1.?
The G7 decided to loan Ukraine 50 billion dollars to be paid
back from frozen Russian assets this week- is this a good idea?
Yes, this seems very appropriate.
2.? Testa's stockholders agreed to pay Elon Musk up to 54
billion dollars in compensation as CEO this week - it's not
clear to me is this is a one year deal or over multiple years -
is this a good idea?
No, they should just fire Musk. He's not doing Tesla any favors and
his performance there has been weak.
3.? Did you learn anything interesting this week?
Yes, I learned that my right hip is at end state for osteoarthritis.
I will be having hip replacement surgery next month.
4.? Did you do anything interesting this week?
I always do interesting stuff at work.
5.? Is the conflict in Gaza or Sudan more of a human tragedy?
I'm not sure I understand what the question is. If the question is
which one is the bigger human tragedy then I don't see any sense in
asking that. They are certainly both huge human tragedies, but the
Gaza conflict has been going on much longer and there doesn't seem
to be any way to end it.
Aloha,
Celeste Rogers
|
"After thirty years I learned how to make a cell phone call without touching the phone."
Darrell: Isn't that cool? Although, a couple weeks ago I had the GPS up and was trying?to talk over Siri, who insisted on repeating her instructions incessantly?because I was not moving. I told her to be quiet and she did, but now I cannot get her to reliably read directions?when I want her to...I think I hurt her feelings.
"And Hait is simply a failed country that needs an injection of US Marines."
Darrell: With some small amount of bias, I might recommend this approach for several current media-dominating problems..
?
?
1.? The G7 decided to loan Ukraine 50 billion dollars to be paid back from frozen Russian assets this week- is this a good idea?
The assets are primarily from Russian oligarchs who stole it after the Soviet Union dissolved.? Putin is probably the richest man in the world so hopefully a lot o f? it is his.? I would like to see the entire stash given to Ukraine for reconstruction.
2.? Testa's stockholders agreed to pay Elon Musk up to 54 billion dollars in compensation as CEO this week - it's not clear to me is this is a one year deal or over multiple years - is this a good idea?
He is certainly worth more than Bill Gates.? This is not money but stock options which are only worth what the market says - and Tesla went up about 2& yesterday.? I suspeet there are a large number of investors who are glad to see him locked in for a few years.
3.? Did you learn anything interesting this week?
After thirty years I learned how to make a cell phone call without touching the phone.
4.? Did you do anything interesting this week?
I took my granddaughter down the central coast to a job and then over to Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks - she had never seen either - was much implressed.
5.? Is the conflict in Gaza or Sudan more of a human tragedy?
Both - but Gaza was started by Hamas - Sudan is in the midst of a longstanding civil war.? And Hait is simply a failed country that needs an injection of US Marines.
|
?
?
1.? The G7 decided to loan Ukraine 50 billion dollars to be paid back from frozen Russian assets this week- is this a good idea?
The assets are primarily from Russian oligarchs who stole it after the Soviet Union dissolved.? Putin is probably the richest man in the world so hopefully a lot o f? it is his.? I would like to see the entire stash given to Ukraine for reconstruction.
2.? Testa's stockholders agreed to pay Elon Musk up to 54 billion dollars in compensation as CEO this week - it's not clear to me is this is a one year deal or over multiple years - is this a good idea?
He is certainly worth more than Bill Gates.? This is not money but stock options which are only worth what the market says - and Tesla went up about 2& yesterday.? I suspeet there are a large number of investors who are glad to see him locked in for a few years.
3.? Did you learn anything interesting this week?
After thirty years I learned how to make a cell phone call without touching the phone.
4.? Did you do anything interesting this week?
I took my granddaughter down the central coast to a job and then over to Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks - she had never seen either - was much implressed.
5.? Is the conflict in Gaza or Sudan more of a human tragedy?
Both - but Gaza was started by Hamas - Sudan is in the midst of a longstanding civil war.? And Hait is simply a failed country that needs an injection of US Marines.
|
1.? The G7 decided to loan Ukraine 50 billion dollars to be paid back from frozen Russian assets this week- is this a good idea?
I don't know enough about it to have an opinion.? Are these assets private, government, or industrial, for instance.
2.? Testa's stockholders agreed to pay Elon Musk up to 54 billion dollars in compensation as CEO this week - it's not clear to me is this is a one year deal or over multiple years - is this a good idea?
The guy built the company, and he'd probably use the funds to build more companies.? His political funding goes to both sides, so he isn't like George Soros, a trader who never built an company and donates heavily to leftist causes.
3.? Did you learn anything interesting this week?
