Re: Runaway slew while using PHD2
Hey Jim,
At the time I tried, there was no Framing and Mozaic Wizard, which I really like to use in SGPro. You type in the object name, e.g. NGC 6888, and it brings up a wide field low res image of those sky coordinates, and you can move the tile box around to frame it as you like, or create multiple tiles for a mosaic.?
Also, there was no way to edit the sequence as it was running, like adding additional filters, or numbers of frames. You had to stop the sequence entirely to do this. Perhaps these features have been added since then.
My eventual goal would be to run a cam on both my Zenithstar 61 and Esprit 100ED at the same time and capture twice the data, maximizing use of sky time.
Thanks,
John
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Re: Losmandy GM-8: Anomalous wearing of R.A. shaft
Sandro,
Not seeing your video. Did you post a link? Not sure if you can upload videos to this forum.
John
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Re: Relationship between needle bearing wobble and variable worm mesh and backlash
Having reset my worm mesh for the least amount of backlash using the Allen wrench method, I would recommended doing it with the scope in the position shown below . One thing to note, if the worm mesh is too tight. the motion of the worm is jerky. This shows up in the PHD2 backlash graph as an initial move, followed by a long period where it does not move as it builds pressure in the gearbox to overcome frictional resistance, only to start moving again.?
Peter
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Re: Losmandy GM-8: Anomalous wearing of R.A. shaft
I explain the reason for this here:? /g/Losmandy_users/topic/relationship_between_needle/84580649?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,84580649Peter
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Re: Relationship between needle bearing wobble and variable worm mesh and backlash
1. I've previously pointed out the loose fit of the Dec and Ra shafts in relation to the the needle bearings. It's has been pointed out that this looseness if needed in order to get the shaft through the needle bearings and when the clutch is tightened this looseness should not matter.? However, this looseness results in the shaft having just two points of contact per the drawing, and means it's rotation is ever so slightly off axis. This was determined by inserting the shaft into freshly greased needle bearings and removing it without rotation.?
?
2. I have previously pointed out how sensitive setting the worm mesh pressure is. +/- 0.0005 to 0.001 makes a big difference in the ability to finger rotate the worm in order to move the ring gear. The closeness of the mesh has a direct relationship to backlash.
3. I and Michael Herman have found that changing out the thrust bearings from the stock Losmandy to ones sourced from McMaster can have a significant effect of ease of rotation resulting from a better worm ring gear mesh. I have also found that a large PHD2 error in the 2600s or higher range is most likely due to the thrust bearings. It should be noted that the stock Losmandy and McMaster thrust bearings have been measured to be the same thickness, but they do differ in their construction. The stock Losmandy bearings have a crimped edge which is not even in diameter the case of those I have. This implies that the rollers are not pointing to the exact center of the bearing, resulting in an off axis force as a function of rotation. I greatly reduce this error with the McMaster thrust bearings.
4. The ring gear rotates on a bushing (in the case of the G11 this is brass). With the clutch off off I have found that the ring bearings rotates easily through 360 degrees.?
5. With the clutch tightened I have found that the if the worm is meshed at the CWD position there is a tight spot when the axis is rotated 180 degrees. This tightness can result is a stall at the 180 degree position, but regardless represents a variation in the backlash as the axis rotates.? This is the Dec axis.
CWD position where the worm mesh was set. Even distribution of grease.
Grease distribution at 180 degrees of ration. In my case I had a stall at this point.?
So what causes this to occur. I believe that the clutch plate being off axis by virtue of the needle-shaft loose fit, produced off center pressure? on the ring gear, which has some degree of movement by virtue of riding on the brass bushing, that forces the ring gear into the worm as it rotates. Hence the worm mesh and backlash changes as a function of rotation
Peter
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Losmandy GM-8: Anomalous wearing of R.A. shaft
Hello everybody,
I have a GM-8 that I purchased new in 2000, which I have not used heavily;
so it is still quite new and behaving. Lately I noticed that the clutches
tended to slip, probably due to grease leakage to the nylon discs.?
So I decided to disassemble the mount
to perform a complete cleaning and regreasing. I started with the DEC axis
and everything was fine and OK. When I disassembled the R.A. axis I found that
the shaft shows signs of irregular wearing in correspondance of the upper
and lower needle barrels, on opposite sides of the shaft (see video). Only the
anodization seems to have come off and there are no signs of serious grinding.
Nevertheless, prior to disassembling, the axis rotated quite smoothly and
apparently there was no play whatsoever.
Does anybody have an explanation for what has happened and how to prevent
possible further damages?
Thank you all.
Sandro Barbanera
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Re: Price check for CG11 with Gemini 2
This seems to be a very old model if it is manufactured for Celestron and has a steel worm, so the price might be too high.
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Re: What result I can get with the current OPW in my old G11?
