Odp: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
I wrote to Polish Televizji.
TVPOLAND 1 bought film.
TVPOLAND 1 granted {posted} this film 17. 09. 2001 and BBC historic kanal.
Write to one's own TELEVIZJA.
See
Wladyslaw . Czapski
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: "Joe Zelwietro" <deplib@...>
Do: <rwtruska@...>; <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Wyslano: 21 stycznia 2002 20:24
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello Wanda:
An excellent idea. I think the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp.) might
go for a showing of this documentary. It is difficult for MANY
Canadians to get to a major centre to see the film. I am volunteering
to help in convincing CBC to air it.
How can I help?
Joe Zelwietro
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New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
Hello Wanda:
An excellent idea. I think the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp.) might
go for a showing of this documentary. It is difficult for MANY
Canadians to get to a major centre to see the film. I am volunteering
to help in convincing CBC to air it.
How can I help?
Joe Zelwietro
|
Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
I received the attached from Polish paper (in Polish) Czy Sybiracy dostana odszkodowania? Przedstawiciel Zwiazku Sybirakow Jan Bylina powiedzial, ze on podobnie jak inni dawni zeslancy ma nadzieje, ze Rosja kiedys wreszcie wyplaci odszkodowania polskim ofiarom stalinizmu. W czasie zakonczonej w czwartek wizyty w Polsce prezydent Rosji Wladimir Putin przyznal, ze kwestie zadoscuczynienia dla polskich ofiar stalinizmu nalezy rozwiazac. Rosja posiada ustawe o zadoscuczynieniu dla ofiar stalinizmu. MSZ-ty obu krajow maja ustalic, jak wlaczyc Polakow do dzialania tej ustawy. Jan Bylina w wywiadzie dla radiowych Sygnalow Dnia zastrzegl, ze polskich Sybirakow nie interesuja odszkodowania w wysokosci przyznawanej Rosjanom, czyli po sto kilkadziesiat dolarow. Bylina podkreslil, ze rozwiazanie tej bolesnej sprawy jest bardzo pilne. Wyjasnil, ze kiedy w 1989 roku zostal zalozony Zwiazek Sybirakow, grupowal ponad 100 tysiecy osob, a teraz nalezy do niego juz tylko 50 tysiecy czlonkow, gdyz co roku kilka tysiecy umiera. Gosc Polskiego Radia uwaza, ze odszkodowania od Rosji powinny zostac wyplacone na podobnej zasadzie jak odszkodowania dla pracownikow przymusowych z Niemiec. Szef partii rosyjskich nacjonalistow Wladimir Zyrinowski nie wyklucza mozliwosci wyplacenia odszkodowan Polakom poszkodowanym przez Zwiazek Radziecki. W wywiadzie dla Polskiego Radia -- Zyrinowski zastrzegl, ze uzaleznione to jest -- miedzy innymi -- od stanu rosyjskich finansow. Wladimir Zyrinowski dodal, ze prawo do odszkodowan powinni miec tez obywatele Zwiazku Radzieckiego -- lub ich spadkobiercy -- poszkodowani przez panstwo polskie. Chodzi o czerwonoarmistow, ktorzy -- jak utrzymuje strona rosyjska -- zgineli w polskiej niewoli po wojnie 1920 roku .On 21 Jan 2002, at 13:55, Eve5J@... wrote: Dear Listers:
This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed. Shortly I
will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and the
rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda posted a while
ago for land compensation. Although, as my father used to say, we
have "a snowball's chance in hell" of receiving any compensation
whatsoever, that is not the point and neither is revenge. The point
is acknowledgment; therefore, admission of guilt.
I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
to the "wolf" at War's end. Since the majority of the world
continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
any time in the near future. This fact still shocks me almost
as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
Chris's site.
Eve Jankowicz
Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on
Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
question was brought up.
Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been
acknowledged for some ten years, and are receiving
compensation--even though it is a pittance. But as one Polish
survivor stated: "We haven't received even one penny." Compensation
presently is limited to those who were residing in the former lands
of the USSR and still live there--I assume that the countless Polish
graves there don't count.
Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as
Stalin's son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian
historians and writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis,
and Russian Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be
described as revisionism, denial and whitewashing.
Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I
doubt if it was shown by Moscow TV.
