Russ,
Is you mount in the telescope CWD position when you do a cold start?
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On 20 Jan 2021, at 11:25:38 am, Russ via < njrusty@...> wrote:
I am so damn furious with my mount right now!!? I had to do a cold restart and verified my site info; Lat, Long and time.? Rebooted Mount and verify settings are saved and correct.
1)? I tell the mount to go to Betelgeuse (which is in the SouthEast sky right now).? But the mount slews to SouthWest; which of course is way off.? Shouldn't it be much closer then this????
2)? When I then go to the Gemini Software and try to enter my LAT/LONG, it will not allow me to enter any numbers.? What the HELL???
3)? When I exit the Gemini Software and look at my hand controller, the Site information is all zeroed out!!
I am beyond furious that after 2 weeks of crap skies, the first night of clear skies I run into this crap!!!
Any help will be appreciated!!!!
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I know this sounds crazy, but check that you do not have the RA and Dec cables switched. ?I have done this. ?More than once.?
Check your time zone. ?I found that setting the time zone to 00, and the time to Greenwich time cleared up issues with daylight savings, etc.. ? that is recommended by the Gemini II website.
jmd
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Thanks Brian.? I have a cheat sheet created identifying exactly those checks and I verified a number of time all setting are correct (via handheld).? Going back outside again and starting all over.? I compared my cheat sheet to your comments above and verified I have those exact settings.
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Hi Russ
Sorry to hear this, that sounds super frustrating
It's definitely sounding like a setting somewhere, so here are some ideas:
First, I recommend using the hand controller to enter your settings, just to eliminate one variable
If your mount is slewing exactly 90 degrees opposite it may be you have the wrong mount type selected? double-check that under Menu->Mount->Type
. I've also recently had a couple customers with similar issues thinking they had a G11 when they had a GM811
Also confirm you have the correct gearing?under Menu->Mount->Gearing and compare to this table:
Otherwise the site/time/location are often culprits, use the address tool to get accurate info: ??
some typical errors include: not putting negative sign "-" in front of the longitude (if you are in US) wrong timezone offset(needs to account for daylight savings too, right now pacific time is -8, eastern is -5) using decimal instead of HH:MM when entering time info not using 24 hour time format
Confused here.? After entering Site Lat, Long and Time, I would expect any mount to at least slew to an area of the sky 'near' the target first (I did complete an excellent polar alignment last night, prior to Cold Start tonight).? Are you saying that even though the mount is like 90 degrees away from target, I still need to manual slew to target and start modeling from there?????
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Confused here.? After entering Site Lat, Long and Time, I would expect any mount to at least slew to an area of the sky 'near' the target first (I did complete an excellent polar alignment last night, prior to Cold Start tonight).? Are you saying that even though the mount is like 90 degrees away from target, I still need to manual slew to target and start modeling from there?????
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Have you polar aligned it and built a pointing model as yet? And cold starting it wipes the slate clean. I had weird problems like yours when I got started with the mount. But the Gemini does need to know where it is and where the mount goes when given a target. And if that isn't your cup of tea, its possible to build the pointing model through a plate solving tool like Astrotortilla (what I used). You tell the mount where to go... take an image and have it solved. Most of these tools will solve the image and slew to a less wrong location. Its relatively painless.
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I am so damn furious with my mount right now!!? I had to do a cold restart and verified my site info; Lat, Long and time.? Rebooted Mount and verify settings are saved and correct.
1)? I tell the mount to go to Betelgeuse (which is in the SouthEast sky right now).? But the mount slews to SouthWest; which of course is way off.? Shouldn't it be much closer then this????
2)? When I then go to the Gemini Telescope Software and try to enter my LAT/LONG, it will not allow me to enter any numbers.? What the HELL???
3)? When I exit the Gemini Software and look at my hand controller, the Site information is all zeroed out!!
I am beyond furious that after 2 weeks of crap skies, the first night of clear skies I run into this crap!!!
Any help will be appreciated!!!!
