Re: Capsule damage during soldering
I use Kester 44 (leaded), part #24-6337-0053 (63/37 alloy,
.050"). You want flux-core (aka resin- or rosin-core), not acid
core.
Re: soldering irons, I recently upgraded to an , off AliExpress (the
"Color" "T245 B 110V" has the smart cradle) with an additional
genuine tip from JBC (it takes C245 tips) and couldn't be happier.
It's a whole new world of soldering. :-) $140 shipped to the US.
-c
On 11/8/23 01:42, Joe Todd wrote:
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Show quoted text
Hi, original poster here.
Big thanks to Jan, Jack and others for addressing my capsule
heat-damage concerns. I can approach my "sky-mic" project with
greater confidence.
Remaining questions:?
Solder: By "leaded", is it meant "low-temperature"? Different
lead percentages? Best solder wire gauge? Resin-core? Acid-core?
Solid? Brand/Model recommebdations?
Capsule pads/solder joints: Do most or all capsules espoused
on MicBuilders come with pretinned pads? Will Jan's "scratch off
the oxide" preliminary step resolve a mentioned incompatibility
with low-temperature (leaded?) solder? Or is it just that tip
temperature must be high enough to also soften the pretinning?
Thanks again!
-John T
?sky-facing bird-call mic projecteer
Something to secure your capsule
while soldering certainly helps. For small parts, I often
use self-closing tweezers. But that may not work too well
for round capsules. But maybe it works when grabbing the
capsule between front and back side?
Leaded solder should als work, provide you also reduce tip
temperature at the same time. Say, between 320 an 350C
max. And you'll want a good, temperature controlled
soldering station. Professionally and for hobby use, I use
JBC. By a miles distance the best you can get. You don't
believe it until you have worked with it and have compared
it side by side with eg Weller or Pace. Yes, they are
expensive. But you can buy a JBC clone, eg the GVM T245 on
Aliexpress and use with genuine JBC tips. Aliexpress tips
often break down quickly and do not solder as well as
genuine JBC.
Last tip: scratch off the oxide layer from the solder
joints on the capsule before soldering. The thin oxide
layer acts as a heat barrier.
Good luck!
Jan
L
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Re: Steminc vs "Alice" Piezoelements
If you're in the UK I've got some boards based on the ones Jules did that. Just need to sort out the slider plate and build some up. Welcome to have one at cost for test, if you fancy. They should be less than 20 iirc
Great!
I've just been quoted the same price for the alternatives. Hopefully I can get the shipping done to the UK.
I plan to use the following Piezo preamp from the guys at Stompville.
Worked fine for the Geophones that I made and will come out at about half the price of the JLI boards after factoring in postage etc.
Will post back when everything is done.
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Re: Simple set up for concert recording?
Hi
Ive noticed a TASCAM set of 4 drum mics, 2 dynamic and 2 capacitor (48V)?
for ?160?
thought they might work well with your recorder you'll need a stereo bar but the kit comes with 2 mic clips
is your recorder able to record 4 channels at once? have you tried the onboard mics?
you'll also need 2 or 4 xlr leads
if you dont like the sound of the dynamics you could?
allways sell them on
but test them out?at a very loud concert first
All the best
Dow Fereday
LTS Studios UK
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Re: Capsule damage during soldering (was: Primo EM200 + simple P48)
?I just use an radiator from an old computer. Drilled a 10 mm hole and it works just fine. Not as awesome as Nick's jig but surely helps. At least is good as a capsule holder. ? 
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
Nick from micbooster.com here, just a couple of things regarding these capsules.
Operating voltages - these are specified as below.
EM258? 1.5V - 10V
EM200? 3V - 10V
EM204? 3V -10V?
Of course it is the internal FET which has to handle these voltages.? If you look at the sort of FET that might be used in an electret capsule they are often spec'd around 20 volts VDS. In Primo's data sheets, unless otherwise mentioned, the voltage referred to is a typical voltage, rather than a maximum or minimum. It is also one of the test conditions at which some of the other figures have been calculated.
