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So, this has my attention, mine is set to Visual also even though I have not officially done any guiding yet. I am wondering what the differences are between the 3 settings.

No it’s good you replied with a fix rather than leaving the thread “unfinished”. ? This way others can gain knowledge. ? Way too many threads remain “incomplete”! ??

There will be many others, ?following the thread and none of what you have done is wasted! ? It’s like Edison …..finding 1000 ways not to make a light bulb last! ? Then that one way that works! ? Gold!

well done
cheers
--
Brendan

The center transfer gear on the RA axis (from motor to worm) on my G11T has a lot of tilt play even though the screw is tight. I tried to add a washer but that just prevents the gear from rotating. Is the tilt play normal?

On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 09:55 AM, Sean wrote:

Hi Paul,?

I feel kind of foolish now, I just checked the virtual HC and Visual was selected. I changed that to Photo. After the firmware downgrade all my settings were intact; IP, gateway, NTP, Site, time, etc. so I never would have thought to check that.? Possible we may have some clear enough skies tomorrow evening, so I may check first with 5.22, if everything is back to normal then I may do the L6 firmware update and run the Troubleshooting Report.?

Don’t neglect recalibrating the guider. That would tell you right away if there are any issues with guiding in both axes and is a good thing to do after updating software or firmware.

Hi Paul,?

I feel kind of foolish now, I just checked the virtual HC and Visual was selected. I changed that to Photo. After the firmware downgrade all my settings were intact; IP, gateway, NTP, Site, time, etc. so I never would have thought to check that.? Possible we may have some clear enough skies tomorrow evening, so I may check first with 5.22, if everything is back to normal then I may do the L6 firmware update and run the Troubleshooting Report.?

Hi Sean.

"Cannot guide" can have many explanations. One is that you have visual mode set, which ignores guide commands. Another is that you didn't recalibrate the guider. If you were able to calibrate the guider after downgrading to L5, then the mount most certainly can guide, since calibration uses guide commands and the issue you observed is elsewhere.

I'd recommend that you upgrade back to L6, and simply try to figure out what settings need to be corrected. You can always re-program PIC controllers, but I would be surprised if that was causing your issue with NINA not recentering.

With these mounts and complex stacks of software, you do need to learn some troubleshooting skills. There are logs that are generated by NINA, ASCOM and Gemini that can help pinpoint the problem.? In fact, ASCOM driver has a feature that will collect all the settings and logs in one file and allow you to upload it for others to check. You can do this now, or after updating to L6.? From ASCOM virtual HC, connect to Gemini, then select Setup menu -> Troubleshooting Report. Select all the options, and press Collect and Save button. You'll be prompted for where to save the file. Save it on hard disk, and then upload it to a file sharing service, like DropBox or Box.com and share the link here.

I'm not going to be able to get to take a look until later in the week, but maybe others can take a look if you upload it. All that said, of course you should contact Losmandy for support if you feel you are not getting anywhere.

Regards,

? ?-Paul

No sooner had I posted the "good" news that I realized it is now worse that before. I can not guide.


Starts out first few seconds, and then as you can see above it just goes to hell in a hand basket. I have to wonder, did the firmware update on the servo basically break my system? It seems at this point my choice is to either buy a new Gemini controller or send this in for service however long that would take. I thoroughly regret doing this L6 upgrade myself, worst decision I have made in a long time.

Edit: Also forgot, I think there is a problem with the motors/gear/worm or something. When I select to go to CWD, the DEC does not fully rotate into position. It parked at 10' when it should have been 0'. Before when I stopped the guide attempt and went to check polar alignment it went into a weird position as well when sent to CWD.?

As it became dark this evening I went out to test. It was not fully dark out, and I did not polar align. I slewed to M81 and it solved and corrected in 3 tries. Next was M101, this time however it too 4 tries. Parked mount at CWD and did polar alignment, and went back to M101. Again it took 3 times, solved, corrected both RA and DEC.

So, guess my problem was L6. Now I do not know what to do next. Should I reflash to L6 and modify something, should I just gather some info from Gemini and post here??

I would test one thing at a time. Since you reverted to L5 already, go ahead and test with that before trying something different. What Doug (Wayback) suggested shouldn't make a difference, but you can certainly try it -- the :p0# command is the same as unchecking 'Gemini expects J2000 coordinates' in the ASCOM driver, which I think you've tried. But, since we are dealing with some strange behavior, you can certainly try the :p0# command, even with L5.

Regards,

? ?-Paul

On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 11:49 AM, Sean wrote:

On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 09:55 AM, Paul Kanevsky wrote:

Hi Sean, you continue to see some strange behavior, so there may be something to the SD card and settings needing a full reset. I wouldn't do it just yet. From your NINA platesolving results, it appears that DEC wasn't moving at all, while RA was correcting properly. Since the original error was fairly small in DEC, the only reason I can think of for DEC not to correct is worm/gear backlash. Let's see if the downgraded L5 firmware will help, but do check what TVC (backlash compensation) setting you're using. That may need to be adjusted when migrating to L6 due the 4x smaller steps with higher encoder resolution.

?

Paul,

I should point out that since the upgrade I have been getting a click sound when mount moves/stops. This was most noticeable when the repeated plate solving attempts were made in a quicker succession. The sound appears to come from the Gemini box and not the actual motors. Yesterday when I re-uploaded L5 I did do a slew, and did not hear the click.

As for TVC, I don't know anything about this. I looked at the web UI and do see DEC DEC TVC Step Count is set to "5".?
It looks like tonight around 10PM CST I should be able to at least test (though not clear enough to image I should still be able to move and platesolve). If the L5 (5.22) I have no idea whether I should attempt to go back to L6 and see if maybe a setting needs change.?

On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 08:55 AM, Sean wrote:

John,

So late last night I decided to open GFU and selected the 5.21. Something downloaded, I restarted Gemini and it updated something. But upon being loaded it still said 6.02. This morning I used the advanced option to upload file "NewGem-Aug-16-2018.zip" you linked, and this time it worked. Mainboard is 5.22, Servos just shows checkmark, but hand controller is still 1.6. I did do a slew to test, obviously could not plate solve, but did not hear the click sound. It looks like maybe Sunday I might be able to test if clouds are not too bad.

Good luck with the next outing, Sean. I suppose the HC 1.6 will still work, but I have not tried them in combination. The older version will not show the firmware versions on the HC info screen. You already have some advice about Dec not turning for a while.?

CS,

John
--
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Losmandy G11G2 on pier; refurbed Losmandy G11 with OnStep controller; SkyShed design roll-off observatory; ZWO ASI2600MM-P; ZWO ASI071MC; Sky-Watcher Esprit 100 ED with field flattener; Celestron C925 Edge HD with 0.7XFR, William Optics Zenithstar 61 APO; PHD2, Sequence Generator Pro and PixInsight user

On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 04:02 AM, Sean wrote:

? ? ?05/24/2024 22:33:06 ? ? ? ?14:03:12 ? ?54° 13' 57" ? ?00° 06' 59"? ? ? ? ? ??00:00:01? ? ? 00° 06' 59" ? ?10.27? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?295.33? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 179.6327463348333

Sean,

This looks similar to a rare issue the occurred on my Gemini-2 board.? Something observed using ASIAIR during beta which David and Rene resolved for me.? My ASIARI would Go-To a target, and would get very near, attempt to adjust, and fail to acquire the target by some sub-minute amount.? ?David Partridge sent a note where Rene had suggested I send the controller a :p0# command.

The similarity here, to my case, seen using the Target, JNow and J2000 references. From SkySafari (to limit possible data sources difference non stellar and dates) the JNow and J2000 positions of M101 on SkySafari equate to:? JNow = 14:04:05 / +54:13:54 and J2000 = 14:03:12 / +54:21:04.? {colored to hopefully make it clearer}

Notice that on NINA's corrected position in the second line, the RA (basically) matches the J2000 value (14:03:12 versus 14:03:12) but the DEC value (basically) matches the JNow value (+54:13:57 versus +54:13:54).? An apparent split J2000/JNow address instead of a JNow/JNow for the RA/DEC components.? Resulting in NINA trying again.

My sending this command to Gemini-2 straightened out the issue within the Gemin-2 logic.? I've never seen the behavior since.??Try also sending a :p0# command.? Easiest way, with ASCOM connected to the mount to use the ASCOM App "Setup"->"Command Terminal" to? Type the command :p0# into the console window and press Enter.? Something small, see if the behavior changes.
?
Note too that no one else saw this behavior, the conclusion being, I likely did something or left something out on conversion.??