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Re: G11G and Polar Alignment
You want the mount ON and tracking at sidereal
otherwise your stars will blur and/or lose their position and your Polar alignment will suffer
Brian
I used SharpCap Polar Alignment tool last night for the first time and my PA down to like 10 seconds showing Excellent result.? Today, I looked at somemore YouTube videos and thought I heard someone state the mount should be 'off' when using SharpCap for PA.??
Is that a true statement and if so (besides powering off the mount), what tracking should be used when using SharpCap to do PA???
Thanks,
Russ
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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I used SharpCap Polar Alignment tool last night for the first time and my PA down to like 10 seconds showing Excellent result.? Today, I looked at somemore YouTube videos and thought I heard someone state the mount should be 'off' when using SharpCap for PA.??
Is that a true statement and if so (besides powering off the mount), what tracking should be used when using SharpCap to do PA???
Thanks,
Russ
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Re: Using Stellarium to Align/Synch on a Bright Star [was: Slewing to target strangely]
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 03:40 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
? I normally don't use the bright star list ... instead I use Stellarium to pick my align points and Synch, or Add Additional Align once I recenter.? For this purpose the Ascom Gemini.net applet is excellent.? ?I might align to a bright small planet like Mars or something.? Or a bright globular cluster.??
Michael Your alternative approach using Stellarium in combination with the Ascom Gemini.net applet to select Bright Stars to align/synch your G11/G-1 on is something I am very interested in but have yet to fathom out how the exact steps needed to achieve this. Would it much trouble for you to briefly outline the steps you use - I would be very grateful. I have my G-1 controller connected to my Windows computer via a serial to usb adapter and have activated the telescope control plug-in within Stellarium but have yet to try moving the mount using this arrangement. The telescope icon on the Stellarium sceen moves to reflect positioning of the scope made using the Losmandy Hand Controller but my hope is to do this from the comfort of my lounge. Thanks for any information. Terry
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great detail! i'll have to check this out more closely
This is around an area passing close to the zenith here about half way between orion and the southern cross. It's not too far from Canopus. There's a lot of very faint stuff in there. More often than not it's imaged in widefield because there are supernova remnants similar to cygnus. This a close up in a brighter region next to the pencil nebula NGC2736. The only thing you're able to see visually would be the bright star in the center of the field. This about 5.5h of integration in 10min exposure with a QHY9 FSQ106N and a duo band filter.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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This is around an area passing close to the zenith here about half way between orion and the southern cross. It's not too far from Canopus. There's a lot of very faint stuff in there. More often than not it's imaged in widefield because there are supernova remnants similar to cygnus. This a close up in a brighter region next to the pencil nebula NGC2736. The only thing you're able to see visually would be the bright star in the center of the field. This about 5.5h of integration in 10min exposure with a QHY9 FSQ106N and a duo band filter.
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Re: Pole master on G11 with Digital Drives
You know this is a funny issue. Years ago when I got the PoleMaster there were issues with the drivers. It was related to power saving features of the PC but a workaround I found that worked was to open a video of anything in the background and for some reason the PM software worked fine and did not lock up anymore as long as the video was playing.? I think this was fixed with later drivers but I don't recall which one I don't think it has need changed in a few years now so it should be stable. Worth trying it out, you can do this inside and just see how long the camera keeps working to see if this fixes the issue for you. Worked for me but I have been using SharpCap for long enough I don't remember this problem well.?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Entering HIP Star Coordinates Using Hand Controller?
Ken
Yes! It worked. There's a little action button that you have to select to display the html list and its default is a list that you can't download in Android. Unless you know to put in ** and stl you won't find?¦²562?
Thanks
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Ken Walker <kwalker501@...> To: Losmandy_users < [email protected]> Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2021 07:49 PM Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Entering HIP Star Coordinates Using Hand Controller? Maybe this would help ,haven't navigated this in years but used it for Annotation in PixInsight.
http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/
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Re: Entering HIP Star Coordinates Using Hand Controller?
Just jumping back into this post.? I want to thank everybody for replying and Brian for posting his HIP database.? Thanks everybody...!
