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There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
From: jagna8@...
2. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
3. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
4. Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR
From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
5. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
6. Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey
From: "John Roy" <polish@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:29:25 EST
From: jagna8@...
Subject: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey

Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event? All
TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will

to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,

caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of

efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
(which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our

to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the

at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important

so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political

and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey

MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in, some
apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
conclusion.
Cheers for now, Jagna


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: George Neisser <George.Neisser@...>
Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey

Dear all
Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
Jagna's email very encouraging.

There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive
and very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).

I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent

and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story that needs
to be told.

I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
could be "A Polish Odyssey"

I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.

Best wishes

George

Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event?

TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will

to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic,

caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of

efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
(which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our

to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the

at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important

so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political

and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian

MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,

apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
conclusion.
Cheers for now, Jagna

--
George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
Manchester UK M13 9PL


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:54:37 +1100
From: "george krajewski" <jerzy1@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have

Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister are

Regards to everybody.
George Krajewski (Jurek)
----- Original Message -----
From: Eve5J@...
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR


Dear Listers:

This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed. Shortly
I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
posted a while ago for land compensation. Although, as my
father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
and neither is revenge. The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
admission of guilt.

I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
to the "wolf" at War's end. Since the majority of the world
continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
any time in the near future. This fact still shocks me almost
as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
Chris's site.

Eve Jankowicz


Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on
Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
question was brought up.

Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been acknowledged
for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it is
a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.

Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as Stalin's
son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
revisionism, denial and whitewashing.

Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I doubt
if it was shown by Moscow TV.

Chris, Toronto





Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Chris,

When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
in war?

We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
till we are all blue in the face. Money cannot compensate
for anything, least of all the loss of loved ones.

This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
(bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
families. It's not a platform for airing our personal
views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
Elizabeth

From: "polish" <polish@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.

____________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be

provide this material to us.
--
Stefan

> Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
> site.

>> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with

>> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
>> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
>> University of Toronto
>> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and

support under our shared aims. Yes, this is about recognition and it

about our loved ones and not just about money.

Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or

worked to death in the remote USSR. I believe that Chris' website

Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this

all too well.
()

It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to

sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were

for decades by the powers of the world. Often, this question of
"compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is

achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move

in greater harmony and understanding.

Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany

recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or

families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
--
Stefan

> Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
>> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
>> in war?
>>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians

>>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII

>>> under Stalinism

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey

I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey"

shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the

Commemoration.

Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few

time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more

recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
Stefan

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
From: "chrisgladun" <cgladun@...>
Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia

Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
support for our shared aims.

However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
me and my family, and to many others.

Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.

Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
historical footnote?

If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
train trip to History repeating iteslf.

Chris

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
From: "W.A. L." <w_a_l_@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to

alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a
monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts

subjugate and obliterate Poland.

I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians

same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not.

poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a

betrayal and malice on her part.

They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can

a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
relatives suffered under the Russians.



Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
From: rwtruksa@...
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Well said Stefan
It is about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of

nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off

of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7

innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings

is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted.. Perhaps it is

the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
Wanda

From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?

Dear John,
It is one month exactly since you joined the group. As a new member

not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial

enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more

To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments

members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose. I

not hesitate to do that if necessary.

Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few

and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and

the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland

resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?

I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive

the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
"projects" or initiatives. One of these which is gathering strength

screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around

world. Another is the development of a database of deportee families

where they ended up after the war. If you would like to assist with

or other programs, please let me know.

Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
Stefan Wisniowski






+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:06:54 +0100
From: "Elizabeth" <silverfox@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Dzien dobry Jurek (George),

Who, or what is the Goyniewicz Foundation?
Where is it?

To whom, in the Polish government, do we write to lobby
for full restoration of this Foundation's funding?

Elizabeth

----- Original Message -----
From: george krajewski
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR


Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow
For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have

Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister

Regards to everybody.
George Krajewski (Jurek)










[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:30:53 +1300
From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey

Do not despair. I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
FOR 200 TO ATTEND.

JR

On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:

Dear all
Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
Jagna's email very encouraging.

There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).

I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
that needs to be told.

I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
could be "A Polish Odyssey"

I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.

Best wishes

George

Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
- through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna

--
George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
Manchester UK M13 9PL

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE
CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial

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->

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

John Roy-Wojciechowski
Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
e-mail polish@... website www.polishheritage.co.nz


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:32:13 +1300
From: "John Roy" <polish@...>
Subject: Re: Re: A Forgotten Odyssey

Do not despair. I am holding another session in Auckland NZ for
seniors and RSA (RSL in OZ SPK in polish) and I AM HOPPING
FOR 200 TO ATTEND.

JR

On 25 Jan 2002, at 10:30, George Neisser wrote:

Dear all
Just to say that, despite the poor attendance figure, I find
Jagna's email very encouraging.

