I'm looking the table. Thanks David! Luis
I¡¯m pretty certain that all you need to do it to use a custom mount type and set the DEC axis as if it were a regular G11 with a value of 360, but the RA axis as if it were a Titan with a value of -270. ? You can probably start by selecting a g11 and then adjust the gear ration for the RA axis. ? Data from but the numberas are also valid for the G-1 ? David ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Barneo
Sent: 25 May 2020 10:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] G1GT ? Louie, Thanks for your fast and effective response. But has anyone? G11T with this instrumental weight (66 lbs)? I use Gemini?1 L4, how I choose the mount type, because there is not the G11T option? ? El dom., 24 may. 2020 a las 21:18, Chip Louie (<chiplouie@...>) escribi¨®: Luis,
This situation is why the G11T and the TRA-Axis exist, just to boost your G11 up to a 75 pounds imaging payload.?
?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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I¡¯m pretty certain that all you need to do it to use a custom mount type and set the DEC axis as if it were a regular G11 with a value of 360, but the RA axis as if it were a Titan with a value of -270. ? You can probably start by selecting a g11 and then adjust the gear ration for the RA axis. ? Data from but the numberas are also valid for the G-1 ? David ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Luis Barneo
Sent: 25 May 2020 10:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] G1GT ? Louie, Thanks for your fast and effective response. But has anyone? G11T with this instrumental weight (66 lbs)? I use Gemini?1 L4, how I choose the mount type, because there is not the G11T option? ? El dom., 24 may. 2020 a las 21:18, Chip Louie (<chiplouie@...>) escribi¨®: Luis,
This situation is why the G11T and the TRA-Axis exist, just to boost your G11 up to a 75 pounds imaging payload.?
?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
Louie, Thanks for your fast and effective response. But has anyone? G11T with this instrumental weight (66 lbs)? I use Gemini?1 L4, how I choose the mount type, because there is not the G11T option?
Luis
El dom., 24 may. 2020 a las 21:18, Chip Louie (< chiplouie@...>) escribi¨®: Luis,
This situation is why the G11T and the TRA-Axis exist, just to boost your G11 up to a 75 pounds imaging payload.?
?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: Cold Start unresponsive
Dear Brendan,
I deeply appreciate your going to all this trouble, especially since you're doing so from a hospital bed. I wish you a swift recovery.
Thanks, again.
Sincerely,
Erik
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Re: Cold Start unresponsive
It¡¯s hard to explain ?but the boot process shows a logo screen ( a pretty Gemini 2 logo and credits) then pauses for a short time at ?¡°a blue screen¡± which states ?¡°touch to calibrate¡±. ?
This should have shown up on first use. ?This ¡°Blue ?LCD Calalibration,BLC¡±) screen is only there for a second or so on boot. By pressing the screen it enters the system into a LCD calibration routine to make ¡°stylus or finger touch¡± more accurate.?
If this is not done, ?you¡¯re ?screen presses could be interpreted as something completely different to what you intended ? It¡¯s wits a simple thing to do and once done should be ok unless you have dust issues (dust gets caught at screen edge on HC housing rubber gasket causing wild screen presses) or updates ?
?
showing how to do it.?
Here is what the BLC Screen looks like:
it¡¯s a simple process ? ? . sometimes it¡¯s called ¡°screen alignment¡±. Here is the video showing the HC Boot logo screen and blue calibration screen .....but ...in this the user does not touch the blue screen to enter ¡°calibration¡±. I wish they did to show you. ? Once you have done it you will say ¡°D¡¯oh¡± I understand now!
I cannot help much more atm still in hospital (again) ?and for awhile. ?We need a video showing someone doing this BLC process ....
Brian...new video needed?
--
Brendan
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Re: Maybe, I should not blame my mount for it ?
Hi Sebastian,
I'll go out in a limb and start sawing.
When I run across these sorts of posts, my first thought is: "Are you moving around by your mount/telescope at all during the imagining?"
My personal experiences drove me indoors to remove my vibrations from being imposed on my images. I looked through your examples, and found inconsistencies that enforced my question.
No mount, and no telescope on a mount, can compensate for human imposed ground vibrations.
