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Gemini II battery replacement

 

OK, so I was advised to replace the battery on my Gemini II, and found the replacement instructions to be pretty scary.?



"Also After replacing the battery, Power on the Gemini-2 and set the time and date. Failure to do so could cause the processor to draw too much power from the battery and might result in processor damage."

This looks to be a pretty old site, is there a better set of instructions for this??

Jamie


Re: TCP connection

 

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The issue you encountered was probably not a ‘network’ issue per se. ?The reason for using UDP is because the Gemini has a more robust UDP stack as compared to its TCP stack (according to Rene). ?But this is not related to speed.

UDP has less overhead … but at the expense of robustness/reliability. ?If, hypothetically, you could somehow have a network which is not capable of losing packets or having packets arrive out-of-order, then UDP would be a great choice. ?TCP was written to automatically manage these realities.?

There are quite a number of efficiencies built into TCP without a developer having to write any code… such as the Nagle algorithm (a sliding-window algorithm that deals with packet acknowledgement efficiencies), the ability to bulk-acknowledge, the ability to transmit “jumbo” frames, or to dynamically segment (and re-combine) frames that need to be larger than the maximum segment size. ?UDP doesn’t provide anything to make it “robust” in that you don’t really know if a packet arrived at the network destination. ?In UDP, this require writing more code resulting in more network traffic (basically there is no free lunch).

Something else to keep in mind (nothing to do with TCP or UDP) is that the twisted-pair ethernet cable is wired as a full-duplex cable. ?There is a wire pair for “transmit” and a separate wire pair for “receive”. ?A device doesn’t have to stop transmitting packets to “turn the connection around” to await response/acknowledgement packets. ?The speed of the network is vastly faster than the mechanical ability of the mount to respond — the network isn’t the bottleneck.

I would use UDP with the mount… primarily because it is what Rene recommends based on the code running in the Gemini.?

Clear Skies,
Tim


On May 21, 2020, at 9:17 AM, lesleyrgreen@... wrote:

I thought I read somewhere UDP was faster due to less overhead and therefore guiding benefited by the faster transmission of commands when using the ethernet. I have and still use ekos/indi/kstars on occasion. I had an issue with the scope taking off randomly. My issue was a little different in that is was ALWAYS associated with a plate solve and adjustment. Ekos would plate solve, determine the scope needed to move a couple hundred pixels, and send the scope to a random part of the sky, usually pointing straight down at the floor! I updated Gemini to the beta mentioned in the following thread and never saw it happen again. Again, my situation was a little different in that it was ALWAYS associated with a plate solve / readjustment but the symptoms sound eerily similar. Of course it is a beta firmware and there are lots of precautions you should pay attention to, but they are addressed in this and the associated threads.?
?/g/Losmandy_users/topic/32858271#63456


remote power on - what do you use

 

so I have a need to remotely power on/off my system including the telescope-top computer

I'm curious what is everyone using nowadays to do this?

The computer (a lenovo NUC-style computer) doesn't power on when power is available, so i'll have?to figure out how to power that on as an additional step


--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio


Re: motor cable

 

Just to confirm:

My 492 cables at home are the Data type that George kindly just documented.

Here are photos showing the wire colors are identical into both ends.

Hope this helps...

Michael

On Thu, May 21, 2020, 10:53 AM George Cushing <pinyachta@...> wrote:
Modular cables have some of the worst nomenclature on the planet. Yes, a straight thru cable is also reversed in that the plug at one end has its locking tab up the other has it down. The is the only way you can end up with the plugs looking like this.



?


Re: TCP connection

 

Jamie,

I doubt it is a network issue. If the battery checks out with a know good DMM I think this?stinks of a bad DIN cable or board connector and/or servo motor intermittently losing tics from a dirty encoder housing.?

--

Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware


Re: Company 7 Pole aligment issues and Com Port (RS 232) misbehaving

 
Edited

Hi Gustavo,

I think you are having an obvious issue here, the Losmandy polar scope gets threaded onto the RA clutch knob threads, the thread are most likely just hiding under the black square edged polar scope cap. ? Remove the black cap and thread the polar scope retainer onto the clutch knob. Be sure to use the wavy copper colored spring under the lip on the polar scope body and you should be GTG. Some of these mounts are not spaced correctly for use with the Polar scopes and may need some adjustment in the thrust bearing shim stack to keep the polar scope free to rotate even with the clutch knob snuged firmly. The ability to rotate the polar scope is required to use the polar scope correctly but you won't know it until you have assembled the polar scope and RA clutch knob. Try it and post a reply here.?

