Russ tried to skip some important steps like setting setting CWD then power up to do a Cold Start Immediately ?followed by Modeling. ?These steps cannot be overlooked.?
My new Gemini-2 HC went crazy the other night just like so many others have already described . Potential camera CRASH is not appreciated. ? ?
|
The plot thickens? Here are some thoughts ...things to try.
When you use "Warm Boot" , the Gemini uses it's previously stored position information...of its encoders and distances (motor rotations) to get to sky objects .? These remembered values can be (in your case are!) way off.??
If the girls are way off, you must perform a first "Align to Bright Star" to get the Gemini to know it's initial encoder position.? And that first Align can send your mount off into space, as you report.? Below I'll explain what to do.?
I think you wrote that you made some new entries (or revised entries, or Sharpcap made entries...who knows!). Then...you say you did a Warm Start.
I think the Warm Start is the culprit.? Instead try this:
Loosen your clutches, in case you need to grab the scope.? Tell the mount "Park at CWD".? See if it actually goes there and be ready to grab the scope if it goes haywire.? When the Park at CWD stops, put your scope physically at the CWD position.
Then shut off the power.
Then retighten the clutches.
Then boot up and choose Cold Boot!
Verify these are correct in the Gemini:
_____
UTC time must be the correct format.
UTC time must follow this unique format: YYMM.DD HH:MM:SS YY is the year like 21. (we are in 2021) MM is the month. 01 DD is the day in Greenwich England.? It may be a day ahead of your local date.
HH is the 24 hour clock time in Greenwich England, of course.? MM the minute, SS the second.
Get your UTC time from this website for example:
So would be for a UTC time on Jan 13, 2021 at 06:15:25 am you'd take 21 as the last 2 digits from 2021, the 01 is January, ...: 2101.13 06:15:25
For time after noon like 14:00 = 2pm enter like 2101.13 14:15:25
___
Mount type:
When Gemini loses its memory, it also resets it's mount type.? It might default to Titan type.? The different mounts have different gear ratios.? Your pointing will go haywire if your mount type is set wrong.?? ____
Latitude and Longitude
These settings also use an unusual format (unusual for USA users).? There is a dot in the format that appears to be a decimal point.? It is not a decimal point.? Interpret the dot to be like a comma separator.? The format is Degrees.Seconds?
For East of the Greenwich Prime Meridian, Longitudes are entered with a + sign.? For Western longitude like USA, you enter a - sign.? The strange thing is that when Gemini displays the longitude, it shows a W for west (not the - sign you entered!) or an E for East (for a positive Longitude).?? ___
There is a nice way to see these entries if your Gemini is connected to a PC.? You can use the ASCOM Gemini.net applet.?
?When you use this PC applet, you must first click a "Read from Gemini" button in the Applet.??
Use the Advanced Panel and press "Read from Gemini" to see Mount type.? You can then use the Gemini.net Telescope Panel to see the UTC time and Latitude and Longitude.??
Always press the button Read from Gemini, else you are only seeing the PC copy of the values (Yes... the PC has a set of Gemini values it keeps in a local file, and the Gemini unit has its values.? These two sets of values are not automatically synched!? When you change a PC value in Gemini.net, the Gemini unit won't receive it until you press a button "Send to Gemini". )
Now try to Align to Bright Star and see if you are back to normal operation.
? The mount will go back to normal.... normally!??
But on very rare occasions, a Gemini-1 EPROM can lose data, or the SRAM or CPU chips become damaged.? That will cause GoTos or other behavior to go haywire.? I make/reprogram these Eproms, and repair G-1 units.
?If your Gemini-1 always exhibits strange display symbols, either its SRAM chip, or its CPU chip, or its EPROM chip have gone bad.? Send me your unit and I'll evaluate it and repair it.? (I'm in the US, Brendan Smith is in Australia, and David Partridge is in the UK).??
All the best,? Stay well and safe, Michael
Thanks all for the comments, I really appreciate it.?
-? I have not switched the RA/DEC cables since I initially installed the system back in Oct when everything was working correctly.? I did make sure the cable were fully in last night.
-? Time settings and zone is correct for my location in PA; -5 hours.
-? This issue started after I used SharpCap to get a 'perfect' Polar Alignment (that was verified the 2nd night when I reran SharpCap).? I decided to delete my model runs and start new models with an Excellent polar alignment.