Chris, Toronto
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Chris,
When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
in war?
We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
till we are all blue in the face. Money cannot compensate
for anything, least of all the loss of loved ones.
This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
(bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our families.
It's not a platform for airing our personal views on "right" and
"wrong" or "good" and "bad". Elizabeth
From: "polish" <polish@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
____________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be
able to provide this material to us. -- Stefan
Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
site. The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with
The Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture
by Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
University of Toronto THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE
USSR, 1940-41
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and
mutual support under our shared aims. Yes, this is about
recognition and it is about our loved ones and not just about money.
Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn
or simply worked to death in the remote USSR. I believe that Chris'
website "Poland's Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi
Terror" tells this story all too well.
()
It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not
to feel a sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but
they were denied for decades by the powers of the world. Often,
this question of "compensation" is tied to a recognition of
wrongdoing, which is required to achieve a reconciliation with the
past, in order to allow us to move forward in greater harmony and
understanding.
Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany
was recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors
or their families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old
wounds. -- Stefan
Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
in war?
Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the
Soviets/Russians to Poles for loss of property, suffering,
slave-labour, during WWII and under Stalinism Message: 10
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"
will be shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week
of the Holocaust Commemoration.
Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few
years time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and
more broadly recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet
alliance. Stefan
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...>
Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia
Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
support for our shared aims.
However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
me and my family, and to many others.
Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right" and
"wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
historical footnote?
If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about
the return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
train trip to History repeating iteslf.
Chris
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is
to keep
alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was
a monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian
attempts to subjugate and obliterate Poland.
I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians
are the same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological
facade or not. The poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the
just desserts of a legacy of
betrayal and malice on her part.
They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can
provide
a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
relatives suffered under the Russians. Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
From: rwtruksa@...
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Well said Stefan
It is about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of
polish nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole
nation off the face of the planet, and it is about finding out what
happened to l.7 million of
innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings
and it
is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted.. Perhaps it is
not in the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests. Wanda
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?
Dear John,
It is one month exactly since you joined the group. As a new member
you may not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of
racial discord or enter into historical debates about whether Hitler
or Stalin were more evil.
To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments
from members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of
purpose. I will not hesitate to do that if necessary.
Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few
exchanges and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research,
remember, and recognise the tragedy of our families and their
neighbours in Eastern Poland that resulted from the Nazi-Soviet
alliance and the outcomes of the war?
I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive
debates, the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some
specific "projects" or initiatives. One of these which is gathering
strength is the screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in
multiple centres around the world. Another is the development of a
database of deportee families and where they ended up after the war.
If you would like to assist with these or other programs, please
let me know.
Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
Stefan Wisniowski
J Roy-Wojciechowski Honorary Consul, Republic of Poland 51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland. NZ. Tel.649 534 4670. Fax. 649 535 4068 email(polish@...) website www.polishheritage.co.nz
|
Re: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
Stefan, it's not 23rd March, it's 23 January, a day after tomorrow! Jagna
|
Re: Hoover Institution/Records of Deportation Years
Hello Henry and List -
I feel that your father gave the names of the deceased, the number of
families deported, and other information to insure it was recorded for
posterity--to bear witness to the tragedy that befell our families during this
dark period of Polish history.? For this I thank him, the thousands of
others who left statements, Irena Czernichowska and the Hoover Instititution, Wladyslaw Anders Collection.
Regarding the records of the deportees, specifically of those who perished,
did the Soviets keep records of names?? From what I've read, it does not
seem likely, or are we supposed to be supplying them with the names of
our deceased family members so that a record will be compiled?? I'm
confused about these matters.?
Eve Jankowicz??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
There were 45 families (3 of them Ukrainian) and 4 singles for a total
of 142 deportees from the powiats of Sambor and Dobromil. The specific
places they came from are: " Felsztyn, Gleboka (G?e,boka), Czaple
(kolonis'ci z Zachodu - colonists from the west), dwie rodziny z (2
families from) Laszek Murowanych, 1 family from Szumincy, 1 family
from Bylic, 1 z okolic (1 from the vicinity of) Drohobycza, i reszta z
(and the rest from) Lozow (?ozo'w) powiata dobromilskiego (kolonis'ci
od Krosna - colonists from Krosno)."
