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Re: just raising Bernd's frustration level
Thank you David for chipping in and telling your contemplating. Trailering a beamy catamaran is never big fun. Besides that, a trailer can cost as much as the boat (without a rig). Coming to the rig. Financing the amount of material is one thing. A commercial rig for the boat will cost at least as much as the costs for the material needed. This is the reason, I try, that customers can build their own rig. For example, the Gunter rig. Besides, that it is a very effective rig. You were going a step further. Many persons see a gaff rig as a relique. Modern fat headsails are principal the same!! Only as you have shown, for a fraction of the costs.?
You have also built your furler. People, it is no big deal to build your own. I mentioned it already in my post before these. I did this already on our Pinguin 1969. There existed no big furlers at this time. Also no mainsails with furlers. I was the first to develop them. Ted Hood claimed it, but he was later
I like that you mention the aft mast rig and the expected handling. Kotters are out of vogue today. I used it also on our Pinguin. Never a problem. By the way when you use a jib and code 1 at the same time, handling is the same.
The photo, nice setting, thanks.
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Cheers
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Bernd |
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Re: Seattle Eco 55 power cat build
Hi Phil
You know that I like what you do. Your videos are very informative too. To replace the lead-acid batteries and use Lipos would help also to get the weight down. Funny wedges. The help in any case to hold the direction of the boat. Lacy as I am I had made them from 2mm stainless steel. Keep us posted special in the light that two other houseboats, respectively builders, stopped their work I presume.? Cheers Bernd |
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Re: just raising Bernd's frustration level
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHello Michael, ? Being an Eco 6 builder and owner perhaps I can respond to your email. ? To start with the Eco 6; If you want a comfortable boat for 2 people for either day sailing or cruising then the Eco 6 is the boat. There is a wonderful amount of space inside, especially with the modification to the aft cabin bulkhead which I did. I moved that bulkhead 200mm further aft and made it vertical. This has almost doubled the amount of volume in after cabin area. The Eco 6 will also be the more robust sailing boat because of it¡¯s size. With regard to the rig, you do not need to spend a lot of money on a commercially made mast. You can go to the designed gunter rig, or as I did, I changed the rig to a gaff main with a slightly larger jib. My mast is a 6.7 meter length of 100mm alloy tube, and I made all my mast fittings, so the rig cost very little money. I also made my own furler for the jib, so once again very little money spent. Cons of the Eco 6 ¨C it is not really a trailerable boat because of the beam, I keep mine on a mooring. Also being the biggest of the designs it is going to take the longest to build, you are probably looking at 2 years minimum, probably more for a part time builder. ? That really leaves Eco 5.5, Duo 480, or the new Eco 5.20. I personally would build the 5.20. Unlike the Eco 5.5 it does not need a centerboard, or keels. This is because of the asymmetric hull shape. I do not think the rig would present problems tacking. I have owned 3 cutter rig yachts, that is two headsails, a staysail, and a genoa or yankee on the forestay. I have sailed each of these boats extensively including ocean crossing, and I never had any particular problem getting the front sail around the staysail. The rig for 5.20 will be relatively inexpensive to build yourself, and you can make your own furlers. Yes there will be a bit of a tangle of rigging to sort out with the forestays and shrouds, but that is more about how things are organised, and it will be no worse than any other trailerable yacht. ? The Eco 5.5 will maybe have a bit more space inside, but will not be as simple to build as the 5.20, and if you are going to build the Eco 5.5, then you may as well spend a little more time and money and build the Eco 6 because you get so much more boat. That is why I built the Eco 6 rather than the 5.5. ? That leaves the Duo 480. That really is quite a small boat for two people. I think that a little bit more investment in time and money would give the 5.20 which would be a more spacious boat. The 480 does have a very simple rig though with free standing masts, but then you need two of them. ? You talk about the cost of mooring a boat, and I guess that depends on mooring costs in your local area, but keep in mind that it is going to cost quite a lot of money for a suitable trailer. I like having our boat on a mooring. Our boat is kept in a local harbour with many beautiful beaches and islands close by. So on a Saturday morning we can leave home at 0900, and by 1000 we can be at anchor in a remote bay enjoy a morning cup of tea, (Photo attached), so for me the quick convenience of a mooring far outweighs keeping the boat on a trailer and having to launch every time I go sailing. ? And finally, as you pointed out you can go out a buy a ready made Tiki catamaran, That is a fairly quick solution and it is going to save you a lot of time and hard work. Tikis are good little catamarans, but they do not have the comfort and shelter that Bernd¡¯s bridgedeck catamarans have. There are some other small catamaran designs available, but I do not think that any of them are as good as what Bernd has designed. ? Good luck figuring out just what you want to do. ? David |
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Re: just raising Bernd's frustration level
Michael Mitchell
Decided on the 520? ! On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 8:33 AM Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote: Hi Michael |
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Re: just raising Bernd's frustration level
Hi Michael,?
