Re: Eco 65 houseboat "Galadriel"
Hi Holger
Thanks for the pics. A nice reminder that also with our treary weather boatbuilding is possible. Good idea to pre-bent srespectively build up three dimensional bent stringers in this way.
Cheers
Bernd
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Re: Eco 65 houseboat "Galadriel"
Hi Holger,
I guess you mean chine stringer instead of sheer stringer?
Gru?, G¨¹nter
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Re: Eco 65 houseboat "Galadriel"
Hi guys,
please watch some new photos from me in my album. Building progress is going on :)
Next smaller things to build were the bended parts of the stringers. I want to pre bend them to reduce pressure and deforming forces when later assembling?the complete hulls.?
Each is?glued together?from three stripes of wood. I used some scrap wood to make a bending jig that follows exactly the shape of the bow. First I glued the four deck stringers for both hulls. To build the sheer stringers, I prepared the jig with some screws and wooden pieces for "3D bending". That allowed me to bend and glue them into 2 directions. The photo is showing the two sheer stringers for the left side of the hulls. The ones for the other side will be bent?in the?mirrored direction.
Best, Holger
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Hi, my name is Luiz, from Rio, build my kd650 6 years ago, whatever you need just ask.-- ?Att,
?Luiz Boms ?Tel_21_982763737
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Hello everybody. I am a newcomer, living in Goi?nia, Brazil and will beguin the construction of the KD 650 catamaran. It woul be very helpfull if other builder coul help me, specially in Brazil, in order to help with suppliers identification (alu profiles, epoxi, fiberglass, carbon fiber, hand machines) and other tips. I Am 70 years old, mechanic engineer, and have built a Sharpie 12m, Penguin, Snipe, Lightning, and a Cross 34 MK2 trimaran. Thank you.
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Graeme
?Okay, I think you mean me. I did not attacke anybody. That my answers are sometimes a bith harsh the followers of this group know.? But I am not so sharp, that I publish the names from the designers which (smallish) catamarans turned turtle what you just was doing. I know from more, but I will never publish names from designers, this is not my way and is of no importance of prospective builders of my designs. In the end any boat can capsize, small, big, power, sail boats, dos not matter.? By the way, there are no alternative multihull stability formules. There is only one physical/mathematical correct stability formule. We can go further back, at school everybody had in physic the leverage theory. For a dynamic stability calculation the sail area and the squared windforse has to be added. With some safety factors and the L/B ratio we are there. So there is no Wharram formulae. That he published these 1977 is possible. The first who has written about these aspects (and not only for multihulls) was Manfred Curry (The Aerodynamics of sails and racing tactics). I have here a revised edition from 1930 where the sail theory is written down in a modern form.? For the rest, I know that you have a lot of experience with boats and are thankful for your contriputions. At last, I see this now more and more in English conversations that the verb "belief" is used where other terms where more appropiate. Belief has something to do with the church and there it belongs. Otherwise are sufficient more accurate terms available.?
Bernd ?
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I¡¯m building an Eco 6.
I have an iPad, and have loaded the dxf files from Bernd into Autocad dwg viewer, which is free on the ios app store: AutoCAD by Autodesk Inc.
If you don¡¯t have an iDevice, I have used Pdfaid through whatever browser is in use (mine is Safari). It is here:?
It¡¯s a free service, and the screens are cluttered with much advertising. Just point it to the dxf file you want to convert to pdf, optionally set some options, and away you go. It comes back with a usable pdf. You just need to avoid clicking on an ad. Tricky!
With previous building projects I would print the drawings A0 orA1 size. With the Eco 6 I print the pdf files A4 size, and occasionally I borrow wife¡¯s A3 printer. I build off the A4 pdfs. For detail I go to my iDevice with Autocad, and can scroll around, zoom in and out, and measure distances and angles to my heart¡¯s content. No need for piles of cumbersome papers.
Autocad does have a print function. It¡¯s a bit convoluted. The app sends the drawing to be plotted as an email attachment to wherever you want to print it, in my case me. I then open the attachment and print it on my own $100 A4 printer, or put it on a memory stick and take it to the local print shop.?
The printed output from Pdfaid is better than that out of Autocad. But, that could be due to my ingnorance of Autocad. Maybe it prints better to A2 or larger than to the smaller sizes. I don¡¯t know.?
I hope this helps.
Rien.
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David
Of course, I was just sending you the DUO 480 C plans as PDF files (first unzip please). I am sure you will be happy with the DUO and no problem with the beam.?
Cheers
Bernd
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Dear David.