We had a local murder, and it turns out that the murderer was living four blocks away, renting a downstairs apartment from a naive local businessman who was trying to evict him.? He shot and killed another career criminal in?a?downtown?flophouse, though. but the landlord is probably relieved and alarmed.? The businessman owns a local coffee shop that we frequent, and he employs a close family friend who just graduated from high school as a roaster.? The Elko SWAT team had the murderer cornered in the house where he lived, and used a "chemical" means to subdue him before bursting into the apartment and finding him hiding under the bed.
4.? Did you do anything interesting this week?
The annual Mining Expo was this week,?and I went to that and saw some old?friends.? It's graduation weekend, so we had a family over for dinner just before the evening ceremony and attended a dinner at the home of another graduate.? We knew both of them since they were two, so it was interesting seeing them grow up and get ready to leave home.?
5.? Is the conflict in Gaza or Sudan more of a human tragedy?
I don't know how one would compare the two, but they are both human tragedies.
Ed
On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 6:54?AM Darrell King via <DarrellGKing= [email protected]> wrote: 1.? The G7 decided to loan Ukraine 50 billion dollars to be paid back from frozen Russian assets this week- is this a good idea?
Yes. Assuming we, The Allies, are siding with Ukraine, then we should use enemy funding and resources whenever possible?to win. I am no expert, but it seems to me this is definitely a war in which we have picked a side.??
The common people are deprived of seventy percent of their budget, while the government's expenses for equipment amount to sixty percent of its budget. Therefore a wise general strives to feed off the enemy.?Each pound of food taken from the enemy is equivalent to twenty pounds you provide by yourself. - Sun Tzu (.)
2.? Testa's stockholders agreed to pay Elon Musk up to 54 billion dollars in compensation as CEO this week - it's not clear to me is this is a one year deal or over multiple years - is this a good idea?
He will get it one way or another. He has built himself into a power and I somehow do have confidence he has personally pushed at least some of the company's longevity and limited success into reality. I say it is a good idea because I believe (without objectively convincing evidence to present) he will reinvest into newer innovative technologies.
3.? Did you learn anything interesting this week?
I learned how to research the validity of a cashier's check as we are selling the skoolie and moving into a travel trailer. I learned how to set up the weight distribution?portion of the towing system and a good?deal about how to route?the wiring as I set up the solar system on the trailer. I also learned the initial basics of self-installing a soft start in the air?conditioner to mitigate the startup surge?that makes these systems so demanding on RV power systems.
I have been gradually learning more about politics and global warfare just as collateral damage from owning a computer and a TV.
I learned that my youth's home?area has outrageously priced RV parks!
I learned I can still climb a ladder one storey without falling off, I learned that 2015 GMC Sierra keys cost about $150 each in?my area and I learned that I am not quite as spry at climbing into the forward storage compartment on my new trailer.
Seem trivial? The human mind is learning nonstop and I think most of what?mine picks up is interesting to me?to some degree. Use it or lose it, folks...
4.? Did you do anything interesting this week?
Other?than everything related to the above, I am mostly hunkering in place in Western NY while I switch homes and visit family. The typically interesting things about visiting new places will renew its prominence in late July, but for now I am working out, working on the switch and catching up with things like doctor appointments.
5.? Is the conflict in Gaza or Sudan more of a human tragedy?
I presume you mean to ask that we contrast and compare? I cannot help much with that as the use of statistics and number as metrics seems disingenuous?to me, while I have no personal contact with these place to use as assessment data. I did meet a member of the IDF who is on leave and I was treated to first-hand commentary on how Israel?feels surrounded and relentlessly hounded across decades. Make of it what you will! In the end, however, I say they are equally tragic because the suffering is so widespread and similar. Don't forget Haiti, though, and so many places in South America! Just review war-torn places there...don't start me on weather-related tragedies, famine hotspots or poverty.
May you live in interesting times.
|
1.? The G7 decided to loan Ukraine 50 billion dollars to be paid back from frozen Russian assets this week- is this a good idea?
Yes. Assuming we, The Allies, are siding with Ukraine, then we should use enemy funding and resources whenever possible?to win. I am no expert, but it seems to me this is definitely a war in which we have picked a side.??
The common people are deprived of seventy percent of their budget, while the government's expenses for equipment amount to sixty percent of its budget. Therefore a wise general strives to feed off the enemy.?Each pound of food taken from the enemy is equivalent to twenty pounds you provide by yourself. - Sun Tzu (.)
2.? Testa's stockholders agreed to pay Elon Musk up to 54 billion dollars in compensation as CEO this week - it's not clear to me is this is a one year deal or over multiple years - is this a good idea?
He will get it one way or another. He has built himself into a power and I somehow do have confidence he has personally pushed at least some of the company's longevity and limited success into reality. I say it is a good idea because I believe (without objectively convincing evidence to present) he will reinvest into newer innovative technologies.
3.? Did you learn anything interesting this week?