Further, I see you are talking about DSLR's. Those can impose their own problematic vibrations due to their nature of the moving parts. So because I was wearing out my DSLR camera fast enough taking Soccer pictures of the Grand-kids, I opted for an Astro Camera at my onset to this vain of insanity.
As I worked through your examples, I found out there in the 5 minute (300s) range things stabilized. I commend your guiding and tracking, and I see no problem there. You are doing great! So I think (IMHO) what you may be seeing in the other images amounts to vibrations induced by A. Human vibrations. or B. DSLR Camera induced vibrations.
Food for thought.?
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Maybe, I should not blame my mount for it ?
Sebastian:
A couple things come to mind.
If you are seeing aberrations at very short exposures, it is more than likely something in the optics. At 5 seconds there is very little movement in the mount. You may just want to try some 5 second exposures with the mount turned off, or tracking stopped.? If the artifacts are still there, that should tell you if it's mount or not. With longer exposures, your stars should streak all in one direction, the RA direction mostly. But they should not be egg shaped.
You may wish to try turning individual components 90 degrees where possible: camera, focal reducer, etc. and even the scope within the rings. You may be able to see which parts will move the direction of your elongations. If you turn your whole setup 90 degrees within the rings and the elongation changes 90 degrees too, it is your optics for sure. Refractors can be out of collimation too, perhaps there is a pinched lens somewhere. Also choosing an object, aka a galaxy, where you can see image rotation easily, will prove better than a globular cluster where all is sort of roundish.
Hope the above give you some options to try.
John
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Re: 2 questions for you: Guiding as the next Losmandy Zoom Meetup topic
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 06:22 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
1, how would describe your current guiding?
- are you not able to guide, and looking for basic setup
- you are guiding, but you have poor results
- you are guiding, but not sure your results are good (or good enough)
- guiding just fine, but looking for added tips
?
2. what is it you hope to get out of this session?
1. My guiding seems to be excellent to me, and my needs. But I'm always interested in trying to learn more, or gather tips from others. Numbers and logs don't do a lot for me. But I can usually learn something from sitting in. 2. Maybe a few tips and tricks I don't already know, or to gather some knowledge I missed along my way. I would like to request more attention be paid to the chat feature of these sessions. Not being on video, I felt the chat fed questions were overlooked. If I may, I did find two PHD videos that got me up and running when I was trying to get a grip on PHD. After going through the 2 of them, and dialing in the settings initially, I was up and running. Push Here Dummy is not nearly as simple as many would be lead to believe. So I have shared the video's that helped me numerous times over the years, with appreciative feedback often. ?PHD Basics Part #1??https://youtu.be/PRY2jN3xTBQ ?PHD Basics Part #2?? After these, I was able to twiddle and tweak in settings that worked great for me, and my long exposure Astro Imaging. I transitioned from my first mount (A real POS) to my GM811G seamlessly. My Losmandy mount works rock solid for me.
?
? -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: How is the belleville washer solution working?
Dear Anthony,
Wow...let me clear up about those pictures you show ...?
I made a mistake in my first PDF write-up...that Belleville washer you show in the picture should be flipped over:
You want the outside of the bearing to be pushed outward toward the worm.? Then the inner rotating part if the bearing just holds the worm.??
At the time I wrote that first PDF, I wrote that I was unsure of the best approach in placing that cup shaped spring. Now I am sure... Here is a later version of the PDF.? Also note: I tried 2 Belleville washers, but they won't fit because it leaves no adjustment room for the far block to go inward toward the ring gear, and the worm won't go inward far enough. So only use 1 Belleville washer....in both RA and DEC to eliminate hysteresis and autoguiding problems.? ??
Other things to consider:
The G11 has R4 size bearings holding the worm at both ends, with balls that roll in precision races.? The lengths of the metal parts are affected by temperature.? Even if the worm is tightly confined at one temperature when you set it, it still can loosen at high or low outdoor temperatures.? I think it is impossible to keep the worm confined forever purely by tightening down the stock worm blocks once...it needs a mechanical system that keeps the bearings in their place at all time and temperatures.? Temperature and time will loosen the worm up along it's axis as it's designed. It's why the beautifully designed Ovision worm block put in a Belleville washer to begin this whole idea.
Many people also think that if the worm is loaded by an imbalance to East or West, this solves the worm bearing problem.? It has partly, but not fully: an imbalance would compress only one of the two bearings. The bearing not compressed would be free to have it's balls loose in their race. Again this makes the worm loose at that bearing point.? ?
