Russ
wrote..
?
1. When you restart
the?mount, you always?restart from CWD position, correct?? I always park the mount at CWD whenever I finish for
the night.??
?
2. Did you do a warm start or a warm restart?? ?Since I am in an observatory, I always do a Warm Restart to start off my nights
activities (keeps modeling and site data).
?
***
This
is what I used to do also, until this week when were (ok I) was informed this
is not correct.. A Warm Restart is for a mount parked at a non CWD position and
¡°we¡± are supposed to use Warm Start, which keeps the site and model vs a Cold
start that doesn¡¯t and also starts from a CWD.. Again, this was ¡°news to me¡±,
but I am all ready to Warm Start next time I power up the mount (which ain¡¯t
happening anytime soon, but that¡¯s another story..)
?
Derek
?
?
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Russ via groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021
11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io]
Mount HELP!!
?
1. When you restart
the?mount, you always?restart from CWD position, correct?? I always park the mount at CWD whenever I finish for the
night.??
2. Did you do a warm start or a warm restart?? ?Since I am in an observatory, I always do a Warm Restart
to start off my nights activities (keeps modeling and site data).
3. Can you check your model terms and maybe snag a screen capture or write it
down? Curious what that looks like. You can view them from HC main screen:
Menu->Align->Model? ?I
will get a screen capture tonight/tomorrow and upload here.
Thanks for everyones help!!!
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Understanding a GM8 for Possible Purchase
Hi all.?
I¡¯m on the waiting list for a GM-8G, and a used opportunity has come my way. ?The mount was made pre-2011, had Gemini-1 and has been upgraded to Gemini-2. ?It¡¯s also been upgraded to OPWBs but they are not spring-loaded. ?Current owner does not know which motors are on the mount but says it slews as fast as any GOTO he¡¯s used. ?I¡¯ve attached a couple of pictures. ?It appears to have been well-maintained
I have three questions: ?
1. ?Can you tell which motors these are??
2. ?What material function and convenience would I give up choosing this mount over a new one? ?(I see these are not tucked-in motors and appreciate I¡¯ll need to watch for snags and bumps, and be extra careful moving the mount.)
3. ?Beyond the details of its features and what the seller knows about maintenance, what else should I be asking?
Thanks for your advice!
Jeff
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Russ,
A cold start does not require you to reenter all the settings only the model (optionally needs to be updated).
If you are losing settings, such as the site or time then you need to replace the internal battery.
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On 23 Jan 2021, at 2:42:53 am, Russ via < njrusty@...> wrote:
I should have noted that my system is in my ROR observatory.?
Summary: After my Polar Alignment with SharpCap, I decided to redo all my modeling thinking this would be a good idea after I nailed down my polar alignment.? I parked my system at CWD (bubbles leveled).? It was at this time I did the Cold Start (to erase everything in memory).? Once the system booted, I entered all my site info and then rebooted the system using Warm Restart (Since my system is in a fixed observatory).? I then tried to slew to Orion and that is when I noticed the slew was way off, and all my problems continued.
Update:? Last night was a clear night so I started all over again.? However; this time, after the data was entered and a Warm Restart was conducted, I told the system to slew to M42 and it slewed to almost dead on.? I then did the CWD park and initiated a model run using 5 stars each (East/West).? System appears to be running normal again.
Not sure why last night was different since the original problem earlier this week, I repeated the same steps as yesterday and still had the issues.? Really weird but as of right now, system is good and I don't think I will ever do another Cold Start again....LOL.
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On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 12:07 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
in short, Murphy's Law likes?astronomy.? Plenty of things to go wrong at the worst possible time...
?
Stay well,
Michael
Yep. Like your first clear night in a couple of months. Or so it goes for me.... it seems. Almost into brush growing season here. Last year it was about 6-7 weeks long. Then of course, Brush? Fire?Season started and the smoke blocked the skies. I use to go fishing.... ? -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen)
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That is one of the main reasons I purchased the extension when I bought my G11G!
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Hi Russ, and all,
Hopefully not beating a dead horse...
To answer your question, when you are polar aligned, you?are polar aligned when at CWD. You?are also polar aligned at all other RA rotations too.
When you are polar aligned your?mount is aimed at NCP. If your mount were aimed directly at Polaris, you would be about 0.7 degree of arc off of NCP.
The Earth's rotation axis is moving slowly.... and Polaris itself and the Sun are moving relative to each other too.? Polaris is close enough to Earth ...about 330 light years (distance estimates vary too).? From Stellarium program calculations, Polaris appears to be moving closer to the actual NCP North Celestial Pole position.?? The movement of Polaris apparent distance from NCP was why the optical polar alignment scope needs a new glass reticule?produced every 10 years... to put the NCP position on the glass at the newer position of Polaris.
Today, Stellarium reports for Polaris this data: RA of Polaris using J2000:? 89deg 15 min 51.5 sec? ? so it was off by ~44.9 arc minutes in year 2000 RA of Polaris today's date: 89 deg 21 min 14.7 sec? ?so it is off by ~39.75 arc minutes today. ? For reference, the diameter of the full moon is about 30 arc minutes (varies with moon distance from Earth).? ?