-? It was then I decided to do a Cold Start and reentered all my Site Lat/Long/Time into the handheld.? I tripled all the inputed data to make sure it was correct (including the appropriate - signs).
-? Once this data was entered, I changed the handheld to start at warm reset and powered off the system, waited 30 seconds and powered on.? I verified the site and time info still correct.
That is when I tried to slew to Orion (in SE sky) and mount slewed to SW part of sky.
This when I tried the Gemini Software (Which I have used in the past and configured with my site info).? I noticed now that it will not let me input my Site info in the software (either with mount powered on or off).? Not sure what is going on with it.
Brian:? Have not had a chance to read your notes but will look at them today (had cataract surgery yesterday so seeing slightly off right now...lol)
|
Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
I want to add some clarification to this
when polar aligning, the optics are pointing at north pole, so the amount of rotation is pretty minimal
for a widefield optic like the polemaster, tracking on or off may not be that important because there isn't that much rotation in that direction, and you are doing polar alignment in a relatively short time
With Sharpcap, it's the same situation but you are potentially using a much longer focal length (your telescope) and sharpcap is platesolving, so having pinpoint stars is important for accuracy there.?
So overall I'd say tracking on is less important for polemaster, and more important for sharpcap polar align
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 11:17 PM, Paul Homer wrote:
Sonny,
?
I should point out that turning off the mount does not stop the Earth from turning :)
That's true. But my mount, on or off, is riding this mud ball. Just like everybody else's.
?
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
>>>
I changed the handheld to start at warm reset and powered off the system,?
warm restart?
that basically leaves the model in place and assumes you are starting from non-cwd position
it's better at this point if you cold start
Thanks all for the comments, I really appreciate it.?
-? I have not switched the RA/DEC cables since I initially installed the system back in Oct when everything was working correctly.? I did make sure the cable were fully in last night.
-? Time settings and zone is correct for my location in PA; -5 hours.
-? This issue started after I used SharpCap to get a 'perfect' Polar Alignment (that was verified the 2nd night when I reran SharpCap).? I decided to delete my model runs and start new models with an Excellent polar alignment.
-? It was then I decided to do a Cold Start and reentered all my Site Lat/Long/Time into the handheld.? I tripled all the inputed data to make sure it was correct (including the appropriate - signs).
-? Once this data was entered, I changed the handheld to start at warm reset and powered off the system, waited 30 seconds and powered on.? I verified the site and time info still correct.
That is when I tried to slew to Orion (in SE sky) and mount slewed to SW part of sky.
This when I tried the Gemini Software (Which I have used in the past and configured with my site info).? I noticed now that it will not let me input my Site info in the software (either with mount powered on or off).? Not sure what is going on with it.
Brian:? Have not had a chance to read your notes but will look at them today (had cataract surgery yesterday so seeing slightly off right now...lol)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Thanks all for the comments, I really appreciate it.?
-? I have not switched the RA/DEC cables since I initially installed the system back in Oct when everything was working correctly.? I did make sure the cable were fully in last night.
-? Time settings and zone is correct for my location in PA; -5 hours.
-? This issue started after I used SharpCap to get a 'perfect' Polar Alignment (that was verified the 2nd night when I reran SharpCap).? I decided to delete my model runs and start new models with an Excellent polar alignment.
-? It was then I decided to do a Cold Start and then reentered all my Site Lat/Long/Time into the handheld.??
-? Once this data was entered, I changed the handheld to start at warm reset and powered off the system, waited 30 seconds and powered on.? I verified the site and time info still correct including the appropriate - signs.
That is when I tried to slew to Orion (in SE sky) and mount slewed to SW part of sky.
This when I tried the Gemini Software (Which I have used in the past and configured with my site info).? I noticed now that it will not let me input my Site info in the software (either with mount powered on or off).? Not sure what is going on with it.
Brian:? Have not had a chance to read your notes but will look at them today (had cataract surgery yesterday so seeing slightly off right now...lol)
|
Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 11:17 PM, Paul Homer wrote:
Sonny,
?
