|
So what makes a Guitar for Jazz music Traditionally it would be a Semi Acoustic deep bodied guitar? Now when it comes to the scale and the number of frets there are a lot of different views The older guitars tend to have less frets than the more modern? Pickups tend to be mini humbucker in the neck position Scale lengths varies as much as style but 25.5" tends to be the modern norm Woods are important to the real Jazz players the more select and older the better (its all about bass tone (not Bass like bass guitar but bass as something that builds tone with colour) so a fairly simple format ???????????? So why did jazz guitars not evolve in the same way as most electric guitars That was the question that got me thinking about how to evolve a Jazz guitar yet keep that good jazz look. I went right back to the drawing board and decided on a look first (I liked a guitar that I had seen in the 1960's so I decided to make mine as a simple facsimile. I did not know the brand of guitar when I made mine, I just knew approximately what it looked like. So first to the woodpile I used 30 year dry aged European Maple, 80 year old Honduras Mahogany (it had been an antique Dining Table the wood was probably older than 80 years but I traced the table back 80 years, 35 year old dry aged Sitka Spruce and then some 100+ year old Ebony (bought from Jim Burns in the 1980's) So now I had my wood and the design in mind. I wanted a BIG Deep bodied jazz box I made the top and back by laminating slabs of wood together in a solid sandwich The back is made from Maple, Mahogany, Maple. The top is made from Spuce, Mahogany, Spruce. These slabs were then carved back to from my arch top and back revealing a red stripe of Mahogany the follows the line of the guitar. The sides are made from the same maple as the back. The neck is formed by Maple, Mahogany and Maple. The neck has a full Volute at the headstock which is faced with Ebony. all the inlay to the headstock and neck is Mother of pearl. the binding is Mahogany, Maple, Ebony, Maple, Ebony. This is used on the Headstock, Neck and the body. Now for anther change in the evolution 24 frets with full access from the sing Cutaway.? Next change I decided to get away from the 15" 16" and 17" bodies and went for an 18" wide guitar like the 1931 George Abbott Musicmaster that I own.? 7" deep at the deepest part? made this a Jumbo Semi. Now there are some things that really should not be changed like the SOUND of a Jazz Box (at least when it comes to the Humbucker)? I opted for a Benedetto S6 floating Humbucker attacked to my Flamed Maple Pickguard. The tuners I used were Gold and Black Planet Wave locking and self trimming (no more strings in your eyeball!!!) then I wanted MORE (MORE BOY did you say MORE??!!!!) Yep I wanted MORE so I wanted the acoustic sound as well as the electric and I wanted to be able to mix them in a stereo output? I also wanted the guitar to be able to access MIDI, the only trouble is laggggggggg I hated the lag that you got with the Roland HEX pickup, and three separate pickup systems would make for an ugly guitar. Also nobody made a Bridge system that had individual Piezo for a jazz guitar (at least not a proper Wooden Floating Bridge with wooden saddles. So I had to MAKE MY OWN. I embedded each pickup under the saddles which were then bonded back onto the floating adjustable bridge.? So I ended up with a Jazz box that still looked like a jazz box but that had a midi system that works from Micro Vibration rather than a hex pickup so nothing to soil the look. the acoustic side I added a "Dark Sound" board which is switchable between Natural and Dark . Midi even though most midi is 7 pin din Roland footboards and Midi amps use a 13 pin din So we wired a 13 in Roland out as well as the Stereo/Mono Jack. The guitar can now be used with any of the pickups individually or a mix of any and all. Custom Made Solid Brass Output Plate on the side bottom bout. On the upper top bout there is likewise a solid brass plate that carries all the controls. Turned Rosewood tone and volume controls and Mix control along with 4 Micro toggles give access the all the electronics buried deep inside the bowels of this guitar.? the whole system is run using 18volts a pair of 9vlt PP3 in a bottle fitted carrier. The view from the front it looks like they way I remembered the guitar I saw way back in the early 1960's (which turned out to be a Musima Record, even though I did not know that when I set about making it. The think a lot of you will be asking and probably the most important thing HOW DOES IT PLAY?????? Imagine you have something like a 335 or a BB King or say a slim neck on a SJ200 so it fast neck with a glorious easy action all the way up to the 24th fret Sound-wise it has the generic Jazz sound but with a fuller tone on the Benedetto humbucker It is quite loud acoustically too, the Piezo sounds great and oh boy when you switch to the "Dark Acoustic" its a dream then Mix the Humbucker and you have a beautiful layered and full sound. Now add in a superb fast tracking midi instrument you are a guitar GOD? Remember Midi is not just about extra instruments you can use the midi to control Lighting Rigs or even use it to set of Pyrotechnics on stage at the right time. The is no limit to midi only your own mind!     ?
