Re: M17 (Wide Area) repeaters?
Hi Steve,
Bridgecom sells an MMDVM upgrade for their repeaters that looks to be based on the same Repeaterbuilder MMDVM board I have been experimenting with.? I can't confirm M17 runs on it, *yet* but I do know the firmware with M17 will build and install.
https://www.bridgecomsystems.com/products/mmdvm
73,
Ben KU0HN
-------- Original Message -------- On 6/5/24 5:36 PM, Steve Stroh wrote: A primary reason that I consider M17 now viable is that it¡¯s possible to build a repeater for use by M17.
I first realized that from this mention of building an MMDVM repeater, which was capable of M17:
And later there was this proof of concept - the?W6CX-DV -- MultiMode Digital Voice Repeater which I discussed here:
Are there other examples of MMDVM-based repeaters, or repeaters that are only M17?
Again, I¡¯m aware of ¡°hotspot¡± repeaters / nodes. What I¡¯m looking for is wide area repeaters that we would typically use for FM, DMR, D-Star, SF, P-25, etc.
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
-- Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - Radios are Computers - With Antennas!
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I support your idea, Steve. Voice repeaters are silent.... Data is the way to go. Adopting would be much easier if direwolf software could be used as a TNC for M17 Packet mode. I already opened an enhancement ticket in their Git Hub.
El mi¨¦, 5 jun 2024 a la(s) 7:40?p.m., Steve Stroh via (steve.stroh= [email protected]) escribi¨®: I think that upgrading (or creating from scratch) a wide-area repeater to do ¡°just another digital voice mode¡± (especially one that has only a few radio options available) will be a challenging request for a lot of groups.
But, if an M17 was able to do messaging and / or data (as in file transfers), that would provide additional incentive to do such an upgrade.
I¡¯m hoping that the (development in progress) MMDVM-TNC data mode becomes a reality and provides such a justification for upgrading / creating from scratch a repeater based on MMDVM, but having that capability in M17 would be great.
So, can anyone point me to a writeup or video that discusses messaging and data in M17?
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
-- Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - Radios are Computers - With Antennas!
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I think that upgrading (or creating from scratch) a wide-area repeater to do ¡°just another digital voice mode¡± (especially one that has only a few radio options available) will be a challenging request for a lot of groups.
But, if an M17 was able to do messaging and / or data (as in file transfers), that would provide additional incentive to do such an upgrade.
I¡¯m hoping that the (development in progress) MMDVM-TNC data mode becomes a reality and provides such a justification for upgrading / creating from scratch a repeater based on MMDVM, but having that capability in M17 would be great.
So, can anyone point me to a writeup or video that discusses messaging and data in M17?
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
-- Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - Radios are Computers - With Antennas!
|
M17 (Wide Area) repeaters?
A primary reason that I consider M17 now viable is that it¡¯s possible to build a repeater for use by M17.
I first realized that from this mention of building an MMDVM repeater, which was capable of M17:
And later there was this proof of concept - the?W6CX-DV -- MultiMode Digital Voice Repeater which I discussed here:
Are there other examples of MMDVM-based repeaters, or repeaters that are only M17?
Again, I¡¯m aware of ¡°hotspot¡± repeaters / nodes. What I¡¯m looking for is wide area repeaters that we would typically use for FM, DMR, D-Star, SF, P-25, etc.
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
-- Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - Radios are Computers - With Antennas!
|
I just discovered this¡
The premier M17 Amateur Radio Club
Where the M17 Project is largely centered around development of the protocol and implementations of it, the M17 Amateur Radio Club (ARC) is a user group focused specifically on encouraging and supporting the spread of M17 repeaters, mobiles, handhelds, and all other use of the protocol.
That sounds a lot like the mission of this email list.
Anyone know anything about this?
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
-- Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - Radios are Computers - With Antennas!
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Hi. I¡¯m Chip, W0CHP.
I¡¯m a M17 Project developer/sysadmin and board member, and I¡¯m also the founder/principal author-developer/BDFL of the .
Ben, KU0HN, is my literal neighbor; and Steve, KC1AWV, also of the M17 Project¡is a close friend.?
I simply have too much equipment to list. ;-)
73,
W0CHP?
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Hello, This is Ben KU0HN.
As far as M17 hardware I have:
1 MMDVM RPi hat hotspot running WPSD
2 MMDVM Pi hat modems.? These are both a work-in-progress.? One will be connected to a Kenwood TK-790.? The other to a pair of TK-880s for a repeater.? I've been mostly using DMR as my test mode for these and have had various struggles.? I just did some late spring shack cleaning and hope to get back to them shortly.
