Re: Cost of building

#9368

Hi Berndt - to explain - you take the empty weight of the vessel and multiply it by the cost per kg to get the total cost of materials, ditto for length and build time. i did a quick spreadsheet using some of your designs as an example. 

Boat	Weight	Length	Cost per  kg.	Cost per Meter	Materials Cost By Weight	Materials Cost by Length	Build Time per kg	Build Time per Meter	Build Time by Weight	 Build Time by Length
Duo 425	      44	        4,25	        $35,20	       $1 476,38	                               $1 548,80	                                $6 274,61	                       3,3	                     157,48	                          145	                           669
Duo 480	180	4,8	$35,20	$1 476,38	$6 336,00	$7 086,61	3,3	157,48	594	756
Eco 5.5	289	5,5	$35,20	$1 476,38	$10 172,80	$8 120,08	3,3	157,48	954	866
Eco 7.5	750	7,5	$35,20	$1 476,38	$26 400,00	$11 072,83	3,3	157,48	2475	1181
Duo 8000	830	8,25	$35,20	$1 476,38	$29 216,00	$12 180,12	3,3	157,48	2739	1299
KD 860	1800	8,6	$35,20	$1 476,38	$63 360,00	$12 696,85	3,3	157,48	5940	1354
KD 122	3100	12	$35,20	$1 476,38	$109 120,00	$17 716,54	3,3	157,48	10230	1890
Harryproa 40	800	12	$35,20	$1 476,38	$28 160,00	$17 716,54	3,3	157,48	2640	1890

Sorry that the table doesn't copy across properly aligned but i have manually aligned the first row to help understand it.

What is clear, I think, is that in general there is a better correlation between weight and materials cost than length and materials cost but that length surprisingly gives a better correlation to build time. Where there is a big variance between build time calculated by weight and build time calculated by length e.g. for the KD 122 by weight build time is calculated as 10230 hrs and by length build time is calculated as 1890 hours I would tend to view the length value as an under estimate and possibly add 50% or more to that value giving a build time of 3000+ hours.

Re: KD105 extra info pls.

#9367

If you want more restrained accomodation and assymetric hulls then maybe an open version of the KD 112 would work?

Re: ECO 520

#9366

Thank you for telling me. I have corrected it. But Verizon is slow with uploading web pages, so be patient.
The boat will be about 15 % faster as the DUO 480C

Cheers

Bernd

Re: Composite staples and the manual Rapter stapler

#9365

That is better. In soft wood, it looks okay. But with plywood, the result is not this good.?
As I was building the Cataproa I used the stables for the first time. I was with Pepijn. As he mentioned he has a
hydraulic stable gun. Easy work. But I am afraid after you have placed say 80 stables with the hand-operated stable,
your hands will hurt. I hope I am wrong!

Re: Cost of building

#9364

Hi Ivan

Interessant but confusing. Cost per m-$1476.30 what does this mean??
The others are even more confusing.
Because it is very interesting for many people, so can you explain?

Cheers

Bernd

Re: Composite staples and the manual Rapter stapler

#9363

Hi Rod is the only clamps and screws solution.

The screws, I use the smaller 2x2.5mm and 3x2.5mm.

From my experience, when I am about to screw in the screws on the panel I insert it, take it out immediately and screw it back. In this way the fillet does not take thickened epoxy, so once the resin has dried you can easily remove it. You do a lot of work with screws and it's worth it. Let me be clear and just my advice.

bye

Re: ECO 520

#9362

Bernd, your link to the Eco 520 isn't working on your website. Also, do you have sailing speed estimates for this? How will it do compared to the Duo 480C?

Re: Composite staples and the manual Rapter stapler

#9361

Whoops - I will try to remember to convert iPhone photos to jpeg. Here are the converted files. And yes, As Bernd has pointed out, clamps and screws will still ?be necessary to position panels so I will still be using those where necessary.?

Re: Smaller K Designs models: small and trailerable or larger and more creature comforts

#9360

Its still too early for photos - at the moment I am coating a few panels and working on bulkheads. I have finally found a heated workshop which will be available July 1. I will do my best to post photos once there is something to see. :-)

Cost of building

#9359

Small Craft advisor magazine Nov - Dec 2021 issue have published the results of their amateur boat building survey. Some that might be of interest is the cost of building which are as follows:

Cost per m - $1 476.30
Cost per kg - $35.20
Hours per kg - 3.3 hrs
Hours per m - 157.5 hrs

Bare in mind that these figures are the average for many different small boats ranging from Kayaks to small power and or sailing keel boats but still might help in comparing different designs. I think that most of the amateur builds of followers of the above magazine are timber/ply of some sort or other and are generally less than 28 feet.

The above are based on pre 2020 costs so might see significant material cost increases.

Re: Composite staples and the manual Rapter stapler

#9358

Hi Rod

The problem with the hand-operated stable is that it is difficult to operate them over a longer time.?
As you mentioned, stables can not be used for any procedure. To position parts, screws or clamps are the only way.?
But for any other operation, where we need to hold the parts together till the Epoxy is cured it is the solution.
Please keep us informed.
By the way, please send photos as jpg files.

Cheers

Bernd?

Re: Composite staples and the manual Rapter stapler

#9357

开云体育

Another option for composite brads is:

A bit expensive but working ok. I used it to hold the 8mm panels on the duo1000. Works on a compressor.?

