I forgot to mention, quite often these capsules are low impedance (about 10-20 ohms) because they are generally paired with transformer, so the output level is lower than a standard SM57, but since the spl inside a tom is very high, it results in a perfectly compatibe level with a standard mic pre.

On Jun 12, 2022, at 07:36, thet <parenthetical@...> wrote:

?

yes I'm also wondering which of my many existing condenser mics would make good drum mics with a pad added. Or that i can build from the spares I have on hand.

Those cheap 25mm OD brass electrets from aliX might be interesting if they can handle the SPL.

the issue with condensers is whether the membrane will actually bottom out against the backplate... I would think that is a risk inside a tom or especially a kick. A capacitative pad can't protect against that.

On 12/06/2022 12:45, Jules Ryckebusch wrote:

The other thing I started doing is using a capacitor to pad my TSB2555B mics. Neumann does it on their U87 and U87 ai mics they use a 560pF on one and a 270pF on the other. For High Hat and snare 220pF on the TSB2555B works great. Im building a front facing mic with this capsule next week and will try and stick it in a kick drum soon. WIll let you know how it comes out.?

The other thing I started doing is using a capacitor to pad my TSB2555B mics. Neumann does it on their U87 and U87 ai mics they use a 560pF on one and a 270pF on the other. For High Hat and snare 220pF on the TSB2555B works great. Im building a front facing mic with this capsule next week and will try and stick it in a kick drum soon. WIll let you know how it comes out.?

On Jun 12, 2022, at 6:29 AM, thet <parenthetical@...> wrote:

?You are of course quite right about the directivity pattern, proximity effect, pressure chamber and flat response issues, however the conclusions you draw from those facts don't match my experience.

I'm going for quite a dark and muted tom sound though so YMMV.

A bit of context:

I currently have a RE20 in the floor tom about 15cm below the head pointed up at the edge of the head - despite the pressure chamber effect it still matters where you point it and the location - the toms have top heads fitted only, obviously. It sounds good without EQ. Or at least it sounds close to what I want - you might not think it is good.

Of course I'm also getting the toms in the overheads (414BULS) so the individual mics are more to add body than to provide a balanced capture of the drum.

Certainly the response is not flat when the mic is in the tom, but the RE20 has remarkably flat response for a dynamic in free air, so I was thinking that a flat dynamic in the tom might work.

The RE20 also sounds good outside the tom, or on the kick with some EQ.

I have a SM7 on snare, top side near the edge, also without EQ.

I have a couple of cheapo chinese dynamics around, but from memory last time I tried them I wasn't impressed. It may be that the capsules sold now are different or better though.

The RE20 and even the SM7 are notable flatter response (in free air) than the audix mics and I markedly prefer them to the audix, which is why I was thinking of flattish response as a criteria.

On 12/06/2022 11:14, Jerry Lee Marcel wrote:
The most prominent feature of the RE20 is its directivity pattern (Variable D), which makes it less prone to proximity (bass boost) effect.

BUT. Putting a mic inside a tom completely defeats its directivity, since it's placed in a pressure chamber.

Many dynamic capsules tick the boxes. I have used cheap chinese dynamic elements, such as this
,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:211872d4-8c8c-46c5-a0f1-32bd6efcdd90,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238116%232002&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2210000006237636508%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21EUR%21%211.27%21%21%21%21%21%40211b5e1f16550287004364650e735d%2110000006237636508%21rec

with great success.
Tom mics definitely need EQ, particularly if put inside, so flat response is not a consideration.

I forgot to mention, quite often these capsules are low impedance (about 10-20 ohms) because they are generally paired with transformer, so the output level is lower than a standard SM57, but since the spl inside a tom is very high, it results in a perfectly compatibe level with a standard mic pre.

The most prominent feature of the RE20 is its directivity pattern (Variable D), which makes it less prone to proximity (bass boost) effect.

BUT. Putting a mic inside a tom completely defeats its directivity, since it's placed in a pressure chamber.

Many dynamic capsules tick the boxes. I have used cheap chinese dynamic elements, such as this
,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:211872d4-8c8c-46c5-a0f1-32bd6efcdd90,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238116%232002&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2210000006237636508%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21EUR%21%211.27%21%21%21%21%21%40211b5e1f16550287004364650e735d%2110000006237636508%21rec

with great success.
Tom mics definitely need EQ, particularly if put inside, so flat response is not a consideration.

Le 12/06/2022 à 11:00, thet a écrit?:

I'm thinking of making or modifying some mics to use for close micing drums in a studio situation.

They will often be inside the toms.

Criteria, reasonably flat response at least from 50hz to 10k, High SPL handling.

Could be dynamic or condenser.

Performance to aspire to would be EV RE-20.

The most prominent feature of the RE20 is its directivity pattern (Variable D), which makes it less prone to proximity (bass boost) effect.

BUT. Putting a mic inside a tom completely defeats its directivity, since it's placed in a pressure chamber.

Many dynamic capsules tick the boxes. I have used cheap chinese dynamic elements, such as this
,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:211872d4-8c8c-46c5-a0f1-32bd6efcdd90,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238116%232002&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2210000006237636508%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21EUR%21%211.27%21%21%21%21%21%40211b5e1f16550287004364650e735d%2110000006237636508%21rec

with great success.
Tom mics definitely need EQ, particularly if put inside, so flat response is not a consideration.

On Jun 10, 2022, at 13:27, a45porhora@... wrote:

?That sounds good Jules! I will wait for that comparison

Also thanks to Julian for the JLI-160A advice. I see is built-in FET so I can make a simple P48, right?

any advice about this particular capsule when doing the Simple P48??

Regards

On Jun 10, 2022, at 10:39, juliankaus via groups.io <juliankaus@...> wrote:

?

I’ve tried the?

JLI-160A11UC680

Is like an EM-200 but better, cheaper too, the sound is brighter and the bass more controlled.?

Cheers!?

On 10 Jun 2022, at 17:07, Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebusch@...> wrote:

?I like the EM-200 more than the 204. ?Check out the TSB2590. ?Is larger and sounds great. ?I’m not sure you will find a truly flat cardioid capsule.?

Best Regards,

Jules Ryckebusch?

On Jun 10, 2022, at 07:55, a45porhora@... wrote:

?Ok, that have sense. Thanks again !

What about an alternative to Primo EM200/204? I was trying to find some cardioid capsule with such a flat response(or better) but didn't find anything

Cheers

On 10 Jun 2022, at 17:07, Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebusch@...> wrote:

?I like the EM-200 more than the 204. ?Check out the TSB2590. ?Is larger and sounds great. ?I’m not sure you will find a truly flat cardioid capsule.?

Best Regards,

Jules Ryckebusch?

On Jun 10, 2022, at 07:55, a45porhora@... wrote:

?Ok, that have sense. Thanks again !

What about an alternative to Primo EM200/204? I was trying to find some cardioid capsule with such a flat response(or better) but didn't find anything

Cheers

On Jun 10, 2022, at 07:55, a45porhora@... wrote:

?Ok, that have sense. Thanks again !

What about an alternative to Primo EM200/204? I was trying to find some cardioid capsule with such a flat response(or better) but didn't find anything

Cheers

On Jun 10, 2022, at 07:10, ilya dontsov <ilya.dontsov@...> wrote:

?Dotted graph looks like a frequency response of the back side of the capsule.