开云体育

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 Groups.io
  1. NAION
  2. Messages
Expanded Topics Messages
Date
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

 

I’m very confused with this idea. ?My NO specifically said to stop taking BP meds at night as blood pressure is naturally lower at night. ?The before bedtime pill could lead to below normal BP and lead to an ischemic attack. My cardiologist agreed. ?I now take both an ace inhibitor and a beta blocker in the morning.?
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

 

Hi Cliff, My first event occurred 20 years ago - I was 41. Second event was this past February. I’ve always seen my NO and at times taken eye drops to keep the pressure very low. Always been told just to protect my left eye (20/20 vision in that eye) and that it would be very rare for it to occur again. I’m not diabetic, don’t have high blood pressure, don’t have sleep apnea. My doc says it is my anatomy.

On May 11, 2025, at 8:55?AM, Bestray Pty Ltd via groups.io <bestray@...> wrote:

?Hi Pamela,

How long apart between the two attacks?
What did you do to prevent the second attack? Sleep apnea with CPAP?

Cliff
Re: Hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) & NAION: Google A.I. search

 

Yes but it seems it helped our fellow NAION victim. If you can pay for it what’s wrong with trying it Russ? As long as we continue to shoot down possible therapies we will get no where and we will remove hope. We all understand hope is slim for us during our lifetimes but many of us are willing to try if there is only a glimmer of hope. By any chance are you the moderator of the Facebook NAION page??
Hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) & NAION: Google A.I. search

Russ Poter
 

Hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) has not been proven to be a beneficial treatment for non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION), a condition causing vision loss. While HBOT can increase tissue oxygenation, it has not shown significant improvements in visual acuity or visual field in NAION patients. Some studies suggest potential benefits in certain cases, but more research is needed, and there is no widespread consensus on its efficacy for NAION. [, , , , , , ]

Elaboration: [, , , ]
  • NAION: NAION is a common cause of sudden vision loss in people over 50, affecting the optic nerve. [, , , ]
  • Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): HBOT involves breathing 100% oxygen under increased pressure, aiming to deliver more oxygen to tissues, including the optic nerve. [, , , ]
  • Research Findings: Several studies have investigated HBOT for NAION, but the results are mixed. Some studies show no significant benefit in visual acuity or visual field, while others suggest potential benefits, especially in cases where treatment is started early. [, , , , , , , ]
  • Mechanism of Action: HBOT may work by increasing tissue oxygenation, which can reduce damage to the optic nerve due to ischemia (reduced blood flow). [, , , ]
  • Current Recommendations: There is no widely accepted recommendation for using HBOT as a primary or adjunctive treatment for NAION, and it is not routinely used. [, , , , , ]
  • Alternative Treatments: Other potential treatments for NAION include optimizing vascular risk factors, addressing underlying conditions, and in some cases, intravitreal injections of anti-vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) agents. [, , , , , , , , ]

AI responses may include mistakes.
[1]?
[2]?
[3]?
[4]?
[5]?
[6]?
[7]?
[8]?
[9]?
[10]?
[11]?
[12]?
[13]?
[14]?
[15]?
[16]?
[17]?
UPDATED: 2nd NAION attack -- Google A.I. search results

Russ Poter
 

A "second" NAION attack refers to a recurrence of NAION in the same eye, which is rare. A second attack in a different eye (bilateral NAION) is more common, with approximately 15% of individuals with NAION in one eye developing it in the other within 5 years. [, ]

Elaboration: [, ]
  • Recurrence in the same eye is rare: While a second attack of NAION in the same eye has been documented with the arteritic form (associated with giant cell arteritis), it is not typically seen with the non-arteritic form (NAION). [, , ]
  • Bilateral NAION is more common: A second attack in the other eye (bilateral NAION) is more frequent, with about 15% of people experiencing it within 5 years of the initial attack. [, , ]
  • Risk factors for bilateral NAION: Conditions like diabetes and obstructive sleep apnea can increase the risk of developing NAION in the second eye. Compliance with CPAP therapy in obstructive sleep apnea may help reduce the risk of a second attack, according to the North American Neuro-Ophthalmology Society. [, , ]
  • Visual prognosis: Once vision in the affected eye stabilizes (typically within 2 months), further deterioration is not expected. [, , , ]
  • Early diagnosis and management are crucial: If vision loss worsens or progresses beyond the expected timeframe, a re-evaluation should be conducted to rule out other causes. [, ]

AI responses may include mistakes.
[1]?
[2]?
[3]?
[4]?
[5]?
[6]?