|
Hi Ken,
What a beautiful guitar! Do you sell your creations?
Thanks, Arnold?
|
Yes sir I do and most of my creations tend to be one offs
This Jazz box was 18 months in design and build
and made to an ultra high spec (as are all of my guitars) although most are just relatively normal guitars 335esque
I do copy the same guitar system into a homage guitar to the late great BBK?
the only other guitar that I loaded a similar system into was a solid state 335 sized SG which also has actives as does a 12 string version that I made
My guitars tend to all have Coil Tap/Phase/series parallel switching thus allowing a greater tonal range
?
I should point out that in the big ONE OFF Midi Jazz Box has ?2.3k worth of hardware loaded into it which cost me a further ?650 to have Mark Seddon of Oxbow Guitars work the bugs out of (he is an electronic genius)
without all the bells and whistles the guitar is still a fantastic big jazz box?
|
|
|
On 12/8/2022 3:27 PM, kenn@... wrote: So why did jazz guitars not evolve in the same way as most electric guitars Because too many 'jazz' guitarists believe that the essence of jazz guitar is in copying jazz guitarists of the past. That is sad, but it is true. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
|
On 12/8/2022 3:27 PM, kenn@... wrote: So why did jazz guitars not evolve in the same way as most electric guitars Because too many 'jazz' guitarists believe that the essence of jazz guitar is in copying jazz guitarists of the past in every way imaginable from guitars, to strings, to picks, to amps, to pups, to lines, and probably even to tunes picked to play.. That is sad, but it is true. If they have their way, we'll all be recording to 78rpm mono. Question - Is your midi system essentially the same as was used by Brian Moore? -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
|
You have hit the nail on the head when the likes of Django Reinhardt started to play Electric Guitar they at that time were looked upon by the purists of the time as the spawn of the very devil himself We have seen the same across so many differing styles of music Take folk music for instance generally seen by other genres as singer standing with a finger in one ear creating their harmonies in their heads. I played in a folk band that broke the mould we had a 20,000watt PA System and used Electric Guitars and Keyboards. Country Music banned electric Guitars in the Opre until after the Death of the great Hank Williams. Garth brooks uses a 100yard stage and runs across it like a man possessed classed as country but more akin to ZZ Top. I have worked with some great but unknown visionaries. One upon a time I played guitar in a electric Guitar Scottish dance band that was primarily Fiddle and Accordion based However one of the accordion players used a basic midi system again that was frowned upon by the Scottish Buttons & Bows society,.as Midi was somehow cheating. I know from my own use of midi guitars it takes a bit more knowlege to use. Jazz Guitarists love to use Reverb on their guitars. yet would never dream of using a wah wah pedal or and Ibanez Screamer. so why is one added effect better than say another. I have seen jazz guitarists use the likes of a Chapman tapping stick or a 7 or 10 string guitar. most instruments and sounds have evolved over the years. What makes a Jazz sound????? sound like Jazz. Midi is the greatest underused tool in the musical tool box. One of the preferred amps of Jazz guitarist is the Roland and Roland Cube which now has a midi input allowing the change of many and varied amplifier types. When I changed from a Marshall I changed to? Line 6 Spider Valve a relatively cheap amp and having inbuilt Multi FX. My peers told me I should use a bigger name and better brand. and they ran off lists of brands from Peavey to Roland and from Yamaha to Carvin some even mentioned that I should get a Bogner. at least until I pointed to the badge on the front of my 2x12 Combo. I owned a Bogner spider Valve by Line 6. the front end of the amp (the input stages with the FX built in) was designed and made by Line 6, the output stage was a pure Valve amp and cab designed for line 6 by Mr's Bognor and co. and when played Next to a "Real Bogner" in a clean (No FX) setting Not only did they sound the same but the Line 6 actually had more headroom by a country mile. The point being is we first need to be convinced before we change. and that also refers to the Brand Name of the Guitars we buy and use. This is one of the places where Jazz Guitarist tend to stand head and shoulders above the other Genres. If you play Rock then you probably play a Gibson/Fender/Ibanez guitar.
