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Re: Information about Kresy & the Deportations

 

Edward
write to this address

Polish Cultural Foundation, 23 Coleridge Street, Hove, Sussex BN3 5AB, UK

I'm not so sure of the price, but they'll be able to fill you in
what do you think of the story that I've got on my pages

Paul




At 12:42 10/12/2001 -0400, you wrote:
Paul,
??? Thanks for the title of the English translation ( From The Eastern
Borderlands of Poland, Memories of military settlements? 1921-1940 )
It is not in The title there is of course
Stalins Ethnic Cleansing. It is also in the ordering procedure.? There are
references to the Polish version (articles and authors etc) in that URL.
Again, where can I get the ( From The Eastern Borderlands of Poland,
Memories of military settlements? 1921-1940 ) and how much is it.
Thanks
Edward




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Home page;??
Eastern Borderlands of II RP;??
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This message has been checked for all known Viruses
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Information about Kresy & the Deportations

edtar
 

Paul,
Thanks for the title of the English translation ( From The Eastern
Borderlands of Poland, Memories of military settlements 1921-1940 )
It is not in www.StalinsEthnicCleansing.com. The title there is of course
Stalins Ethnic Cleansing. It is also in the ordering procedure. There are
references to the Polish version (articles and authors etc) in that URL.
Again, where can I get the ( From The Eastern Borderlands of Poland,
Memories of military settlements 1921-1940 ) and how much is it.
Thanks
Edward

----- Original Message -----
From: <Paul.Havers@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 3:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy & the Deportations



Edward

The story on my web page isn't in the book. It's a personal recollection
of
Elizabeth's mother
that Elizabeth kindly allowed me to publish.
Both the book titles are at the bottom of the page, the English version is
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----|
| From The Eastern Borderlands of Poland, Memories of military
settlements |
| 1921-1940
|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----|


I do not have the right to question any accounts in these books as my
family didn't have to make that terrible journey.

Paul






To:
<Kresy-Siberia@...>
cc:
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia]
Information about Kresy & the
"edtar" Deportations
<edtar@bellatl
antic.net>

11/10/01 18:11
Please respond
to
Kresy-Siberia






Paul, what is the title of the english version and where did you get it &
how much is it.
The sample story in the site >
is
not in the original books of which there were 2 editions, 1996 of 700 p
and
1998 of 450 p. Janina Stobnik's story does not appear in either. I also
question Tomasz Piesakowski's claim of authorship of the english
translation
of these collective authiorships.
Edward


----- Original Message -----
From: <Paul.Havers@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Cc: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy & the Deportations



Chaps

I've also read this book and can strongly recommend it to others. I only
have the English version
If any one wishes to read a bit of it please have a look at


Paul




To:
<Kresy-Siberia@...>
cc:
Subject: Re:
[Kresy-Siberia]
Information about Kresy & the
Stefan Deportations
Wisniowski
<swisniowski@
px.com.au>

11/10/01
07:00
Please
respond to
Kresy-Siberia






Thanks Ed,
The good news is that I have this book in it's English translation as
well
as the Polish original. It is called "Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing in
Eastern
Poland - Tales of the Deported 1940-1946". It is indeed a valuable
book.
Marek Duchnowski, a recent member of our group, was responsible for
putting
the book on the web - and if you visit the site, I'm sure you will agree
that it is a masterpiece!

Go to www.StalinsEthnicCleansing.com for more information on the English
version and for information on how to order copies. (Marek, this may be
a
good time to get the publishers to accept credit cards and/or to accept
US
funds).

I should also say that I have built a little library of perhaps 15 books
on
this topic in the last year, and one which I found very informative is
by
Jan T. Gross (yes, the same one who later wrote about Jedwabne). it is
called "Revolution from Abroad : The Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western
Ukraine and Western Belorussia". He based his research on the Hoover
Institution archive of testimonies left by the deportees who joined
Anders
Army (like Ed!). Here is the weblink to Amazon books to check it out:


Though it is out of print, they have a used book service where you can
order
it over the web for US$25 and up. I have taken the liberty of appending
a
review of the book, from the Amazon site.
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Brilliant analysis of an ignored event of World War II, May 21, 2000
Reviewer: seydlitz89 from Portugal

The main primary source of this book is a collection of thousands of
handwritten statements collected by the Polish government in exile
when
they
interviewed the surviving Polish citizens released after the 1942
"amnesty" of
those detained by the Soviets after 1939. By careful research,
crosschecking
and comparison with other resources Professor Gross has been able to
produce a
work of exceptional clarity and importance in understanding the
workings
of
Stalinism in particular and totalitarianism in general.

He provides an outline of Soviet occupation policy and methods. The
whole
process seems to have been well planned out, one phase setting up the
conditions to implement the second, which in turn set up the
conditions
for
the third, all this operating within an artificial atmosphere of fear,
chaos
and confusion. An initial period of lawlessness, promoted by the
Soviets
in
order for a rapid collapse of the old order accompanied by the
promoting
of
ethic hatreds among the four main groups- Poles, Ukrainians,
Belorussians
and
Jews, was followed by rapid consolidation of police powers by those
who
owed
their new won power to Soviet authority alone. In the process of
laying
out
this interesting story, Gross adds many interesting insights.

Discussion of social control, prisons and deportation, NKVD
interrogation
methods (including use of female interrogators) and much more provides
a
well
rounded sketch of this particularly brutal episode of Polish history.
I
found
his analysis of the "privatization of the public realm", "the spoiler
state",
"totalitarian language", and Soviet use of family networks to insure
discipline and control illuminating.

