Hi Calvin,



--- In PacNW928@..., mmayn43508@a... wrote:

I have heard that at high revs the some of the journals get starved

for oil

and that may be what happened, it is corrected by buying a

redrilled

crankshaft,

I have heard this too, from Mark A (928 Intl) He describes it in his
latest catalog. I didn't think Lloyd got the revs quite that high,
but after what Adam posted about being at 6500 rpm , it could be!!.

I am curious as to why everyone wants to quarter mile
these

cars.....they really are not setup for this, doesn' t anybody worry

about the

half shafts on the rearend?
Calvin
90 928 S4

I look at it as a way to get together with other 928 owners and what
better way than at a "performance" event. True the 928 is not
exactly
the best 1/4 miler, but the numbers they can put out are very
respectable and all these events give me data on the performance of
my
car vs other cars as well as other comparable 928s. Something to
gauge my car with in my quest for perfect state of tune.

If I was worried about things breaking on my car then it probably
wouldn't see the light of day outside my garage. These cars are
meant
to be driven (case in point, let mine sit for one week, and the
battery dies) and like anyone who has met me can testify to - if it
breaks then its just an opportunity to replace it (hopefully with
something better). ;-)


Later,

Tom

Adam: I wan't trying to pass judgement, I just think that it is hard on a car
that isnt made for groung pounding, like 12 bolt rear ends or 9 inch fords
and big and small blocks etc. Now i can see a road course with a 5 speed, I
drive mine everyday and over to the tricities once a month, and i really
enjoy driving the car, great car for the money, I wish I had a 5 speed....but
shifting all day would wear me and the clutch out, I would like to see a 4:11
rear end in one of these, I think the 2:02 is to high, but thats what it was
made for. I might come and watch it has been awhile since i was at the track
Does it effect these cars much running them real hard? do you break much? Do
you know who has the black GTS in seattle? Saw it at innerbay.
calvin

开云体育

It was better than that;? they were not using the bus stop or the chicane on the front straight.? You come sweeping out of turn 8 power through turn 9 onto the front straight and then just go full throttle until you reach the braking zone for turn 1.

Lloyd

I agree that they need to be driven, like anything they fall apart
sitting...I would be scarred to death to unload the clutch at high revs all
day. I had two alcy dragsters they ran 6.25 et at 230 and we burned up parts
like crazy going faster and faster. 1/4 mile shit in these cars..... boy
expensive stuff to replace. then there is the 2.02 rearend is really hard to
load up!!! Can thess be changed to a 3 something?
Calvin

Hi Lloyd,

Now that would be a sight (and sound) to hear you coming out of the
chicane full throttle!!!!!

--- In PacNW928@..., "Lloyd Johnson" <lloydj@e...> wrote:

I went out to SIR today to get some seat time with ProFormance.

If you ever get the chance you should do this. They run the front

straight wide open (yes, toto, you can hit turn one doing in excess
of
120 MPH). There were more passing and let by zones. And smaller run
groups with more track time.

That was the good news and what I found out in the first session

and
last session of the day. I was coming out of turn 5a going into 5b
when then engine developed rod knock and I shut it down. If you use
AAA don't call them to tow from the track. Saturday, when Leif gets
back into town I'll find out what the damage is. The only way I can
think to make this better is when the motor is opened up turn it into
a 6 liter ....

Dang this hurts, I had another track day scheduled with the Porsche

club on saturday.


Bummer about the rod knock let us know what comes of it. Don't
forget, Mark A is running a 6.5 liter. You know once its open you
might as well.. Funny how easy it is to spend other peoples money ;-)

A couple of other thoughts, There is that guy in St Louis (cant
remember the name or web page --search the rennlist) He has complete
rebuilt GT motor with ported and polished heads for $4500. And if
you're really adventurous check out Sterling Gees page, he has lots
of ways to spend money!!!.

Anyway , hope it turns out OK.


Later,

Tom

Hi Adam,

Thanks, the FPR is on back order for the moment (probably not ready
for drag day) but will take you up on your offer once it comes in.


I will probably spring for the A/F meter (with injector duration)
sometime down the road too. Need something to put in place of the
ashtray anyway. ;-)



Later,


Tom
--- In PacNW928@..., "Adam Birnbaum" <adamb777@w...> wrote:

Louie wrote:

Hi Tom,
Yes It needs to be set/optimized. You will need a fuel pressure

gauge to

set

it to the correct (stock) pressure to start with.

Hey Tom,

I've got a fuel pressure gauge somewhere if you need to borrow it.