Several Mobilinkds and NucleoTNCs with the M17 firmware.? I have tested this with a TK-790.
1 TYT MD-390 at a friend's place right now for the hardware mod.? He used to solder little stuff like that professionally so he is less likely to screw it up than I am.
I also have a few SDRs laying around.? I really appreciate Tony's mention of SDR++ for setting deviation.? That's something I have struggled with using GQRX with a HackRFOne or RTL-SDR so I'll have to give it a try.
73 all
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Austria is fine as well¡
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Hey, if it comes down to it, we can order a bunch and send them to Austria.
*ahem* I mean Australia.
---
Steve KC1AWV
M17 Project
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Hi! LW7EMN, Juan, from Azul, Argentina.
It is nice to see some community build-up
Thanks for the zero retries moderator!
I had been experimenting with M17 for a year.
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I hope these get off the ground.?
Unfortunately, exchange rate makes them rather expensive here, but
if I get a windfall, I'll add one to my list of (future) devices.
On 5/6/24 6:01 am, Tom Early via
groups.io wrote:
CSI has a pre-release announcement for two M17 HT radios and are
accepting orders.
I have no affiliation with CSI, but I hope these radios "fly off
the shelves". It would be an important milestone for the M17
Project.
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
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As I said in my intro post, I have the
following M17 hardware:
Gateway:
MMDVM (both hotspot and modem with
external radios).
Client/user:
MMDVM with M17Client and 9600 capable radio.
Module1 with 9600 capable radio.
TNC3 with updated firmware and Android app with 9600 capable
radio.
RT3S (not yet modded).
PlutoSDR with SDR++ (Rx only).
I have demonstrated the first two at
hamfests.
Other hardware known to work:
MMDVM hotspot (will work with M17Client or DroidStar).
Select Icom radios with Micro17.
Of course, MD380/380UV and clones with
OpenRTX and hardware mods.
AngelSDR has M17 support, but is quite
buggy, not recommended.
On 5/6/24 2:17 am, Steve Stroh via
groups.io wrote:
Than you all for joining this list! I
hoped for maybe a dozen of us and we¡¯re comfortably past that.
I¡¯ll be at least another day before I can actively
participate here as we visited our daughter after SEA-PAC.?
I currently do not have any M17 capable gear other
than a pair of MMDVM boards for Raspberry Pi.
What I hope to be able to promote to our fellow
hams is current hardware that is capable of M17 over RF.
By current I mean hardware that is in production
and purchasable by other hams. It doesn¡¯t have to be native M17
- just known that can be modified (with available instructions)
such as the Icom radios or the OpenRTX portables.
I think that a comprehensive list of RF capable hardware will
strongly make the case for M17.?
So please share with what you have, and what you
know that¡¯s capable of M17 RF.
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his)
Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter -
Radios are Computers - With Antennas!
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
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I cheated with the cable, as I said,
because I knew the Module17 was pin compatible with the BI7JTA and
Repeater Builders MMDVM boards, for which I had a cable on hand.?
You can order just the cable for these boards online for the 6 pin
mini DIN connector.? I also believe there's a 6 to 10 pin adapter,
which will work with the newer Yaesu radios, but I could be wrong.
On 4/6/24 10:07 pm, Steve K3FZT via
groups.io wrote:
Thank you, Tony, for the description of your
efforts for M17. I've been circling M17 RF for over a year and
am on the threshold now with a Lilygo M17 module 0.1e and a
cable that's almost ready for testing with my Yaesu FTM-300. My
familial essential tremor limits my soldering activity to
mornings before coffee and getting probes on it will be
similarly challenging. I've got several home assembled
(assembled not built,?one with a BI7JTA board) WPSD hotspots
w/MMDVM patched up to 1.6x for M17. I was interested in your
story about the dual analog/digital hotspot. I'm halfway there
with a radioless public node in the crowd w/ASL 2.0.3 beta on
Debian 12.5 that I'm next going to install a private ASL node
and then DVSwitch onto that cloud instance and connect to it via
Allstar. This is just an exercise in learning a bit of command
line linux and ASL and DVSwitch configuration files as I don't
expect to maintain it through software and os updates.
I'm looking for someone local who would modify a TYT
MD-UV380 for me and I have picked up a used Icom HT waiting
for one of those M17 modules I've read about on the Discord.
Following with interest.
73 de K3FZT / Steve?
--
Steve
Davidson K3FZT | GMRS: WRVS468
Supporting
VARA FM Wide/1200bd
Packet
WIRES-X
Room #85218 "MARC-DARBY" 444.050 mHz
Hi
everyone, just a quick introduction.