Andre,
The bearings I used during my last rebuild were from Boca Bearings and were SR4-ZZC #7 PS2 BG (.250x.625x.196), which I believe Michael H. had recommended. They were about $10-12 at the time. They are the same dimensions as those that Losmandy uses, but there may be sources in Brazil that are equivalent. Yes, they are all probably made in the Southeast Asia, regardless. McMaster-Carr also offers some sealed and permanently lubricated bearings that can go close to $30 each, but if there is an advantage to these, I have not heard the report as of yet.
But to answer your question, if Losmandy sent you the new bearings as part of your order, yes they are perfectly fine to use. Many of us just order the worm by itself, to replace a damaged one or to seek better performance. Then we can use the Losmandy bearings, or some of the ones from the other suppliers as a matter of choice, to explore potentially better guiding behavior.
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.
Good luck with your rebuild.
John
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Re: Need alignment/modeling help
Thanks Michael. I¡¯m pretty sure the time and offset are correct, but I am going to try your suggestion.
Also, I understood that a?quick start performs a cold start subsequent to the mount/time/location input. Is that incorrect?
Thanks for the help!
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Re: Runaway slew while using PHD2
John - You should try the current NINA 1.11 Nightly Build.? ?What NINA features would you like to see?
------------------------
Jim W
Phoenix, AZ. USA
Losmandy GM811G, NINA 1.11, ASI2600MC Pro, Sky-Watcher Scopes
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Re: Runaway slew while using PHD2
NINA was something I tried for a few nights in early 2020, but I thought it was missing a number of important features that Sequence Generator Pro had. But from the vlogs I have seen on YouTube and other reports, the features and reliability appear to be steadily improving.? Since it is a free and open source app, I appreciate what the developers are trying to do for the AP community. Reporting errors in their Discord forum might lead to someone there eventually fixing issues like those reported here. Some advanced imagers like Ron Brecher use it all the time, as noted in one of his Sky and Telescope articles. One feature I like is being able to to run two cameras on two scopes at the same time on the same mount by having two instances open at the same time. NINA then coordinates and runs the dither for both imaging sequences at the same time to prevent one frame or the other from trailing. With two scopes running you can capture narrow and wide field at the same time, or do narrow and broad band likewise. For this reason alone I would like to give NINA a try again sometime in the future.
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Re: Price check for CG11 with Gemini 2
On CN the add drops down on the list and people may not see it unless you do an "update" to bump it. The default setting putting ads in last updated as a choice.
The rules let you do this once a week.
I sent you a PM on the site about the tripod.
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Re: Runaway slew while using PHD2
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 05:10 AM, alan137 wrote:
update to say I tested the new driver for a few days now.
Good: it no longer does the run-away slew when guiding and issuing GOTO at the same time
Bad: PHD no longer recognizes that the mount has slewed and beeps and flashes red.
After a while, I start to get "serial communication errors"? from programs that talk to the mount.? For example, when I use NINA to platesolve and sync, there will be this error and NINA crashes out.
Things like this is why I like to use a program that has everything integrated: plate solving, polar alignment, alignment, autoguiding, planetarium, scheduler, autofocuser you name it, like Ekos.? So far it has not disappointed.? ?You would have to run it on Linux though,? a small Pi that you can attach to your OTA along with a powered USB hub, 12 to 5 V converter like I did, just 1 cable down to the controller and one to power.? Also, it's easier getting help online than when you mix various software products.? Maybe something to think about when you run into more integration problems.
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Has anyone on this forum tried the staraid tracking device on either a GM8 or GM8/11.? Having problem with initialization for tracking and wondering it's a communications issue or tied to backlash or other issues.
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Re: What result I can get with the current OPW in my old G11?
Andre,
You are not buying a Rolls Royce or a Bentley auto, or an AP or 10-Micron, etc. mount. You are buying a stock mount.? Each mount maker has its own unique design qualities that set it apart from the rest of the market.??
You must assess the suitability of the mount you bought for your purposes -- your telescope, your camera, your imaging desires for perfection.
If you find the stock mount does not meet your expectations, you can either ? ?do not make any changes and return it for a refund ? ?decide to upgrade its parts to more superior ones
The stock G11 or GM8 mount does not have any guarantee on its PE.? It does not have any published spec on its worm bearings or other parts.
The mounts vary in performance.? The mounts are not all tested by the factory under the stars for PE performance.? Many owners have obtained about 1 arcsec RMS PE on their G11 mounts, and about 2X that for the GM8 drive.? I would say this is proven...possible, but not guaranteed.?? ?? In this group, other owners are explaining what we have done to obtain superior performance from our stock mounts. That is why you see a large variation in approaches, with new gearboxes, bearings, lubricants, adjustments, and even homemade OPW systems and stepper motor systems.?? This is considered by us owners to be another of the great challenges of this hobby.?? Do not take any advice as gospel; your mount may have a different issue than other owners have faced, or it may have the same common issues that many mounts have experienced.? However, the company does change its designs, as its website says "
ALL SPECIFICATIONS MAY AND WILL CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE? "??