I

bought a while ago trouble shooting a fuel system failure in a GMC

Jimmy I

had a while back. It's one those that comes with a million different
connectors and has like a three inch face.

Let me know if your interested.

-Adam

Louie wrote:

Hi Tom,
Yes It needs to be set/optimized. You will need a fuel pressure gauge to

set

it to the correct (stock) pressure to start with.

Hey Tom,

I've got a fuel pressure gauge somewhere if you need to borrow it. I
bought a while ago trouble shooting a fuel system failure in a GMC Jimmy I
had a while back. It's one those that comes with a million different
connectors and has like a three inch face.

Let me know if your interested.

-Adam

I have heard that at high revs the some of the journals get starved for oil
and that may be what happened, it is corrected by buying a redrilled
crankshaft, I am curious as to why everyone wants to quarter mile these
cars.....they really are not setup for this, doesn' t anybody worry about the
half shafts on the rearend?
Calvin
90 928 S4

Lloyd wrote:

I went out to SIR today to get some seat time with ProFormance.

If you ever get the chance you should do this. They run the front

straight wide >open (yes, toto, you can hit turn one doing in excess of 120
MPH).

Talk about some serious G's, I don't know if I'd have the kahuna's to stick
turn one, I could see myself flying into the tire wall at turn two.

That was the good news and what I found out in the first session and last

session >of the day. I was coming out of turn 5a going into 5b when then
engine developed >rod knock and I shut it down.

Any ideas as to what caused this, higher shift points maybe? At the last
DE, I happen to look at my shift point on the short straight between turn 2
and 3A. I was shifting to "3" at 6500 rpm (!) It's such a short straight I
didn't even bother to watch my gauges, I was too focused on setting up for
the turn. That could have been my stroker kit right there, I didn't pick
pick up on it until the second session.

If you use AAA don't call them to tow from the track.

Do they ding ya?

Saturday, when Leif gets back into town I'll find out what the damage is.

The only >way I can think to make this better is when the motor is opened
up turn it into a 6 >liter ....

Oh yeah! The "Tom Middleton Postulate"

or

Dang this hurts, I had another track day scheduled with the Porsche club

on >saturday.

I'll be there Lloyd, although I think its on Sunday. If you're not out
pricing stroker kits, why don't you drop by. I'd like to chat about the
ProFormance day and what's up with your GT. Who knows, after the Shark
Drags we may have to do a group buy on those stroker things. :)

-Adam - "We can rebuild it, make it stronger, faster........"

开云体育

In a message dated 6/1/00 2:59:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
midlman@... writes:

I have an adjustable FPR on order and it needs to be
adjusted/optimized after installation. Is there another way to do
this (without A/F meter) or is this a necessity. I assume the car
will run OK after installing the FPR??? You have the adjustable FPR
on you GT right?? Did you optimize it yet?

I wonder if there is a place where this can be rented?? Maybe the
dyno
shops.???

Hi Tom,
Yes It needs to be set/optimized. You will need a fuel pressure gauge to set
it to the correct (stock) pressure to start with. The instructions that come
with the FPR say to never adjust it without having a gauge connected so you
can see what the pressure is while adjusting. You won't need to adjust it
very far off of the stock setting so it is mostly a fine tuning of the
pressure. With my adjustable FPR, I did the best I could by using a mixture
meter, the JC Whitney one that recently broke. After I put on the Dastek
Piggy back computer, I set the A/F ratio (for max power) with that so I set
the adjustable FPR back to the stock setting and left it.

How to do the optimization? I think the best way would be on a dyno since max
power is the result you are after in the end anyway. An A/F gauge is the next
best way and you would set the mixture for about half way between center and
full rich. From what I have seen, the stock setting errors on the rich side
of max power. Expect that you will need to reduce pressure to lean it a
little from stock. There are formulas which will give you the percentage
change in fuel flow vs pressure change. I can try to dig out the formulas if
you want. The way you would set it on the dyno would be to start at the stock
setting and make about 3 runs to get an average. Then richen the mixture
about 2 or 3 percent using the formula to figure what that pressure change
would be. Make 3 more runs and see what the result is. If power goes down,
then you know you were too rich to start with so then reduce fuel flow by a
couple percent from the stock pressure and try again. You keep doing this
until you can't get any more gain. It's like changing jets on a carb and
checking power. It takes some analysis of the dyno runs and jotting down the
effects of each pressure change so it will be easier and you will use less
dyno time if you have a helper. You always start by going rich so if it
happened to be lean you won't go even leaner and maybe damage something. If
you have made some mods like a different exhaust, don't expect that you will
find a pressure setting that will give the max power throughout the rpm
range. It will be a compromise, and if you have to leave it too rich at some
rpms to get max power at some other rpm, leave it rich at the top end.