There are many Poles who were deported by the Soviets still alive and
very active in Britain, (my uncle is one of them!).

I personally welcome the initiative to make the British political
establishment aware of this particular Polish tragedy. Most British
people are completely oblivious to what happened in Soviet occupied
Poland in the period 1939 to June 22nd 1941 and of the subsequent
sufferings and tribulations of the deported peoples. This is a story
that needs to be told.

I think a conference in London is an excellent idea! Perhaps the theme
could be "A Polish Odyssey"

I look forward to viewing the film on 23rd February in Manchester.

Best wishes

George

Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust
event? All TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats... Talked today,
ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try to
organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find
- through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic,
patriotic, and caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe
one day we should organise a conference in London, to bring such
people with the fruit of their efforts, and try to make Poland
'sexy' again (which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On
Febr. 23, during our trip to manchester, we are meeting the newly
appointed director of the exhibitions at the IWM, who was invited to
the screening (as well as two important MPs) - so we will discuss
Bernard's Great idea (top secret still). Before Christmas I sent
about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations' and strong
letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in,
some apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they
will start talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach
some decent conclusion. Cheers for now, Jagna

--
George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
Manchester UK M13 9PL

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE
CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial

---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
+ Research, Remembrance, Recognition
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Websites:
+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+ Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
+ saying who you are and your interest in the group
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
+ Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

John Roy-Wojciechowski
Honorary Consul,Republic of Poland
51 Granger Road, Howick, Auckland, New Zealand
Phone 649 5344670 Fax 649 5354068
e-mail polish@... website www.polishheritage.co.nz


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

----- Original Message -----

From: george krajewski

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:54 PM

Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Dear Ladies and Gentleman, Koledzy z Kresow

For the last few weeks i am away during the week and friday night I have the pleasure to recieve my emails, tonight? I have a problem, we Sybiraczy are not trying to get compensation for what we lost, for ourselves, we send tousend of dollars a year?to Bialorus, Ukraina an were Polish people are being persecuted for being Polish. We are trying to mantain schools, churches and everything Polish in our Land before the war, the land that we have being ethnically cleanse since 1793, the land that?4.5 M Poles?still try to survive. Now the Polish Goverment has cut money from the Goyniewicz Foundation, our duty will be to put enought pressure to sostain the funs, our duty, we people from Kresy?is to maintain our Polish Heritage in the Land of our ancestors.

Wanda are you going to the reunion from India, My Wife and her sister are going, if so will be a pleasure to meet.

Regards to everybody.

George Krajewski (Jurek)






?

----- Original Message -----

From: Eve5J@...

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:55 AM

Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Dear Listers:

This list is precisely the place for discussion of these issues.
In fact, this was the primary reason this list was formed.? Shortly
I will be sending letters on behalf of my three aunts, myself, and
the rest of my family to the address in Canada that Wanda
posted a while ago for land compensation.? Although, as my
father used to say, we have "a snowball's chance in hell" of
receiving any compensation whatsoever, that is not the point
and neither is revenge.? The point is acknowledgment; therefore,
admission of guilt.

I would also like to see some form of acknowledgment or
apology from the Allied of World War II for throwing Poland
to the "wolf" at War's end.? Since the majority of the world
continues to know nothing of what occurred to our families
during the War, I don't suppose apologies will be forthcoming
any time in the near future.? This fact still shocks me almost
as much as the photo of the starved, skeletal Polish boys on
Chris's site.

Eve Jankowicz

Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
under Stalinism, I saw the news report on Polish TV (Toronto)on?
Putin's visit to Poland and meeting with Kwasniewski, where this
question was brought up.

Soviet citizens who were victims of Stalinism, have been acknowledged
for some ten years, and are receiving compensation--even though it is
a pittance. But as one Polish survivor stated: "We haven't received
even one penny." Compensation presently is limited to those who were
residing in the former lands of the USSR and still live there--I
assume that the countless Polish graves there don't count.

Putin stipulated that any comparison or linkage between Nazi crimes
and Soviet crimes is not acceptable, and would not be productive.
What gall! We are witnessing Russian dilution of the suffering of
Poles and other nations at the hands of the Soviets--even as Stalin's
son is heading a new party in Russia! Some Russian historians and
writers still place Katyn at the hands of the Nazis, and Russian
Historiography, especially its teaching, can only be described as
revisionism, denial and whitewashing.

Yet Putin did lay a wreath at the monument to the Polish underground
and AK which would have been unthinkable a few years ago--but I doubt
if it was shown by Moscow TV.

Chris, Toronto

Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Chris,

When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
in war?

We can discuss the question of monetary compensation
till we are all blue in the face.? Money cannot compensate
for anything, least of all the loss of? loved ones.