The glass reticle needs to be replaced with an updated reticle design to be used as instructed in the instructions for polar alignment. It is not an absolute must, I used to cheat it but it gets old and the correct reticle markings makes PA a lot easier and more accurate if you are looking for solid PA for visual use and to make your initial GOTO's more reliable. For imaging use you will need to drift align or use a PoleMaster or SharpCap or something like it.

Astro HuTech still shows the reticles on their site, here is the page: ? Click on it and put one in your cart to order one. It can sometimes take them a while to reply but they are really good people, and here in southern California we are still all but shutdown so be patient.?

Unless you are a qualified electronics tech and have a hot-air rework station don't risk shotgun repairs to your Gemini 1, good Geminis are hard to come by and if you mess up the repair you will very likely need to buy a new Gemini controller. It is a LOT cheaper to have one of these qualified people do the repairs for you. If you need your Gemini system tested, diagnosed and if needed, repaired, Michael is the BEST at least here in the US of A - David and Brendan are the best on their respective continents and all are the nicest most dedicated and skilled Gemini component level repair people ON THE PLANET. That's no joke as when Rus passed away Losmandy lost the ability to repair these boards.?

The best way to have fun as Michael suggests is to get your Gemini fixed by a qualified person or the only way you will be enjoying your Losmandy G11 is by buying a new Gemini.??

--

Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware


Re: Company 7 Pole aligment issues and Com Port (RS 232) misbehaving

 

I am in Mexico, But I do have a shipping address in the USA, so please send me your paypal address for a new cable please.? I think I should first try the cheapest failure repair mode and a $25 cable change should be my 1st approach...... If it carries on, I will gladly send it to you (once our borders are open)

On the pole finder, maybe I did not do a good job in explaining the situation....? The pole scope does not fully enter the hole , thus the tread is not "screwing" , or being capable of touching the threads, plus the fact that they are not even the same size visually....

Was this meant to be all just loose and unbolted? (creating huge inaccuracies)? I thought they were designed specifically for the G11.
Thanks


Re: motor cable

 

Modular cables have some of the worst nomenclature on the planet. Yes, a straight thru cable is also reversed in that the plug at one end has its locking tab up the other has it down. The is the only way you can end up with the plugs looking like this.



?


Re: TCP connection

 

The issue you had definitely rhymes with mine -- has the same ending.?

I don't think that I want to throw a beta gemini firmware in the mix at this point I've got way too many variables. I had a great session taking images of the needle galaxy last night, without a single drunken slew! Next time it happens I'll try and get the log data. I'll cross post it to the ekos/indi site too, they're usually a big help.?

Jamie?


Re: Company 7 Pole aligment issues and Com Port (RS 232) misbehaving

 

Hi Gustavo,

If you have a Gemini1, and it's serial com port chip is damaged (of all rare G1 troubles, this is a more common one), I can usually fix that for you, if you are in the US.? If you are in the UK or Europe you'd want to contact David Partridge, or in Australia or Asia, contact Brendan Smith.??

But the serial port operation is also dependent on a good serial port cable, and these also sometimes go bad....only 3 wires and they can snap or corrode. So if interested in a repair, send the G1 and serial port cable so they can be evaluated.? My serial port cable is $25.??

As for the reticule in the polar scope being off (Polaris is moving and so is the Earth's axis...and it is noticable over a decade time), Chip Louie told me that the reticule from another polar scope can work. This was a few years ago.? ?Chip...please confirm my remembrance... and if possible tell where one can get a replacement reticule.

(I was not clear if the polar scope just won't fit in the RA axis... as it once did... if so that's a question for Company 7!? )

The optical polar scopes and RA axis don't line up perfectly either.? At least not in any of my several brands of mount.? The polar scope reticule needs to be centered in the polar scope while it is in the RA axis, and this can be a difficult adjustment problem.? The reticules are fragile glass, and can be cracked by any overtightening of the very tiny setscrews used to center it.? You have to point the RA axis at a non-moving target (Polaris is pretty good for this if your scope and weights are very heavy).? Then rotate the RA axis to see if you can get the cross marker at the reticule center to stay stationary when RA rotates. If you escape this workout without a backache or eyestrain you are doing well.? This headache of adjusting the fragile reticule is another reason many folks have gone to video camera polar scope types.??