Actually the only short coming of this very interesting book is that
is
was
published in 1988 just before the end of the Soviet Union and thus
produced
without the use of the since partially-opened Soviet archives. He only
has
limited information on the Katyn massacres for instance. While this
should not
affect his conclusions or insights, it may give more accurate
statistics
than
those quoted. Perhaps a new revised edition is called for. In the
meantime,
this book should be a welcome addition to any library on Polish
history,
Soviet history or the history of World War II.
From: "edtar" <edtar@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:01:44 -0400
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy

The best source of information about Kresy is the book "Z Kresow
Wschodnich
R.P. Na Wygnanie". It is a collection of memories and descriptions
of
settlements of 142 survivors of Kresy from almost as many Osady
(settlements)
on the Kresy. Unfortunately it is only in Polish. I was told once
that
it is
being translated. The book (700 pages) was published by Ognisko
Rodzin
Osadnikow Kresowych in London, 1996. ISBN 1 872286 33 X, printed by
Caldra
House LTD, 23 Coleridge Street, Hove, Sussex BN3 5AB. The book
contains
information about how the settlements came into being, various
statistics and
how they progressed and fared up to 1940- 48.

Edward Tarchalski, Kresowiak
and survivor of Siberia.





+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND
+ a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to


Group Poll

[email protected]
 

Just a final reminder, that I will be closing the poll in 12 hours, at
5pm New York time on Friday 12 October.

To vote, go to .

Regards,
Stefan Wisniowski
Kresy-Siberia group moderator
Re: looking for my home

[email protected]
 

Joe

I forgot to add this, have a look at my home pages, there is a reference
page

I have some useful addresses, write t the Sikorski Museum, they might have
some info on your father
it's worth a try


Paul
Re: looking for my home

[email protected]
 

Joe

I've got a map of that area, I'll have a look tonight when I get home and
if I manage to find anything
I'll let you know. I had a look at some on line maps and it could be quite
possible that the village
no longer exists, asa very large number of villages in the Wolyn region
were destroyed by the
Ukrainians during a reign of terror against the Polish populace(1942-46)
Also it could have been "pacified" by the Germans.

I'll keep you posted

Paul




To: Kresy-Siberia@...
cc:
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] looking for my home
Joe Zelwietro
<deplib@cityt
el.net>

11/10/01
19:10
Please
respond to
Kresy-Siberia






Dzien dobry:

My name is Joe Zelwietro (actually it's Z with a dot above it). I have
been exploring my heritage and my father's life before he settled in
Canada. I am using the Internet as a discovery tool because my father
is dead. It was especially sad, because he died before Poland had
regained her freedom in 1989, but I know he was not unique in that
respect. My father was a good man, but he was reluctant to speak of the
time between 1939 and 1942. He was one of the many who was taken
prisoner by the Soviets from Wilno area and ended up a decorated soldier
in the Polish 2nd Corps, but also a man without a country.

I want to go there and see where he is from and show my children where
their grandfather came from. While there are many things I want to know
I am joining this list with the hope that other members can help me with
two specific questions.

Is there anybody who has knows a Zelwietro, Zelwietr, Zelwetra, or
Zelwetro? (Remember that's Z with a dot)

Where is my father's village now?
He was born in Bortkiewiecze powiat Oszmina woj. Wilno
I know this area is in Lithuania now, but that's all I know.

If anybody can help I would be greatly indebted,

Dziekuje,
Joe Zelwietro


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND
+ a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

Re: Information about Kresy & the Deportations

[email protected]
 

Edward

The story on my web page isn't in the book. It's a personal recollection of
Elizabeth's mother
that Elizabeth kindly allowed me to publish.
Both the book titles are at the bottom of the page, the English version is
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| From The Eastern Borderlands of Poland, Memories of military settlements |
| 1921-1940 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|


I do not have the right to question any accounts in these books as my
family didn't have to make that terrible journey.

Paul






To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
cc:
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy & the
"edtar" Deportations
<edtar@bellatl
antic.net>

11/10/01 18:11
Please respond
to
Kresy-Siberia






Paul, what is the title of the english version and where did you get it &
how much is it.
The sample story in the site >
is
not in the original books of which there were 2 editions, 1996 of 700 p
and
1998 of 450 p. Janina Stobnik's story does not appear in either. I also
question Tomasz Piesakowski's claim of authorship of the english
translation
of these collective authiorships.
Edward

----- Original Message -----
From: <Paul.Havers@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Cc: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy & the Deportations



Chaps

I've also read this book and can strongly recommend it to others. I only
have the English version
If any one wishes to read a bit of it please have a look at


Paul




To:
<Kresy-Siberia@...>
cc:
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia]
Information about Kresy & the
Stefan Deportations
Wisniowski
<swisniowski@
px.com.au>

11/10/01
07:00
Please
respond to
Kresy-Siberia






Thanks Ed,
The good news is that I have this book in it's English translation as
well
as the Polish original. It is called "Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing in
Eastern
Poland - Tales of the Deported 1940-1946". It is indeed a valuable book.
Marek Duchnowski, a recent member of our group, was responsible for
putting
the book on the web - and if you visit the site, I'm sure you will agree
that it is a masterpiece!

Go to www.StalinsEthnicCleansing.com for more information on the English
version and for information on how to order copies. (Marek, this may be
a
good time to get the publishers to accept credit cards and/or to accept
US
funds).

I should also say that I have built a little library of perhaps 15 books
on
this topic in the last year, and one which I found very informative is by
Jan T. Gross (yes, the same one who later wrote about Jedwabne). it is
called "Revolution from Abroad : The Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western
Ukraine and Western Belorussia". He based his research on the Hoover
Institution archive of testimonies left by the deportees who joined
Anders
Army (like Ed!). Here is the weblink to Amazon books to check it out:


Though it is out of print, they have a used book service where you can
order
it over the web for US$25 and up. I have taken the liberty of appending a
review of the book, from the Amazon site.
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Brilliant analysis of an ignored event of World War II, May 21, 2000
Reviewer: seydlitz89 from Portugal

The main primary source of this book is a collection of thousands of
handwritten statements collected by the Polish government in exile when
they
interviewed the surviving Polish citizens released after the 1942
"amnesty" of
those detained by the Soviets after 1939. By careful research,
crosschecking
and comparison with other resources Professor Gross has been able to
produce a
work of exceptional clarity and importance in understanding the
workings
of
Stalinism in particular and totalitarianism in general.