Tony, VK3JED here, located in central Victoria, Australia.
I've been following the M17 Project since late 2020, when I
discovered it by accident via one of the DVSwitch mailing
lists.? I've been involved in the community since in a few
ways - testing software and hardware, promoting M17 at
hamfests and club meetings, and supporting other users on the
M17 Discord, Facebook and other social media.
Equipment wise, I have the following:
Gateways
BI7JTA duplex hotspot with hand built MMDVM stack (no Pi-Star
or WPSD) running on a Pi 3B.? The reason for the unusual
configuration is because the hotspot is an analogue and
digital hotspot, with an AllStar node driving a SHARI for the
analogue side.? I had to use the ASL 2.0 beta image, then
install the MMDVM software on top from source.
BI7JTA V3F4 MMDVM with external radios on a Pi 3B, configured
as a repeater.? This runs a heavily hacked version of Pi-Star,
as it dates back to the first M17 capable version of MMDVMHost
and M17Gateway.? While I've upgraded software components, I
haven't replaced the system with anything like WPSD (yet).?
Currently, the repeater is running into a dummy load.? I have
to install its antenna and update the licence paperwork.
M17 radios
BI7JTA V3F4 MMDVM running M17Client.? This was my first
operational M17 radio setup.? The radio used with this MMDVM
is a FT-818 in 9600 PKT mode.
Module17 (Rev 0.1e).? Also configured to work with the
FT-818.? Uses the same interface cable as the MMDVM.
TNC3 with experimental firmware.
SDR++ (Rx only).? Very useful for testing M17 transmitters,
because SDR++ has a very good M17 decoder with reference lines
that allow you to check deviation.? I usually use a PlutoSDR
as the RF front end.
I also have a RT3S, but need to get it modified.? I don't
trust my fine motor coordination.
Anyway, I should be able to help others get on the air.
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
|
New to M17 with no M17 specific hardware yet.
Still in the observing and learning mode.
Steve
N5QC
|
CSI has a pre-release announcement for two M17 HT radios and are accepting orders.
I have no affiliation with CSI, but I hope these radios "fly off the shelves". It would be an important milestone for the M17 Project.
|
Hi, this is Werner OE1WRS. I have only M17 RX capability with SDR++ and Airspy. Can someone post details on the proposed / in development solution for replacing UT-1xx DSTAR boards with a M17 capable board. Which exact ICOM UT board is replaced / which radios can it be fitted ? 55&73 Werner
|
Than you all for joining this list! I hoped for maybe a dozen of us and we¡¯re comfortably past that.
I¡¯ll be at least another day before I can actively participate here as we visited our daughter after SEA-PAC.?
I currently do not have any M17 capable gear other than a pair of MMDVM boards for Raspberry Pi.
What I hope to be able to promote to our fellow hams is current hardware that is capable of M17 over RF.
By current I mean hardware that is in production and purchasable by other hams. It doesn¡¯t have to be native M17 - just known that can be modified (with available instructions) such as the Icom radios or the OpenRTX portables.
I think that a comprehensive list of RF capable hardware will strongly make the case for M17.?
So please share with what you have, and what you know that¡¯s capable of M17 RF.
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - Radios are Computers - With Antennas!
|
Thank you, Tony, for the description of your efforts for M17. I've been circling M17 RF for over a year and am on the threshold now with a Lilygo M17 module 0.1e and a cable that's almost ready for testing with my Yaesu FTM-300. My familial essential tremor limits my soldering activity to mornings before coffee and getting probes on it will be similarly challenging. I've got several home assembled (assembled not built,?one with a BI7JTA board) WPSD hotspots w/MMDVM patched up to 1.6x for M17. I was interested in your story about the dual analog/digital hotspot. I'm halfway there with a radioless public node in the crowd w/ASL 2.0.3 beta on Debian 12.5 that I'm next going to install a private ASL node and then DVSwitch onto that cloud instance and connect to it via Allstar. This is just an exercise in learning a bit of command line linux and ASL and DVSwitch configuration files as I don't expect to maintain it through software and os updates.
I'm looking for someone local who would modify a TYT MD-UV380 for me and I have picked up a used Icom HT waiting for one of those M17 modules I've read about on the Discord.
Following with interest.
73 de K3FZT / Steve? --
Steve Davidson K3FZT | GMRS: WRVS468Winlink Gateway K3FZT-10@...?direct or via W3EOC-3 Supporting VARA FM Wide/1200bd Packet WIRES-X Room #85218 "MARC-DARBY" 444.050 mHz
Hi everyone, just a quick introduction.