Have fun...contact me directly if you need a G1 repair.

Best,
Michael
Sunnyvale, California


On Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:55 AM Gustavo Pohls <gpohls@...> wrote:
Good morning folks,

I am back from the yahoo groups to this new group.....? ?I have had my old G11 (2006) and sporadically use it through the years. My use is basically planetary imaging and some DSO with my c14 and a Hyperstar which as you can? tell is not super crucial to be 100% dead on polar alignment.

As a result of the quarantine I have retaken more astrophotography?

I normally use Sharpcap to get it on good alignment but as I recently rediscovered I have a pole alignment scope made by company 7....? ?I just dont seem to remember how it attached to the back of the scope.... Attached you will find some pictures... I feel silly that I never seem to have this issue before , but It is painfully obvious I'm either doing something really wrong or I am missing an adapter of some sort.... The threads do not match and the shad=ft of the objetive do not enter fully the opening hole

What I am missing? (besides a few IQ points)

Also I called Losmandy, and they told me I need a new scope as this one was now off by 5 degrees?? Has the earth axis changed 5 degrees since 2006??

Last but not least, my RS232 port (Com port) is misbehaving , in Losmandy they want to push sell me a new panel ($1000) to solve this issue..... I find it insulting at the least.
I am good at fixing stuff with my soldering, I was thinking in replacing the port .?

Has anyone done it here?? Where can I buy this generic female port receiver?? Thanks a lot guys





Company 7 Pole aligment issues and Com Port (RS 232) misbehaving

 

Good morning folks,

I am back from the yahoo groups to this new group.....? ?I have had my old G11 (2006) and sporadically use it through the years. My use is basically planetary imaging and some DSO with my c14 and a Hyperstar which as you can? tell is not super crucial to be 100% dead on polar alignment.

As a result of the quarantine I have retaken more astrophotography?

I normally use Sharpcap to get it on good alignment but as I recently rediscovered I have a pole alignment scope made by company 7....? ?I just dont seem to remember how it attached to the back of the scope.... Attached you will find some pictures... I feel silly that I never seem to have this issue before , but It is painfully obvious I'm either doing something really wrong or I am missing an adapter of some sort.... The threads do not match and the shad=ft of the objetive do not enter fully the opening hole

What I am missing? (besides a few IQ points)

Also I called Losmandy, and they told me I need a new scope as this one was now off by 5 degrees?? Has the earth axis changed 5 degrees since 2006??

Last but not least, my RS232 port (Com port) is misbehaving , in Losmandy they want to push sell me a new panel ($1000) to solve this issue..... I find it insulting at the least.
I am good at fixing stuff with my soldering, I was thinking in replacing the port .?

Has anyone done it here?? Where can I buy this generic female port receiver?? Thanks a lot guys





Re: TCP connection

 

Paul

when connecting via TCP (vs UDP) is it using the 4030 port (or whatever port is specified in the gemini setup)? or is it using http for something like a rest protocol?



On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 6:22 AM Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 06:31 PM, Timothy Campbell wrote:
?
Both TCP and UDP ride on top of the IP layer ... there is no discernible advantage with respect to things like speed, etc. ?using one over the other.
?
That aside ... while it sounds like TCP would be the better choice, according to Rene, UDP is preferred in the case of the Gemini.? Apparently more work was spent making sure UDP works and perhaps the TCP stack on the Gemini isn't as solid.
There is a speed advantage due to the Gemini UDP specification. It allows multiple commands to be packaged up together into a single packet and the results and acknowledgements to be returned in a single packet. As an example, the ASCOM driver keeps a queue of all the requests and will send multiple ones in a single packet when backed up for any reason.?

TCP/IP Gemini protocol is much more like the Gemini serial protocol and doesn't have the command coalescing behavior of the UDP protocol nor the acknowledgment for most commands that don't produce a response. In effect, it is less performant and less recoverable/reliable than UDP.?