Show quoted text

Op 17 jun. 2022, om 00:20 heeft Rod McLaren <nkosuohene@...> het volgende geschreven:

Here is an early review of the Rapter stapler and the composite staples offered by Duckworks. The stapler just arrived after a brief backorder wait and I was interested to see how it operates. This is a very quick and really quite preliminary review. I will try to add to it after I have made use of it in my ECO 6 build which I have just begun.
Three staple lengths are offered: 1/4 inch, 3/8 inch and 9/16 inch. I will use the stapler primarily to hold 6 mm panels to Douglas Fir stringers and so I ordered 9/16 inch staples. This required turning the tension on the stapler to its higher setting and even with thats the staples are not set flush. However, it looks like it will hold the panels tight enough for the epoxy to set. The crown is easily knocked off and sanding leaves the surface flush.
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Composite staples and the manual Rapter stapler

#9356

Here is an early review of the Rapter stapler and the composite staples offered by Duckworks. The stapler just arrived after a brief backorder wait and I was interested to see how it operates. This is a very quick and really quite preliminary review. I will try to add to it after I have made use of it in my ECO 6 build which I have just begun.
Three staple lengths are offered: 1/4 inch, 3/8 inch and 9/16 inch. I will use the stapler primarily to hold 6 mm panels to Douglas Fir stringers and so I ordered 9/16 inch staples. This required turning the tension on the stapler to its higher setting and even with thats the staples are not set flush. However, it looks like it will hold the panels tight enough for the epoxy to set. The crown is easily knocked off and sanding leaves the surface flush.

Re: Smaller K Designs models: small and trailerable or larger and more creature comforts

#9355

开云体育

Love to see some pics!

Show quoted text

On Jun 16, 2022, at 3:35 PM, Kent Meier <meier_kent@...> wrote:

? Who was the gentleman from Saskatchewan doing a eco 6 build?

On Jun 15, 2022, at 6:29 AM, Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

?
Hi Rod

?

Nice to hear that you have made the first step in building your ECO 6. And nice to read that it is also possible to get a permit for over-width transport in Canada.?

I am sure you will build a very nice boat. Because you have a lot of experience in the construction of boats.

Success, and keep us informed.

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

Re: Thinking about building a Manta

#9354

Thanks for the update. Finding a suitable work space is today a problem

Anyway, have fun

Bernd

Le jeudi 16 juin 2022, 19:44:53 UTC+2, <marc@...> a écrit :

Well. The adage is 'begin with the end in mind'. So nothing special happened, got some quotes from plywood suppliers, we are organising missing tools, cleaning our building container...get all the steel and aluminium dust out to make space for wood dust ;-), we started to make inventory and Lilli started to get the old dirt out of our winches and we tried our luck with some epoxy fillets, to get a feeling. Too many bubbles in, but getting closer. Used old+cheap epoxy, so might effect this.
Visited some building sites close by in the last days, but these are located at smaller rivers and do not have sufficient place or are not suitable...going to call some yards in the next days. I don't want to stress myself, so I keep it easy.
Would love to build during winter time as well, so we need sth suitable. Not sure whether we want to live in the camper at -5 degrees whilst building close by.

Re: Duo 900 Italy

#9353

Hi Bernd, the track is 590 km but everything went ok. It was also a test to understand how to transport the boat ...

I am building a 10.80 MT wing mast and I think it will be ready by the end of the month, in the next few days I will post some photos on the Duo 900 Italy page.

I already have the mainsail of 9.80MT, base 3.80MT and 1.40MT at the top. Soon the small headsail will also be ready.

Re: Smaller K Designs models: small and trailerable or larger and more creature comforts

#9352

开云体育

Who was the gentleman from Saskatchewan doing a eco 6 build?

Show quoted text

On Jun 15, 2022, at 6:29 AM, Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

?
Hi Rod

?

Nice to hear that you have made the first step in building your ECO 6. And nice to read that it is also possible to get a permit for over-width transport in Canada.?

I am sure you will build a very nice boat. Because you have a lot of experience in the construction of boats.

Success, and keep us informed.

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

Re: Thinking about building a Manta

#9351

Well. The adage is 'begin with the end in mind'. So nothing special happened, got some quotes from plywood suppliers, we are organising missing tools, cleaning our building container...get all the steel and aluminium dust out to make space for wood dust ;-), we started to make inventory and Lilli started to get the old dirt out of our winches and we tried our luck with some epoxy fillets, to get a feeling. Too many bubbles in, but getting closer. Used old+cheap epoxy, so might effect this.
Visited some building sites close by in the last days, but these are located at smaller rivers and do not have sufficient place or are not suitable...going to call some yards in the next days. I don't want to stress myself, so I keep it easy.
Would love to build during winter time as well, so we need sth suitable. Not sure whether we want to live in the camper at -5 degrees whilst building close by.

Re: Duo 900 Italy

#9350

Chiao Domenico

A wise decision. Some distance from Puglia to Sizily. How many kilometers?
I like your mythological comparison. I get your drift. There is a big difference between
the KD 122 and the DUO 900. The DUO 900 is more or less finished I suppose.
Have you a rig for the boat?

Cheers

Bernd

Duo 900 Italy

#9349

Hi Bernd

I transported the Duo 900 to the same shed where the KD122 is, so as to alternate work on both boats.

From my home (Puglia) in southern Calabria road transport of the Duo 900 everything is ok.

Now as in the mythology of ancient Rome, the great Jupiter and the small Mercury. :-))

duo.jpg