This website is all about research, remembering and recognising
(bringing to the attention of others) what happened to our
families.? It's not a platform for airing our personal
views on "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad".
Elizabeth

?? From: "polish" Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.

____________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:40:24 +1100
?? From: Stefan Wisniowski
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

I have asked Alexander to join our group, and I hope that he will be able to
provide this material to us.
--
Stefan

> Someone(Steve?) should arrange to have this material on our web
> site.

>> The Konstanty Reynert Chair of Polish Studies in conjunction with The
>> Adam Mickiewicz Foundation in Canada will present a lecture by
>> Alexander J. Opalinksi, Ph.D Candidate, Department of History,
>> University of Toronto
>> THE DEPORTATIONS OF POLISH CITIZENS TO THE USSR, 1940-41


Message: 9
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:03:34 +1100
?? From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

If I could make this observation with a plea for understanding and mutual
support under our shared aims.? Yes, this is about recognition and it is
about our loved ones and not just about money.

Many in our group have lost dear family members to the
Soviet/Bolshevik/Communist system - whether to the bullet in Katyn or simply
worked to death in the remote USSR.? I believe that Chris' website "Poland's
Holocaust - A Family Chronicle of Soviet and Nazi Terror" tells this story
all too well.
(http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/6764/intro.html)

It is difficult for people who have suffered these experiences not to feel a
sense of injustice - not only did these things happen, but they were denied
for decades by the powers of the world.? Often, this question of
"compensation" is tied to a recognition of wrongdoing, which is required to
achieve a reconciliation with the past, in order to allow us to move forward
in greater harmony and understanding.

Perhaps the fact that the forced labour of millions by Nazi Germany was
recognised with (albeit nominal) compensation to the survivors or their
families last year has only rubbed more salt into the old wounds.
--
Stefan

> Yes Elizabeth, its all about knowledge not revenge.
>> When will you understand that NO ONE is a winner
>> in war?
>>> Re admission of guilt/repartions/justice, by the Soviets/Russians to
>>> Poles for loss of property, suffering, slave-labour, during WWII and
>>> under Stalinism

Message: 10
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +1100
?? From: Stefan Wisniowski
Subject: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey

I have just heard that on Wednesday 23 March, "A Forgotten Odyssey" will be
shown in Manchester, England, as part of the national week of the Holocaust
Commemoration.?

Perhaps, thanks to efforts of people like Jagna and Aneta, in a few years
time the tragedy of Eastern Poland will be better known and more broadly
recognised as a terrible outcome of the Nazi-Soviet alliance.
Stefan

Message: 11
?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:40:17 -0000
?? From: "chrisgladun"
Subject: Re: Deportations to Siberia

Thank you Stefan in your plea for understanding and mutual
support for our shared aims.

However, Elizabeth, I do find your condescending (and bizarre)
statement re winners in war, to be personally offensive. I don't
understand the basis of your self-righteous and critical attitude to
me and my family, and to many others.?

Elizabeth, you don't have to join the rest of us in discussing
compensation, which we all know has less to do with money than with
acknowledgment. But please understand that for many who suffered, it
brings a modicum of justice, as Stefan pointed out.

Kresy-Siberia is pracisely THE platform for discussing "right"
and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" What should we do--air our impersonal
views? Was Katyn "right" or "wrong?" Was the Gulag not "bad?" Shall
we commit mmoral suicide, and designate "Auschwitz" as a mere
historical footnote?

If demanding justice and publicising crimes, raising alarms about the
return of Stalinism, confronting revisionism and denial, and
uncovering graves both literally and figuratively--and naming the
killers, are wrongheaded personal views that don't belong here, then
this group should just pack it's few shabby belongings for the long
train trip to History repeating iteslf.

Chris

Message: 12
?? Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:25:57 -0800
?? From: "W.A. L."
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

I must agree with Chris in the matter. The purpose of this group is to keep
alive the memory of Polish suffering under Stalin. As much as he was a
monster, he was only continuing the long heritage of Russian attempts to
subjugate and obliterate Poland.

I don't trust Putin, anymore than I trust Stalin's son, the Russians are the
same, whether they hide behind a political/ideological facade or not. The
poverty and suffering of today's Russia is the just desserts of a legacy of
betrayal and malice on her part.

They say money cannot buy happiness, but nor can poverty. Money can provide
a miniscule amount of security and perhaps justice, for those whose
relatives suffered under the Russians.

?? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:14:40 EST
?? From: rwtruksa@...
Subject: Re: Polish Deportations to USSR

Well said Stefan
It is? about the crime against humanity, it is about genbocide of polish
nation, it is about planned aggression to wipe the whole nation off the face
of the planet, and it is about finding out what happened to l.7 million of?
innocent polish people including our parents, relatives or sibblings and it
is about knowledge so future crimes can be averted..? Perhaps it is not in
the scope of Kressy-Siberia interests.
Wanda

?? From: Stefan Wisniowski
Subject: Re: Re:What do u think?