When setting the mixture with the Dastek piggy back computer, I had to make
the mixture richer at the bottom, leave it alone in the middle, and lean it
at the top to get best power across the whole range.

I recently put my car back to stock exhaust and stock chip to take baseline
stock hp/tq readings. I was on the dyno Wednesday and noted on my mixture
meter that it was pretty rich all across the rpm range. I had the FPR set for
stock pressure, and I may have picked up a few hp by reducing pressure.

I have my mix meter and fuel pressure gauge permanently mounted in the car or
you could borrow them. Maybe someone else has a set you could use. I'll have
a look at my old mixture meter. Maybe the reason it quit wasn't too drastic
and you could use that one.

Louie

Thanks Louie,

I have an adjustable FPR on order and it needs to be
adjusted/optimized after installation. Is there another way to do
this (without A/F meter) or is this a necessity. I assume the car
will run OK after installing the FPR??? You have the adjustable FPR
on you GT right?? Did you optimize it yet?

I wonder if there is a place where this can be rented?? Maybe the
dyno
shops.???


Thanks for the help,

Later,

Tom

Hi Tom,
Yes, there is a way. The easiest is to order the A/F meter from

Dave
Roberts.

It costs about $100 and is a quality unit. It had good installation
instructions. I bought one from him when my $40 unit from J.C.

Whitney

snip snip

Louie

Hi everyone,

I would like to know if anyone knows how to get readings from the O2
sensor. I know Louie had something rigged up at the dyno day, I
have
a digital multi-meter, is there a way to hook it up and what kind
of
readings can I expect to see (ie rich vs lean vs rpm)??

On the topic of the prize for the Drag "winner", if the "Stone
Guards"
don't work out, how about a copy of the Need for Speed Porsche
Edition?

Thanks in advance,

Tom
midlman@... 87S4 (tweaking away ;-)))

In a message dated 6/1/00 1:42:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
midlman@... writes:

I would like to know if anyone knows how to get readings from the O2
sensor. I know Louie had something rigged up at the dyno day, I
have
a digital multi-meter, is there a way to hook it up and what kind
of
readings can I expect to see (ie rich vs lean vs rpm)??

Hi Tom,
Yes, there is a way. The easiest is to order the A/F meter from Dave Roberts.
It costs about $100 and is a quality unit. It had good installation
instructions. I bought one from him when my $40 unit from J.C. Whitney
failed. You may also want to look at . Click on the
Air-Fuel Monitor menu selection on the left side of the screen. They have
something very similar to what DR has for the same price and they also have a
combination A/F ratio meter and injection pulse duty cycle meter, also for
the same price. I wish I had gotten that one instead since I want to know how
long the injectors are open as well as the A/F fuel ratio.

You will go nuts trying to get a meaningful reading from your O2 sensor with
a digital meter. The reading fluctuates rapidly as the computer is constantly
adjusting mixture based on the O2 output. At idle, mine changes from full
lean to full rich about once per second. At cruise, it stays near the center
and changes at maybe 4 or 5 times a second. At WOT the O2 sensor is out of
the loop for controlling the mixture and the reading is much more stable with
little fluctuation. You could get some indication with a very high impedance,

10 meg ohm, analog meter since that would tend to average the signal. The

bar graph type meter works ok as long as it is high impedance. A simple
analog VOM would load the O2 sensor too much. You connect to the black O2
wire and ground. If you have a heated sensor, the white wires are the heater
wires.

The O2 sensor output is between zero and about 1 volt with A/F ratio of 14.7
ocurring at approximately 0.45V. Best power A/F of around 13 would show about
.85V. These are not absolute numbers because the O2 voltage and A/F ratio is
non linear and varies with the O2 sensor, it's age, temperature, phase of the
moon, color of your socks, and other stuff. They are more accurate in a
narrow range around the center, and get worse with age near the ends of the
range. You can get more accurate, calibrated O2 sensors though if you desire.
EFI Systems has them and the price is no worse than the standard Bosch.

Let me know if I can help/confuse more.

Louie

On my last post I stated how I munged up two of the valve cover bolts on
reinstall. I talked it over with Wally Plumley at 928 SP, who was quite
suprised (like myself) as to what happened. He was concerned that because
the bolts are steel and the heads are aluminum, that the head threads might
be damaged. He said to go ahead and chase the threads with a tap and use
lots of oil.

I did this, and the tap followed the threads fine. In flashing a light onto
the valve cover bolt hole, I notice some interesting things.

