the ink limit.? I'm wondering about some of the other
papers--for instance, William Turner.? Do most people start with either the
EEnh or HPR curves warm/cool?for printing a series of
wedges???Someone else suggested that it would be really helpful if
there was a folder on the forums or?downloadable curves or?suggestions
of available curves for use with 'alternate' papers.
?
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QTR 'alternate' curves
Diane Fields
开云体育I haven't yet tried creating any curves for
papers I have--mainly because I'm sampling and trying to make a decision on what
paper(s) I will use with QTR.? I've done this before with papers for color
images both on 1280 and 2200, but printing 21 step wedges on papers with QTR for
sampling without specific curves for some papers has presented me with a
question.
?
Carl Schofield on Digital B/W list just
mentioned the use of some of the available curves for 'alternate' papers, but I
wonder about others.
?
For instance,? I received the Innova
sample pack and would love to know what others have used for the Photo FB, Soft
Textured Art and Photo Smooth White Cotton.? I also printed sepia/cool on
William Turner, but wonder about what curve others would use (bar using a
custom).? There are some others--which I try to do a search on in forum,
but we all know the problems with that.? I also try to find specs on the
papers listed that I'm unfamiliar with and see if they are anywhere close to the
paper I'm working with.
?
BTW--someone suggested that Concord Rag was
lovely for sepia--I concur.? I found one piece left and did step
wedges.? Not sure I would use this paper, but it is very nice for that
purpose.
?
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