If you play Country then you probably play a Gretsch/Martin/Fender Guitar. Folk you will play a Martin or a similar guitar. Now I know from the number of people who have bought my guitars (at least the "Ordinary Guitar using standard Pickups) that the Jazz fraternity are quite happy to buy outside the box. A Jazz guitarist wants a Guitar to be the best tool in his tool box and not the mass produced in some Chinese factory and hand made guitar will always have that individual quality. to name a couple of Jazz Guitarists who own some of my guitars "Freddie Piriotta, Frederick Wisdom."? So fundamentally it is all about changing the stick in the mud mindsets??
|
Kenn,
That's a mouthful, for sure and for the most part I agree, but it's not just guitar players: Ornette caught a bunch of s**t for playing a plastic sax, and "everybody" had a cow when Miles put a Fender Rhodes in the band, never mind the wah-wah trumpet. I think humans tend to get "comfortable" until somebody (like Django or Jimi) comes along and breaks the mold, that's just the "cycle".?
I'd say jazz guitar has stayed static more b/c of the instrument than the players; people like EVH, Mahavishnu, Stanley Jordan, and Holdsworth are "exceptions" and what they create is very beautiful but it's a long and arduous road to get there. Most of us are content to attain a certain level of competence, technique, or ability to express, and stay right there.
The other thing is that the guitar's history is much different from that of other instruments: it was a "populist" instrument played primarily by women and drunks. It wasn't until Segovia brought it into the concert hall that it began to gain some respect. Even these days, guitar is the "Rodney Dangerfield" of instruments in that it doesn't get much "respect". The assumption is that "anybody can play it", and that's not entirely untrue, at least on a very basic level. That's also partly why stuff like tabs is so popular, and most guitar players would rather buy books/CDs/DVDs/secret decoder rings/etc, instead of taking lessons...?
Nice post if a bit difficult to read.
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
From: kenn@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, Dec 11, 2022 1:57 am
Subject: Re: [Jazz-Guitar] Midi Guitar specifically for Jazz
You have hit the nail on the head when the likes of Django Reinhardt started to play Electric Guitar they at that time were looked upon by the purists of the time as the spawn of the very devil himself We have seen the same across so many differing styles of music Take folk music for instance generally seen by other genres as singer standing with a finger in one ear creating their harmonies in their heads. I played in a folk band that broke the mould we had a 20,000watt PA System and used Electric Guitars and Keyboards. Country Music banned electric Guitars in the Opre until after the Death of the great Hank Williams. Garth brooks uses a 100yard stage and runs across it like a man possessed classed as country but more akin to ZZ Top. I have worked with some great but unknown visionaries. One upon a time I played guitar in a electric Guitar Scottish dance band that was primarily Fiddle and Accordion based However one of the accordion players used a basic midi system again that was frowned upon by the Scottish Buttons & Bows society,.as Midi was somehow cheating. I know from my own use of midi guitars it takes a bit more knowlege to use. Jazz Guitarists love to use Reverb on their guitars. yet would never dream of using a wah wah pedal or and Ibanez Screamer. so why is one added effect better than say another. I have seen jazz guitarists use the likes of a Chapman tapping stick or a 7 or 10 string guitar. most instruments and sounds have evolved over the years. What makes a Jazz sound????? sound like Jazz. Midi is the greatest underused tool in the musical tool box. One of the preferred amps of Jazz guitarist is the Roland and Roland Cube which now has a midi input allowing the change of many and varied amplifier types. When I changed from a Marshall I changed to? Line 6 Spider Valve a relatively cheap amp and having inbuilt Multi FX. My peers told me I should use a bigger name and better brand. and they ran off lists of brands from Peavey to Roland and from Yamaha to Carvin some even mentioned that I should get a Bogner. at least until I pointed to the badge on the front of my 2x12 Combo. I owned a Bogner spider Valve by Line 6. the front end of the amp (the input stages with the FX built in) was designed and made by Line 6, the output stage was a pure Valve amp and cab designed for line 6 by Mr's Bognor and co. and when played Next to a "Real Bogner" in a clean (No FX) setting Not only did they sound the same but the Line 6 actually had more headroom by a country mile. The point being is we first need to be convinced before we change. and that also refers to the Brand Name of the Guitars we buy and use. This is one of the places where Jazz Guitarist tend to stand head and shoulders above the other Genres. If you play Rock then you probably play a Gibson/Fender/Ibanez guitar.