He provides an outline of Soviet occupation policy and methods. The
whole
process seems to have been well planned out, one phase setting up the
conditions to implement the second, which in turn set up the conditions
for
the third, all this operating within an artificial atmosphere of fear,
chaos
and confusion. An initial period of lawlessness, promoted by the
Soviets
in
order for a rapid collapse of the old order accompanied by the
promoting
of
ethic hatreds among the four main groups- Poles, Ukrainians,
Belorussians
and
Jews, was followed by rapid consolidation of police powers by those who
owed
their new won power to Soviet authority alone. In the process of laying
out
this interesting story, Gross adds many interesting insights.

Discussion of social control, prisons and deportation, NKVD
interrogation
methods (including use of female interrogators) and much more provides
a
well
rounded sketch of this particularly brutal episode of Polish history. I
found
his analysis of the "privatization of the public realm", "the spoiler
state",
"totalitarian language", and Soviet use of family networks to insure
discipline and control illuminating.

Actually the only short coming of this very interesting book is that is
was
published in 1988 just before the end of the Soviet Union and thus
produced
without the use of the since partially-opened Soviet archives. He only
has
limited information on the Katyn massacres for instance. While this
should not
affect his conclusions or insights, it may give more accurate
statistics
than
those quoted. Perhaps a new revised edition is called for. In the
meantime,
this book should be a welcome addition to any library on Polish
history,
Soviet history or the history of World War II.
From: "edtar" <edtar@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:01:44 -0400
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy

The best source of information about Kresy is the book "Z Kresow
Wschodnich
R.P. Na Wygnanie". It is a collection of memories and descriptions of
settlements of 142 survivors of Kresy from almost as many Osady
(settlements)
on the Kresy. Unfortunately it is only in Polish. I was told once that
it is
being translated. The book (700 pages) was published by Ognisko Rodzin
Osadnikow Kresowych in London, 1996. ISBN 1 872286 33 X, printed by
Caldra
House LTD, 23 Coleridge Street, Hove, Sussex BN3 5AB. The book
contains
information about how the settlements came into being, various
statistics and
how they progressed and fared up to 1940- 48.

Edward Tarchalski, Kresowiak
and survivor of Siberia.
Odp: Odp: First group poll closes 12 Oct

Wladyslaw Czapski
 

开云体育

Poland and USSR in 1945 year signed contract.

Poland commited oneself to give to persons returning compensation.

From 1945 year Of Poland to today /2001/ is drawn aside {halves open} with publication of compensation.

Poland to today is drawn aside {halves open} from realizations {of} own judicial judgements.??!!!!!?

Wladyslaw Czapski biorytm@...????2001.10.12

----- Wiadomo?? oryginalna -----
Wys?ano: 12 pa?dziernika 2001 01:49
Temat: Re: Odp: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct

Hello biorytm@... (Wladyslaw Czapski),

In reference to your comment:

è Yes - from the countries of
è the former USSR

Both sides of my father's family were deported during this time. ?Both sides lost all property that they owned, plus, many family members. ?Yes, I believe the countries of the former USSR should compensate them

========Original Message========
Subj: Odp: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct
Date: 10/10/01 12:56:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:? ? biorytm@... (Wladyslaw Czapski)
Reply-to: Kresy-Siberia@...
To:? ? Kresy-Siberia@...




Ja nie moge odpowiedziec na pytania bo duzo nie rozumiem.
Wladyslaw Czapski
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od:
Do:
Wyslano: 10 pazdziernika 2001 18:29
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct


> Hi,
> I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
> 5pm New York time on Friday 12 October.? So please, express
> you opinion by going to
> and going to the Polls link.? You may need to register with Yahoo,
> but this is a one-time process that takes only? a short time then
> gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.
>
> Regards,
> Stefan
>
>
> Here is the poll:
> "Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
> by German government and industry. Do you think that the
> families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
> compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
> under the Soviets?
>
> - No, they have been compensated already
>? - No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
> the War
>? - No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
>? - Maybe - I need to learn more about this
>? - Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
>? - Yes - from Poland itself
>? - Yes - but don't know how or from who "
>
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +?? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> +? ? Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +? ? Website:? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +? ? Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
> +? ? Send e-mails to:? Kresy-Siberia@...
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +? ? To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
> +? ? Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND
> +? ? a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
> +? ? saying who you are and your interest in the group
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +?? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> +?? Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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CLICK HERE to search
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---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+? ? Website:? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+?? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP????????????????????????????????
+?? Research, Remembrance, Recognition???????????????????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+??? Websites:? ?
+???????????????????????? www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+??? Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+??? Send e-mails to:? Kresy-Siberia@...??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+??? To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+??? Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND?
+??? a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...?
+??? saying who you are and your interest in the group???
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+?? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:??
+?? Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...?????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Re: Odp: First group poll closes 12 Oct

[email protected]
 

Hello biorytm@... (Wladyslaw Czapski),

In reference to your comment:

è Yes - from the countries of
è the former USSR

Both sides of my father's family were deported during this time. ?Both sides lost all property that they owned, plus, many family members. ?Yes, I believe the countries of the former USSR should compensate them

========Original Message========
Subj: Odp: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct
Date: 10/10/01 12:56:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:? ? biorytm@... (Wladyslaw Czapski)
Reply-to: Kresy-Siberia@...
To:? ? Kresy-Siberia@...