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio


Re: TCP connection

 
Edited

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 06:31 PM, Timothy Campbell wrote:
?
Both TCP and UDP ride on top of the IP layer ... there is no discernible advantage with respect to things like speed, etc. ?using one over the other.
?
That aside ... while it sounds like TCP would be the better choice, according to Rene, UDP is preferred in the case of the Gemini. ?Apparently more work was spent making sure UDP works and perhaps the TCP stack on the Gemini isn't as solid.
There is a speed advantage due to the Gemini UDP specification. It allows multiple commands to be packaged up together into a single packet and all the results and acknowledgements to be returned in a single packet. As an example, the ASCOM driver keeps a queue of all the requests and will send multiple ones in a single packet when backed up for any reason.?

TCP/IP Gemini protocol is much more like the Gemini serial protocol and doesn't have the command coalescing behavior of the UDP protocol nor the acknowledgment for most commands that don't produce a response. In effect, it is less performant and less recoverable/reliable than UDP.


Re: TCP connection

 

I thought I read somewhere UDP was faster due to less overhead and therefore guiding benefited by the faster transmission of commands when using the ethernet. I have and still use ekos/indi/kstars on occasion. I had an issue with the scope taking off randomly. My issue was a little different in that is was ALWAYS associated with a plate solve and adjustment. Ekos would plate solve, determine the scope needed to move a couple hundred pixels, and send the scope to a random part of the sky, usually pointing straight down at the floor! I updated Gemini to the beta mentioned in the following thread and never saw it happen again. Again, my situation was a little different in that it was ALWAYS associated with a plate solve / readjustment but the symptoms sound eerily similar. Of course it is a beta firmware and there are lots of precautions you should pay attention to, but they are addressed in this and the associated threads.?
?/g/Losmandy_users/topic/32858271#63456


Re: Specs for The Mount

 

Hi Abners?

the latest specs are in the datasheets here:

??

?
?


On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:00 PM <abners@...> wrote:

Hi,
Does anyone know where I can get?specs of the mounts?

Thanks



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio


Re: Specs for The Mount

 

Losmandy Mount links for GM8 and GM11 here:



Regards,
Ron M


Specs for The Mount

 

Hi,
Does anyone know where I can get?specs of the mounts?

Thanks


Re: TCP connection

 

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SkySafari also has an option to enable logging. ?You can turn that on to capture logs and see if it provides you more info. ? ?Sky Safari retries commands several times before it gives up. ?

You'll notice that in Sky Safari you can adjust the "readout rate" (how often it asks the mount to report it's RA & Dec position) and you can also adjust the timeout.

The Gemini I is notoriously bad about responding to queries while it is still completing a slew. ?The Gemini II is better at this. ? But you might reduce the readout rate and increase the timeout values to see if those adjustments help.?

Regarding TCP vs UDP...

UDP is connectionless. ?It works a bit like a radio station in that it transmits packets but there is nothing inherent to UDP that guarantees that a packet (frame) was received on the other end. ?Any error detection/correction protocols would have to be implemented in the application.

TCP is connection oriented. ?Once a connection is established, delivery is basically assured *or* you'll know about it -- because the ability to detect and retransmit missing packets is built into the protocol. ?The application doesn't need to worry about dealing with error detection & correction.

Both TCP and UDP ride on top of the IP layer ... there is no discernible advantage with respect to things like speed, etc. ?using one over the other.

That aside ... while it sounds like TCP would be the better choice, according to Rene, UDP is preferred in the case of the Gemini. ?Apparently more work was spent making sure UDP works and perhaps the TCP stack on the Gemini isn't as solid.

Clear skies,
Tim



On May 20, 2020, at 5:43 PM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:

?
Jamie you are going to get the info from your INDI driver, so see if there's more verbose logging from there

sounds like an INDI driver issue, so i would look to their forums for more answers?


On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:39 PM Jamie Amendolagine <jamie.amendolagine@...> wrote:
OH, I just read, is not going to work for me. I'll try and enable more verbose logging. Is there anything the I can get directly from the mount, or through the Gemini web server??



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio


Re: TCP connection

 

Thanks Dean, I'll give that a try.?

In the meantime I found how to get horribly verbose logging to work:?

indiserver -vvv indi_lx200gemini indi_asi_ccd indi_skysafari

-- just for anyone who stumbles across this an wonders how to get verbose logging to work.?

Output looks like this:?
2020-05-20T22:09:33: Client 11: sending msg copy 1 nq 2:
<setSwitchVector device="Losmandy Gemini" name="TELESCOPE_TRACK_STATE" state="Busy" timeout="0" timestamp="2020-05-20T22:09:33">
? ? <oneSwitch name="TRACK_ON">
On
? ? </oneSwitch>
? ? <oneSwitch name="TRACK_OFF">
Off
? ? </oneSwitch>
</setSwitchVector>
?
2020-05-20T22:09:33: Driver indi_asi_ccd: sending msg copy 3 nq 1:
<setNumberVector device="Losmandy Gemini" name="EQUATORIAL_EOD_COORD" state="Ok" timeout="60" timestamp="2020-05-20T22:09:33">
? ? <oneNumber name="RA">
9.0322222222222237065
? ? </oneNumber>
? ? <oneNumber name="DEC">
41.703611111111115406
? ? </oneNumber>
</setNumberVector>
?
2020-05-20T22:09:33: Client 0: sending msg copy 2 nq 1:
<setNumberVector device="Losmandy Gemini" name="EQUATORIAL_EOD_COORD" state="Ok" timeout="60" timestamp="2020-05-20T22:09:33">
? ? <oneNumber name="RA">
9.0322222222222237065
? ? </oneNumber>
? ? <oneNumber name="DEC">
41.703611111111115406
? ? </oneNumber>
</setNumberVector>
?
2020-05-20T22:09:33: Client 11: sending msg copy 1 nq 1:
<setNumberVector device="Losmandy Gemini" name="EQUATORIAL_EOD_COORD" state="Ok" timeout="60" timestamp="2020-05-20T22:09:33">
? ? <oneNumber name="RA">
9.0322222222222237065
? ? </oneNumber>
? ? <oneNumber name="DEC">
41.703611111111115406
? ? </oneNumber>
</setNumberVector>


?



Re: TCP connection

Dean Drumheller
 

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Hi Jamie,
For what it’s worth....I ran 2 Titans and one G11 for 8 years. EVERY time a mount acted “drunk” (as in pointing down or the wrong direction) I fixed the problem fairly quickly, by changing the Gemini battery and resetting all the parameters. Every time, honest. Worth a try. I changed the Gemini battery 3-4 times a year because that worked. Good luck with that frustrating issue. ?Dean


On May 20, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Jamie Amendolagine <jamie.amendolagine@...> wrote:

?

[Edited Message Follows]

You're right "it just kind of looses it", is vague.?

Just as some background, it may just be my setup because I've been compiling the components from source and usually using the "master" branch so it's going to be hard to track down issues.?

The issue is a little hard to explain, but I'll try. This never has happened during the initial slews or plate solving. It usually happens after doing some imaging on a target for a while, then slewing to a different target. I can usually tell that something is going wrong because I can hear the motors running at a high rate and not slowing down. So I step out of my little house next to the scope and see the mount slewing somewhere completely wrong like pointing into the ground, or going way too far so that the wires start to wrap around the mount. I usually intervene by either stopping the mount with a command, or by turning it off before something get's damaged.?

I don't want to even ask anyone to diagnose my setup as building from master could introduce all kinds of issues that would be hard to trace down. This is why I'm trying to just switch individual aspects one-at-a-time to see what might be causing it. UDP/TCP seems like a good candidate so I'm trying that.. I used to build from stable tags, but at some point those became unusable because my zwo guide camera would disconnect before getting a single shot. I switched to master and I don't have this issue. I try every once in a while to switch back to a newer stable tag, but so far I have to stay on master.?

Here's my setup:
  • I do all my slewing from skysafari running on a mobile device.
  • I run the phd/indi/ekos software stack on a raspberry4 on the scope. I VNC in to access the rpi.?
I've noticed that when this happens, skysafari never seems to settle down. The "goto" button remains greyed out the entire time even after I reboot all the components, disconnect and reconnect skysafari. I need to shutdown and restart skysafari to be able to access the mount again. This makes me think that there is either something wrong between skysafari and the mount, or there is something wrong with skysafari. I know that udp is not a reliable connection so I though of switching that to tcp first, but it seems that tcp is maybe not an option for losmandy<->gemini<->indi<->skysafari. I may just try and switch to usb to see if that helps.?

These are the things that I'm going to try, ordering by least painful of a change:

  • Switch to TCP (maybe not possible)
  • Switch to USB for the mount connection instead of ethernet
  • Switch to using kstars instead of skysafari for slews
  • Switch back to stable builds for each of the components
  • Profit!

--
Dean