The stock parts that Losmandy offers are also subject to design changes.? For example, the original OPW was long, bolted on the gearbox, and had 3 worm bearings.? Later OPW were shorter, have 2 bearings, and do not attach the gearbox.? Still later mounts came tucked motors and after that came the SLW spring loaded worm version.? Each modification in design was intended to solve some prior issue.? ?We know that new changes have good intentions.? Only testing can show if those intentions are realized.??
For those with considerably more financial resources, there are mounts of much higher precision available, at their cost point.
Enjoy the many challenges of this great hobby.? I would not expect perfection from any mount, any telescope, any camera, or any software.? New products and new inventions come on the market regularly.? If there were a perfect unit, there would be no further inventions.?? Perfection lies in the future...not the present.? You are part of the future improvements if you find better approaches than those reported already.
Stay well and enjoy the journey forward,
Michael
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 7:44 AM GuitsBoy < guitsboy@...> wrote:
Hi Andre -
If you purchased a one piece worm block with high precision worm,
and it came assembled with bearings, then you should be fine on
that axis.? As far as I know, Losmandy only seems to have one tier
of bearings.? However for the HP brass worm you purchased alone,
you may want to replace the old bearings on that axis.?
The Losmandy bearings are indeed high quality, and as best I can
figure they are ABEC7 japan made parts (EZO brand, I believe).?
However I have had very good luck with inexpensive PGN? R4
bearings (ABEC 5) from amazon, I believe they were $10 for a
sleeve of ten.? There are a number of other sources for ABEC5 and
ABEC7 bearings, hopefully that ship to your location.
As for replacing the bearings, I found putting my old two piece
bearing block in the toaster oven for five minutes at 325? F
allowed them to drop right out, as the aluminum bearing block
expands more than the steel cartridge bearing.? It was much easier
than trying to press/pull them out.
On 7/30/2021 10:27 AM, andre_moutinho
wrote:
Hi
John,
?
Thanks
for your reply.
>>If you just ordered new ones from
Losmandy, you should be OK
?
I did not understand this. I have ordered
the OPW that currently comes with new bearings. So I should
have ordered other higher quality bearings from Losmandy? The
bearings that comes with the OPW are not good enough?
?
Best
Regards
Andre
?
?
De:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Em
nome de John Kmetz
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 29 de julho de 2021 22:53
Para: [email protected]
Assunto: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] What result I can
get with the current OPW in my old G11?
?
On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 08:50 AM,
andre_moutinho wrote:
You say I need replace the just acquired
OPW bearings?
Andre,
Most people who do a mount rebuild usually replace the
bearings at the same time. They are inexpensive and therefore
disposable. If you just ordered new ones from Losmandy, you
should be OK. When inserting into the worm block, use care to
press in evenly with pressure or gently tapping on the outside
race only. If you press on the inside you can bend them, or if
inserted on an angle, they can be warped out of round, and you
can create the dreaded 76 second error, where the balls are
not riding smoothly between the inner and outer races.
Also the bearing should slide smoothly with finger pressure
over the brass worm and should not be forced in or hammered
in. One new brass worm I received was very slightly oversized,
and I used 400 mesh sandpaper to gently twist and polish the
end down until the bearing would fit over.?
Usually I have several new bearings on hand, just in case of
any mistake, or possible damage during insertion, or guiding
errors that could develop later.
Best Regards,
John
|
Re: What result I can get with the current OPW in my old G11?
Hi Andre -
If you purchased a one piece worm block with high precision worm,
and it came assembled with bearings, then you should be fine on
that axis.? As far as I know, Losmandy only seems to have one tier
of bearings.? However for the HP brass worm you purchased alone,
you may want to replace the old bearings on that axis.?
The Losmandy bearings are indeed high quality, and as best I can
figure they are ABEC7 japan made parts (EZO brand, I believe).?
However I have had very good luck with inexpensive PGN? R4
bearings (ABEC 5) from amazon, I believe they were $10 for a
sleeve of ten.? There are a number of other sources for ABEC5 and
ABEC7 bearings, hopefully that ship to your location.
As for replacing the bearings, I found putting my old two piece
bearing block in the toaster oven for five minutes at 325? F
allowed them to drop right out, as the aluminum bearing block
expands more than the steel cartridge bearing.? It was much easier
than trying to press/pull them out.
On 7/30/2021 10:27 AM, andre_moutinho
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi
John,
?
Thanks
for your reply.
>>If you just ordered new ones from
Losmandy, you should be OK
?