I learned how to research the validity of a cashier's check as we are selling the skoolie and moving into a travel trailer. I learned how to set up the weight distribution?portion of the towing system and a good?deal about how to route?the wiring as I set up the solar system on the trailer. I also learned the initial basics of self-installing a soft start in the air?conditioner to mitigate the startup surge?that makes these systems so demanding on RV power systems.
I have been gradually learning more about politics and global warfare just as collateral damage from owning a computer and a TV.
I learned that my youth's home?area has outrageously priced RV parks!
I learned I can still climb a ladder one storey without falling off, I learned that 2015 GMC Sierra keys cost about $150 each in?my area and I learned that I am not quite as spry at climbing into the forward storage compartment on my new trailer.
Seem trivial? The human mind is learning nonstop and I think most of what?mine picks up is interesting to me?to some degree. Use it or lose it, folks...
4.? Did you do anything interesting this week?
Other?than everything related to the above, I am mostly hunkering in place in Western NY while I switch homes and visit family. The typically interesting things about visiting new places will renew its prominence in late July, but for now I am working out, working on the switch and catching up with things like doctor appointments.
5.? Is the conflict in Gaza or Sudan more of a human tragedy?
I presume you mean to ask that we contrast and compare? I cannot help much with that as the use of statistics and number as metrics seems disingenuous?to me, while I have no personal contact with these place to use as assessment data. I did meet a member of the IDF who is on leave and I was treated to first-hand commentary on how Israel?feels surrounded and relentlessly hounded across decades. Make of it what you will! In the end, however, I say they are equally tragic because the suffering is so widespread and similar. Don't forget Haiti, though, and so many places in South America! Just review war-torn places there...don't start me on weather-related tragedies, famine hotspots or poverty.
May you live in interesting times.
|
1.? The G7 decided to loan Ukraine 50 billion dollars to be paid back from frozen Russian assets this week- is this a good idea?
2.? Testa's stockholders agreed to pay Elon Musk up to 54 billion dollars in compensation as CEO this week - it's not clear to me is this is a one year deal or over multiple years - is this a good idea?
3.? Did you learn anything interesting this week?
4.? Did you do anything interesting this week?
5.? Is the conflict in Gaza or Sudan more of a human tragedy?
|
Re: [PhilosophicalM] Friday Five May 31
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 11, 2024, at 19:28, a1thighmaster via groups.io <thighmaster@...> wrote:
?
David,
Is there any evidence that the aren't?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 6/11/2024 12:21 PM, David Smith
wrote:
Poorly controlled immigration from Islamic
countries. ?The assumption seems to be that all immigrants are
the same and will fold smoothly into the host country.
On Jun 11, 2024, at 16:47, Celeste wrote:
?
David,
How so?
On 6/10/2024 1:16 PM, David Smith
wrote:
Residents in Western countries are learning the cost of
their governments making that assumption.
On Jun 10, 2024, at 11:27, Celeste wrote:
?
David,
It will never be completely harmonious, but there is
usually consensus.
On 6/9/2024 5:42 PM, David
Smith via groups.io wrote:
The moral consensus in a community will never be
completely harmonious. ?Humans are not mass produced
machines.
On Jun 9, 2024, at 23:02, Celeste
wrote:
?
Darrell,
I agree that morality is somewhat subjective.
Not entirely, though, because we are not the
only ones in our world. Morality does involve
the others around us and in our community.
On 6/9/2024 3:32 PM,
Darrell King wrote:
I might argue that morality?is
subjective, Celeste. Personally, for
instance, I feel sex lives are the
problems of those living those lives and
I do not care if they bribe people to
cover their dirty laundry. I realize
there is also a question of misuse of
power, but when I hear someone tried to
cover up their sex life with that
misuse, it has all the impact on me of a
jaywalking charge. I have lived through
too many real life sexcapades, I guess.
On Sat, Jun
8, 2024 at 10:04?PM Celeste wrote:
David,
There's nothing morally neutral about
covering up adultery to influence the
outcome of a U.S. election. It is purely
morally bad. I also disagree that law
and justice have nothing in common. They
have a lot in common.
On 6/8/2024 1:48 PM, David Smith via
wrote:
Whether a thought or an action is judged morally neutral or good or bad is up to one's understanding of morality, which, especially in these angry times, is practically up for grabs. Today, people are likely to believe whatever their information sources tell them is true. As for law, I think we'd agree that law and justice have nothing inherently in common.
Celeste wrote:
? In the case of Trump's hush money scheme he was both morally and legally guilty.
On 6/7/2024 6:50 PM, David Smith via wrote:
|
Re: [PhilosophicalM] Friday Five May 31
David,
Is there any evidence that the aren't?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 6/11/2024 12:21 PM, David Smith
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Poorly controlled immigration from Islamic
countries. ?The assumption seems to be that all immigrants are
the same and will fold smoothly into the host country.