Regards,
Doug

On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 08:55 AM, Sean wrote:

So late last night I decided to open GFU and selected the 5.21. Something downloaded, I restarted Gemini and it updated something. But upon being loaded it still said 6.02. This morning I used the advanced option to upload file "NewGem-Aug-16-2018.zip" you linked, and this time it worked. Mainboard is 5.22, Servos just shows checkmark, but hand controller is still 1.6. I did do a slew to test, obviously could not plate solve, but did not hear the click sound. It looks like maybe Sunday I might be able to test if clouds are not too bad.

Hi Sean, you continue to see some strange behavior, so there may be something to the SD card and settings needing a full reset. I wouldn't do it just yet. From your NINA platesolving results, it appears that DEC wasn't moving at all, while RA was correcting properly. Since the original error was fairly small in DEC, the only reason I can think of for DEC not to correct is worm/gear backlash. Let's see if the downgraded L5 firmware will help, but do check what TVC (backlash compensation) setting you're using. That may need to be adjusted when migrating to L6 due the 4x smaller steps with higher encoder resolution.

On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 07:07 AM, John Kmetz wrote:

If the GFU has 5.2, that should be easily selected. The Beta ware for L5 I used had some advantages over some older L5's for runaway slews, but I am now not sure if L5.2 is the same. I don't recall using format SD card whenever I did any updates, so I will let others comment there.? Paul is the software expert; I am just another L6 tester and can share my experiences in that regard.? But your issues seem to be unique from most of the other comments I've read in the forums before. Good luck!

John,

So late last night I decided to open GFU and selected the 5.21. Something downloaded, I restarted Gemini and it updated something. But upon being loaded it still said 6.02. This morning I used the advanced option to upload file "NewGem-Aug-16-2018.zip" you linked, and this time it worked. Mainboard is 5.22, Servos just shows checkmark, but hand controller is still 1.6. I did do a slew to test, obviously could not plate solve, but did not hear the click sound. It looks like maybe Sunday I might be able to test if clouds are not too bad.

Hi Sean,

If the GFU has 5.2, that should be easily selected. The Beta ware for L5 I used had some advantages over some older L5's for runaway slews, but I am now not sure if L5.2 is the same. I don't recall using format SD card whenever I did any updates, so I will let others comment there.? Paul is the software expert; I am just another L6 tester and can share my experiences in that regard.? But your issues seem to be unique from most of the other comments I've read in the forums before. Good luck!

John
--
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Losmandy G11G2 on pier; refurbed Losmandy G11 with OnStep controller; SkyShed design roll-off observatory; ZWO ASI2600MM-P; ZWO ASI071MC; Sky-Watcher Esprit 100 ED with field flattener; Celestron C925 Edge HD with 0.7XFR, William Optics Zenithstar 61 APO; PHD2, Sequence Generator Pro and PixInsight user

On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 12:02 AM, John Kmetz wrote:

But offhand I'm not sure why your mount would go to a target and start drifting in Dec unless you had a loose Dec clutch or oily clutch pad. You might also have some backlash with the worm being too loose. But perhaps you can try the software first and then look for hardware problems. A clicking noise can mean a gearbox issue, but you can worry about that a little later.

The clicking only started just post L6 upgrade. I had been imaging for a few weeks without issue.? I should point out, the coordinates listed above are the output from NINA when attempting to center the target. It adjusts the RA but never the DEC. Posted is just the last 3 attempts. For example the first slew to M81?
Time? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? RA? ? ? ? ? ? DEC? ? ? ? ? ? ? Error Distance? ? ? ?RA Error? ? ? ?Dec Error? ? ? RA Error(PX)? ? ? Dec Error(PX)? ? ? Rotation ? ? ?
05/24/2024 22:32:44 ? ? ? ?14:01:14 ? ?54° 16' 18" ? ?00° 17' 58"? ? ? ? ? ? 00:01:59? ? ? 00° 04' 38" ? ?1259.45? ? ? ? ? ? ?195.8? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 179.62234898524582
Nina then attempts to center and fix the error:
05/24/2024 22:33:06 ? ? ? ?14:03:12 ? ?54° 13' 57" ? ?00° 06' 59"? ? ? ? ? ? 00:00:01? ? ? 00° 06' 59" ? ?10.27? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?295.33? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 179.6327463348333
Closer on RA but only slight improvement in DEC. Then it reattempts:
05/24/2024 22:33:22 ? ? ? ?14:03:19 ? ?54° 13' 56" ? ?00° 07' 03"? ? ? ? ? ?-00:00:07? ? ? 00° 06' 59" ? ?-71.62? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?295.66? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?179.63905172891225