If you play Country then you probably play a Gretsch/Martin/Fender Guitar. Folk you will play a Martin or a similar guitar. Now I know from the number of people who have bought my guitars (at least the "Ordinary Guitar using standard Pickups) that the Jazz fraternity are quite happy to buy outside the box. A Jazz guitarist wants a Guitar to be the best tool in his tool box and not the mass produced in some Chinese factory and hand made guitar will always have that individual quality. to name a couple of Jazz Guitarists who own some of my guitars "Freddie Piriotta, Frederick Wisdom."? So fundamentally it is all about changing the stick in the mud mindsets??
|
Very well stated, Juan. Greg
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 11, 2022, at 11:29 AM, jvegatrio via groups.io <JVegaTrio@...> wrote:
?
Kenn,
That's a mouthful, for sure and for the most part I agree, but it's not just guitar players: Ornette caught a bunch of s**t for playing a plastic sax, and "everybody" had a cow when Miles put a Fender Rhodes in the band, never mind the wah-wah trumpet. I think humans tend to get "comfortable" until somebody (like Django or Jimi) comes along and breaks the mold, that's just the "cycle".?
I'd say jazz guitar has stayed static more b/c of the instrument than the players; people like EVH, Mahavishnu, Stanley Jordan, and Holdsworth are "exceptions" and what they create is very beautiful but it's a long and arduous road to get there. Most of us are content to attain a certain level of competence, technique, or ability to express, and stay right there.
The other thing is that the guitar's history is much different from that of other instruments: it was a "populist" instrument played primarily by women and drunks. It wasn't until Segovia brought it into the concert hall that it began to gain some respect. Even these days, guitar is the "Rodney Dangerfield" of instruments in that it doesn't get much "respect". The assumption is that "anybody can play it", and that's not entirely untrue, at least on a very basic level. That's also partly why stuff like tabs is so popular, and most guitar players would rather buy books/CDs/DVDs/secret decoder rings/etc, instead of taking lessons...?
Nice post if a bit difficult to read.