On Sunday, May 11, 2025 at 11:21:36 AM EDT, JimLely via groups.io <gaussianmist@...> wrote:


I thought we were talking about the probability of 'other eye' involvement.? This AI report seems to be addressing recurrence in the same eye. (But if I'm misinterpreting, it's because I have NAION.)


On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 11:08?AM Russ Poter via <russpoter=[email protected]> wrote:
In most cases of NAION (Nonarteritic Anterior Ischemic Optic Neuropathy), a "second" attack, meaning a recurrence of the condition in the same eye, is rare. While vision worsens initially, it often stabilizes after two weeks. However, the visual field loss may become less noticeable over time, especially if the other eye is normal. [, , , , , , , ]

Here's a more detailed explanation: [, ]
  • Initial Vision Loss: In NAION, vision typically worsens progressively over about two weeks. [, ]
  • Progression and Stabilization: After the initial two-week period, the vision usually stabilizes, meaning it doesn't worsen further. [, ]
  • Recurrence: While a second attack in the same eye is not common, it's not impossible. [, , , , , , ]
  • Visual Field Loss: The area of visual field loss typically doesn't improve significantly over time. [, ]
  • Other Eye: If the other eye is normal, the visual field loss might become less noticeable over time, as the brain adapts, according to the North American Neuro-Ophthalmology Society. [, ]

AI responses may include mistakes.
[1]?
[2]?
[3]?
[4]?
[5]?
[6]?
[7]?
[8]?
Re: 2nd NAION attack -- Google A.I. search results

 

I thought we were talking about the probability of 'other eye' involvement.? This AI report seems to be addressing recurrence in the same eye. (But if I'm misinterpreting, it's because I have NAION.)


On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 11:08?AM Russ Poter via <russpoter=[email protected]> wrote:
In most cases of NAION (Nonarteritic Anterior Ischemic Optic Neuropathy), a "second" attack, meaning a recurrence of the condition in the same eye, is rare. While vision worsens initially, it often stabilizes after two weeks. However, the visual field loss may become less noticeable over time, especially if the other eye is normal. [, , , , , , , ]

Here's a more detailed explanation: [, ]
  • Initial Vision Loss: In NAION, vision typically worsens progressively over about two weeks. [, ]
  • Progression and Stabilization: After the initial two-week period, the vision usually stabilizes, meaning it doesn't worsen further. [, ]
  • Recurrence: While a second attack in the same eye is not common, it's not impossible. [, , , , , , ]
  • Visual Field Loss: The area of visual field loss typically doesn't improve significantly over time. [, ]
  • Other Eye: If the other eye is normal, the visual field loss might become less noticeable over time, as the brain adapts, according to the North American Neuro-Ophthalmology Society. [, ]

AI responses may include mistakes.
[1]?
[2]?
[3]?
[4]?
[5]?
[6]?
[7]?
[8]?
2nd NAION attack -- Google A.I. search results

Russ Poter
 

In most cases of NAION (Nonarteritic Anterior Ischemic Optic Neuropathy), a "second" attack, meaning a recurrence of the condition in the same eye, is rare. While vision worsens initially, it often stabilizes after two weeks. However, the visual field loss may become less noticeable over time, especially if the other eye is normal. [, , , , , , , ]

Here's a more detailed explanation: [, ]
  • Initial Vision Loss: In NAION, vision typically worsens progressively over about two weeks. [, ]
  • Progression and Stabilization: After the initial two-week period, the vision usually stabilizes, meaning it doesn't worsen further. [, ]
  • Recurrence: While a second attack in the same eye is not common, it's not impossible. [, , , , , , ]
  • Visual Field Loss: The area of visual field loss typically doesn't improve significantly over time. [, ]
  • Other Eye: If the other eye is normal, the visual field loss might become less noticeable over time, as the brain adapts, according to the North American Neuro-Ophthalmology Society. [, ]

AI responses may include mistakes.
[1]?
[2]?
[3]?
[4]?
[5]?
[6]?
[7]?
[8]?
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

 

开云体育

The idea is that low blood pressure contributes to attacks and drugs that lower your blood pressure act most when taken.? Your blood pressure drops anyway because of sleep and the drugs can add to that.? So taking them at night increases the risk.?

/11/2025 7:05 AM, Tim Trela via groups.io wrote:

Could you expand on the morning avoidance of heart related drugs (i.e., blood pressure management) in the morning?
I've not heard of that before.

On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 9:00?AM aheskin via <aheskin=[email protected]> wrote:

I have not, but over the years of this group there have been a few people who reported more events.? An NO said that is rare. less than 5%, because the attacks shrink the optic nerve and improve the disk ratio making another event very unlikely.? I am bilateral but I have not relaxed about protecting my vision.? I still do what I can to defend it like staying away as much as I can from anything the shrinks the blood vessels and taking any heart related drug in the morning.