Tony, VK3JED here, located in central Victoria, Australia.
I've been following the M17 Project since late 2020, when I discovered it by accident via one of the DVSwitch mailing lists.? I've been involved in the community since in a few ways - testing software and hardware, promoting M17 at hamfests and club meetings, and supporting other users on the M17 Discord, Facebook and other social media.
Equipment wise, I have the following:
Gateways
BI7JTA duplex hotspot with hand built MMDVM stack (no Pi-Star or WPSD) running on a Pi 3B.? The reason for the unusual configuration is because the hotspot is an analogue and digital hotspot, with an AllStar node driving a SHARI for the analogue side.? I had to use the ASL 2.0 beta image, then install the MMDVM software on top from source.
BI7JTA V3F4 MMDVM with external radios on a Pi 3B, configured as a repeater.? This runs a heavily hacked version of Pi-Star, as it dates back to the first M17 capable version of MMDVMHost and M17Gateway.? While I've upgraded software components, I haven't replaced the system with anything like WPSD (yet).? Currently, the repeater is running into a dummy load.? I have to install its antenna and update the licence paperwork.
M17 radios
BI7JTA V3F4 MMDVM running M17Client.? This was my first operational M17 radio setup.? The radio used with this MMDVM is a FT-818 in 9600 PKT mode.
Module17 (Rev 0.1e).? Also configured to work with the FT-818.? Uses the same interface cable as the MMDVM.
TNC3 with experimental firmware.
SDR++ (Rx only).? Very useful for testing M17 transmitters, because SDR++ has a very good M17 decoder with reference lines that allow you to check deviation.? I usually use a PlutoSDR as the RF front end.
I also have a RT3S, but need to get it modified.? I don't trust my fine motor coordination.
Anyway, I should be able to help others get on the air.
|
Hi everyone, just a quick introduction.
Tony, VK3JED here, located in central Victoria, Australia.
I've been following the M17 Project since late 2020, when I discovered it by accident via one of the DVSwitch mailing lists. I've been involved in the community since in a few ways - testing software and hardware, promoting M17 at hamfests and club meetings, and supporting other users on the M17 Discord, Facebook and other social media.
Equipment wise, I have the following:
Gateways
BI7JTA duplex hotspot with hand built MMDVM stack (no Pi-Star or WPSD) running on a Pi 3B. The reason for the unusual configuration is because the hotspot is an analogue and digital hotspot, with an AllStar node driving a SHARI for the analogue side. I had to use the ASL 2.0 beta image, then install the MMDVM software on top from source.
BI7JTA V3F4 MMDVM with external radios on a Pi 3B, configured as a repeater. This runs a heavily hacked version of Pi-Star, as it dates back to the first M17 capable version of MMDVMHost and M17Gateway. While I've upgraded software components, I haven't replaced the system with anything like WPSD (yet). Currently, the repeater is running into a dummy load. I have to install its antenna and update the licence paperwork.
M17 radios
BI7JTA V3F4 MMDVM running M17Client. This was my first operational M17 radio setup. The radio used with this MMDVM is a FT-818 in 9600 PKT mode.
Module17 (Rev 0.1e). Also configured to work with the FT-818. Uses the same interface cable as the MMDVM.
TNC3 with experimental firmware.
SDR++ (Rx only). Very useful for testing M17 transmitters, because SDR++ has a very good M17 decoder with reference lines that allow you to check deviation. I usually use a PlutoSDR as the RF front end.
I also have a RT3S, but need to get it modified. I don't trust my fine motor coordination.
Anyway, I should be able to help others get on the air.
|
I am big on configuration or setup sheets to document my working (and often failed) configuration(s).
They often become good templates for other users to start from.
Steve N5QC
Steve:
Thanks for this.
The M17 developers have existing, well-established channels of communication such as Discord.
Agree on all your points.
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
Priming the conversation, please confirm, correct, add, etc.
Group is to be use and user centric.? I think this is N8CNJ¡¯s point in forming the group.
Development, while interesting, is to be kept separate for clarity and respect to group purpose.
My first thoughts:
Currently Scope: ?What M17 does NOW.
Possible Roadmap: ?What to look for in the future.
How to do (scope things) in MY shack.? And yours. Beyond Dev claims that may be hard to duplicate.
Dialogue on the inevitable ¡°Why doesn¡¯t it behave as expected?¡±
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W0CHP - Chip
Steve KC1AWV
Tom Early
Steve K3FZT