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
From: kenn@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, Dec 11, 2022 1:57 am
Subject: Re: [Jazz-Guitar] Midi Guitar specifically for Jazz
You have hit the nail on the head when the likes of Django Reinhardt started to play Electric Guitar they at that time were looked upon by the purists of the time as the spawn of the very devil himself We have seen the same across so many differing styles of music Take folk music for instance generally seen by other genres as singer standing with a finger in one ear creating their harmonies in their heads. I played in a folk band that broke the mould we had a 20,000watt PA System and used Electric Guitars and Keyboards. Country Music banned electric Guitars in the Opre until after the Death of the great Hank Williams. Garth brooks uses a 100yard stage and runs across it like a man possessed classed as country but more akin to ZZ Top. I have worked with some great but unknown visionaries. One upon a time I played guitar in a electric Guitar Scottish dance band that was primarily Fiddle and Accordion based However one of the accordion players used a basic midi system again that was frowned upon by the Scottish Buttons & Bows society,.as Midi was somehow cheating. I know from my own use of midi guitars it takes a bit more knowlege to use. Jazz Guitarists love to use Reverb on their guitars. yet would never dream of using a wah wah pedal or and Ibanez Screamer. so why is one added effect better than say another. I have seen jazz guitarists use the likes of a Chapman tapping stick or a 7 or 10 string guitar. most instruments and sounds have evolved over the years. What makes a Jazz sound????? sound like Jazz. Midi is the greatest underused tool in the musical tool box. One of the preferred amps of Jazz guitarist is the Roland and Roland Cube which now has a midi input allowing the change of many and varied amplifier types. When I changed from a Marshall I changed to? Line 6 Spider Valve a relatively cheap amp and having inbuilt Multi FX. My peers told me I should use a bigger name and better brand. and they ran off lists of brands from Peavey to Roland and from Yamaha to Carvin some even mentioned that I should get a Bogner. at least until I pointed to the badge on the front of my 2x12 Combo. I owned a Bogner spider Valve by Line 6. the front end of the amp (the input stages with the FX built in) was designed and made by Line 6, the output stage was a pure Valve amp and cab designed for line 6 by Mr's Bognor and co. and when played Next to a "Real Bogner" in a clean (No FX) setting Not only did they sound the same but the Line 6 actually had more headroom by a country mile. The point being is we first need to be convinced before we change. and that also refers to the Brand Name of the Guitars we buy and use. This is one of the places where Jazz Guitarist tend to stand head and shoulders above the other Genres. If you play Rock then you probably play a Gibson/Fender/Ibanez guitar.
If you play Country then you probably play a Gretsch/Martin/Fender Guitar. Folk you will play a Martin or a similar guitar. Now I know from the number of people who have bought my guitars (at least the "Ordinary Guitar using standard Pickups) that the Jazz fraternity are quite happy to buy outside the box. A Jazz guitarist wants a Guitar to be the best tool in his tool box and not the mass produced in some Chinese factory and hand made guitar will always have that individual quality. to name a couple of Jazz Guitarists who own some of my guitars "Freddie Piriotta, Frederick Wisdom."? So fundamentally it is all about changing the stick in the mud mindsets??
|
When I earned to play Guitar, I was 13 years old and living a remote part of the Highlands Of Scotland. My mother played Piano and I tunes the guitar to an open chord and then just worked out chord sounds by listening to folks like The Beatles on the Radio. (we did not have the luxury of a TV.?
What you said about the popularist side of Guitar was very true in my youth (back in the 1960's) whilst I made Jazz boxes for others I was never really good enough to be able to play Jazz. But this has got me to thinking of what is it that makes Jazz, Jazz?
who is it that says it has to be played this way or that way? I played folk music but I played it in a bit of a rock style so that got pigeon holes as Folk
Is there such a genre as Jazz Folk or Jazz Country and I not why not? Why do we have to play within set boundaries set by people who died 100 years before our birth?
When Elvis Presley started out he would tour with the "Louisiana Hayride" which was labelled at the time American Folk and then later it was called Country Music. Now country music in Scotland is nothing like what you would imagine Country Music to be it is closer to folk than country almost a regression. Does garth Brooks play Country music and if so what makes it so. as far as I am concerned Garth brooks is on the side of Light Rock or Pop music.?
At the end of the day we all play Music. Each country has its on sub genres of that title. Surely music is what feels sympathetic to our individual hearing. A guitar is a Genre of instrument which all date back to the 15th Century when the vihuela, and before that there would have been instruments like the Dulcimer and the Lyre. A simple stringed instrument with a soundbox. It evolved into the basic modern day shape which is still evolving. There still remains some argument between who made the first electric guitar some say George Beauchamp and Adolf Rickenbacker who came up with the "Frying Pan Electric Guitar" Strangely this was adopted by Jazz Guitarists and really was nothing more than an early Lap Steel, more commonly used by Country Guitarists these days.