On Jun 11, 2024, at 16:47, Celeste wrote:
?
David,
How so?
On 6/10/2024 1:16 PM, David Smith
wrote:
Residents in Western countries are learning the cost of
their governments making that assumption.
On Jun 10, 2024, at 11:27, Celeste wrote:
?
David,
It will never be completely harmonious, but there is
usually consensus.
On 6/9/2024 5:42 PM, David
Smith via groups.io wrote:
The moral consensus in a community will never be
completely harmonious. ?Humans are not mass produced
machines.
On Jun 9, 2024, at 23:02, Celeste
wrote:
?
Darrell,
I agree that morality is somewhat subjective.
Not entirely, though, because we are not the
only ones in our world. Morality does involve
the others around us and in our community.
On 6/9/2024 3:32 PM,
Darrell King wrote:
I might argue that morality?is
subjective, Celeste. Personally, for
instance, I feel sex lives are the
problems of those living those lives and
I do not care if they bribe people to
cover their dirty laundry. I realize
there is also a question of misuse of
power, but when I hear someone tried to
cover up their sex life with that
misuse, it has all the impact on me of a
jaywalking charge. I have lived through
too many real life sexcapades, I guess.
On Sat, Jun
8, 2024 at 10:04?PM Celeste wrote:
David,
There's nothing morally neutral about
covering up adultery to influence the
outcome of a U.S. election. It is purely
morally bad. I also disagree that law
and justice have nothing in common. They
have a lot in common.
On 6/8/2024 1:48 PM, David Smith via
wrote:
Whether a thought or an action is judged morally neutral or good or bad is up to one's understanding of morality, which, especially in these angry times, is practically up for grabs. Today, people are likely to believe whatever their information sources tell them is true. As for law, I think we'd agree that law and justice have nothing inherently in common.
Celeste wrote:
? In the case of Trump's hush money scheme he was both morally and legally guilty.
On 6/7/2024 6:50 PM, David Smith via wrote:
|
Re: [PhilosophicalM] Friday Five May 31
Poorly controlled immigration from Islamic countries. ?The assumption seems to be that all immigrants are the same and will fold smoothly into the host country.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 11, 2024, at 16:47, a1thighmaster <thighmaster@...> wrote:
?
David,
How so?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 6/10/2024 1:16 PM, David Smith
wrote:
Residents in Western countries are learning the cost of their
governments making that assumption.
On Jun 10, 2024, at 11:27, Celeste wrote:
?
David,
It will never be completely harmonious, but there is usually
consensus.
On 6/9/2024 5:42 PM, David Smith
via groups.io wrote:
The moral consensus in a community will never be
completely harmonious. ?Humans are not mass produced
machines.
On Jun 9, 2024, at 23:02, Celeste wrote:
?
Darrell,
I agree that morality is somewhat subjective. Not
entirely, though, because we are not the only ones in
our world. Morality does involve the others around us
and in our community.
On 6/9/2024 3:32 PM,
Darrell King wrote:
I might argue that morality?is subjective,
Celeste. Personally, for instance, I feel sex
lives are the problems of those living those
lives and I do not care if they bribe people
to cover their dirty laundry. I realize there
is also a question of misuse of power, but
when I hear someone tried to cover up their
sex life with that misuse, it has all the
impact on me of a jaywalking charge. I have
lived through too many real life sexcapades, I
guess.
On Sat, Jun 8,
2024 at 10:04?PM Celeste wrote:
David,
There's nothing morally neutral about covering
up adultery to influence the outcome of a U.S.
election. It is purely morally bad. I also
disagree that law and justice have nothing in
common. They have a lot in common.
On 6/8/2024 1:48 PM, David Smith via wrote:
Whether a thought or an action is judged morally neutral or good or bad is up to one's understanding of morality, which, especially in these angry times, is practically up for grabs. Today, people are likely to believe whatever their information sources tell them is true. As for law, I think we'd agree that law and justice have nothing inherently in common.
Celeste wrote:
? In the case of Trump's hush money scheme he was both morally and legally guilty.
On 6/7/2024 6:50 PM, David Smith via wrote:
|
Re: [PhilosophicalM] Friday Five May 31
David,
How so?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 6/10/2024 1:16 PM, David Smith
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Residents in Western countries are learning the cost of their
governments making that assumption.
On Jun 10, 2024, at 11:27, Celeste wrote:
?
David,
It will never be completely harmonious, but there is usually
consensus.
On 6/9/2024 5:42 PM, David Smith
via groups.io wrote:
The moral consensus in a community will never be
completely harmonious. ?Humans are not mass produced
machines.
On Jun 9, 2024, at 23:02, Celeste wrote:
?