That first summer of 1940 they had an epidemic of Typhus and some 20
people died. In total, by August 1942, 32 of the original 142 had died
(not quite 25%). Almost half were children or teenagers.
For some reason, my father wrote down the names of the deceased. Here
are the surnames: Materna, Szajna, Skraba, Dolenko (Do?en'ko), Biskup,
Hawret, Kondziolka (Kondzio?ka), Panek, Bachman, Antosz, Zak,
Czarnota, Domaradzki, Prystoj, Cynkar, Batycka, Kwolek, Rysz,
Horysniak (Horys'niak).
The archives must be a gold mine if there exist thousands of
statements such as this.
Henry Sokolowski????
?
|
Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Dear Listers:
This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed.? Shortly
I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
posted a while ago for land compensation.? Although, as my
father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
and neither is revenge.? The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
admission of guilt.
I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
to the "wolf" at War's end.? Since the majority of the world
continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
any time in the near future.? This fact still shocks me almost
as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
Chris's site.
Eve Jankowicz
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on?
Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
question was brought up.
Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been acknowledged
for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it is
a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.
Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as Stalin's
son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
revisionism, denial and whitewashing.
Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I doubt
if it was shown by Moscow TV.
Chris, Toronto
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Chris,
When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
in war?
We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
till we are all blue in the face.? Money cannot compensate
for anything, least of all the loss of? loved ones.
This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
(bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
families.? It's not a platform for airing our personal
views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
Elizabeth
?? From: "polish"
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
____________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
?? From: Stefan Wisniowski
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be able to
provide this material to us.
--
Stefan
> Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
> site.
>> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with The
>> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
>> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
>> University of Toronto
>> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41
Message: 9
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
?? From: Stefan Wisniowski
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and mutual
support under our shared aims.? Yes, this is about recognition and it is
about our loved ones and not just about money.
Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or simply
worked to death in the remote USSR.? I believe that Chris' website "Poland's
Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this story
all too well.
(http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)
It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to feel a
sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were denied
for decades by the powers of the world.? Often, this question of
"compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is required to
achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move forward
in greater harmony and understanding.
Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany was
recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or their
families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
--
Stefan
> Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
>> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
>> in war?
>>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
>>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
>>> under Stalinism
Message: 10
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
?? From: Stefan Wisniowski
Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey" will be
shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the Holocaust
Commemoration.?
Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few years
time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more broadly
recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
Stefan
Message: 11
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
?? From: "chrisgladun"
Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia
Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
support for our shared aims.
However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
me and my family, and to many others.?
Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
historical footnote?
If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
train trip to History repeating iteslf.
Chris
Message: 12
?? Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
?? From: "W.A. L."
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to keep
alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a
monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts to
subjugate and obliterate Poland.
I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians are the
same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not. The
poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a legacy of
betrayal and malice on her part.
They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can provide
a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
relatives suffered under the Russians.
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
?? From: rwtruksa@...
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Well said Stefan
It is? about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of polish
nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off the face
of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7 million of?
innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings and it
is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted..? Perhaps it is not in
the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
Wanda
?? From: Stefan Wisniowski
Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?
Dear John,
It is one month exactly since you joined the group.? As a new member you may
not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial discord or
enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more evil.
To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments from
members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.? I will
not hesitate to do that if necessary.
Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few exchanges
and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and recognise
the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland that
resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?
I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive debates,
the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
"projects" or initiatives.? One of these which is gathering strength is the
screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around the
world.? Another is the development of a database of deportee families and
where they ended up after the war.? If you would like to assist with these
or other programs, please let me know.
Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
Stefan Wisniowski
|
Hi Stefan!
Count me in on whatever projects you need help with! I'll do what ever I can
to help.
Betty- CT
|
Re: Welcome to Marco Carynnyk
We send a warm welcome to you, Marco! Your book sounds very interesting;
let us know when it's published! I'd love to read it, and I'm sure many,
many others, also.
Betty CT
|
Dear John,
It is one month exactly since you joined the group. As a new member you may
not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial discord or
enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more evil.
To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments from
members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose. I will
not hesitate to do that if necessary.
Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few exchanges
and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and recognise
the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland that
resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?