(You can have fun with Stellarium... running the clock forward, Polaris gets as close as 89 deg, 31 min, 52.9 sec on Sept 23, 2086. ?That seems to be about the closest Stellarium predicts Polaris will be to NCP...about 28 arc minutes away from NCP, or about 1 full moon diameter away from NCP.?? ?Just wait 45 more years! )
This is also why the PoleMaster software uses many stars around Polaris to identify the correct location of NCP.? You?can't count on Polaris alone!
If you bump your tripod, or have an earthquake (a West Coast specialty), then... your mount might be again off of polar alignment.
Also be sure to check your tripod leg adjustment bolts.? I found one of my tripod legs slowly creeping shorter over time.? That mount is quite overloaded in weight, but I thought the legs would not slip... And check your AZ lock down bolts.? (There is a central bolt under the center of the mount head, where the mount top rotates around when you adjust AZ. )
in short, Murphy's Law likes?astronomy.? Plenty of things to go wrong at the worst possible time...
Stay well, Michael
Going to do some tests tonight with SharpCap and its Polar Alignment tool.? Just to be clear, when my G11G is at CWD (bubbles leveled) the scope should be polar aligned with the NCP.? Correct??
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Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
On 1/22/2021 1:20 PM, Chip Louie wrote: I have used the PoleMaster software with the mount powered on and off and can't see any difference in accuracy. Possibly because the PM software is a bit forgiving. But I swear that SharpCap's PAs are better. As long as the mount's altitude and/or azimuth does not change unexpectedly I see no way that having tracking running or disabled would affect anything that Polemaster uses to calculate the NCP. Until you are asked to adjust alt and az, all it is doing is rotationally matching the alignment stars to a template and then finding the center of rotation after a slew. Center of rotation calculation doesn't care if the mount is tracking or not because the star positions are recorded at the single instant when you click the box. FWIW, I don't even bother with finding center of rotation each session. I just use the previously calculated center of rotation unless I know I have disturbed the camera or mount adapter. Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com
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1. When you restart the?mount, you always?restart from CWD position, correct?? I always park the mount at CWD whenever I finish for the night.??
2. Did you do a warm start or a warm restart?? ?Since I am in an observatory, I always do a Warm Restart to start off my nights activities (keeps modeling and site data).
3. Can you check your model terms and maybe snag a screen capture or write it down? Curious what that looks like. You can view them from HC main screen: Menu->Align->Model? ?I will get a screen capture tonight/tomorrow and upload here.
Thanks for everyones help!!!
|
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 05:49 PM, Russ wrote:
Thanks for the info.? I was able to get a break in the clouds tonight and using SharpCap and it Polar Alignment tool, adjust my PA to obtain excellent results and it only took a few minutes.? Will verify these results in a few days when it actually does get clear later this week.? Will do some drift alignment and other tests to see just how well the PA actually is.
I've literally spend many, many nights doing drift alignment due to the fact I can barely see Polaris due to the slope of my observatory roof getting in way.? Luckily with SharpCap, I only need to get close to obtain the initial image before I rotate the G11G, 90 degrees for secondary image.? If this indeed does work great, I will be thrilled!!!!!
Now if I can only fix my ROR issue, I will be set.? Roof seems to be 'twisting' during its opening/closing now.? May have to brace it using 2x4s and X pattern inside roof.
Can you put the Losmandy 4" pier extension under the mount and get a better shot at the NCP and surrounding stars?? ? -- Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
I have used the PoleMaster software with the mount powered on and off and can't see any difference in accuracy. Possibly because the PM software is a bit forgiving. But I swear that SharpCap's PAs are better.?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
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Hmm,
IME about 99.99% of cases like this when mysterious errors happen to a solo operator working from routine and memory where a system returns to normal functioning at some point later operator error is involved. This is why they invented run books and check lists.?My process is likely very different than yours being a portable user but you could document your startup procedure and keep it in the observatory for situations like this. Just saying I've been there and a run book resolves all procedural issues having to do with loose nuts and such leaving only true hardware/system errors when failures like these occur.? ??
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
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Hi Jim!!!
Yes!
I'm caught red handed!? ?
Yes.... Degrees.Minutes
On to make Rev 1!!!!!
Good thing I apologized in advance!
Very best to all, Michael
Michael, in your post, and thank your for it, you said:
Latitude and Longitude
?
These settings also use an unusual format (unusual for USA users).? There is a dot in the format that appears to be a decimal point.? It is not a decimal point.? Interpret the dot to be like a comma separator.? The format is Degrees.Seconds
Shouldn't that be Degrees.Minutes???
JIm
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Hi Russ
thanks for keeping us all up to date
Three quick things
1. When you restart the?mount, you always?restart from CWD position, correct?
2. Did you do a warm start or a warm restart??
3. Can you check your model terms and maybe snag a screen capture or write it down? Curious what that looks like. You can view them from HC main screen: Menu->Align->Model
If anything changes in the future, those model terms would be helpful to record and let us know
Brian
I should have noted that my system is in my ROR observatory.?