Darrell,
I agree that morality is somewhat subjective. Not
entirely, though, because we are not the only ones in
our world. Morality does involve the others around us
and in our community.
On 6/9/2024 3:32 PM,
Darrell King wrote:
I might argue that morality?is subjective,
Celeste. Personally, for instance, I feel sex
lives are the problems of those living those
lives and I do not care if they bribe people
to cover their dirty laundry. I realize there
is also a question of misuse of power, but
when I hear someone tried to cover up their
sex life with that misuse, it has all the
impact on me of a jaywalking charge. I have
lived through too many real life sexcapades, I
guess.
On Sat, Jun 8,
2024 at 10:04?PM Celeste wrote:
David,
There's nothing morally neutral about covering
up adultery to influence the outcome of a U.S.
election. It is purely morally bad. I also
disagree that law and justice have nothing in
common. They have a lot in common.
On 6/8/2024 1:48 PM, David Smith via wrote:
Whether a thought or an action is judged morally neutral or good or bad is up to one's understanding of morality, which, especially in these angry times, is practically up for grabs. Today, people are likely to believe whatever their information sources tell them is true. As for law, I think we'd agree that law and justice have nothing inherently in common.
Celeste wrote:
? In the case of Trump's hush money scheme he was both morally and legally guilty.
On 6/7/2024 6:50 PM, David Smith via wrote:
|
Re: [Owner] Re: [PhilosophicalM] Frida y F ive J une 7
// ? ? What we are seeing, in my mind, is a battle by some subcultures to assert their collective wills over others through?violence or simply by trespassing?in areas another culture has been in control?of,?such as violating legal?boundaries. Not a new thing, but certainly well-publicized nowadays! My question is whether this situation is actually escalating in an unusual manner or whether it is just being spun that way in the media.? ? //
That touches on the question what passes for reality. ?Among the thousands of things that I accept as true (provisionally but pragmatically), my attitude to only a few is based personal experience. ?We "know" most of what we assume we know only because we were told it was true by people whom we regard as reliable authorities. ?I wonder how many of the people who regularly follow "the news" to learn of what's happening in the world beyond their physical ken believe it. ?I'd guess that most do. ?If that's the case, the news media have the ability to confect reality out of thin air.
?
The almost irresistible illusion that numbers represent facts ensures that people become increasingly convinced that their own fiction is reality. ?- ?Mattias Desmet
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 10, 2024, at 08:21, Darrell King via groups.io <DarrellGKing@...> wrote:
? David: "...If the great majority of Chicagoans were murderers and thieves, making laws there for murdering and stealing would make little sense. "
Darrell: Majority?in numbers or in power? This touches on my recent comment about morality being subjective because it reflects the influences of the local?community on the human behavior of resident--and visiting--people. I might argue that laws of that Chicago prohibiting the interference with allowed homicidal behavior would be possible:?Murder, Inc., being a duly licensed corporation conducting the business of homicide and having paid the appropropriate fees for a permit, is hereby authorized to enact the termination of Darrell according to the guidelines set for in...
In Trump's culture, I suggest that both extramarital affairs and the use of "resolution facilitation payments" were business as usual, both morally and practically. (Probably there are a few other behaviors in that culture which are alien to my own, too!) We argue that his culture is part of our national?one and so in violation of shared laws and norms, but while that is undoubtedly true, it is also not a comprehensive analysis. Significant subcultures across the country differ in these areas from the overarching norms. Gangs, ethnic groups, militant religious organizations and various population cohorts come to mind.
What we are seeing, in my mind, is a battle by some subcultures to assert their collective wills over others through?violence or simply by trespassing?in areas another culture has been in control?of,?such as violating legal?boundaries. Not a new thing, but certainly well-publicized nowadays! My question is whether this situation is actually escalating in an unusual manner or whether it is just being spun that way in the media.
D
// ? Both of these epidemics happened in large part because of drug prohibition.??//
You could argue that two or four ways and be logically correct.? Laws are made, ideally, not for logical reasons but because the great majority feel that they need to be made.? If the great majority of Chicagoans were murderers and thieves, making laws there for murdering and stealing would make little sense.?
?