Ja nie moge odpowiedziec na pytania bo duzo nie rozumiem.
Wladyslaw Czapski
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: <swisniowski@...>
Do:
Wyslano: 10 pazdziernika 2001 18:29
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct


> Hi,
> I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
> 5pm New York time on Friday 12 October.? So please, express
> you opinion by going to
> and going to the Polls link.? You may need to register with Yahoo,
> but this is a one-time process that takes only? a short time then
> gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.
>
> Regards,
> Stefan
>
>
> Here is the poll:
> "Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
> by German government and industry. Do you think that the
> families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
> compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
> under the Soviets?
>
> - No, they have been compensated already
>? - No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
> the War
>? - No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
>? - Maybe - I need to learn more about this
>? - Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
>? - Yes - from Poland itself
>? - Yes - but don't know how or from who "
>
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +?? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> +? ? Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +? ? Website:? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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> +?? Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
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>
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>
>


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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:48:35 +0200
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Subject: Odp: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct
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Odp: looking for my home

Wladyslaw Czapski
 

Moj znajomy mieszka w LITWA. zygmunt@...
Zapytaj jego czy moze tobie pomoc.
Pozdrawiam.
Wladyslaw Czapski
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: "Joe Zelwietro" <deplib@...>
Do: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Wyslano: 11 pazdziernika 2001 20:10
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] looking for my home

Dzien dobry:

My name is Joe Zelwietro (actually it's Z with a dot above it). I have
been exploring my heritage and my father's life before he settled in
Canada. I am using the Internet as a discovery tool because my father
is dead. It was especially sad, because he died before Poland had
regained her freedom in 1989, but I know he was not unique in that
respect. My father was a good man, but he was reluctant to speak of the
time between 1939 and 1942. He was one of the many who was taken
prisoner by the Soviets from Wilno area and ended up a decorated soldier
in the Polish 2nd Corps, but also a man without a country.

I want to go there and see where he is from and show my children where
their grandfather came from. While there are many things I want to know
I am joining this list with the hope that other members can help me with
two specific questions.

Is there anybody who has knows a Zelwietro, Zelwietr, Zelwetra, or
Zelwetro? (Remember that's Z with a dot)

Where is my father's village now?
He was born in Bortkiewiecze powiat Oszmina woj. Wilno
I know this area is in Lithuania now, but that's all I know.

If anybody can help I would be greatly indebted,

Dziekuje,
Joe Zelwietro


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+ www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

looking for my home

Joe Zelwietro
 

Dzien dobry:

My name is Joe Zelwietro (actually it's Z with a dot above it). I have
been exploring my heritage and my father's life before he settled in
Canada. I am using the Internet as a discovery tool because my father
is dead. It was especially sad, because he died before Poland had
regained her freedom in 1989, but I know he was not unique in that
respect. My father was a good man, but he was reluctant to speak of the
time between 1939 and 1942. He was one of the many who was taken
prisoner by the Soviets from Wilno area and ended up a decorated soldier
in the Polish 2nd Corps, but also a man without a country.

I want to go there and see where he is from and show my children where
their grandfather came from. While there are many things I want to know
I am joining this list with the hope that other members can help me with
two specific questions.

Is there anybody who has knows a Zelwietro, Zelwietr, Zelwetra, or
Zelwetro? (Remember that's Z with a dot)

Where is my father's village now?
He was born in Bortkiewiecze powiat Oszmina woj. Wilno
I know this area is in Lithuania now, but that's all I know.

If anybody can help I would be greatly indebted,

Dziekuje,
Joe Zelwietro
Re: Information about Kresy & the Deportations

edtar
 

Paul, what is the title of the english version and where did you get it &
how much is it.
The sample story in the site > is
not in the original books of which there were 2 editions, 1996 of 700 p and
1998 of 450 p. Janina Stobnik's story does not appear in either. I also
question Tomasz Piesakowski's claim of authorship of the english translation
of these collective authiorships.
Edward

----- Original Message -----
From: <Paul.Havers@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Cc: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy & the Deportations



Chaps

I've also read this book and can strongly recommend it to others. I only
have the English version
If any one wishes to read a bit of it please have a look at


Paul




To:
<Kresy-Siberia@...>
cc:
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia]
Information about Kresy & the
Stefan Deportations
Wisniowski
<swisniowski@
px.com.au>

11/10/01
07:00
Please
respond to
Kresy-Siberia






Thanks Ed,
The good news is that I have this book in it's English translation as well
as the Polish original. It is called "Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing in
Eastern
Poland - Tales of the Deported 1940-1946". It is indeed a valuable book.
Marek Duchnowski, a recent member of our group, was responsible for
putting
the book on the web - and if you visit the site, I'm sure you will agree
that it is a masterpiece!

Go to www.StalinsEthnicCleansing.com for more information on the English
version and for information on how to order copies. (Marek, this may be a
good time to get the publishers to accept credit cards and/or to accept US
funds).

I should also say that I have built a little library of perhaps 15 books
on
this topic in the last year, and one which I found very informative is by
Jan T. Gross (yes, the same one who later wrote about Jedwabne). it is
called "Revolution from Abroad : The Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western
Ukraine and Western Belorussia". He based his research on the Hoover
Institution archive of testimonies left by the deportees who joined Anders
Army (like Ed!). Here is the weblink to Amazon books to check it out:


Though it is out of print, they have a used book service where you can
order
it over the web for US$25 and up. I have taken the liberty of appending a
review of the book, from the Amazon site.
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Brilliant analysis of an ignored event of World War II, May 21, 2000
Reviewer: seydlitz89 from Portugal

The main primary source of this book is a collection of thousands of
handwritten statements collected by the Polish government in exile when
they
interviewed the surviving Polish citizens released after the 1942
"amnesty" of
those detained by the Soviets after 1939. By careful research,
crosschecking
and comparison with other resources Professor Gross has been able to
produce a
work of exceptional clarity and importance in understanding the workings
of
Stalinism in particular and totalitarianism in general.

He provides an outline of Soviet occupation policy and methods. The
whole
process seems to have been well planned out, one phase setting up the
conditions to implement the second, which in turn set up the conditions
for
the third, all this operating within an artificial atmosphere of fear,
chaos
and confusion. An initial period of lawlessness, promoted by the Soviets
in
order for a rapid collapse of the old order accompanied by the promoting
of
ethic hatreds among the four main groups- Poles, Ukrainians,
Belorussians
and
Jews, was followed by rapid consolidation of police powers by those who
owed
their new won power to Soviet authority alone. In the process of laying
out
this interesting story, Gross adds many interesting insights.

Discussion of social control, prisons and deportation, NKVD
interrogation
methods (including use of female interrogators) and much more provides a
well
rounded sketch of this particularly brutal episode of Polish history. I
found
his analysis of the "privatization of the public realm", "the spoiler
state",
"totalitarian language", and Soviet use of family networks to insure
discipline and control illuminating.