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>>>
I was able to get a break in the clouds tonight and using SharpCap and it Polar Alignment tool, adjust my PA to obtain excellent results and it only took a few minutes.
sharpcap is a great tool for polar alignment.?
if that is what you intended to do re: your previous comments, yes perfect :)
Thanks for the info.? I was able to get a break in the clouds tonight and using SharpCap and it Polar Alignment tool, adjust my PA to obtain excellent results and it only took a few minutes.? Will verify these results in a few days when it actually does get clear later this week.? Will do some drift alignment and other tests to see just how well the PA actually is.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Thanks for the info.? I was able to get a break in the clouds tonight and using SharpCap and it Polar Alignment tool, adjust my PA to obtain excellent results and it only took a few minutes.? Will verify these results in a few days when it actually does get clear later this week.? Will do some drift alignment and other tests to see just how well the PA actually is.
I've literally spend many, many nights doing drift alignment due to the fact I can barely see Polaris due to the slope of my observatory roof getting in way.? Luckily with SharpCap, I only need to get close to obtain the initial image before I rotate the G11G, 90 degrees for secondary image.? If this indeed does work great, I will be thrilled!!!!!
Now if I can only fix my ROR issue, I will be set.? Roof seems to be 'twisting' during its opening/closing now.? May have to brace it using 2x4s and X pattern inside roof.
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Re: Slewing to target strangely
No problem. We, as a group, are at the limit of allocated storage space (1GB). This means that as new files are posted, older ones will be deleted. I¡¯ll remove the MAPUG file, as I assume it¡¯s available elsewhere on the web. Feel free to post a link to it if it might be useful to others.
Regards,
? ? ?-Paul
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 04:33 PM, Derek C Breit wrote:
My Fault!
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I asked for it because I stupidly offered to help someone out.. One of the dumber things I have done in a very long time..
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Instead I will do what I should have done right off the bat.. That is tell to defork and buy a G11.. I am quite happy someone convinced me to do it and I am sure they would be too..
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Derek
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On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 03:20 PM, Russ wrote:
I loaded a zip file of the MAPUG archieve into the 'FILES' folder.
Can I ask why? MAPUG was dedicated to Meade/LX200 equipment and had nothing to do with Losmandy, no?
Regards,
? ? -Paul?
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Re: Clean and Lube G11 Gears
Hi gang,
All the comments have been good. You can lube everything but not the clutch friction surfaces.? Those should be kept dry and clean.
The factory recommends a heavy grease asctgeybyse in assembling new mounts, but most owners say this will separate over?time and elevated temperature. The lighter volatile part will creep into the clutch region and capillary action will pull it into those friction surfaces.? So most owners have recommended SuperLube multipurpose grease with Syncolon, a synthetic teflon, that (it's ads say) won't separate.??
For those imaging, see the PDF about a high friction clutch pad type ..very beneficial for imaging work.? But those higher friction clutches won't slip.? So don't try pushing the mount around if you use them ...only use the motors.? You can balance DEC with the clutch loose and the counterweight bar horizontal, but you balance RA by looking at the DC power amps going into the Gemini motors when you sleep in opposite directions.??
(I have a power supply that bousts the output voltage to a safe 17V, boosting torque by 44% over a 12V supply.? Better: this supply shows you the amps being used by Gemini and it's motors, and better still the input is totally polarity protected.? Great for battery use where you might put in the wrong connection.)
When you reassemble:
The key thing is to reduce Periodic Error (PE). All the drive parts can contribute to PE.? They are:
1. The worm.? You show a brass worm, which is the "precision brass worm".? You have one on RA and one on DEC. Only the RA worm matters for PE because that's the clock drive for the RA.? So I recommend you test the PE of each worm (when it is on RA of course) and pick the one that gives you lowest PE for the RA drive.
2. The Oldham Coupler.? (Even the G11 tucked motor drive has an Oldgsm coupler!) This must be exactly lined up, with ideally zero movement of the center white plastic part as the RA worm axis turns.? You also want no angle between the gearbox drive axis and the worm axis.? Any angle there will cause the worm to speed up and slow down, which will look exactly like worm PE. There are other couplers that may have no PE, but there is little space to install a better variety.? I've been trying!
So just do your best to line up the input and output shafts.? For me, I had to use a thin rat-tail file to slot or enlarge the gearbox mounting holes, to wiggle the gearbox position to the best location.??