Not as as selling ploy but just for information, although the EM200 and EM204 are end of line, we do have quite a good stock of each type, in terms of DIY quantities.
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Re: Capsule damage during soldering (was: Primo EM200 + simple P48)
This is the jig and heatsink we use for soldering 10 mm capsules.? The loose piece is held in place with elastic bands to keep the capsules steady and in good thermal contact with the sink.? We have been using lead free solder for many years, its not as shiny and can often look like a dry joint, but it has been problem free. This short video shows the jig in use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxNIzOmQljE  Nick - from micbooster.com
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Re: Capsule damage during soldering (was: Primo EM200 + simple P48)
There are big differences in lead free solders. There are some that can be soldered as easily as solder with lead and with some others your solder joints look like you soldered for the?first time. There are also some special low melting point solders for temperature sensitive solder joints. Here with a melting point of 118¡ãC:
.
Not sure how it contacts pre-tinned pads.?
Lead solder has been outlawed for a while now as it¡¯s poisonous when equipment is discarded and leaches into the ground. It generally has a lower melting point and it¡¯s also more stable and a bit softer, which is why I prefer it, but ROHS laws in Europe prohibit its use in new products.?
Kester is very good but be prepared to pay more than you expect for decent solder. It¡¯s well worth it and reduces time in contact and heating of the component.?
Some capsules come with pre-tinned pads, some don¡¯t.?
I use 0.7mm 60/40 2.2% flux, but there are probably many other options that would work equally well.?
J ?Hi, original poster here.
Big thanks to Jan, Jack and others for addressing my capsule heat-damage concerns. I can approach my "sky-mic" project with greater confidence.
Remaining questions:?
Solder: By "leaded", is it meant "low-temperature"? Different lead percentages? Best solder wire gauge? Resin-core? Acid-core? Solid? Brand/Model recommebdations?
Capsule pads/solder joints: Do most or all capsules espoused on MicBuilders come with pretinned pads? Will Jan's "scratch off the oxide" preliminary step resolve a mentioned incompatibility with low-temperature (leaded?) solder? Or is it just that tip temperature must be high enough to also soften the pretinning?
Thanks again!
-John T ?sky-facing bird-call mic projecteer Something to secure your capsule while soldering certainly helps. For small parts, I often use self-closing tweezers. But that may not work too well for round capsules. But maybe it works when grabbing the capsule between front and back side?
Leaded solder should als work, provide you also reduce tip temperature at the same time. Say, between 320 an 350C max. And you'll want a good, temperature controlled soldering station. Professionally and for hobby use, I use JBC. By a miles distance the best you can get. You don't believe it until you have worked with it and have compared it side by side with eg Weller or Pace. Yes, they are expensive. But you can buy a JBC clone, eg the GVM T245 on Aliexpress and use with genuine JBC tips. Aliexpress tips often break down quickly and do not solder as well as genuine JBC.
Last tip: scratch off the oxide layer from the solder joints on the capsule before soldering. The thin oxide layer acts as a heat barrier.
Good luck!
Jan
L
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Re: Capsule damage during soldering (was: Primo EM200 + simple P48)
Lead solder has been outlawed for a while now as it¡¯s poisonous when equipment is discarded and leaches into the ground. It generally has a lower melting point and it¡¯s also more stable and a bit softer, which is why I prefer it, but ROHS laws in Europe prohibit its use in new products.?
Kester is very good but be prepared to pay more than you expect for decent solder. It¡¯s well worth it and reduces time in contact and heating of the component.?
Some capsules come with pre-tinned pads, some don¡¯t.?
I use 0.7mm 60/40 2.2% flux, but there are probably many other options that would work equally well.?
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On 8 Nov 2023, at 09:42, Joe Todd <jjthaden@...> wrote:
?Hi, original poster here.