Actually the only short coming of this very interesting book is that is
was
published in 1988 just before the end of the Soviet Union and thus
produced
without the use of the since partially-opened Soviet archives. He only
has
limited information on the Katyn massacres for instance. While this
should not
affect his conclusions or insights, it may give more accurate statistics
than
those quoted. Perhaps a new revised edition is called for. In the
meantime,
this book should be a welcome addition to any library on Polish history,
Soviet history or the history of World War II.
From: "edtar" <edtar@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:01:44 -0400
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy

The best source of information about Kresy is the book "Z Kresow
Wschodnich
R.P. Na Wygnanie". It is a collection of memories and descriptions of
settlements of 142 survivors of Kresy from almost as many Osady
(settlements)
on the Kresy. Unfortunately it is only in Polish. I was told once that
it is
being translated. The book (700 pages) was published by Ognisko Rodzin
Osadnikow Kresowych in London, 1996. ISBN 1 872286 33 X, printed by
Caldra
House LTD, 23 Coleridge Street, Hove, Sussex BN3 5AB. The book contains
information about how the settlements came into being, various
statistics and
how they progressed and fared up to 1940- 48.

Edward Tarchalski, Kresowiak
and survivor of Siberia.





+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Website:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND
+ a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to


Re: Welcome Mark Terech

Andy Kowaluk
 

Hi,

My brother-in-law is named Aleks Terech. Since the name is not common I
thought that there might be a connection. I have forwarded a copy of this
message to Aleks for his interetest. Let me know if you want me to pursue a
possible connection.

Andy Kowaluk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Wisniowski" <swisniowski@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 11:07 AM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Welcome Mark Terech


Witamy,
Welcome Mark!

I hope that this group can offer you some assistance as we all try to
piece
together the details of what happened and why. Many of us have bits and
pieces of the puzzle. I wish I had started this research when I lived in
Canada, where there are more "Sybiracy" than in Australia, but the power
of
the internet is such that we have members from countries across the globe.

In any case, for a lot of material on this whole tragic episode, please
visit the site www.AForgottenOdyssey.com and check out the links.

Regards,
Pozdrawiam,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia


----------
From: "markt" <markt@...>
Reply-To: <markt@...>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:24:11 +0100
To: "Stefan Wisniowski" <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Interest in group

Dear Stefan,
I came across your group from the Yahoo Polish chat group.

My interest is that my late father Edmund Terech was deported to
Archangielsk
along with both his parents. From there he joined the Polish army when
it was
being formed, serving in the 2nd Korpus, 5th Kresowa Dywizja Piechoty, 5
Kresowa Baon C.K.M. with whom he fought with at Monte Cassino. After
Italy he
settled in England.

My mother Krystina Kornecka was deported to Uralsk with her parents and
her 2
brothers. When the Polish army was being formed her father joined the
army and
both her brothers joined the cadets My mother along with her mother and
Grandmother were then sent to Africa (Camp Ifundi) afterwards settling
in
England were she met my father.

My Father in Law Ludwik Rudkowski along with his mother and 2 sisters
were
deported to Semipalatinsk (his father was a policeman in Poland and was
arrested earlier) He also joined the Army and served in the Parachute
Regiment.

This is just a brief outline I am in the process of recording there
lives for
my children to read. Hope your group might be of some help I will give
details
of the villages they were born etc.etc. in aa later e-mail

Regards
Mark

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Website:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND
+ a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to


Re: FAQ's

[email protected]
 

I certainly hope to do my part. Currently I am revising and expanding
my website in a major way. I have a bit of a reference section at my
new address:

I would also ask someone whose Polish is better than mine to perhaps
make contact with the Committee for Aid to Turkmenistani Poles at
who have a group similar to ours.

(I grew up speaking both languages. I have a BA in Polish Language &
Literature from the University of Toronto and my translation skills
from Polish to English are good--but my Polish writing skills are
stunted by the fact I spent but 1 month in Poland thirty years ago.

Chris Gladun, Toronto
Re: Odp: PO POLSKU First group poll closes 12 Oct

[email protected]
 

The translation is as follows

You are living in a different world
today the Polish Government is unwilling to return even to the Poles in
spite of a Court Order their property
The current president A Kwasniewski says that they have to send their
grievances to the Courts, but how can it be done when
the courts have passed a judgement
The Polish premier writes "I can't comment on the exact date of execution
of the Court Order"
His case is being looked by a court in Strasbourg, France, and it's been
there a few years
The Polish premiers writings are published in
www.us.wroc.pl/bio-rytm/main.htm
And no one is surprised. No convention for the human rights is interested
in this.
Because RP isn't executing any court orders against RP.
They think it's best to totally ignore it and let it believe it doesn't
exist
In Hitler and Stalin times everyone believed that it didn't exist but kept
the diplomatic channels open
This is how it is in Poland in 2001


This is as best as can manage to translate this, some words are
incompatible with English and I have translated them as
best as I know how


Paul











++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wy zyjecie w innym SWIECIE !!!!!!!!
Dzisiaj Rzad Polski od 60 lat uchyla sie
/unika/ zwrotu nawet POLAKOM pomimo WYROKOW SADOW POLSKICH /z 1996/ ich
mienia.!!!!!!!!!!
Sam obecny Prezydent Aleksander
Kwasniewski mowi aby skarzyc do SADU. A jak sie juz ma wyrok SADU. Wtedy
Premier Polski na pismie pisze "
"NIE MOGE WSKAZAC TERMINY WYKONANIA WYROKU" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moja sprawe rozpatruje SAD w SZTRAZBURGU -
Francja. juz kilka lat??
Wyrko jak i pisma Premiera Polski opublikowalem na wlasnych stronach
www.us.wroc.pl/bio-rytm/main.htm
I nikogo to nie dziwi. Zadna konwencja praw czlowieka to nie interesuje.
Bo Polska Rzeczypospolita nie wykonuje wyrokow sadowych przeciwko
Polskiej
Rzeczypospolitej. /2001/. Najlepiej udawac ze to nie istnieje.
!!!!!!!!!!
Za czasow Hitlera i Stalina wszyscy udawali ze to nie istenieje.
!!!!!!!!!!
i dale utrzymywali normalene stosunki dyplomatyczne. ????????
Tak to jest u nas na Polskiej ziemi ad. 2001. Wladyslaw Czapski.
2001.10.11 Wroclaw PL
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: "Stefan Wisniowski" <swisniowski@...>
Do: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Wyslano: 11 pazdziernika 2001 02:48
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] PO POLSKU First group poll closes 12 Oct