You can download a dxf to pdf converter for free, or just use a one time converter. I did it, works like a charm.
Regards, Gerrit.
On Feb 15, 2018 14:33, " david.bryant4@... [k-designs]" < k-designs@...> wrote:
Bernd,
Are the plans for the Duo 480C one of the designs you offer in PDF?
if so, is it possible to exchange my purchase for this boat?
David
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Hi David,
Im a mac user as well, try edrawings, not on mac store, directly on site, they have older releases there if the new one wont run.?
If advise is possible, stick to dxf, a little time spent learning to use the program, but then you can accurately measure anything on the plans... -- ?Att,
?Luiz Boms ?Tel_21_982763737
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Ok then,?a reply to David with?a not so veiled attack on?me and my earlier reply?
Now, I wrote: "Some (...) pushed hard have gone over when racing"
Your sarcastic aside?--?"(when you call this pushed hard ok and have no problem righting a cruising cat with all its gear is no problem to your, up to you)" --?is a red herring diversion?from my example?pertaining to?racing. Trailersailer type cats, any?of them,?launched?to race are hardly likely to have "all its(cruising)?gear". The skipper will ensure they are as light as possible. Further, it's no race if a boat is not pushed to the limits.
OTOH, any idiot or inexperienced skipper can flip almost any boat at almost anytime there's a good sailing breeze, with or without waves.... and if it's of a relatively?narrow beam with a relatively large tall rig, and is relatively light, then so much the easier.
I doubt you understood the intended?meaning of the phrase I used that you?repeatedly pounced on.?"I believe" in general conversation generally means?much the same as "I recall", "I think",?"I recollect", "I don't have the data at my fingertips this minute but know I?have seen or heard it", and etc.
?As for assumed?"beliefs" vs the "facts" you've not referenced?for alleging many Australian cruising type?trailer catamaran designs?capsize, well, feel?free to link to those facts or to?put them?up.
There are many alternative multihull stability formulae, old and new,?with various software availability. One of the earliest to formulate catamaran stability, and to reformulate that in 1977, and apply it to design?is Wharram. (https://www.wharram.com/site/how-we-design/catamaran-stability) The Wharram designs have a?great?safety record re capsize.
Waller trailer catamarans (note?your?plural) are capsize prone?you say? Google apparently?says 'no' to a "waller catamaran capsized" search. Did you mean the TC670 TRAILER CATAMARAN? From?its?design webpage?description: "..Particular care has been taken to ensure that this boat is both a safe and reliable performer, with an efficient sail plan and low profile for windward performance. Note that its intended use is sheltered and semi sheltered waters, and not open water...."
Mike Waller himself?has commented in a Woodwork Forums>Boat Designs/Plans thread that:
"In fact, the standard boat is more stable than it seems, because the Hobie style outrider seats let you get a couple of hundred Kilos of (Bum) ballast much further outboard in stronger winds. Only one has ever capsized (to my knowledge) and this was in a gust measured at 100 kph by the nearby airfield. Notably, an identical TC670 sailing in company did not capsize, and they righter her and sailed her home. In the final analysis, safety in these narrow cats is more about the common sense of the crew than anything else. I have had several queries from builders wanting to make her into a blue water cruiser and I have tried to dissuade all of them." (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f33/waller-tc-670-a-105124#post1583184) Perhaps you meant the TC750 CATAMARAN? A much bigger boat all round. "Particular care has been taken to ensure that this boat is both a safe and reliable performer, with an emphasis on good cruising performance and accomodation rather than all out racing, in keeping with its intended use as a family boat. Note that its intended area of use is sheltered and semi sheltered waters, and not open water.
... Note that this vessel is wider than the standard road trailing width for most areas. Normally this yacht would live on a trailer frame at the local yacht club (much cheaper than a berth or mooring)."
DUO 425? Like I said, heaps of off the beach racing class type Australian catamarans have capsized.
Graeme ---In k-designs@..., <Bernd@...> wrote : Hi David
Again, I know from more cats which are to small and from all designers and that the turned over above windforce 3. (when you call this pushed hard ok and have no problem righting a cruising cat with all its gear is no problem to your, up to you)? I know that even Waller cats where turned over, nothing to do with belief. Look, I have developed programs where you can calculate the stability and speed of catamarans (with a safety factor of 90% by the way). See download page. You can lod them down and make the calculations for yourself. Calculations have nothing to do with belief, but are facts. It is of course up to you to belief, but this is not my strong point. I try to design safe boats for my clients that is all. Non of my boats ever turned over, besides one DUO 425 at the Baldenei lake in Germany.?