The almost irresistible illusion that numbers represent facts ensures that people become increasingly convinced that their own fiction is reality. ?- ?Mattias Desmet
? ? <<Well, you must have missed the crack epidemic, but fentanyl is reaching more communities, and we're in for another wild ride, since the government is unwilling or unable to control this one, too.>>
Both of these epidemics happened in large part because of drug prohibition. If it were legal for people to use drugs, they would be able to buy drugs and be guaranteed that they were of a certain potency, and that the drugs were actually what the drugs claimed to be. People don’t have any worries about going blind from methanol, when they buy their liquor at a licensed liquor store with the type of alcohol and the potency of alcohol on the label (or they can get that information from the bartender at a licensed bar.) Neither do people buying cigarettes from a licensed seller, have any concerns that their might be fentanyl or who knows what else, mixed in their cigarette, cigar, or tobacco. How much better it would be, if people could also buy drugs from a licensed business, knowing exactly what they were getting, instead of buying it from an illegal seller who could be giving them anything, and they have no easy way to check. The government can’t “control” this, anymore than they could control alcohol during prohibition—far better option would to legalize drug use, license businesses, require labeling standards. ? Rhonda
|
Re: [PhilosophicalM] Friday Five May 31
Residents in Western countries are learning the cost of their governments making that assumption.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 10, 2024, at 11:27, a1thighmaster via groups.io <thighmaster@...> wrote:
?
David,
It will never be completely harmonious, but there is usually
consensus.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 6/9/2024 5:42 PM, David Smith via
groups.io wrote:
The moral consensus in a community will never be completely
harmonious. ?Humans are not mass produced machines.
On Jun 9, 2024, at 23:02, Celeste wrote:
?
Darrell,
I agree that morality is somewhat subjective. Not entirely,
though, because we are not the only ones in our world.
Morality does involve the others around us and in our
community.
On 6/9/2024 3:32 PM, Darrell King
wrote:
I might argue that morality?is subjective,
Celeste. Personally, for instance, I feel sex lives
are the problems of those living those lives and I
do not care if they bribe people to cover their
dirty laundry. I realize there is also a question of
misuse of power, but when I hear someone tried to
cover up their sex life with that misuse, it has all
the impact on me of a jaywalking charge. I have
lived through too many real life sexcapades, I
guess.
On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at
10:04?PM Celeste wrote:
David,
There's nothing morally neutral about covering up
adultery to influence the outcome of a U.S.
election. It is purely morally bad. I also disagree
that law and justice have nothing in common. They
have a lot in common.
On 6/8/2024 1:48 PM, David Smith via wrote:
Whether a thought or an action is judged morally neutral or good or bad is up to one's understanding of morality, which, especially in these angry times, is practically up for grabs. Today, people are likely to believe whatever their information sources tell them is true. As for law, I think we'd agree that law and justice have nothing inherently in common.
Celeste wrote:
? In the case of Trump's hush money scheme he was both morally and legally guilty.
On 6/7/2024 6:50 PM, David Smith via wrote:
|
Re: Trump is just like Jesus...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 10, 2024, at 12:19, Ed Lomas via groups.io <relomas2@...> wrote:
?...according to Majorie Taylor Greene, in. a speech yesterday here in Nevada:
|
Trump is just like Jesus...
...according to Majorie Taylor Greene, in. a speech yesterday here in Nevada:
|
Re: [PhilosophicalM] Friday Five May 31
David,
It will never be completely harmonious, but there is usually
consensus.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 6/9/2024 5:42 PM, David Smith via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The moral consensus in a community will never be completely
harmonious. ?Humans are not mass produced machines.
On Jun 9, 2024, at 23:02, Celeste wrote:
?
Darrell,
I agree that morality is somewhat subjective. Not entirely,
though, because we are not the only ones in our world.
Morality does involve the others around us and in our
community.
On 6/9/2024 3:32 PM, Darrell King
wrote:
I might argue that morality?is subjective,
Celeste. Personally, for instance, I feel sex lives
are the problems of those living those lives and I
do not care if they bribe people to cover their
dirty laundry. I realize there is also a question of
misuse of power, but when I hear someone tried to
cover up their sex life with that misuse, it has all
the impact on me of a jaywalking charge. I have
lived through too many real life sexcapades, I
guess.
On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at
10:04?PM Celeste wrote:
David,
There's nothing morally neutral about covering up
adultery to influence the outcome of a U.S.
election. It is purely morally bad. I also disagree
that law and justice have nothing in common. They
have a lot in common.
On 6/8/2024 1:48 PM, David Smith via wrote:
Whether a thought or an action is judged morally neutral or good or bad is up to one's understanding of morality, which, especially in these angry times, is practically up for grabs. Today, people are likely to believe whatever their information sources tell them is true. As for law, I think we'd agree that law and justice have nothing inherently in common.
Celeste wrote:
? In the case of Trump's hush money scheme he was both morally and legally guilty.
On 6/7/2024 6:50 PM, David Smith via wrote:
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Re: [Owner] Re: [PhilosophicalM] Frida y F ive J une 7
You and Rhonda make good points, but self-destructive culture can get out of hand, and highly addictive drugs can be viewed as a public health issue, like an epidemic.? Over 100,000 people are dying each year from drug overdoses, and 80% of that is from synthetic opioids. ?(Auto deaths are about 40,000 per year.)
Obesity is a growing public health crisis that is being ignored, and yet there are no restrictions on high-fructose corn syrup or processed foods, so I don't believe that legalizing drugs is going to lead to collective common sense.
Perhaps something like the long, tedious public health campaign against smoking, and restrictions on drug use in public places and firing or ticketing people who drive, go to work, or invade public places while under the influence of drugs might work.
On Monday, June 10, 2024, Darrell King via <DarrellGKing= [email protected]> wrote: David: "...If the great majority of Chicagoans were murderers and thieves, making laws there for murdering and stealing would make little sense. "
Darrell: Majority?in numbers or in power? This touches on my recent comment about morality being subjective because it reflects the influences of the local?community on the human behavior of resident--and visiting--people. I might argue that laws of that Chicago prohibiting the interference with allowed homicidal behavior would be possible:?Murder, Inc., being a duly licensed corporation conducting the business of homicide and having paid the appropropriate fees for a permit, is hereby authorized to enact the termination of Darrell according to the guidelines set for in...
In Trump's culture, I suggest that both extramarital affairs and the use of "resolution facilitation payments" were business as usual, both morally and practically. (Probably there are a few other behaviors in that culture which are alien to my own, too!) We argue that his culture is part of our national?one and so in violation of shared laws and norms, but while that is undoubtedly true, it is also not a comprehensive analysis. Significant subcultures across the country differ in these areas from the overarching norms. Gangs, ethnic groups, militant religious organizations and various population cohorts come to mind.
What we are seeing, in my mind, is a battle by some subcultures to assert their collective wills over others through?violence or simply by trespassing?in areas another culture has been in control?of,?such as violating legal?boundaries. Not a new thing, but certainly well-publicized nowadays! My question is whether this situation is actually escalating in an unusual manner or whether it is just being spun that way in the media.
D
// ? Both of these epidemics happened in large part because of drug prohibition.??//
You could argue that two or four ways and be logically correct.? Laws are made, ideally, not for logical reasons but because the great majority feel that they need to be made.? If the great majority of Chicagoans were murderers and thieves, making laws there for murdering and stealing would make little sense.?
?
The almost irresistible illusion that numbers represent facts ensures that people become increasingly convinced that their own fiction is reality. ?- ?Mattias Desmet
? ? <<Well, you must have missed the crack epidemic, but fentanyl is reaching more communities, and we're in for another wild ride, since the government is unwilling or unable to control this one, too.>>
Both of these epidemics happened in large part because of drug prohibition. If it were legal for people to use drugs, they would be able to buy drugs and be guaranteed that they were of a certain potency, and that the drugs were actually what the drugs claimed to be. People don’t have any worries about going blind from methanol, when they buy their liquor at a licensed liquor store with the type of alcohol and the potency of alcohol on the label (or they can get that information from the bartender at a licensed bar.) Neither do people buying cigarettes from a licensed seller, have any concerns that their might be fentanyl or who knows what else, mixed in their cigarette, cigar, or tobacco. How much better it would be, if people could also buy drugs from a licensed business, knowing exactly what they were getting, instead of buying it from an illegal seller who could be giving them anything, and they have no easy way to check. The government can’t “control” this, anymore than they could control alcohol during prohibition—far better option would to legalize drug use, license businesses, require labeling standards. ? Rhonda
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Re: [Owner] Re: [PhilosophicalM] Frida y F ive J une 7
David: "...If the great majority of Chicagoans were murderers and thieves, making laws there for murdering and stealing would make little sense. "
Darrell: Majority?in numbers or in power? This touches on my recent comment about morality being subjective because it reflects the influences of the local?community on the human behavior of resident--and visiting--people. I might argue that laws of that Chicago prohibiting the interference with allowed homicidal behavior would be possible:?Murder, Inc., being a duly licensed corporation conducting the business of homicide and having paid the appropropriate fees for a permit, is hereby authorized to enact the termination of Darrell according to the guidelines set for in...
In Trump's culture, I suggest that both extramarital affairs and the use of "resolution facilitation payments" were business as usual, both morally and practically. (Probably there are a few other behaviors in that culture which are alien to my own, too!) We argue that his culture is part of our national?one and so in violation of shared laws and norms, but while that is undoubtedly true, it is also not a comprehensive analysis. Significant subcultures across the country differ in these areas from the overarching norms. Gangs, ethnic groups, militant religious organizations and various population cohorts come to mind.
What we are seeing, in my mind, is a battle by some subcultures to assert their collective wills over others through?violence or simply by trespassing?in areas another culture has been in control?of,?such as violating legal?boundaries. Not a new thing, but certainly well-publicized nowadays! My question is whether this situation is actually escalating in an unusual manner or whether it is just being spun that way in the media.