Panie Wladyslawie (i inni)
Oto przetlumaczenie naszego sondarzu na polski. Prosze wybaczyc slaby
uzytek jezyka polskiego, ale mam nadzejie ze bedzie starczyc do
rozumienia.
Mam szcera nadzieje ze po takim wysilku, pan bedzie mial okazie
uczestniczyc
w sondarzu! Jezeli bylby ktos natyle godny aby mi pomóc z poprawkami, to
prosze napisac do mnie bezposzrednio na swisniowski@....
Dziekuje
--

Dear Wladyslaw (and others)
Here is a quick translation into Polish of the poll for anybody that
needs
it. Please forgive my amateurish Polish, but I hope it gets the idea
across. I sincerely hope that after this effort, you will take the
opportunity to participate in the poll! By the way, would anybody on the
list kind enough to offer me corrections to improve my command of the
written language please send me an e-mail directly to
swisniowski@....
Thanks
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Ja nie moge odpowiedziec na pytania bo duzo nie rozumiem.
"I can't answer the questions because I do not understand them well"
Wladyslaw Czapski

Hi,
I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
5pm New York time on Friday 12 October. So please, express
you opinion by going to
and going to the Polls link. You may need to register with Yahoo,
but this is a one-time process that takes only a short time then
gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.

Regards,
Stefan
"Czesc,
Otrzymalem 5 odpowiedzi na sondarz, i zamykam termin do odpowiedzenia w
piatek, 12 pazdziernika o godzinie 17:00 w czasie Nowego Jorku. Prosze
wykazac wasza opinie na stronnicy
. Mozliwe ze trzeba
zarejestrowac sie na Yahoo, ale to tylko po jeden ras i dlugo nie zajmuje
-
a wtedy daje prawo ogladac archiwa, fotografie, itd.

Pozdrawiam,
Stefan
Here is the poll:
"Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
by German government and industry. Do you think that the
families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
under the Soviets?

- No, they have been compensated already
- No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
the War
- No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
- Maybe - I need to learn more about this
- Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
- Yes - from Poland itself
- Yes - but don't know how or from who "
Oto sondarz:
"Ostatnio, ofiary pracy umusowej Nazismu otrzymaly oszkodowanie fundowane
przez zad niemiecki oraz przez firmy niemieckie. Czy myslicie ze
wywiezieni do Syberii (i Kazakstanu itd.) powinni tez otrzymac
odszkodowanie
za strate mienia i za prace umusowa pod sowietami?
- Nie, bo juz otrzymali odszkodowanie
- Nie, stracili to prawo gdy nie wruczili do polski po wojnie
- Moze, ale musze sie wiecej dowiedziec
- Tak, od krajów poprzedniego ZSSR
- Tak, od rzadu polski
- Tak, ale nie jestem pewien jak i od kogo>>>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wy zyjecie w innym SWIECIE !!!!!!!!
Dzisiaj Rzad Polski od 60 lat uchyla sie
/unika/ zwrotu nawet POLAKOM pomimo WYROKOW SADOW POLSKICH /z 1996/ ich
mienia.
Sam obecny Prezydent Aleksander
Kwasniewski mowi aby skarzyc do SADU. A jak sie juz ma wyrok SADU. Wtedy
Premier Polski na pismie pisze "
"NIE MOGE WSKAZAC TERMINY WYKONANIA WYROKU" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moja sprawe rozpatruje SAD w SZTRAZBURGU -
Francja. juz kilka lat??
Wyrko jak i pisma Premiera Polski opublikowalem na wlasnych stronach
www.us.wroc.pl/bio-rytm/main.htm
I nikogo to nie dziwi. Zadna konwencja praw czlowieka to nie interesuje.
Bo Polska Rzeczypospolita nie wykonuje wyrokow sadowych przeciwko
Polskiej
Rzeczypospolitej. /2001/. Najlepiej udawac ze to nie istnieje.
!!!!!!!!!!
Za czasow Hitlera i Stalina wszyscy udawali ze to nie istenieje.
!!!!!!!!!!
i dale utrzymywali normalene stosunki dyplomatyczne. ????????
Tak to jest u nas na Polskiej ziemi ad. 2001. Wladyslaw Czapski.
2001.10.11 Wroclaw PL
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: FAQs?

[email protected]
 

count me in, I'll do what I can with the spare time that's available
just let me know what

Paul
FAQs?

Stefan Wisniowski
 

Question for the group,
Now that we are nearing 50 members, this is feeling like a bit of a critical
mass. What should we do together to advance our cause?

Some similar groups adopt one or more special projects. Like a registry of
names, a petition, a memorial fund or a museum.

I have a specific suggestion and would like to get your reactions please.

I suggest that we might start by collaborating on a website that would be
especially useful for new members as they discover us and want to learn more
about this tragic yet heroic event. Several members have their own sites
already (Paul, Wladyslaw, Janusz, Chris, Janek, to name a few). These are
all hotlinked through to AForgottenOdyssey.com site that Steve Roy helped me
put together in record time to publicise Jagna Wright's fantastic film.

This site is "version 1". We can make it better with your feedback and
input. For example, we should have a "gallery" of photographs. If we got
organised, we would put together a list of FAQs (frequently asked questions)
like on the better genealogy sites (eg, who did this to the Poles, why, who
was taken, where, when, where can I get more info, was there ever
compensation, what happened to Polish citizenship when the land was lost,
etc.). Also we could have a list of resources for information (Hoover
Institution, Polish Memorial Committee in Moscow, Karta archives, Sikorski
Institute, Zwiazek Sybiraków, Polish Embassy in Teheran, etc.) as well as
recommended books on the topic.