If you have a tucked motor system, I am unsure how you adjust that Oldham coupler alignment.? The gearbox is not driving the Oldham coupler directly...the gearbox drives an outer transfer gear, and that drives an inner transfer gear on a separate shaft.? That shaft end drives the Oldham coupler that drives the worm.? On the earlier straight out motor and gearbox the gearbox location is very accessible.??
3. The gearbox.? The plastic gearbox over time and wear can misbehave.? There is a clear signature from the 1st to 2nd internal gear that has a 1/7.5 gear ratio.? If there is a problem with that set of gears, you find a 1/7.5 worm period oscillation in RA, and you can detect that in a PE evaluation.? The PEC implementation was only designed (so far) to work on integer fractions of a worm period...but a 1/7.5 repeats every 2 worm cycles....so PEC cannot cover up a bad plastic gearbox problem.? See the attached PDF for ideas on replacing the plastic gearbox with a metal one.? The metal one has only integer gear ratios...so PEC would work if necessary.?? New plastic gearboxes are about $35 from the factory.
See the other attached PDF about ways to improve the mount drive behavior.? One key is to eliminate worm side to side movement, by constraining the worm.? If temperature never changed, the worm blocks alone could be locked in place to hold the worm bearings tight.? But trmperatures do change.? I use a Belleville R4 size spring washer and install one behind every "far" worm bearing (RA and DEC) and I polish down the OD of these work bearings so they can slide along the worm block mounting cylinder, like a piston.? The spring keeps the worm and it's bearings tight against the Oldham coupler end.??
The factory recommends the Okdham coupler be loose, but I allow the spring at the far end to keep the Oldham coupler parts compressed.??
That's about it.? See the attached for thoughts about improvements.
All the best, and everyone stay well and safe.??
P.S. The new virus strain is predicted to spread twice as fast and result in twice the fatalities.? We must increase our caution level over the coming months... don't let your guard down.??
Michael
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 2:49 PM Russell Milton < russmilt@...> wrote: Many thanks for all the insight that you have offered. I particularly like the very simple solution offered by Derek - that is remove the worm assembly to give access to the worm-gear for cleaning. But I opted for an even simpler solution. I recalled that the gears stalled while going to first alignment star in the east. So in daylight with no telescope or counterweight/shaft installed, I chose an alignment star?west of the meridian, in this case Vega. It began slewing to that position without stalling. That exposed the portion of the worm-gear (AKA ring-gear) that had the grit in grease, causing the problem. Then I used a plastic tooth pick and a toothbrush to clean the offending material off the gear. After that it was able to slew to alignment stars on both sides of the meridian. It even did a decent job of pointing at the Moon, which was visible in the afternoon sky, high in the southeast. So problem solved.
Best Regards to All,
Russ
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On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 02:46 PM, Russ wrote:
I understand that but CWD when all bubbles leveled, technically the scope should be pointed at NCP.? Based on a good polar alignment and the scope parked at CWD.
My thought process is as follows (FYI; I do not have a polar alignment camera).
? If a polar alignment camera is installed into a G11G (parked at CWD) and you obtain a polar alignment by adjust the mount accordingly, then, wouldn't any telescope/camera then attached to the mount (parked at CWD) would now be at? polar alignment?
I am asking because once I obtain a PA, I want to later be able to just use my imaging camera to verify later that PA is actually achieved using an Android App to compare NCP with current crosshair in camera.
Hi Russ,? No, it doesn't work that way. The reason is mostly having to do with the slight misalignments between the mount's mechanical axis which is what you are aligning with the NCP when using a polar scope or PoleMaster camera and software and the actual optical tube in the mount saddle. This is orthogonal misalignment, you can mechanically correct this but there is no good reason to do so as this correction is a part of what the Gemini controller does when it builds the model during mount alignment. The Gemini alignment model is used to compensate for errors in the optical tube alignment and mount mechanicals. So you do not need to mechanically correct the orthogonal misalignment using shims between the dovetail and scope rings like we used to do back in the day thank heavens!? -- Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
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Chip Louie
Paul Kanevsky
Michael Herman