Dear John,
It is one month exactly since you joined the group.? As a new member you may
not realise that the purpose here is not to fan flames of racial discord or
enter into historical debates about whether Hitler or Stalin were more evil.

To all group members, as moderator it is my job to restrict comments from
members that threaten its cooperative nature and unity of purpose.? I will
not hesitate to do that if necessary.

Can we please reduce the level of emotion raised in the last few exchanges
and refocus us on our purpose, which is to research, remember, and recognise
the tragedy of our families and their neighbours in Eastern Poland that
resulted from the Nazi-Soviet alliance and the outcomes of the war?

I have been suggesting that instead of participating in divisive debates,
the group may wish to harness and focus its energy on some specific
"projects" or initiatives.? One of these which is gathering strength is the
screening of the film A Forgotten Odyssey in multiple centres around the
world.? Another is the development of a database of deportee families and
where they ended up after the war.? If you would like to assist with these
or other programs, please let me know.

Thank you all for your enthusiasm and cooperation,
Stefan Wisniowski

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Hi Stefan, guess how many people attended yesterday's Holocaust event? All
TWELVE of them!!! For 300 seats...
Talked today, ruinously, to Micheal, and got some valuable advice - will try
to organise the showings of her film in London. I am delighted to find -
through this network- so many 'free shooters' - enthusiastic, patriotic, and
caring about reputation of Poland in the world. Maybe one day we should
organise a conference in London, to bring such people with the fruit of their
efforts, and try to make Poland 'sexy' again
(which it was, for instance, during Solidarity). On Febr. 23, during our trip
to manchester, we are meeting the newly appointed director of the exhibitions
at the IWM, who was invited to the screening (as well as two important MPs) -
so we will discuss Bernard's Great idea (top secret still).
Before Christmas I sent about twenty cassettes, with political 'compilations'
and strong letters demanding official recognition of the Siberian odyssey to
MPs and Lords, leaders of the parties. Answers are slowly coming in, some
apoplectic, some somewhat shattered - I just hope that they will start
talking about it amongst themselves, and maybe will reach some decent
conclusion.
Cheers for now, Jagna

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:21:38 EST
From: BettyLL@...
Subject: Re: New showing of A Forgotten Odyssey

Does anyone know if that video on "A Forgotten Odyssey" is available in the
U.S.? We wish to see it, too.
Yesterday I sent an e-mail to my cousin in Canada about Alexander J.
Opalinski's lecture on Deportations of Polish Citizens to Siberia during
WWII at the University of Toronto February 5th 7:30. He may not be back from
his trip to Poland, but if anyone is going could you summarize for us?
Betty - CT

----- Original Message -----

From: Stefan Wisniowski

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 10:13 PM

Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Changing e-mail receipt options

Dear Richard
I hope you are better soon - I will make the change for you.

To all group members: ?you can change the way you want to receive messages yourselves. ?The options are:
- get each message, one at a time
- get one e-mail daily, as a digest collecting all that day's messages
- get no e-mails at all, and read the messages on the web site

To make your changes, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia and register as a "Yahoo member".

Otherwise, I can make the change for you. ?If somebody wants to change e-mail options and ?needs help with this, please let me know by direct e-mail (no need to send it to the whole list).
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...

From: "richard.czarnecki"
Subject: no more emails for all members ???

Hallo,

I?d like to stay a member of yours groups, but I?m at the moment in a hospital for approximately two months more & would like not to get all the emails from all the members automatically, but only individually, when somebody would like & have still the free access to all yours websites?

Is that possibly?

Greetings for all from Hamburg.

Sincerely yours,

Richard Czarnecki

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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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George

I have a copy on VHS if you wish I can send it to you

Paul

At 00:08 01/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:

Hello Jagna
I am based in Manchester and would like to see
this film.

Could you please give us details of time and venue?

Many thanks

Best Regards

George Neisser

Stefan, it's not 23rd March, it's 23 January, a day after tomorrow! Jagna

--
George Neisser BSc, PhD Email: George.Neisser@...
Manchester Computing Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6008
University of Manchester Fax: +44 (0) 161 275 6040
Manchester UK M13 9PL


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From: "richard.czarnecki"
Subject: no more emails for all members ???

Hallo,

I?d like to stay a member of yours groups, but I?m at the moment in a hospital for approximately two months more & would like not to get all the emails from all the members automatically, but only individually, when somebody would like & have still the free access to all yours websites?

Is that possibly?

Greetings for all from Hamburg.

Sincerely yours,

Richard Czarnecki

Stefan, it's not 23rd March, it's 23 January, a day after tomorrow! Jagna