1) The hole does not go through the head, so I wouldn't have to worry about
shavings dropping into the motor anywhere.

2) The hole has an insert! Thank god for small miracles. I'm thinking that
the bolt must be made of milder steel than the insert, which would explain
why the bolt threads chewed up, and (hopefully) not the head threads. The
tap chased the threads easily, and there was no (visible) metal fragments
from using the tap.

I ordered new bolts from 928 Int'l, which I should have by thursday. Got a
DE this weekend that I don't want to miss.

As far as the stock retaining clips, Wally suggested drilling them out,
which I will be doing tonight.

Hopefully I should be all back together thursday night, new coils and all.

I'll post the results!

-Adam Birnbaum
'88 S4 A/T

Adam

Nasty, no all my studs went back in without any issue and I used the same
procedure you did so nothing wrong there. I think I would be tempted to take
the valve covers off and check for debris too.

I feel for you, the simplest tasks .....

You can use the clip on the valve cover nearest the front of the engine to
get one wire on but as you suggest there are a number of redundant clips.

Keep us informed.

Chris

I installed my Nology wires, which was simple enough. I did have something
strange happen, twice as a matter of fact, and would like some input. (Chris
are you reading this?)

First off, the upgraded ground eyelets are the perfect size to ground at the
nearest valve cover bolt. The valve cover bolt goes through a rubber
grommett, which has a cup washer on it for the head of the bolt to torque
against. I looped the ground wires for Nologies in such a manner that they
were sandwiched between the bolt head and the cup washer. I grounded two
wires to a single valve cover bolt. I screwed down the first valve cover
bolt using just a hex key. The bolt turned somewhat freely, and I assumed
that the extra space that the ground eyelets were taking up in the bolt
shaft were not allowing the valve cover bolt to go deeply enough into the
threaded hole. I pushed down as I turned the hex key but still no bite. I
pulled the bolt out and it threads were chewed up. I'm somewhat suprised at
this. I don't know if I should be relieved in that by deduction if the bolt
took the punishment the head threads should still be okay. Never having
been one to know when to leave well enough alone, I proceeded with EXTREME
caution and tried to bolt down the second set of ground wires, no problem.
No problem with the third set either. On the fourth, the bolt cross
threaded again. I should note that when the bolts cross threaded, I
couldn't feel any resistance, or anything indicating that the bolt was not
entering the hole correctly.

I'm going to order new valve cover bolts from 928 Int'l tomorrow, and email
DR about my experience and see if he has any input.

Questions:
1) I would like to run a tap to clean up the threads for the new bolts,
sound like a bad idea?

2) For those that have done the install already, did you use the stock wire
clips? It appears that the clips that bolt to the valve covers would
definitely not be usable as this is where the thick part of the Nology wires
rest. The portion of the plug wires that criss cross the front of the
engine look like they may take the clips, but it seems that the clips would
really be crimping down on the wires.

Thanks for any input,

-Adam

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:26:51 -0700
From: "Jim & Tina" <nebraska@...>
Subject: Re: Re; Coil discussions

that they seem to be getting popular. The whole chrysler line uses the
Ecoil in the distributor cap don't they?

Oh;insulted again!!
that would be old Chevies with the coil in cap thingy
Current Chrysler way is coils mounted atop each sparkplug
cool huh?

Well that shows how much attention I pay to America autos. I do remember
seeing the coil in the plug cap somewhere and it is a cool idea, elimiating
the distributer is a "giant step for mankind" as it were. Supras (I am
familiar with) had 3 coils firing 2 plugs each to eliminate the distributer,
very nice.

Louis's caution is worth considering, that is why I was wondering if anyone
had info on the new coil types. I think I will post the same question to
rennlist just to get more opinions, appologies to any that have heard enough
about the subject already. Actually I appreciated the discussion, pretty
heavy topic for our local list.

RSS

Yeah,

I finally figured out what was wrong with my heaters temp control.
Just in time for summer mind you. I just wanted to take this time to
let everyone know that I will be out of town for a week, so if you
email me, its not that Im ignoring you, I just dont have my computer
with me. I might take along my lap top but probably not. I am looking
forward to the drags and seeing everyone again. I think it will be a
lot of fun. Its good for me to know that everyone at the dyno day
will be spotting me time if we go up against each other. Me having
the oldest, slowest shark there. Oh well, at least I will look good
losing.

Take care
Rob Fossett

Guys, be prepared ...if you order the Titanium rods (Oliver, from England, I
think) Over $3K, and they still are not here after being ordered at the end of
Feb.
Don(don' need no steenkin' stroker to exceed tech speed) Hanson

ADAM BIRNBAUM wrote: