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Gemini II Hand Control issues

 

My Gemini II Hand Control always shows Jupiter and Saturn as "pre-selected" and won't let me select them.? Who wants to view them anyway?? LOL The other planets appear fine.? ?Anyone know a fix?
Re: Undermounted?

 
Edited

On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 06:28 AM, George Cushing wrote:
The SCT as shown must weigh what, 55lbs.?
?
Hi George,
?
I don't know, I didn't weigh the whole kit and caboodle.? But piecing it together I suppose it is about 70 lbs. ++? based on what I have notes for below.? It tracked well though I never really got an actual PA and the moon remained on the ASI2600MC-Pro sensor ROI all night.? It was not being guided and I never bothered with shooting any alignment stars.? Just got lucky as I just used the usual marked spots in the driveway and didn't touch the ALT / AZ adjusters on the G11G.??
?
I know this old LX200 Classic 10" f/6.3 buck naked before even a dovetail or visual? back is added weighs in @ 27+ lbs.? Add the 2.5" Moonlite focuser, old fashioned un-lightened 17" double Losmandy D dovetails and radius blocks, Stellarvue 50mm finder and mount, 2" AP Maxbight diagonal and 35mm Panoptic and it's probably over 42 lbs. or so which is what I have old notes for.??
?
Then add the Askar FRA500 with rings and Losmandy DUP14 and top ultralight V-dovetail weights 15 lbs.? Add to that a Deep Sky Dad Flat Panel, a pair of Stellarvue 50mm optics, a guidescope with the helical focuser and ASI678MM and the finder with RACI prism diagonal eyepiece and mount, as well as an ASIAIR Plus v.3, ZWO EAF, ZWO EFW, ASI2600MC-Pro and various associated Baader M68 extension tubes and adapters to support the Askar f/3.9 reducer.? This rest add maybe 10 lbs??
?
And all of this gear is sitting on an original Losmandy Side-By-Side mount with the addition of an ADM MAX ALT/AZ Aiming device.? This configuration weighs a little over 7 pounds.??
?
To really balance it right takes the practical max.? 91 lb combination of counterweights. I tried using a pair of 11 lb. CWs but this left me no shaft room to adjust balance easily.? This is all that.really fits on the CW shaft with an easy to move 7 lb counterweight used as a balance adjuster.? But I couldn't take my last 21 lb. CW off the GM8G which had a load in the saddle that used the 21 lb. and a pair of 11 lb. CWs.? ?
?
--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
?
?
?
Re: Undermounted?

 

The SCT as shown must weigh what, 55lbs.?
Re: Gemini/NINA spreadsheet

 

?
in Gemini-2, WGL is definitely counted backward in deg/min from WSL. Gemini-1 has a different definition it seems. Can any other Gemini-1 Users confirm?
?
Was that only spreadsheet discrepancy you found , Franco?
--
Edward
Re: Gemini/NINA spreadsheet

 

Where are you located.?Franco?

--
Thanks and Best Regards
Neil


On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:54?AM Franco Meconi via <francomeconi=[email protected]> wrote:
Hey everyone, just circling back to this post to share my results. After a couple of nights of testing, it appears like I have finally found settings that work well with my setup. I'm sharing a couple of screenshots of my settings below. What I believe is the main thing that I was seeing in lots of tutorials that was complicating things for me was the "western goto limit" setting. I'd seen in many posts and tutorials that this setting was counted backwards from the western limit of the mount, so in most cases it would lie somewhere between maybe 2 and 8-10 degrees. However, the losmandy gemini 1 manual states that this setting is counted from the CWD position, so it should be a value over 90 degrees (just past the meridian). I actually set it at 90 degrees because my western limit is very low due to being in the southern hemisphere and my RA motor is in the western side. So this setting I believe is that the mount will perform a flip when a go-to command is received at any position after 90 degrees from CWD (so right on the meridian). I also experienced the problem in NINA that NINA interprets the wrong side of pier (opposite of what it really is, which I suspect is another problem due to being located in the southern hemisphere). I tried disabling Gemini reporting the side of pier altogether but that brought on a different set of problems with PHD2 and guiding, so I reccomend leaving this setting on but disabling it only in NINA for flips.
?
In NINA, my "Minutes after meridian and "Max Minutes After Meridian" setting was actually determined using Edward's spreadsheet, which was very helpful to start narrowing down where possible problems could be. In any case, flips are very reliable now, the only problem is that my margins are really tight due to the physical configuration of my setup which allows for a very small range of motion past the meridian on the western side. Hopefully I can change this in the near future. For now, however, for my 2 or 3 minute long exposures, these settings work fine.
?
I'll also add that meridian flips also worked fine when using those low values for the "western goto limit" (I had 4.5 in there, see my previous messages with screengrabs) but this setting caused the mount to fail to go-to fairly large portions of the sky, particularly around the SCP. As soon as I changed the western goto limit to 90, the mount started slewing to every object I chose without restrictions.
?
Anyways, that's my experience setting up the G11 with Gemini 1 with NINA for fully automated go-tos and reliable meridian flips in the southern hemisphere.?
?
?
?
?
Re: Gemini/NINA spreadsheet