D
// ? Both of these epidemics happened in large part because of drug prohibition.??//
You could argue that two or four ways and be logically correct.? Laws are made, ideally, not for logical reasons but because the great majority feel that they need to be made.? If the great majority of Chicagoans were murderers and thieves, making laws there for murdering and stealing would make little sense.?
?
The almost irresistible illusion that numbers represent facts ensures that people become increasingly convinced that their own fiction is reality. ?- ?Mattias Desmet
? ? <<Well, you must have missed the crack epidemic, but fentanyl is reaching more communities, and we're in for another wild ride, since the government is unwilling or unable to control this one, too.>>
Both of these epidemics happened in large part because of drug prohibition. If it were legal for people to use drugs, they would be able to buy drugs and be guaranteed that they were of a certain potency, and that the drugs were actually what the drugs claimed to be. People don’t have any worries about going blind from methanol, when they buy their liquor at a licensed liquor store with the type of alcohol and the potency of alcohol on the label (or they can get that information from the bartender at a licensed bar.) Neither do people buying cigarettes from a licensed seller, have any concerns that their might be fentanyl or who knows what else, mixed in their cigarette, cigar, or tobacco. How much better it would be, if people could also buy drugs from a licensed business, knowing exactly what they were getting, instead of buying it from an illegal seller who could be giving them anything, and they have no easy way to check. The government can’t “control” this, anymore than they could control alcohol during prohibition—far better option would to legalize drug use, license businesses, require labeling standards. ? Rhonda
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Re: [Owner] Re: [PhilosophicalM] Frida y F ive J une 7
<<You could argue that two or four ways and be logically correct. ?Laws are made, ideally, not for logical reasons but because the great majority feel that they need to be made. ?If the great majority of Chicagoans were murderers and thieves, making laws there for murdering and stealing would make little sense.?>>
Well to be clear, laws are made because *lawmakers* feel there is a need for the law….and their decision for that may or may not be based on what the great majority feel.
And I disagree that laws for murder and stealing would make little sense, if the great majority of St. Louisans were murderers and thieves, there would still be laws against murder and stealing, because murderers and thieves don’t like it when other people steal from them of kill them. The laws may be poorly enforced, or more narrowly defined, but they would still exist. ?(I changed the city, since St. Louis is the #1 city for murder in the US, Chicago isn’t even in the top 10.)
Rhonda
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Re: Frida y F ive J une 7
<<Traffic lights and stop signs and speed limits control drivers' decisions, but if you don't drive they don't affect your life, except that if there is no regulation of traffic the odds are good that your neighbors who do drive will sooner rather than later be injured or killed in traffic. Living in any community necessitates some rules that restrain the freedom of everyone.>>
I 100% agree with you, when we are talking about the public sphere. Just like farm kids don’t need to be old enough for a driver’s license to drive a tractor on private property, yet we all agree they need to be old enough and have a license to drive on public property…..similarly, I have no problem with laws against public use of drugs, but there should be no regulation of drug use on private property.
Rhonda
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Re: [PhilosophicalM] Friday Five May 31
The moral consensus in a community will never be completely harmonious. ?Humans are not mass produced machines.
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On Jun 9, 2024, at 23:02, a1thighmaster via groups.io <thighmaster@...> wrote:
?
Darrell,
I agree that morality is somewhat subjective. Not entirely,
though, because we are not the only ones in our world. Morality
does involve the others around us and in our community.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 6/9/2024 3:32 PM, Darrell King
wrote:
I might argue that morality?is subjective, Celeste.
Personally, for instance, I feel sex lives are the
problems of those living those lives and I do not care if
they bribe people to cover their dirty laundry. I realize
there is also a question of misuse of power, but when I
hear someone tried to cover up their sex life with that
misuse, it has all the impact on me of a jaywalking
charge. I have lived through too many real life
sexcapades, I guess.
On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at
10:04?PM Celeste wrote:
David,
There's nothing morally neutral about covering up adultery
to influence the outcome of a U.S. election. It is purely
morally bad. I also disagree that law and justice have
nothing in common. They have a lot in common.
On 6/8/2024 1:48 PM, David Smith via wrote:
Whether a thought or an action is judged morally neutral or good or bad is up to one's understanding of morality, which, especially in these angry times, is practically up for grabs. Today, people are likely to believe whatever their information sources tell them is true. As for law, I think we'd agree that law and justice have nothing inherently in common.
Celeste wrote:
? In the case of Trump's hush money scheme he was both morally and legally guilty.
On 6/7/2024 6:50 PM, David Smith via wrote:
Laws are likely to be sticks for tripping up people and beating them. The distinction between laws for protecting people from murderers and laws written to dispose of enemies is not always clear. Both exist, which is one reason why the legal system is a nasty thing to be caught up in. Moral innocence and legal guilt are likely to be the same thing.
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David Smith
David Smith
FreedomRocks