I should point out that turning off the mount does not stop the Earth from turning :)
That's true. But my mount, on or off, is riding this mud ball. Just like everybody else's. ? -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
Note that the QHY Polemaster manual states: “7.When using the PoleMaster, is it necessary to stop RA tracking? No. It is best to keep tracking on when using PoleMaster.” ? Joe ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Stu Beaber Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 9:04 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] G11G and Polar Alignment ? I use polemaster and I don't even turn the mount on til after I polar align. For rotation I just grab the counter weight shaft and move it about 30 degrees...or close...it works fine at about 20 degrees... then move it back to the counter weight down position by hand. Once aligned then I turn the Gemini on...works great. Since I've been using Polemaster my guiding is "spot on"! ? On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 7:58 PM Michael Herman <mherman346@...> wrote: That's ...interesting. ? I mean that Sharpcap should care to tell you specifically to turn off tracking (they can't really mean to turn the whole mount off, can they?), whereas Polemaster does not mind if your mount is on or off.?? During Polemaster operation: I leave my mount tracking sidereal rate , then I use my RA motor to rotate the RA axis when instructed by its software.? ? These astronomy related puzzles keep coming like the daily Soduko.? Some days are tougher than others! ? I Polar Align with my GM811G off. Otherwise, if mine is on, my RA is tracking. (Moving, rotating.)
Plus, Polar Alignment is a mechanical function of Polar Aligning the mount to the North Celestial Pole. Which does not move.
The actual aligning is the Alt-Az planes.
Polaris rotates around the NCP.
But, by all means do it your way. If it works, Don't Fix It.
What I'm doing is working, or so my results are telling me.
Clear night tonight! Yeah!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
Sonny,
I should point out that turning off the mount does not stop the Earth from turning :)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I Polar Align with my GM811G off. Otherwise, if mine is on, my RA is tracking. (Moving, rotating.)
Plus, Polar Alignment is a mechanical function of Polar Aligning the mount to the North Celestial Pole. Which does not move.
The actual aligning is the Alt-Az planes.
Polaris rotates around the NCP.
But, by all means do it your way. If it works, Don't Fix It.
What I'm doing is working, or so my results are telling me.
Clear night tonight! Yeah!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Add timezone .... except for mount type/gear ratios all this is fixed when a GPS or SkySafari/SkyFi is attached to the Gemini-2 but this is a good topic to print out and keep in my Losmandy binder. ? ? ??
|
Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
I use polemaster and I don't even turn the mount on til after I polar align. For rotation I just grab the counter weight shaft and move it about 30 degrees...or close...it works fine at about 20 degrees... then move it back to the counter weight down position by hand. Once aligned then I turn the Gemini on...works great. Since I've been using Polemaster my guiding is "spot on"!
Stu
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 7:58 PM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: That's ...interesting. I mean that Sharpcap should care to tell you specifically to turn off tracking (they can't really mean to turn the whole mount off, can they?), whereas Polemaster does not mind if your mount is on or off.??
During Polemaster operation:
I leave my mount tracking sidereal rate , then I use my RA motor to rotate the RA axis when instructed by its software.? ?
Have fun,
These astronomy related puzzles keep coming like the daily Soduko.? Some days are tougher than others!
Best,
Michael
I Polar Align with my GM811G off. Otherwise, if mine is on, my RA is tracking. (Moving, rotating.)
Plus, Polar Alignment is a mechanical function of Polar Aligning the mount to the North Celestial Pole. Which does not move.
The actual aligning is the Alt-Az planes.
Polaris rotates around the NCP.
But, by all means do it your way. If it works, Don't Fix It.
What I'm doing is working, or so my results are telling me.
Clear night tonight! Yeah!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
That's ...interesting. I mean that Sharpcap should care to tell you specifically to turn off tracking (they can't really mean to turn the whole mount off, can they?), whereas Polemaster does not mind if your mount is on or off.??
During Polemaster operation:
I leave my mount tracking sidereal rate , then I use my RA motor to rotate the RA axis when instructed by its software.? ?
Have fun,
These astronomy related puzzles keep coming like the daily Soduko.? Some days are tougher than others!
Best,
Michael
I Polar Align with my GM811G off. Otherwise, if mine is on, my RA is tracking. (Moving, rotating.)
Plus, Polar Alignment is a mechanical function of Polar Aligning the mount to the North Celestial Pole. Which does not move.
The actual aligning is the Alt-Az planes.
Polaris rotates around the NCP.
But, by all means do it your way. If it works, Don't Fix It.
What I'm doing is working, or so my results are telling me.
Clear night tonight! Yeah!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
I Polar Align with my GM811G off. Otherwise, if mine is on, my RA is tracking. (Moving, rotating.)