Though I am happy to be a point person to coordinate this type of activity,
I can not do all of this alone, and "many hands make light work". Would
anybody care to offer their help in putting some of these things together?
The only qualification required is a desire to contribute and help others
who share our quest.
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia
Re: Odp: PO POLSKU First group poll closes 12 Oct

Stefan Wisniowski
 

I would appreciate the assistance of a native Polish speaker to render a
proper translation of Wladyslaw's response, and perhaps even mine (are you
game, Ed?).

It sounds to me like Wladyslaw made a claim for compensation for the loss of
his estate in Kresy to the Polish courts, but the Polish Government refused
to comply with the court ruling for compensation in his favour. His case is
now languishing at the European Court in Strasbourg.

If I have this right, can anybody confirm whether the government of Poland
still has plans to try and enter the European Community by end of 2002?

Regards,
--
Stefan

From: "Wladyslaw Czapski" <biorytm@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:08:21 +0200
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: Odp: [Kresy-Siberia] PO POLSKU First group poll closes 12 Oct

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wy zyjecie w innym SWIECIE !!!!!!!!
Dzisiaj Rzad Polski od 60 lat uchyla sie
/unika/ zwrotu nawet POLAKOM pomimo WYROKOW SADOW POLSKICH /z 1996/ ich
mienia.!!!!!!!!!!
Sam obecny Prezydent Aleksander
Kwasniewski mowi aby skarzyc do SADU. A jak sie juz ma wyrok SADU. Wtedy
Premier Polski na pismie pisze "
"NIE MOGE WSKAZAC TERMINY WYKONANIA WYROKU" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moja sprawe rozpatruje SAD w SZTRAZBURGU -
Francja. juz kilka lat??
Wyrko jak i pisma Premiera Polski opublikowalem na wlasnych stronach
www.us.wroc.pl/bio-rytm/main.htm
I nikogo to nie dziwi. Zadna konwencja praw czlowieka to nie interesuje.
Bo Polska Rzeczypospolita nie wykonuje wyrokow sadowych przeciwko Polskiej
Rzeczypospolitej. /2001/. Najlepiej udawac ze to nie istnieje. !!!!!!!!!!
Za czasow Hitlera i Stalina wszyscy udawali ze to nie istenieje. !!!!!!!!!!
i dale utrzymywali normalene stosunki dyplomatyczne. ????????
Tak to jest u nas na Polskiej ziemi ad. 2001. Wladyslaw Czapski.
2001.10.11 Wroclaw PL
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: "Stefan Wisniowski" <swisniowski@...>
Do: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Wyslano: 11 pazdziernika 2001 02:48
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] PO POLSKU First group poll closes 12 Oct


Panie Wladyslawie (i inni)
Oto przetlumaczenie naszego sondarzu na polski. Prosze wybaczyc slaby
uzytek jezyka polskiego, ale mam nadzejie ze bedzie starczyc do rozumienia.
Mam szcera nadzieje ze po takim wysilku, pan bedzie mial okazie uczestniczyc
w sondarzu! Jezeli bylby ktos natyle godny aby mi pomóc z poprawkami, to
prosze napisac do mnie bezposzrednio na swisniowski@....
Dziekuje
--

Dear Wladyslaw (and others)
Here is a quick translation into Polish of the poll for anybody that needs
it. Please forgive my amateurish Polish, but I hope it gets the idea
across. I sincerely hope that after this effort, you will take the
opportunity to participate in the poll! By the way, would anybody on the
list kind enough to offer me corrections to improve my command of the
written language please send me an e-mail directly to swisniowski@....
Thanks
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Ja nie moge odpowiedziec na pytania bo duzo nie rozumiem.
"I can't answer the questions because I do not understand them well"
Wladyslaw Czapski

Hi,
I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
5pm New York time on Friday 12 October. So please, express
you opinion by going to
and going to the Polls link. You may need to register with Yahoo,
but this is a one-time process that takes only a short time then
gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.

Regards,
Stefan
"Czesc,
Otrzymalem 5 odpowiedzi na sondarz, i zamykam termin do odpowiedzenia w
piatek, 12 pazdziernika o godzinie 17:00 w czasie Nowego Jorku. Prosze
wykazac wasza opinie na stronnicy
. Mozliwe ze trzeba
zarejestrowac sie na Yahoo, ale to tylko po jeden ras i dlugo nie zajmuje -
a wtedy daje prawo ogladac archiwa, fotografie, itd.

Pozdrawiam,
Stefan
Here is the poll:
"Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
by German government and industry. Do you think that the
families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
under the Soviets?

- No, they have been compensated already
- No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
the War
- No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
- Maybe - I need to learn more about this
- Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
- Yes - from Poland itself
- Yes - but don't know how or from who "
Oto sondarz:
"Ostatnio, ofiary pracy umusowej Nazismu otrzymaly oszkodowanie fundowane
przez zad niemiecki oraz przez firmy niemieckie. Czy myslicie ze
wywiezieni do Syberii (i Kazakstanu itd.) powinni tez otrzymac odszkodowanie
za strate mienia i za prace umusowa pod sowietami?
- Nie, bo juz otrzymali odszkodowanie
- Nie, stracili to prawo gdy nie wruczili do polski po wojnie
- Moze, ale musze sie wiecej dowiedziec
- Tak, od krajów poprzedniego ZSSR
- Tak, od rzadu polski
- Tak, ale nie jestem pewien jak i od kogo>>>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wy zyjecie w innym SWIECIE !!!!!!!!
Dzisiaj Rzad Polski od 60 lat uchyla sie
/unika/ zwrotu nawet POLAKOM pomimo WYROKOW SADOW POLSKICH /z 1996/ ich
mienia.
Sam obecny Prezydent Aleksander
Kwasniewski mowi aby skarzyc do SADU. A jak sie juz ma wyrok SADU. Wtedy
Premier Polski na pismie pisze "
"NIE MOGE WSKAZAC TERMINY WYKONANIA WYROKU" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moja sprawe rozpatruje SAD w SZTRAZBURGU -
Francja. juz kilka lat??
Wyrko jak i pisma Premiera Polski opublikowalem na wlasnych stronach
www.us.wroc.pl/bio-rytm/main.htm
I nikogo to nie dziwi. Zadna konwencja praw czlowieka to nie interesuje.
Bo Polska Rzeczypospolita nie wykonuje wyrokow sadowych przeciwko Polskiej
Rzeczypospolitej. /2001/. Najlepiej udawac ze to nie istnieje. !!!!!!!!!!
Za czasow Hitlera i Stalina wszyscy udawali ze to nie istenieje. !!!!!!!!!!
i dale utrzymywali normalene stosunki dyplomatyczne. ????????
Tak to jest u nas na Polskiej ziemi ad. 2001. Wladyslaw Czapski.
2001.10.11 Wroclaw PL
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Website:
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+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
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+ a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to



Re: Information about Kresy & the Deportations

[email protected]
 

Stefan and others

As we reminisce about the Kresy and the Soviet invasion, have a look on


this is the cover of a quarterly magazine published here in London,
unfortunately it's in Polish so not all can read it
it covers all aspects of Kresy. I have old copies so if anyone wishes to
read them let me know and I'll snail mail
one to you.


Paul
Re: Return to old haunts

[email protected]
 

My mum is from Czortkow and she's been "dying" pardon the phrase to get
back and have a look at her childhood
places. We are going on a visit next year. The plan is to take the train to
Lwow and then go on to Czortkow, Biala, Kopyczynce
Trebowla, etc. It should be a very interesting two weeks. I sincerely hope
that my 35mm camera can take the strain as
I intend to take as many photos as humanly possible. Hopefully I can also
meet up with my relatives that couldn't get out
of USSR in 1947 when the repatriation of Poles ended.

Paul
Re: Information about Kresy & the Deportations

[email protected]
 

Chaps

I've also read this book and can strongly recommend it to others. I only
have the English version
If any one wishes to read a bit of it please have a look at


Paul




To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
cc:
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy & the
Stefan Deportations
Wisniowski
<swisniowski@
px.com.au>

11/10/01
07:00
Please
respond to
Kresy-Siberia






Thanks Ed,
The good news is that I have this book in it's English translation as well
as the Polish original. It is called "Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing in Eastern
Poland - Tales of the Deported 1940-1946". It is indeed a valuable book.
Marek Duchnowski, a recent member of our group, was responsible for putting
the book on the web - and if you visit the site, I'm sure you will agree
that it is a masterpiece!

Go to www.StalinsEthnicCleansing.com for more information on the English
version and for information on how to order copies. (Marek, this may be a
good time to get the publishers to accept credit cards and/or to accept US
funds).

I should also say that I have built a little library of perhaps 15 books on
this topic in the last year, and one which I found very informative is by
Jan T. Gross (yes, the same one who later wrote about Jedwabne). it is
called "Revolution from Abroad : The Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western
Ukraine and Western Belorussia". He based his research on the Hoover
Institution archive of testimonies left by the deportees who joined Anders
Army (like Ed!). Here is the weblink to Amazon books to check it out:


Though it is out of print, they have a used book service where you can
order
it over the web for US$25 and up. I have taken the liberty of appending a
review of the book, from the Amazon site.
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

Brilliant analysis of an ignored event of World War II, May 21, 2000
Reviewer: seydlitz89 from Portugal

The main primary source of this book is a collection of thousands of
handwritten statements collected by the Polish government in exile when
they
interviewed the surviving Polish citizens released after the 1942
"amnesty" of
those detained by the Soviets after 1939. By careful research,
crosschecking
and comparison with other resources Professor Gross has been able to
produce a
work of exceptional clarity and importance in understanding the workings
of
Stalinism in particular and totalitarianism in general.

He provides an outline of Soviet occupation policy and methods. The whole
process seems to have been well planned out, one phase setting up the
conditions to implement the second, which in turn set up the conditions
for
the third, all this operating within an artificial atmosphere of fear,
chaos
and confusion. An initial period of lawlessness, promoted by the Soviets
in
order for a rapid collapse of the old order accompanied by the promoting
of
ethic hatreds among the four main groups- Poles, Ukrainians, Belorussians
and
Jews, was followed by rapid consolidation of police powers by those who
owed
their new won power to Soviet authority alone. In the process of laying
out
this interesting story, Gross adds many interesting insights.

Discussion of social control, prisons and deportation, NKVD interrogation
methods (including use of female interrogators) and much more provides a
well
rounded sketch of this particularly brutal episode of Polish history. I
found
his analysis of the "privatization of the public realm", "the spoiler
state",
"totalitarian language", and Soviet use of family networks to insure
discipline and control illuminating.

Actually the only short coming of this very interesting book is that is
was
published in 1988 just before the end of the Soviet Union and thus
produced
without the use of the since partially-opened Soviet archives. He only
has
limited information on the Katyn massacres for instance. While this
should not
affect his conclusions or insights, it may give more accurate statistics
than
those quoted. Perhaps a new revised edition is called for. In the
meantime,
this book should be a welcome addition to any library on Polish history,
Soviet history or the history of World War II.
From: "edtar" <edtar@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:01:44 -0400
To: <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Information about Kresy

The best source of information about Kresy is the book "Z Kresow
Wschodnich
R.P. Na Wygnanie". It is a collection of memories and descriptions of
settlements of 142 survivors of Kresy from almost as many Osady
(settlements)
on the Kresy. Unfortunately it is only in Polish. I was told once that
it is
being translated. The book (700 pages) was published by Ognisko Rodzin
Osadnikow Kresowych in London, 1996. ISBN 1 872286 33 X, printed by
Caldra
House LTD, 23 Coleridge Street, Hove, Sussex BN3 5AB. The book contains
information about how the settlements came into being, various
statistics and
how they progressed and fared up to 1940- 48.

Edward Tarchalski, Kresowiak
and survivor of Siberia.
62961 - 62980 of 63086