?Another argument for unbalancing the East/West direction is that an imbalance would keep only one side of the worm thread engages the ring gear.? That sounds useful.? But if the worm is being pressed into the ring (by say a Spring loaded Worm mechanism) then an imbalanced East/ West load will not help...the worm thread center is always pushed into the ring gear teeth center.
If you don't put in a spring washer, which side should you imbalance?? If the worm is pulled away from the Oldham coupler by an imbalance, then the coupler parts be loose and it also loosens the output shaft of the plastic gearbox.? (The metal McLennan gearbox drive shaft does not move in or out like the plastic stock one does). You ideally want the Oldham coupler parts tight together, and the gearbox shaft has to be pushed in slightly to get the plastic body to hold it's drive shaft in place.? So again it helps to have a force inside the outside block, pushing it's bearing and the worm closer toward the coupler and the gearbox.
Some mounts like the Orion Atlas have roller and ball bearing type bearings in them.? Orion loads their Atlas worm bearings with a screw mechanism. So did the older Meade LXD55.? The point is: the worm bearings should be pre-loaded.??
So if you add in a Belleville? washer, it's spring action always keeps the worm ball bearings in their races properly.? That is...if the bearing can slide in it's sleeve.? But it won't slide in it's sleeve as Losmandy designed it because the sleeve is a tight fit, and the bearing is pressed into it.? So you'd have to reduce the OD of the bearing and lube it to slide.? This is the only real work involved in adding a Belleville spring washer.??
Hope these long notes and ideas help you all optimize your mounts for your pleasure.??
As for me...I'm trying to get better images of the nice very bright supernova in M61.? I think since that light took 52 million years to get here, I should at least spend a few days trying to catch it.? All this effort on mount perfection is for our enjoyment.
Also to keep this stuff in perspective, we are all vulnerable to the virus attack.? So keep up your health and ...get some sleep?!
Very best, Michael
On Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:59 PM Anthony Q < anthony@...> wrote: There have been a few people here who have testified that the belleville washer solution helps with reducing PE, but I am still trying to understand how that would be the case.
In Michael Herman's write up, (hoping you'll chime in Michael?), he foirst shows that the worm blocks can't be adjusted to eliminate lateral play in the worm, which I haven't found to be true. Maybe this is only on an older version?
Either way, my below notes are how I am envisioning that the belleville washer affects the worm, which would serve to actually *unload* the bearing axially, which could be a good thing given how small these bearings are.
Somebody explain this to me if I am not getting it. It wouldn't be the first time something obvious eluded me.
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Re: Maybe, I should not blame my mount for it ?
I have a 50/330 refractor from teleskop service (same as Stellarvue or Sharpstar) with dedicated flattener. I dont have a suggested T2-DSLR adapter so maybe that's an issue. This scope is attached to a dovetail plate with a single wide ring lined with thick felt. When I hold a scope it moves as the felt compreses. Side by side guider doesn't move but the scope does.
I will have a 3D printed scope rings with the same inner diameter as the main tube. They will be screwed to adm vixen dovetail. On top they will be connected by a guider shoe. I believe it will help.?
If it is still bad, I will throw out a garbage and order WO bench tested refractor.
Planetary/Lunar? imaging with my SCT is so easy compared to DS imaging.
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Re: How is the belleville washer solution working?
A bit late to the thread but, having had my share of exposure to Belleville washers (thanks Michael!), and involuntary worm gear practice, let me chime in.? On a recent episode of Gold Rush, Tony had to fix a cog wheel that had been ruined by wear and tear because the inward pressure was too high.? He explained that in order for a gear to work well there has to be some play.? And if the pressure is one-sided, this does not affect the performance at all.? A wise lesson!
The most critical action that we have is on the RA worm gear.? Since it is constantly being pushed, a bit of backlash has no detrimental effect.? DEC must be tight though because we can't have the scope flopping around.? However, with proper polar alignment DEC should hardly be used.? So the issue of getting these gears super tight with Belleville washers and spring loaded worms is overblown IMHO. In fact I think it can add unnecessary friction and stiction as Brian pointed out, which is bad.