Big thanks to Jan, Jack and others for addressing my capsule heat-damage concerns. I can approach my "sky-mic" project with greater confidence.
Remaining questions:?
Solder: By "leaded", is it meant "low-temperature"? Different lead percentages? Best solder wire gauge? Resin-core? Acid-core? Solid? Brand/Model recommebdations?
Capsule pads/solder joints: Do most or all capsules espoused on MicBuilders come with pretinned pads? Will Jan's "scratch off the oxide" preliminary step resolve a mentioned incompatibility with low-temperature (leaded?) solder? Or is it just that tip temperature must be high enough to also soften the pretinning?
Thanks again!
-John T ?sky-facing bird-call mic projecteer On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 12:46 AM, j.postma8@... <j.postma8@...> wrote: Something to secure your capsule while soldering certainly helps. For small parts, I often use self-closing tweezers. But that may not work too well for round capsules. But maybe it works when grabbing the capsule between front and back side?
Leaded solder should als work, provide you also reduce tip temperature at the same time. Say, between 320 an 350C max. And you'll want a good, temperature controlled soldering station. Professionally and for hobby use, I use JBC. By a miles distance the best you can get. You don't believe it until you have worked with it and have compared it side by side with eg Weller or Pace. Yes, they are expensive. But you can buy a JBC clone, eg the GVM T245 on Aliexpress and use with genuine JBC tips. Aliexpress tips often break down quickly and do not solder as well as genuine JBC.
Last tip: scratch off the oxide layer from the solder joints on the capsule before soldering. The thin oxide layer acts as a heat barrier.
Good luck!
Jan
L
|
Re: Capsule damage during soldering (was: Primo EM200 + simple P48)
Hi, original poster here.
Big thanks to Jan, Jack and others for addressing my capsule heat-damage concerns. I can approach my "sky-mic" project with greater confidence.
Remaining questions:?
Solder: By "leaded", is it meant "low-temperature"? Different lead percentages? Best solder wire gauge? Resin-core? Acid-core? Solid? Brand/Model recommebdations?
Capsule pads/solder joints: Do most or all capsules espoused on MicBuilders come with pretinned pads? Will Jan's "scratch off the oxide" preliminary step resolve a mentioned incompatibility with low-temperature (leaded?) solder? Or is it just that tip temperature must be high enough to also soften the pretinning?
Thanks again!
-John T ?sky-facing bird-call mic projecteer
On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 12:46 AM, j.postma8@... <j.postma8@...> wrote: Something to secure your capsule while soldering certainly helps. For small parts, I often use self-closing tweezers. But that may not work too well for round capsules. But maybe it works when grabbing the capsule between front and back side? Leaded solder should als work, provide you also reduce tip temperature at the same time. Say, between 320 an 350C max. And you'll want a good, temperature controlled soldering station. Professionally and for hobby use, I use JBC. By a miles distance the best you can get. You don't believe it until you have worked with it and have compared it side by side with eg Weller or Pace. Yes, they are expensive. But you can buy a JBC clone, eg the GVM T245 on Aliexpress and use with genuine JBC tips. Aliexpress tips often break down quickly and do not solder as well as genuine JBC. Last tip: scratch off the oxide layer from the solder joints on the capsule before soldering. The thin oxide layer acts as a heat barrier. Good luck! Jan L
_._,_._,_
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Re: Capsule damage during soldering (was: Primo EM200 + simple P48)
You can use a tiny plier with a rubber band on the handles as a tiny vice.
Something to secure your capsule while soldering certainly helps. For small parts, I often use self-closing tweezers. But that may not work too well for round capsules. But maybe it works when grabbing the capsule between front and back side?
|
Re: Capsule damage during soldering (was: Primo EM200 + simple P48)
Something to secure your capsule while soldering certainly helps. For small parts, I often use self-closing tweezers. But that may not work too well for round capsules. But maybe it works when grabbing the capsule between front and back side?