it is easy to understand your frustration. All these designs have got a lot going for them. The trick is to decide what the majority of your use will be and how far you have to trail the boat when you go sailing. Small boats like the tiny tri are always going to be wet to sail like a beach cat but are easy to tow and quick to rig. The bigger boats are very dry to sail and you have got the back of the cabin to tuck yourself in behind if the wind gets a bit cool. In New Zealand here David Thatcher has built his beautiful 6, always with the intention of keeping it on a mooring. That gets round the issue of expensive trailers and the awkwardness of launching a bigger boat. Fabulous boat , and looks even better in real time than in photos . The 5.5 is similar, just a bit smaller. Still quite a big boat to tow if you are travelling a long way to launch, and would need a good boat ramp, like the 6. The 520 looks an exciting design, covers all the bases really except for the unknown factor of building the rig. With the 5.5 or the 6 there is the option of adapting a second hand rig. I have been lucky to see and follow the progress of both a 5.5 and a 6 being built so I can testify how spacious they are inside for what are still relatively small boats. The 480 is a fun boat. When I discovered that it is easy to beach launch a lot of my hassles disappeared. I used to launch from a crowded marina and then spend the whole time time worrying about threading my way back in and then finding a crowded ramp in the narrow rock lined channels that marina designers seem to delight in building. The rig for the 480 can be done in different ways according to budget. The 480 has a smaller cabin space than the others, theres no way around that. Of course you could build the long cabin version but that cuts down the wonderfull roomy cockpit that is a great feature of the 480. It is really a cuddy cabin but the back bulkhead on the small cabin version is 851 mm = 33.5 inches, not 24 as you stated. I also made my hatch a little bigger and it hinges forward which opens the cabin area up. An added advantage of the bi plane rig is that in medium conditions you can stand up in the cabin doorway and steer the boat with the tiller extension. All these boats take time to build, and the more cabin you have , the longer time to build, depending on experience. But they dont build themselves so you have to be able to commit regular time to the project. Im sure builders of the models you have mentioned would happily answer any further questions you have, as would I regarding the 480. You can pm if there are detailed questions that are beyond what of is interest to members on the main forum. Bernd is great with support on every build too. There have been 4 of Bernds designs (that I know of) that have been built near me and all have been completed with a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction along the way regards Bryan Cox |
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Re: Seattle Eco 55 power cat build
Hi Phil
I answered principally you already. The improvements are clearly visible. The transom turbulent is significantly less. The wedges are interesting. Something new for me.? Thank you. Good thinking to have a lighter canopy.? But enjoy the boat as long as the weather permits. Cheers Bernd |
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Re: just raising Bernd's frustration level
Hi Michael
I had to smile. Nothing is perfect. Everybody wants an "Eier legende Wolfs Milch Sau" (find out what it means, not to translate). Get the gist. But you forgot to mention the ECO 5.5. This boat has a lot to offer, and it sounds to me like it could fit your bill. To remember Cheers Bernd |
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Re: Another 520 question
Hi Michael
You then expected already an answer in this direction. Sorry, no way to use a sloop rig. I have no clue how to support the mast. The roller furler I would make by myself. Top swivels are not expensive. The drums are easy to make. Do not use Aluminum proviles. They are heavy and unreliable There is a lot of information on the Internet to build them by yourself.? The information using Keflar in this way is mixed. I can give you no advice in this direction. In any case double the glass fiber on the bottom. Cheers Bernd |
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Re: David's Cataproa
Hi David
First, I understand your way of thinking. You made the boat better suitable for two persons. As I mentioned I like how you have modified the boat for your personal requirements. The Covid situation is used on the stock market to exacerbate the prices for raw materials. Not only for wood but for potatoes too, and any other basic products. It is almost criminal!! We, as consumers can do nothing about it. Back to the boat. Nice that you had the opportunity to find, like the carbon fiber mast for such a low price. It is always interesting to look around for useful bargains. There exists now boat scrapyards, full of plastic boots nobody knows how to dispose of them. Look there for masts, sails, winches, anchors, and so on. Success with your build, and keep us informed Cheers Bernd |
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Re: Updated album CATAPROA, Harald, Germany #photo-notice/sail area
Berndt, ?Thank you will make 60 mm. The material I used is called Oxford in a dress shop. I just looked for close weaved material and then sucked through the material until I found some with a good resistance from letting air into my lungs. So if it is airtight enough and strong enough it is good enough for me. It cost about 2 euros per meter for 1.5 meter wide.? So the sail cost me about 20 euros. Dacron is much more expensive and difficult to get hold of. I also used the wife's elna dress making machine for sewing. So I cannot use material that become too difficult to sew. Regards Philip Malan
On Tuesday, 7 September 2021, 17:38:23 SAST, Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:
Hi Philip No, make him 60mm Cheers Bernd Any thoughts about my questions? |
Bernd Kohler
bryanandmarycox
Philip Malan