Plus, Polar Alignment is a mechanical function of Polar Aligning the mount to the North Celestial Pole. Which does not move.
The actual aligning is the Alt-Az planes.
Polaris rotates around the NCP.
But, by all means do it your way. If it works, Don't Fix It.
What I'm doing is working, or so my results are telling me.
Clear night tonight! Yeah!
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Swapped DEC and RA motor cables can ruin your day …
|
Russ,
When I have have experienced issues like this there are two basic things to try. First replace the coin battery in the Gemini Unit. You're probably in the Northern Hemisphere where it's winter and the cold might be putting a strain on the battery which could be affecting stored information or the internal clock. Secondly, if things are that messed up you may want to go to the Hand Controller and find the Reset to Factory Defaults option. Then start entering everything from the beginning. I have had my alignment model wrecked by syncing on the wrong star, and it only gets worse from there. Just doing a Cold Start may not purge all incorrect data entries.
I'm sure this group will give you enough info to get you going again.
Good luck.
John
|
Russ,
Assuming you are cold starting in the CWD position you may have a time issue between local time and UT.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 20 Jan 2021, at 11:43:19 am, Russ via < njrusty@...> wrote:
Confused here.? After entering Site Lat, Long and Time, I would expect any mount to at least slew to an area of the sky 'near' the target first (I did complete an excellent polar alignment last night, prior to Cold Start tonight).? Are you saying that even though the mount is like 90 degrees away from target, I still need to manual slew to target and start modeling from there?????
|
Russ,
Is you mount in the telescope CWD position when you do a cold start?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 20 Jan 2021, at 11:25:38 am, Russ via < njrusty@...> wrote:
I am so damn furious with my mount right now!!? I had to do a cold restart and verified my site info; Lat, Long and time.? Rebooted Mount and verify settings are saved and correct.
1)? I tell the mount to go to Betelgeuse (which is in the SouthEast sky right now).? But the mount slews to SouthWest; which of course is way off.? Shouldn't it be much closer then this????
2)? When I then go to the Gemini Software and try to enter my LAT/LONG, it will not allow me to enter any numbers.? What the HELL???
3)? When I exit the Gemini Software and look at my hand controller, the Site information is all zeroed out!!
I am beyond furious that after 2 weeks of crap skies, the first night of clear skies I run into this crap!!!
Any help will be appreciated!!!!
|
I know this sounds crazy, but check that you do not have the RA and Dec cables switched. ?I have done this. ?More than once.?
Check your time zone. ?I found that setting the time zone to 00, and the time to Greenwich time cleared up issues with daylight savings, etc.. ? that is recommended by the Gemini II website.
jmd
|
Thanks Brian.? I have a cheat sheet created identifying exactly those checks and I verified a number of time all setting are correct (via handheld).? Going back outside again and starting all over.? I compared my cheat sheet to your comments above and verified I have those exact settings.
|
Hi Russ
Sorry to hear this, that sounds super frustrating
It's definitely sounding like a setting somewhere, so here are some ideas:
First, I recommend using the hand controller to enter your settings, just to eliminate one variable
If your mount is slewing exactly 90 degrees opposite it may be you have the wrong mount type selected? double-check that under Menu->Mount->Type
. I've also recently had a couple customers with similar issues thinking they had a G11 when they had a GM811
Also confirm you have the correct gearing?under Menu->Mount->Gearing and compare to this table:
Otherwise the site/time/location are often culprits, use the address tool to get accurate info: ??
some typical errors include: not putting negative sign "-" in front of the longitude (if you are in US) wrong timezone offset(needs to account for daylight savings too, right now pacific time is -8, eastern is -5) using decimal instead of HH:MM when entering time info not using 24 hour time format
Confused here.? After entering Site Lat, Long and Time, I would expect any mount to at least slew to an area of the sky 'near' the target first (I did complete an excellent polar alignment last night, prior to Cold Start tonight).? Are you saying that even though the mount is like 90 degrees away from target, I still need to manual slew to target and start modeling from there?????
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Confused here.? After entering Site Lat, Long and Time, I would expect any mount to at least slew to an area of the sky 'near' the target first (I did complete an excellent polar alignment last night, prior to Cold Start tonight).? Are you saying that even though the mount is like 90 degrees away from target, I still need to manual slew to target and start modeling from there?????
|
Bill P.
Michael Herman
David C. Partridge