Leaded solder should als work, provide you also reduce tip temperature at the same time. Say, between 320 an 350C max. And you'll want a good, temperature controlled soldering station. Professionally and for hobby use, I use JBC. By a miles distance the best you can get. You don't believe it until you have worked with it and have compared it side by side with eg Weller or Pace. Yes, they are expensive. But you can buy a JBC clone, eg the GVM T245 on Aliexpress and use with genuine JBC tips. Aliexpress tips often break down quickly and do not solder as well as genuine JBC.
Last tip: scratch off the oxide layer from the solder joints on the capsule before soldering. The thin oxide layer acts as a heat barrier.
Good luck!
Jan
L
|
Re: Simple set up for concert recording?
If you want to build something that will Work and sounds good try these:?
It will plug into 3.5mm jack and does not need power. ? Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch?
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On Nov 7, 2023, at 19:48, W2HX <w2hx@...> wrote:
?
Hello, I am a new member and a newbie to recording.
?
I am looking to create a simple, transportable set up to record live rock/jam band concerts from the audience without access to the soundboard. I purchased a Tascam Portacapture X8 and I have been learning the ins and outs. My first attempt
for microphones were these low-cost pencil mics from amazon: ? I used them and found that the sound was pretty awful, even for a novice. They were very thin sounding and lacked bass.
?
I am looking to this group for a recommendation on a pair of mics that would be more suitable for this purpose (loud concerts recorded from the audience). I think they should be directional, but I am not wedded to pencil or booms, unless
the folks here think those are the right solutions. My budget is about $200 per mic but happy to spend less if I could or could stretch a bit if necessary.
?
I did look at the Sennheiser MKE 440 as the sound seemed really good. What I don¡¯t love about it is that it needs its own batteries. I would prefer something that could use the phantom power of the Tascam (or no power if dynamic) or USB
powered, but I am not looking for the audio to pass over USB, I think XLR would be the way to go. I also don¡¯t love the idea of the built in cable as others have noted.
?
Can anyone recommend a pair of mics that sound good, can use either no power or power from the Tascam or a USB-C power connector and XLR if possible. The Tascam X8 does have a 1/8¡± (3.5mm) line-in jack but not sure how well that will work.
?
Ok, enough from me. Thank in advance for your thoughts.
?
73 Eugene W2HX
Youtube Channel:?
?
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Simple set up for concert recording?
Hello, I am a new member and a newbie to recording.
?
I am looking to create a simple, transportable set up to record live rock/jam band concerts from the audience without access to the soundboard. I purchased a Tascam Portacapture X8 and I have been learning the ins and outs. My first attempt
for microphones were these low-cost pencil mics from amazon: ? I used them and found that the sound was pretty awful, even for a novice. They were very thin sounding and lacked bass.
?
I am looking to this group for a recommendation on a pair of mics that would be more suitable for this purpose (loud concerts recorded from the audience). I think they should be directional, but I am not wedded to pencil or booms, unless
the folks here think those are the right solutions. My budget is about $200 per mic but happy to spend less if I could or could stretch a bit if necessary.
?
I did look at the Sennheiser MKE 440 as the sound seemed really good. What I don¡¯t love about it is that it needs its own batteries. I would prefer something that could use the phantom power of the Tascam (or no power if dynamic) or USB
powered, but I am not looking for the audio to pass over USB, I think XLR would be the way to go. I also don¡¯t love the idea of the built in cable as others have noted.
?
Can anyone recommend a pair of mics that sound good, can use either no power or power from the Tascam or a USB-C power connector and XLR if possible. The Tascam X8 does have a 1/8¡± (3.5mm) line-in jack but not sure how well that will work.
?
Ok, enough from me. Thank in advance for your thoughts.
?
73 Eugene W2HX
Youtube Channel:?
?
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Re: Primo EM200 + simple P48
On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 05:21 PM, ROSS HALE wrote:
I have looked in the files section but can't find a recommendation for the resistor value and wonder if anyone suggest a value please?