 

Hey everyone, just circling back to this post to share my results. After a couple of nights of testing, it appears like I have finally found settings that work well with my setup. I'm sharing a couple of screenshots of my settings below. What I believe is the main thing that I was seeing in lots of tutorials that was complicating things for me was the "western goto limit" setting. I'd seen in many posts and tutorials that this setting was counted backwards from the western limit of the mount, so in most cases it would lie somewhere between maybe 2 and 8-10 degrees. However, the losmandy gemini 1 manual states that this setting is counted from the CWD position, so it should be a value over 90 degrees (just past the meridian). I actually set it at 90 degrees because my western limit is very low due to being in the southern hemisphere and my RA motor is in the western side. So this setting I believe is that the mount will perform a flip when a go-to command is received at any position after 90 degrees from CWD (so right on the meridian). I also experienced the problem in NINA that NINA interprets the wrong side of pier (opposite of what it really is, which I suspect is another problem due to being located in the southern hemisphere). I tried disabling Gemini reporting the side of pier altogether but that brought on a different set of problems with PHD2 and guiding, so I reccomend leaving this setting on but disabling it only in NINA for flips.
?
In NINA, my "Minutes after meridian and "Max Minutes After Meridian" setting was actually determined using Edward's spreadsheet, which was very helpful to start narrowing down where possible problems could be. In any case, flips are very reliable now, the only problem is that my margins are really tight due to the physical configuration of my setup which allows for a very small range of motion past the meridian on the western side. Hopefully I can change this in the near future. For now, however, for my 2 or 3 minute long exposures, these settings work fine.
?
I'll also add that meridian flips also worked fine when using those low values for the "western goto limit" (I had 4.5 in there, see my previous messages with screengrabs) but this setting caused the mount to fail to go-to fairly large portions of the sky, particularly around the SCP. As soon as I changed the western goto limit to 90, the mount started slewing to every object I chose without restrictions.
?
Anyways, that's my experience setting up the G11 with Gemini 1 with NINA for fully automated go-tos and reliable meridian flips in the southern hemisphere.?
?
?
?
?
Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

On Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 06:26 AM, Mark Christensen wrote:
Paul,
?
You may be right about the price difference going down but, frankly, I doubt it will: Absolute axis encoders are a niche within a niche.
?
We always have to remember that the market for astronomy products at the consumer and educational (as opposed to research) end is only about $300M per year. That's nothing: A single 777 costs that much. And according to some market studies, nearly 50% of that market is controlled by one company now: Celestron. The point being that the chances of reaching economies of scale, which is what it would take to drop the price down, is very low.
?
Other indicators of the small size of the market are that when Sky and Tel was sold it barely drew $3M. And it only took a $18M court judgement to kill Meade this last time and for Orion to buy them.
And then Orion went under. Numbers like $3M and $18M are peanuts.
?
My hats really off to people like Losmandy, OpTech Inc, AstroPhysics, and Planewave for having the guts to set up businesses for such a small market composed all too often of nitpicky customers.
I continue to be amazed at how many people launch small companies in this market. We're all lucky they do.?They must really love what they are doing.
?
Best regards,
?
Mark C
?
Mark,
?
We already have cheap absolute encoders, we use them in many devices.? The problem is they are small and lack significant resolution, they are bit limited.? The cost of absolute encoders capable of the resolution, a minimum of 23 bits, and accuracy we need will never get that cheap, they are too hard to make.? I also think you are also right about the amateur astronomy market bing small.? I think it may get even smaller as people get squeezed financially, think tariffs, and the fact that cheap instant gratification seems to be what people want.?
?
Nobody these days seems to appreciate the journey is at least half the fun of any hobby worth doing.??Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just saying.??
?
I mean if I couldn't play with the mount control electronics on my workbench, buy and play with all the imaging gear, play with CAD prototyping and outputting to my DIY Trident 3-D printer, build editing computers for post capture processing etc. and the countless hours I spend on-line kvetching about it astronomy would be as frustrating and troublesome to me as it is to all the people who can't figure out why they don't see the pretty pictures on the box in the eyepiece of their shiney new $400 40mm telescope.? ? ? ?
?
--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
?
?
?
Re: Disconnection Losmandy G11 GEMINI LV4