I agree with Anthony's first post, the 2 piece worm blocks can be adjusted fine so there is no play.? I tighten mine in the axial direction by using the telescope as a lever, so I get it pretty tight.? I also agree that the lateral gear adjustment is problematic.? I struggled with it a lot until I started shimming the blocks against the frame, then everything worked smoothly.? For that reason I can see why people like spring loaded gears but I think this may add unwanted pressure so shims are a better solution to me at least.
And if some people are so sensitive to backlash issues, what about these Oldham couplers?? I currently use flex couplers instead, they came with my EQStar kit, and I like them much better (no backlash).? They cause some pressure but I shim the blocks to relieve it.
In a separate thread I showed how the RA axis has about 2"-4" play.? Just like with cog wheels there has to be some play or it can bind up.? That play is only a problem near zenith when the balance shifts the other way.? What is more important is that things work well outside the transient region, and it does - because the Losmandy is mechanically excellent.? Bottom line, there will be backlash, it's a matter of understanding and learning how to live with it.
I have not seen any clear evidence, like a before and after comparison, that shows that Belleville washers or spring loaded worms have benefits.? Michael wrote in his email that he had 4.8" error before... to me that does not sound like evidence because such a large number suggests some kind of pilot error that has nothing to do with the subject.? Any mount can do better than that!? I can't believe a Losmandy would have such problems.? Over all I have the impression that there are more negatives than positives to these modifications.? Just my 2 cents, I am relatively new to the G11S, so take it FWIW (2 cents?)
I include my first image with the EQStar kit, unguided, shims applied, stacked images of 30, 60 and 120 seconds, 127 mm ED127CF Apo.? It was windy, I retried focusing but I could not get it any better.? I was pleased with the round stars in my subs.? The ones at 2 minutes were slightly elongated but not bad considering it was unguided.? So things started working for me, after my worm gear troubles.
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Re: Cold Start unresponsive
Thanks for your reply.
I was wondering if you could clarify what you mean when you say "calibrate" the hand control screen. Ince I'm automatically taken to? the "cold start, warm start, etc.", screen so I don't yet know of any way I can intervene to calibrate.
-Erik
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Re: Maybe, I should not blame my mount for it ?
Seb,
This looks like it could be a flattener spacing and sensor tilt problem. Looking at the corners you have a spacing problem but the bottom is not as bad, almost perfect. This tells me you have a combination problem. If you are not using a flattener or reducer flattener then this is a a sensor tilt or optical issue.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Luis,
This situation is why the G11T and the TRA-Axis exist, just to boost your G11 up to a 75 pounds imaging payload.?
?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Re: RA axis stability test
Henk,
Is this repeatable? Does it happen in both directions??It looks like you kicked the tripod or the camera or focuser flopped. I suggest a careful retest making sure you don't have a loose screw or compression clamp in the imaging train.
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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I have a G11G mount in my ROR observatory. Usually the weight of my instruments is about 17 kg (38 lbs). I¡¯m thinking to buy a Celestron14 Edge that weights 21 kg (47 lbs). Then the total weight of the instruments will be about 30 kg (66 lbs).? The Losmandy Titan is not even avalaible. If I purchase the TRA-AXIS to fit G11, might be enough the new payload capacity for astrophotography? Thanks
Luis
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Re: Maybe, I should not blame my mount for it ?
Its a refractor , so it should not lose collimation. I will check collimation anyway on a bright star next time. My guiding wasn't too bad. If it was guiding, stars would be more elongated on frames with longer exposure time.I believe its a cable pull, flexure or camera?sensor/scope misalignment.
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Re: Maybe, I should not blame my mount for it ?
Maybe your collimation is out? Mine was out a few days ago and it looked alot like that. I have an SCT, so it needs adjustment on occasion. How was your guiding?
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Maybe, I should not blame my mount for it ?
Please look at those light frames and compare. Same egg shaped stars on all of them. 5 sec or 300 sec exposure time?doesnt make any difference.
5 sec
60 sec
180 sec
300 sec
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Re: What's wrong with this mount? Help please .
Brian, that's a good idea, will do.
I haven't been motivated to do that yet since my current guiding is good enough for now. But the upcoming full moon days would be a good opportunity.
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Luis Barneo
David C. Partridge
Michael Herman
Chip Louie
Jamie Amendolagine