I did not understand this. I have ordered
the OPW that currently comes with new bearings. So I should
have ordered other higher quality bearings from Losmandy? The
bearings that comes with the OPW are not good enough?
?
Best
Regards
Andre
?
?
De:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Em
nome de John Kmetz
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 29 de julho de 2021 22:53
Para: [email protected]
Assunto: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] What result I can
get with the current OPW in my old G11?
?
On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 08:50 AM,
andre_moutinho wrote:
You say I need replace the just acquired
OPW bearings?
Andre,
Most people who do a mount rebuild usually replace the
bearings at the same time. They are inexpensive and therefore
disposable. If you just ordered new ones from Losmandy, you
should be OK. When inserting into the worm block, use care to
press in evenly with pressure or gently tapping on the outside
race only. If you press on the inside you can bend them, or if
inserted on an angle, they can be warped out of round, and you
can create the dreaded 76 second error, where the balls are
not riding smoothly between the inner and outer races.
Also the bearing should slide smoothly with finger pressure
over the brass worm and should not be forced in or hammered
in. One new brass worm I received was very slightly oversized,
and I used 400 mesh sandpaper to gently twist and polish the
end down until the bearing would fit over.?
Usually I have several new bearings on hand, just in case of
any mistake, or possible damage during insertion, or guiding
errors that could develop later.
Best Regards,
John
|
Re: What result I can get with the current OPW in my old G11?
Hi John, ? Thanks for your reply. >>If you just ordered new ones from Losmandy, you should be OK ? I did not understand this. I have ordered the OPW that currently comes with new bearings. So I should have ordered other higher quality bearings from Losmandy? The bearings that comes with the OPW are not good enough? ? Best Regards Andre ? ? De: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Em nome de John Kmetz
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 29 de julho de 2021 22:53
Para: [email protected]
Assunto: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] What result I can get with the current OPW in my old G11? ? On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 08:50 AM, andre_moutinho wrote: You say I need replace the just acquired OPW bearings?
Andre,
Most people who do a mount rebuild usually replace the bearings at the same time. They are inexpensive and therefore disposable. If you just ordered new ones from Losmandy, you should be OK. When inserting into the worm block, use care to press in evenly with pressure or gently tapping on the outside race only. If you press on the inside you can bend them, or if inserted on an angle, they can be warped out of round, and you can create the dreaded 76 second error, where the balls are not riding smoothly between the inner and outer races.
Also the bearing should slide smoothly with finger pressure over the brass worm and should not be forced in or hammered in. One new brass worm I received was very slightly oversized, and I used 400 mesh sandpaper to gently twist and polish the end down until the bearing would fit over.?
Usually I have several new bearings on hand, just in case of any mistake, or possible damage during insertion, or guiding errors that could develop later.
Best Regards,
John
|
Re: Runaway slew while using PHD2
Hi Alan,
Sounds like PHD isn't recognizing the error that the driver is returning when PHD is trying to guide during slew. Can you please upload the ASCOM log for this session? Instructions .
Regards,
? ?-Paul
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 05:10 AM, alan137 wrote:
update to say I tested the new driver for a few days now.
Good: it no longer does the run-away slew when guiding and issuing GOTO at the same time
Bad: PHD no longer recognizes that the mount has slewed and beeps and flashes red.
After a while, I start to get "serial communication errors"? from programs that talk to the mount.? For example, when I use NINA to platesolve and sync, there will be this error and NINA crashes out.
|
Re: Runaway slew while using PHD2
Hi Alan,
That (loss of comm) is weird.
You have a new Gemini-2.??
It has multiple connection methods: ? 1. USB A to B can be used, using ? ? ?a) the G-2 USB serial port internal USB driver ? ? ?b) the G-2 serial port and an external USB to serial port device like G-1 uses ?? ? 2. Cat5 cable can also be used...not available on a G-1.
It is important to figure out if this a Nina problem or an ASCOM problem....or a G-2 comm problem.? ??
Best of luck!
Michael?
update to say I tested the new driver for a few days now.
Good: it no longer does the run-away slew when guiding and issuing GOTO at the same time
Bad: PHD no longer recognizes that the mount has slewed and beeps and flashes red.
After a while, I start to get "serial communication errors"? from programs that talk to the mount.? For example, when I use NINA to platesolve and sync, there will be this error and NINA crashes out.
|
Re: Runaway slew while using PHD2
update to say I tested the new driver for a few days now.
Good: it no longer does the run-away slew when guiding and issuing GOTO at the same time
Bad: PHD no longer recognizes that the mount has slewed and beeps and flashes red.
After a while, I start to get "serial communication errors"? from programs that talk to the mount.? For example, when I use NINA to platesolve and sync, there will be this error and NINA crashes out.
|
Michael Herman
Paul Kanevsky