On 5/11/2025 6:39 AM, Pamela Chadick via wrote:
I ?also have NAION in both eyes. After the first event, I was always told there was only a 15% chance of it recurring in the second eye. The second event has been tough, but I do still see well enough to drive in areas I’m familiar with. The question that has recently come to mine and I plan to ask at my next appointment is - has anyone had this happen a third time, worsening the damage in either eye?

On May 11, 2025, at 7:32?AM, Russ Poter via <russpoter@...> wrote:

?Ditto .. data via U of Iowa Medical?


On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Watson via
I recall reading in my early research that ?amongst all stricken once, chance of second eye being affected is 15% within 5 years. Can’t recall the source.

Andy W.

On May 10, 2025, at 16:33, Bestray Pty Ltd via <bestray@...> wrote:

?
Hi everyone?
?
By reading messages in this group, I have a feeling that second NAION is much more common than I expected.?
Is it a misperception? Or is it really quite common to have a second attack. I am very worried.
?
thanks
Cliff
?
?
NOTE: a history of NAION: Prof. S.S. Hayreh, MD, PhD, Univ of Iowa Medical .. R.I.P.

Russ Poter
 


"Much of Professor Hayreh’s research legacy has become so engrained in the modern practice of ophthalmology that many are not aware of the full extent of his work ..

"He was the first to distinguish between ischaemic and non-ischaemic central retinal vein occlusions, and to classify ischaemic optic neuropathies as anterior or posterior.?

"He identified nocturnal hypotension as a risk factor for both non-arteritic anterior ischaemic optic neuropathy and glaucoma.?

"He made significant contributions to the vasogenic theory of glaucoma, and his work on the pathogenesis of papilloedema led to the reintroduction of optic nerve sheath fenestration as a treatment for this condition."
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

 

Could you expand on the morning avoidance of heart related drugs (i.e., blood pressure management) in the morning?
I've not heard of that before.

On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 9:00?AM aheskin via <aheskin=[email protected]> wrote:

I have not, but over the years of this group there have been a few people who reported more events.? An NO said that is rare. less than 5%, because the attacks shrink the optic nerve and improve the disk ratio making another event very unlikely.? I am bilateral but I have not relaxed about protecting my vision.? I still do what I can to defend it like staying away as much as I can from anything the shrinks the blood vessels and taking any heart related drug in the morning.

On 5/11/2025 6:39 AM, Pamela Chadick via wrote:
I ?also have NAION in both eyes. After the first event, I was always told there was only a 15% chance of it recurring in the second eye. The second event has been tough, but I do still see well enough to drive in areas I’m familiar with. The question that has recently come to mine and I plan to ask at my next appointment is - has anyone had this happen a third time, worsening the damage in either eye?

On May 11, 2025, at 7:32?AM, Russ Poter via <russpoter@...> wrote:

?Ditto .. data via U of Iowa Medical?


On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Watson via
I recall reading in my early research that ?amongst all stricken once, chance of second eye being affected is 15% within 5 years. Can’t recall the source.

Andy W.

On May 10, 2025, at 16:33, Bestray Pty Ltd via <bestray@...> wrote:

?
Hi everyone?
?
By reading messages in this group, I have a feeling that second NAION is much more common than I expected.?
Is it a misperception? Or is it really quite common to have a second attack. I am very worried.
?
thanks
Cliff
?
?
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

 

开云体育

I have not, but over the years of this group there have been a few people who reported more events.? An NO said that is rare. less than 5%, because the attacks shrink the optic nerve and improve the disk ratio making another event very unlikely.? I am bilateral but I have not relaxed about protecting my vision.? I still do what I can to defend it like staying away as much as I can from anything the shrinks the blood vessels and taking any heart related drug in the morning.

On 5/11/2025 6:39 AM, Pamela Chadick via groups.io wrote:

I ?also have NAION in both eyes. After the first event, I was always told there was only a 15% chance of it recurring in the second eye. The second event has been tough, but I do still see well enough to drive in areas I’m familiar with. The question that has recently come to mine and I plan to ask at my next appointment is - has anyone had this happen a third time, worsening the damage in either eye?

On May 11, 2025, at 7:32?AM, Russ Poter via groups.io <russpoter@...> wrote:

?Ditto .. data via U of Iowa Medical?


On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Watson via groups.io
I recall reading in my early research that ?amongst all stricken once, chance of second eye being affected is 15% within 5 years. Can’t recall the source.

Andy W.