SimpleP48.pdf in my Files has a list of resistor values and the resulting Vds for various Primo capsules and 'P48' supplies. It is likely ALL Primo capsules use the same NEC FET so the same resistor(s) are appropriate .. as are the testing methods in that document After much oohing & aarhing over the optimum Vds, my present opinion is that 5V is better than 10V ... but anything within that range is good ... and don't be surprised if I change my mind :) If you do measure Vds with different resistors, do send me an email with your results so I can update the database.
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Re: Steminc vs "Alice" Piezoelements
Great!
I've just been quoted the same price for the alternatives. Hopefully I can get the shipping done to the UK.
I plan to use the following Piezo preamp from the guys at Stompville.
Worked fine for the Geophones that I made and will come out at about half the price of the JLI boards after factoring in postage etc.
Will post back when everything is done.
|
Re: Capsule damage during soldering
Apparently leaded and unleaded solder don¡¯t mix too well
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On 7 Nov 2023, at 17:48, Casey via groups.io <mbuilders@...> wrote:
?
I like to use leaded low temperature solder, but that doesn¡¯t work well with pre-tinned capsule pads. What's the issue with this? Do the dissimilar alloys not bond well or something?
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Re: Capsule damage during soldering
I like to use leaded low temperature solder, but that doesn¡¯t work well with pre-tinned capsule pads. What's the issue with this? Do the dissimilar alloys not bond well or something?
|
Re: Capsule damage during soldering
I don't know how it is possible to crimp to PCB pads. Spot welding is probably possible especially on the capsules with larger pads. Another possibility is spring contacts or pogo pins.
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Re: Steminc vs "Alice" Piezoelements
You should be fine with a different size. ?I built a couple with different ones and they all worked.? Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch?
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On Nov 7, 2023, at 02:49, Fuzzyface via groups.io <fuzzy@...> wrote:
?This is good news. Thanks for checking this all out.
I tried to get a quote for the 26x23x13 sized tubes but they are unfortunately out of stock.
They have 25x21x15 as an alternative, would such a small size difference cause a problem or is it best to wait for fresh stock??
Steve.
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Re: Capsule damage during soldering
Thanks, Scott, where can I learn more about this? For instance, do these capsules have two or three solder pads? For connecting the needed two or three leads? So then two or three smaller through-holes in the metal former? Is there a source for a specialized tool kit?
-John
On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 07:35:54 AM CST, Scott Helmke <scott@...> wrote:
Crimping is a no-heat alternative. In a factory setting it would be
faster, too.
-Scott
On 11/7/23 07:24, jack wrote: > One thing they recommend is a metal former, basically a chunk of metal > with a capsule sized hole drilled in it, with a smaller concentric > hole that goes all the way through, to act as a heat sink. > > You put your capsule in the hole and only keep the soldering iron in > contact with the solder pad for a second or so. > > I like to use leaded low temperature solder, but that doesn¡¯t work > well with pre-tinned capsule pads. > > It does seem pretty crazy that the heating due to soldering would > alter the response but I guess the diaphragms are extremely thin and > delicate. > > J > > On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 at 13:18, Joe Todd < jjthaden@...> wrote: > >? ? Forgive me if I'm highjacking a thread here (I did change the >? ? subject line), but isn't there an alternative to soldering these >? ? valuable and sensitive condenser capsules? Maybe slver clay or >? ? paste as used by jewelers? > >? ? If not, then can someone please direct me to a soldering protocol >? ? that includes materials and tools lists? > >? ? Or are there versions of these ideal capsules that have wire? leads? > >? ? I've got a nifty DIY project but I hesitate to jump in exactly for >? ? fear of capsule and PCB heat damage. > >? ? Thank you, >? ? John Thaden >? ? Avian migration night flight calls recordist, >? ? College Station, Texas, USA > > -- ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ---- "I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular, for everything is holy"? - Joe Henry
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underwood
John Thaden