I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive debates,
the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
"projects" or initiatives. One of these which is gathering strength is the
screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around the
world. Another is the development of a database of deportee families and
where they ended up after the war. If you would like to assist with these
or other programs, please let me know.
Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
Stefan Wisniowski
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: "W.A.L. (John Brown)" <w_a_l_@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re:What do u think?
|
Odp: Fw: [psa-info] lecture
look my pages
W.Czapski
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Wiadomo?? oryginalna -----
Wys?ano: 20 stycznia 2002 22:17
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] Fw: [psa-info]
lecture
For Your information...
?The
Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies
in
conjunction with
The
Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada
will
present a lecture by
???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ?Alexander
J. Opalinski
Ph.D.
Candidate, Department of History
??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? University of Toronto
??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? The Deportations of
Polish
Citizens to the USSR,
1940¨C41
????
??? ??? ??? ???
??? Tuesday,
February 5th, 2002
???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? 7:30 PM
??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? Music Room, Hart House
(University
of Toronto)
?
???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? Free
Admission
Community email
addresses:
? Post message: psa-info@...
?
Subscribe:??? psa-info-subscribe@...
?
Unsubscribe:? psa-info-unsubscribe@...
? List
owner:?? psa-info-owner@...
Shortcut URL to this
page:
?
Visit
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The American media (started by Jews) insists Hitler is the worst dictator ever, even though Stalin killed much more people, 14 million Ukrainians in the '30s compared to Hitler's 8 during the entire WWII. Besides that Stalin killed countless Poles, and his own people (2-3million officers), during his paranoid purges.
However, the Soviet killing machine relied on Stalin as its master, wheras Hitler inaugurated an unstoppable organization, in which every individual was equally committed. Hitler's machine was unchanged by his death, chugging along until the Allies or Reds neared.
So, who do you think was worse: Stalin - who killed more people in cruel and barbaric ways, or Hitler- who begat an unstoppable machine that ran with cold Teutonic efficiency?
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Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to keep alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts to subjugate and obliterate Poland.
I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians are the same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not. The poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a legacy of betrayal and malice on her part.
They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can provide a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose relatives suffered under the Russians.
Let's face it, those bastards are white, but they rule in the cruel and inhuman manner of Oriental regimes.
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Re: Deportations to Siberia
Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
support for our shared aims.
However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
me and my family, and to many others.
Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.
Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
historical footnote?
If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
train trip to History repeating iteslf.
Chris
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Re: Deportations to Siberia
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Re: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
Hi
Our efforts are to have the video shown on Canadian Broadcasting Corp. TV
station all accross Canada. Would that be agreeable .
Wanda
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Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
Well said Stefan
It is about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of polish
nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off the face
of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7 million of
innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings and it
is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted.. Perhaps it is not in
the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
Wanda
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New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey
I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey" will be
shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the Holocaust
Commemoration.
Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few years
time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more broadly
recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
Stefan
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Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and mutual
support under our shared aims. Yes, this is about recognition and it is
about our loved ones and not just about money.
Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or simply
worked to death in the remote USSR. I believe that Chris' website "Poland's
Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this story
all too well.
()
It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to feel a
sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were denied
for decades by the powers of the world. Often, this question of
"compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is required to
achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move forward
in greater harmony and understanding.
Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany was
recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or their
families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
--
Stefan
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Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
in war?
Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
under Stalinism
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Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be able to
provide this material to us.
--
Stefan
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Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
site. The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with The
Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
University of Toronto
THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41
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Welcome to Marco Carynnyk
Please welcome Marco to the group. I hope that we can be of assistance to
him, and that he can help promote an understanding of the tragedy that
befell our families and their neighbours at the hands of the Soviets.
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator
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From: "Marco Carynnyk" <mcarynnyk7882@...> I am a writer, editor, and translator. At present I am writing a book about
Ukrainians, Jews, and Poles in Galicia and Volhynia in the summer of 1941.
At the centre of the book are the events just before and just after the
German occupation of these regions--the NKVD killings of prisoners and the
pogroms that occurred when the killings were discovered. But the book ranges
forward and backward in history and discusses relations between the three
peoples. I'm particularly interested in locating accounts of the Soviet
deportations from these regions in 1940 and 1941.
Marco Carynnyk
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