 

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 07:39 AM, Joe Ulowetz wrote:
Cyril,
I recently also had intermitttent communication problems with my G11/Gemini-1 (20 years old); I sprayed contact cleaner on the serial port on the Gemini and inserted and removed the serial cable several times. Magically, all my problems went away!
?
Good luck,
-Joe
?
For those on RS232 ports by far the most common issue is the cable between the USB to serial converter.? A lot of folks used flat phone cabling with RJ/phone style connectors.? While cheap and good for long distances with the right type of flat cable they are much more fragile than a commercial style fully soldered DB9 and round shielded twisted pair cable.??
?
So first identify the cable type used and diagnose as is appropriate, for flat phone RJ type cables and connectors clean the jacks first.? If that doesn't resolve it the issue may be the connection inside the RJ plug and the only way to fix that is to cut off the end and crimp a new RJ connector on the flat or round cable depending on what you have.?
?
Alternately you can replace the cable but that's going to be harder unless you can fabricate a new cable yourself or have a friend who knows how to do this.??
?
For a hand built soldered DB9 and shell check using round shielded twisted pair check continuity end to end and repair as needed.? Don't discount the possibility of dirty contacts but they are less of a problem for this type of connector.??
?
Do this before you spend the money on a new USB to Serial converter cable.??
?
--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
?
?
?
Re: Disconnection Losmandy G11 GEMINI LV4

 

Cyril,
I recently also had intermitttent communication problems with my G11/Gemini-1 (20 years old); I sprayed contact cleaner on the serial port on the Gemini and inserted and removed the serial cable several times. Magically, all my problems went away!
?
Good luck,
-Joe
Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 04:35 AM, Astrophoto_Andy wrote:
And on to of that Mark, is an exceptionally nice person as well!?
?
Andy Weeks
?
There's no proof of that what so ever.??
?
--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
?
?
?
Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

And on to of that Mark, is an exceptionally nice person as well!?

Andy Weeks
Re: Disconnection Losmandy G11 GEMINI LV4

 
Edited

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 08:20 AM, Cyril PIN-FERRIER wrote:

Regarding the adapter, is there a model that is better than others and easily available worldwide? (I am in France).

I prefer the FTDI-based adapters. The drivers seem to just work, and even some of the older adapters have lasted for 15+ years and still work in my setup.
?
Re: Disconnection Losmandy G11 GEMINI LV4

 

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 12:05 PM, Paul Kanevsky wrote:

Hi Cyril, the serial errors in logs (bad checksum, timeout, etc.) all indicate a bad, noisy, or unstable serial connection. Try changing PC to serial adapter, cables, clean the connectors on both sides. If the problem persist, try replacing USB->Serial adapter if you are using one.

Regards,

Hello Paul,

Thank you for the quick reply. I will start by checking the cables and cleaning the connectors. If the issue persists, I will consider replacing the USB-to-serial adapter, which is starting to get old. Regarding the adapter, is there a model that is better than others and easily available worldwide? (I am in France).

Thank you very much,
Cyril
Re: Disconnection Losmandy G11 GEMINI LV4

 

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 06:27 AM, Cyril PIN-FERRIER wrote:

Hello,

Last night, I encountered a recurring problem. I am attaching the log file. The Losmandy G11 Gemini 1 LV4 mount disconnects randomly from NINA. I have tried everything I could find in the group, but I haven't been able to fix the issue.

The first problem occurred after 8:18 PM; you can find it in the logs at 20:19:46.975 Exception.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Cyril

?

Hi Cyril, the serial errors in logs (bad checksum, timeout, etc.) all indicate a bad, noisy, or unstable serial connection. Try changing PC to serial adapter, cables, clean the connectors on both sides. If the problem persist, try replacing USB->Serial adapter if you are using one.

Regards,

? -Paul
Disconnection Losmandy G11 GEMINI LV4

 

Hello,

Last night, I encountered a recurring problem. I am attaching the log file. The Losmandy G11 Gemini 1 LV4 mount disconnects randomly from NINA. I have tried everything I could find in the group, but I haven't been able to fix the issue.