Summary: After my Polar Alignment with SharpCap, I decided to redo all my modeling thinking this would be a good idea after I nailed down my polar alignment.? I parked my system at CWD (bubbles leveled).? It was at this time I did the Cold Start (to erase everything in memory).? Once the system booted, I entered all my site info and then rebooted the system using Warm Restart (Since my system is in a fixed observatory).? I then tried to slew to Orion and that is when I noticed the slew was way off, and all my problems continued.
Update:? Last night was a clear night so I started all over again.? However; this time, after the data was entered and a Warm Restart was conducted, I told the system to slew to M42 and it slewed to almost dead on.? I then did the CWD park and initiated a model run using 5 stars each (East/West).? System appears to be running normal again.
Not sure why last night was different since the original problem earlier this week, I repeated the same steps as yesterday and still had the issues.? Really weird but as of right now, system is good and I don't think I will ever do another Cold Start again....LOL.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Michael, in your post, and thank your for it, you said:
Latitude and Longitude
?
These settings also use an unusual format (unusual for USA users).? There is a dot in the format that appears to be a decimal point.? It is not a decimal point.? Interpret the dot to be like a comma separator.? The format is Degrees.Seconds
Shouldn't that be Degrees.Minutes???
JIm
|
I should have noted that my system is in my ROR observatory.?
Summary: After my Polar Alignment with SharpCap, I decided to redo all my modeling thinking this would be a good idea after I nailed down my polar alignment.? I parked my system at CWD (bubbles leveled).? It was at this time I did the Cold Start (to erase everything in memory).? Once the system booted, I entered all my site info and then rebooted the system using Warm Restart (Since my system is in a fixed observatory).? I then tried to slew to Orion and that is when I noticed the slew was way off, and all my problems continued.
Update:? Last night was a clear night so I started all over again.? However; this time, after the data was entered and a Warm Restart was conducted, I told the system to slew to M42 and it slewed to almost dead on.? I then did the CWD park and initiated a model run using 5 stars each (East/West).? System appears to be running normal again.
Not sure why last night was different since the original problem earlier this week, I repeated the same steps as yesterday and still had the issues.? Really weird but as of right now, system is good and I don't think I will ever do another Cold Start again....LOL.
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Marc,
That's incredible!? I love to see shots from the southern hemisphere.?
Matt
Thanks Brian. Here's another field I did on Carina last Tuesday (34x300s). Packed up now the moon is up and temperature is getting in the low 40c until mid next week.
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On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 10:29 AM, bbillp wrote:
Potential camera CRASH is not appreciated. ?
That made me LOL, Bill. Potential crash is there anytime we start our car, too. ;^) All, I always cold start. Because I always dismantle my mount and bring it in. I have never settled for night to night carry over of yesterdays settings. To say the least, the Earth we live on has moved around the Sun since yesterday. So in view of that, I like to Polar Align fresh, then cold start and do a fresh Modeling build. (Usually a 12 star Model) Since getting SharpCap to work with my Atik Infiniky camera, and doing my elongated Model build, I've been getting some very satisfying bullseyes on my slewing through Stellarium. If I don't, it's usually because I bumped the PA off. I used to check all the settings, every time. But now, eh, as above. Every night is a new night for me. 8^) ? -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Thanks Brian. Here's another field I did on Carina last Tuesday (34x300s). Packed up now the moon is up and temperature is getting in the low 40c until mid next week.
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Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
>>>
I did have it on once, and I got no warning from SharpCap that my mount couldn't be found, so that nag screen was nice to pass on.
It won't complain
given your relatively widefield telescope, it probably won't make a difference for you. i'm talking more in the 1000mm+ range of focal length
Good to know Brian.
Since I love to tinker, and "Push buttons to see what happens", I'm going to start trying with my mount on during Polar Alignment.
I did have it on once, and I got no warning from SharpCap that my mount couldn't be found, so that nag screen was nice to pass on.
But... I expect to see a wash. Because I use a wide field telescope, and do Deep Space Imaging.
My understanding is we are trying to get the RA axis aimed at the North Celestial Pole. That imaginary pivot point of zero movement in space.
Maybe with the mount ON, it will solve even faster than what I'm seeing now.
But I think it will be interesting to try. I know it is working with my mount off. So maybe I can slide because of my 80 mm telescope.
But Ima gonna try both. ;^)
(Of course, we are going into Brush Growing Season, so clouds and rain. :^(? )
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
Good to know Brian.
Since I love to tinker, and "Push buttons to see what happens", I'm going to start trying with my mount on during Polar Alignment.
I did have it on once, and I got no warning from SharpCap that my mount couldn't be found, so that nag screen was nice to pass on.
But... I expect to see a wash. Because I use a wide field telescope, and do Deep Space Imaging.
My understanding is we are trying to get the RA axis aimed at the North Celestial Pole. That imaginary pivot point of zero movement in space.
Maybe with the mount ON, it will solve even faster than what I'm seeing now.
But I think it will be interesting to try. I know it is working with my mount off. So maybe I can slide because of my 80 mm telescope.
But Ima gonna try both. ;^)
(Of course, we are going into Brush Growing Season, so clouds and rain. :^(? )
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
Michael Herman
Chip Louie