I suppose tomorrow I can try to reload older firmware. GFU does have 5.21 available, should I just use that? Should I select "Format SD card" to wipe everything start fresh?

Edit: Wanted to add, in several years of using NINA I did not keep track, but off top of my head usually the framing only has to do 2-3 iterations before it is good. Now it is doing 10 and still off.?

Sean,

Sorry to hear of your ongoing troubles. From what you have said your mount was working well before L6 without mechanical issues. So, you do have the option to change back to see if things improve. I did this a few times when the L6 development was in flux. Perhaps the following files will help you (careful with mount limits, etc. when changing firmware and monitor closely)

[email protected] | Files

[email protected] | Files

You can use the GFU to upload the above to your G2. You need to join the Gemini-II group if you haven't already to access. You can also switch back to the earlier Gemini app as well:



But offhand I'm not sure why your mount would go to a target and start drifting in Dec unless you had a loose Dec clutch or oily clutch pad. You might also have some backlash with the worm being too loose. But perhaps you can try the software first and then look for hardware problems. A clicking noise can mean a gearbox issue, but you can worry about that a little later.

Hope this helps you return to normal.

John

--
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Losmandy G11G2 on pier; refurbed Losmandy G11 with OnStep controller; SkyShed design roll-off observatory; ZWO ASI2600MM-P; ZWO ASI071MC; Sky-Watcher Esprit 100 ED with field flattener; Celestron C925 Edge HD with 0.7XFR, William Optics Zenithstar 61 APO; PHD2, Sequence Generator Pro and PixInsight user

So good news, bad news, and more bad news. Tonight we had clear skies so I went out and did polar alignment, then used NINA to slew to M81. It actually went there, and from the first image I could see the galaxies so it was on target. Almost. Then the first bad news appears. I can get to a target but my Declination will be off, and NINA is not able to correct. Not as bad as before, but still. Here is one small sample:

I tried a different target (M101) and same problem.?
Went back to CWD and power cycled the mount. Restarted and went back to M101 Historically I am used to NINA usually taking 1-2 images to correct. Above is just a sample, it will keep going (I think it gives up at 10 corrections). One thing I did notice now, I hear a clicking sound from my mount when it goes to do these adjustments. Maybe normal, maybe part of change with servo update, dont know. What I do know is that NINA can not seem to make declination adjustments, or the mount is not accepting them or doing them, or other. Still getting the error that NINA & Mount time differ. Unless Gemini is just not displaying it correct, both mount, Windows (with NINA) and my NTP server are all in synch.?

The final bad news may not be so bad. Guiding was the worst I ever saw, almost as bad as when I had my budget cheap mount. But I finally just started a sequence and went inside to write this. I just looked at PHD2 and 0.38 (0.58) error. Before it was like 2.8px error. Still, I thoroughly regret doing this upgrade now, I just do not think it was worth the headache and stress.?

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 08:22 AM, Sean wrote:

Upon reload the network settings did not change.

In L6 release:

If you reserved the Gemini-2 MAC on the local home router then upon start, the router DNS assigned your defined IP for you.? In that case if you want the displayed IP to become Static, uncheck the box to the right of the DNS delay field.

?it would be good to know if I should leave that checked.

The JD2000 option under the Coordinate GoTo represents a per use option for the HC.? ?Because the target Coordinate Input could be J-Now (like from SkySafari) or J2000 (like from a printed chart).? The HC needs the one of the two allowed connotations when invoked or it might apply an unrequired transformation.

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Hello David, I am looking at options to update, if I don't succeed, later in the year I will write here again in case you have time to update to level 6, moving is not easy, I hope everything turns out well, greetings and thank you! !