On May 10, 2025, at 16:33, Bestray Pty Ltd via groups.io <bestray@...> wrote:

?
Hi everyone?
?
By reading messages in this group, I have a feeling that second NAION is much more common than I expected.?
Is it a misperception? Or is it really quite common to have a second attack. I am very worried.
?
thanks
Cliff
?
?
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

 

Hi Pamela,

How long apart between the two attacks?
What did you do to prevent the second attack? Sleep apnea with CPAP?

Cliff
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

 

开云体育

I ?also have NAION in both eyes. After the first event, I was always told there was only a 15% chance of it recurring in the second eye. The second event has been tough, but I do still see well enough to drive in areas I’m familiar with. The question that has recently come to mine and I plan to ask at my next appointment is - has anyone had this happen a third time, worsening the damage in either eye?

On May 11, 2025, at 7:32?AM, Russ Poter via groups.io <russpoter@...> wrote:

?Ditto .. data via U of Iowa Medical?


On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Watson via groups.io
<aowats3@...> wrote:
I recall reading in my early research that ?amongst all stricken once, chance of second eye being affected is 15% within 5 years. Can’t recall the source.

Andy W.

On May 10, 2025, at 16:33, Bestray Pty Ltd via groups.io <bestray@...> wrote:

?
Hi everyone?
?
By reading messages in this group, I have a feeling that second NAION is much more common than I expected.?
Is it a misperception? Or is it really quite common to have a second attack. I am very worried.
?
thanks
Cliff
?
?
Re: How common is second NAION attack?

Russ Poter
 

Ditto .. data via U of Iowa Medical?


On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Watson via groups.io
<aowats3@...> wrote:
I recall reading in my early research that ?amongst all stricken once, chance of second eye being affected is 15% within 5 years. Can’t recall the source.

Andy W.

On May 10, 2025, at 16:33, Bestray Pty Ltd via groups.io <bestray@...> wrote:

?
Hi everyone?
?
By reading messages in this group, I have a feeling that second NAION is much more common than I expected.?
Is it a misperception? Or is it really quite common to have a second attack. I am very worried.
?
thanks
Cliff
?
?
Re: Questions re: Visit Summary of Instructions (Pages 1-9 & 10))

 

Been since June 2024 for me.?

Cheryl?

On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 7:35?AM Bestray Pty Ltd via <bestray=[email protected]> wrote:
How long have you been staying unilateral?





Re: Questions re: Visit Summary of Instructions (Pages 1-9 & 10))

 

How long have you been staying unilateral?
Re: Questions re: Visit Summary of Instructions (Pages 1-9 & 10))

 

开云体育

Yes for me; about 25% both eyes, though NAION so far in one eye only, but it’s about 90% impaired.

On May 10, 2025, at 19:11, Deane Williams via groups.io <pyroartist@...> wrote:

? To everyone:
When you write about your first or second NAION event please let us know if you have
?a low cup-to-disc ratio in that eye as that would be helpful in understanding why it may have happened.
Often, that is the number one cause, but not always.

Thank you.

Deane
(moderator)



On 5/10/2025 12:36 PM, Mstusick@... via groups.io wrote:
Cliff and Debra
I agree with Deborah sometimes we will never know what caused the second event. I had no conditions that any of the doctors could find that could even cause the first event ?and the second was five months later . ?all tests were negative ?and ?I was int ?pretty much perfect health.After my first event they all assured me that my chances of a second event was minimal. My newest NO felt very differently and said it is her experience that the chances of a second event is greater than 30 to 40% over a two to five year period. She noticed the swelling in the second eye before I even had any symptoms and for six weeks I was 2020 and then it got worse even with steroid treatment. Being bilateral is certainly life-changing. Try to go on with your life and enjoy every day.Not knowing what else I could have done has been difficult but overtime I am learning to adapt . My best to all of you ,
Mike
Re: Odds of 2nd attack: 20% w/in 5 years

 

Did your have sleep apnea in the two attacks?
Re: Odds of 2nd attack: 20% w/in 5 years

 

what do you mean? did you have a second attack?
Re: Odds of 2nd attack: 20% w/in 5 years

 

开云体育

Hi Mike
? ? ? ? ? Good to read your message. My events pretty much mirror yours. First eye at 57 years old 2nd event 18 months later again in very good health and given no specific reason. Like you say life changing. Could I ask which country your in ?

On 10 May 2025, at 21:13, Russ Poter via groups.io <russpoter@...> wrote:

?Asked many times, in last 8 years .. recall data was from Univ of Iowa Medical?

I thought I could take those odds .. I am on year 10

My $0.02 .. stress can be big factor in NAION. So .. reduce stress ..
61 - 80 of 2302