Bernd
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Bernd,
I have been thinking about this problem and decided not to cause you any more trouble with it. ?Please refund ,cost for the ECO 6 plans.
I'm sorry for the inconvenience. ?It won't happen again.
David
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Bernd,
Are the plans for the Duo 480C one of the designs you offer in PDF?
if so, is it possible to exchange my purchase for this boat?
David
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Bernd,
The ability to read the files isn't even the limiting factor here. ?I have contacted many professional blue print and design printing firms that will not print anything but PDF files. ?So to print these to paper so i can use them would require PDF. ?Perhaps it is different in EU or elsewhere but unfortunately here in the US some of our services may not be as flexible. ?
An alternative may be to simply print them yourself and ship them to me. ?
David
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David
Correct, not all plans are available as PDF files. The ECO 6 is a revised, or better, new design. This is the reason also Duckworks has the drawings not as PDF files. As I mentioned it is a three part oberationand takes time. You are the first who would like them as PDF files. I do not understand why, because also with the MAC programs exists which can read DXF files direct, so there is no need for the PDF files.? But, okay I can do it, it will take about three days, because I have also other work to do. But if you insists I send you the money for the plans (minus Paypal costs ) back.
Bernd
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Berndt,
I am sorry that I have not been able to find software to read the plans and convert them to PDF myself. I have spent a lot of my time looking for software also. ?As I mentioned it may be my older computer and OS that is preventing me from using these programs, however I should not have to invest thousands of dollars on a new computer to read these plans. ?Also you state on the Duckworks website you offer your plans in PDF format, but apparently not the ones I purchased.?
I In a previous email you said you were sending me PDF files but they were not.
If you want you can just refund my money and I will trash the files that I received.
Also, I am sorry that I did not read your advise on vinegar but I was referring to the manufactures information in their epoxy manuals, I apologize for the confusion.
Very Sincerely,
David Bryant
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David
The Internet is full of programs you can use for your MAC to read and print DXF files. Lets start with "Autodesk Fusion" or "2DFreeware for MAC"(by Dassault Systems) and so one. I deliverd you the drawings in the best available CAD/CAM file system and this is DXF. When the CNC company can not use this file system, then this is the problem of this company. Try to find a good one.? N.B. You are the first who is asking to transver the DXF files to PDF files. By the way. The plans consists of 35 drawings as you know. To transfer a drawing (needs three steps) costs about 15 minutes. So in total 9 hours.?
NB: In the short article Epoxyworks.PDF I descripe the use of vinegarfor cleang. Is in the LINK folder and was also on Duckworks magazine some time ago. Besides, in the LINK folder is also the Epoxy Balance to avoid mixture mismatches (was also an article some years ago in Duckworks) Bernd
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Sorry David, see answer other replay. I have the feeling that Yahoo sends the mails in a funny and not so logical way, or I am amiss
Bernd
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David
The Internet is full of programs you can use for your MAC to read and print DXF files. Lets start with "Autodesk Fusion" or "2DFreeware for MAC"(by Dassault Systems) and so one. I deliverd you the drawings in the best available CAD/CAM file system and this is DXF. When the CNC company can not use this file system, then this is the problem of this company. Try to find a good one.? N.B. You are the first who is asking to transver the DXF files to PDF files. By the way. The plans consists of 35 drawings as you know. To transfer a drawing (needs three steps) costs about 15 minutes. So in total 9 hours.?
NB: In the short article Epoxyworks.PDF I descripe the use of vinegarfor cleang. Is in the LINK folder and was also on Duckworks magazine some time ago. Besides, in the LINK folder is also the Epoxy Balance to avoid mixture mismatches (was also an article some years ago in Duckworks) Bernd
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Hi David
Again, I know from more cats which are to small and from all designers and that the turned over above windforce 3. (when you call this pushed hard ok and have no problem righting a cruising cat with all its gear is no problem to your, up to you)? I know that even Waller cats where turned over, nothing to do with belief. Look, I have developed programs where you can calculate the stability and speed of catamarans (with a safety factor of 90% by the way). See download page. You can lod them down and make the calculations for yourself. Calculations have nothing to do with belief, but are facts. It is of course up to you to belief, but this is not my strong point. I try to design safe boats for my clients that is all. Non of my boats ever turned over, besides one DUO 425 at the Baldenei lake in Germany.?
Bernd
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Bernd,
Alas, I could not download this software for my Mac and have not found any other software. ?So it looks like PDF will be the only solution for me.
Could you try to send them again? ?The last set were also DXF.
Thanks
David
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Bernd Kohler