The first problem occurred after 8:18 PM; you can find it in the logs at 20:19:46.975 Exception.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Cyril

ASCOM.Gemini Telescope .NET.1946.472000.txt
ASCOM.Gemini Telescope .NET.1946.472000.txt

Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

On Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 06:15 AM, Mark Christensen wrote:
Chip,
?
Thanks for the complement but this old dog is pushing 80.
?
But I'm still able to operate a model makers, manual feed lathe, fix a CNC router, build and program OnStep systems, program in PIC assembler
along with C, and write a Windows 11/ASCOM 7-compatible driver for the older (pre-2009 sale of the company) FeatherTouch Focusers in C#/Visual Studio.
?
It's been 12 years since I've made a parabolic mirror so that era is at an end for me. But mechanical and electrical/software stuff is
still with my capacity for a few more years.
?
Cheers,
?
Mark C.
NFW!
--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
?
?
?
Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

Paul,
?
You may be right about the price difference going down but, frankly, I doubt it will: Absolute axis encoders are a niche within a niche.
?
We always have to remember that the market for astronomy products at the consumer and educational (as opposed to research) end is only about $300M per year. That's nothing: A single 777 costs that much. And according to some market studies, nearly 50% of that market is controlled by one company now: Celestron. The point being that the chances of reaching economies of scale, which is what it would take to drop the price down, is very low.
?
Other indicators of the small size of the market are that when Sky and Tel was sold it barely drew $3M. And it only took a $18M court judgement to kill Meade this last time and for Orion to buy them.
And then Orion went under. Numbers like $3M and $18M are peanuts.
?
My hats really off to people like Losmandy, OpTech Inc, AstroPhysics, and Planewave for having the guts to set up businesses for such a small market composed all too often of nitpicky customers.
I continue to be amazed at how many people launch small companies in this market. We're all lucky they do.?They must really love what they are doing.
?
Best regards,
?
Mark C
Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

Chip,
?
Thanks for the complement but this old dog is pushing 80.
?
But I'm still able to operate a model makers, manual feed lathe, fix a CNC router, build and program OnStep systems, program in PIC assembler
along with C, and write a Windows 11/ASCOM 7-compatible driver for the older (pre-2009 sale of the company) FeatherTouch Focusers in C#/Visual Studio.
?
It's been 12 years since I've made a parabolic mirror so that era is at an end for me. But mechanical and electrical/software stuff is
still with my capacity for a few more years.
?
Cheers,
?
Mark C.
Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

On 3/17/2025 10:11 PM, Chip Louie via groups.io wrote:
Sky-Watcher makes a mount in the 100-lb class called the EQ8. The base model, without?tripod, is about $5.3K here in the USA today.
Who knows about the future? The same model with absolute axis encoders is $9.475K. The encoders are from Renishaw, as very
well respected industrial supplier. Good, so they advertise, to 0.1 arc seconds.
That's a price difference of $4.175K for the encoder feature, to what end?
I doubt that price differential will remain so forever.

In the mean time, after spending quite a bit of effort investigating (and in most cases addressing) the sources of tracking inconsistency and DEC backlash in my GM811, I'm pretty sure that basic things like higher machining tolerances and ESPECIALLY better bearing design and execution would result in a better performing and more consistent mount at a much lower cost than adding today's high precision absolute encoders.

That said, if absolute encoder cost can be addressed, that would be a "one size fits all" solution for many design and machining ills. Or the unpredictable and difficult to guide movement of today's strain wave mounts.

Paul

--
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
pgoelz@...
www.pgoelz.com
Re: Encoders, yes or no?

 

On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 08:59 AM, Mark Christensen wrote:
I violently agree with Chip on this one. To me, high resolution absolute axis encoders are just the latest example of Astro-Bling.
?
To reinforce his point on the cost issue here is a concrete example:
?
Sky-Watcher makes a mount in the 100-lb class called the EQ8. The base model, without?tripod, is about $5.3K here in the USA today.
Who knows about the future? The same model with absolute axis encoders is $9.475K. The encoders are from Renishaw, as very
well respected industrial supplier. Good, so they advertise, to 0.1 arc seconds.
?
That's a price difference of $4.175K for the encoder feature, to what end?
?
Plus, to this old man absolute encoders, USB hubs, or GPS modules integrated into a mount are just something else that can break.
As the sage said "Someday everything will need to be maintained".
?
If I want to know the coordinates of an object precisely I'll use?the Blind Astronomy Solver.
?
Mark Christensen
?
Mark,
?
WOW!? Violently?? I've had people get violent with me but until now nobody has VIOLENTLY agreed with me!? LOL!? ?
?
At retail 5 years ago a Renishaw solid 100mm encoder ring and a pair of readheads and the matching electronics cost about $3.5K PER axis.?
?
I didn't think you were old Mark.??
?
--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
?
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