What this tells me is that at the start of the Jazz era early guitarists were happier to try new technology than they are today. Jazz musicians were experimenters not just with sound but with instruments and scales. What was Jazz in the 1930's would probably be referred to as Blues or swing by NON jazz players these days.
I would never call myself a great guitarist. I would however lay claim to knowing the mechanics of a guitar and how to generate differing tones by choice of wood. ie the Denser the wood the brighter the tone the deeper the body on an acoustic guitar the deeper the tone. brightness comes from the neck and the upper bout depth comes from the table and the lower bout. Take a listen to a Mariachi band? where the tones are separated from tenor to bass. Is there any reason for the F holes in an electric guitar? thats a whole other argument.?
So in conclusion to this reply I have still the question WHAT makes Jazz, Jazz and why will Jazz Musicians not evolve as the other Genre's have?
|
Kenn,
Quick reply: among the things that make "jazz" "jazz" (and I'm painting with a really wide brush) are European instruments and song forms coupled with African polyrhythms and improvisation. I also strongly believe true "jazz" has its roots in the blues, but that's a discussion for another day...?
I respectfully disagree; jazz guitar has evolved and grown over time. Guitar-wise, Pat Martino, eg, is very "evolved" from someone like Eddie Lang or Charlie Christian and McLaughlin or Holdsworth are quite evolved from early jazz guitar pioneers. Labels are a convenient and easy way to try to categorize or provide a framework for organizing things in music, much like when you go to the supermarket, where the aisles are stocked in a certain way. They also make it easier to make music more "generic" for marketing purposes. The same way you wouldn't go into a Japanese restaurant expecting to find pizza, you might pick up a "jazz" record and not expect to hear punk or mariachi.
I think if you take a step back you might find jazz guitar has evolved, and at a pretty respectable pace, but as I said before, the instrument has its limitations. Think about it: with perhaps the exception of keyboards and the advent of the synthesizer, pretty much all other instruments played in jazz music are still the same, no? What "evolves" is the music; the instruments are just a way to express it, imo.
Oh, and I can't stand mariachi music, or barbershop q'tet, for that matter. ;)
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
From: kenn@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2022 4:12 am
Subject: Re: [Jazz-Guitar] Midi Guitar specifically for Jazz
When I earned to play Guitar, I was 13 years old and living a remote part of the Highlands Of Scotland. My mother played Piano and I tunes the guitar to an open chord and then just worked out chord sounds by listening to folks like The Beatles on the Radio. (we did not have the luxury of a TV.?
What you said about the popularist side of Guitar was very true in my youth (back in the 1960's) whilst I made Jazz boxes for others I was never really good enough to be able to play Jazz. But this has got me to thinking of what is it that makes Jazz, Jazz?
who is it that says it has to be played this way or that way? I played folk music but I played it in a bit of a rock style so that got pigeon holes as Folk
Is there such a genre as Jazz Folk or Jazz Country and I not why not? Why do we have to play within set boundaries set by people who died 100 years before our birth?
When Elvis Presley started out he would tour with the "Louisiana Hayride" which was labelled at the time American Folk and then later it was called Country Music. Now country music in Scotland is nothing like what you would imagine Country Music to be it is closer to folk than country almost a regression. Does garth Brooks play Country music and if so what makes it so. as far as I am concerned Garth brooks is on the side of Light Rock or Pop music.?
At the end of the day we all play Music. Each country has its on sub genres of that title. Surely music is what feels sympathetic to our individual hearing. A guitar is a Genre of instrument which all date back to the 15th Century when the vihuela, and before that there would have been instruments like the Dulcimer and the Lyre. A simple stringed instrument with a soundbox. It evolved into the basic modern day shape which is still evolving. There still remains some argument between who made the first electric guitar some say George Beauchamp and Adolf Rickenbacker who came up with the "Frying Pan Electric Guitar" Strangely this was adopted by Jazz Guitarists and really was nothing more than an early Lap Steel, more commonly used by Country Guitarists these days.
What this tells me is that at the start of the Jazz era early guitarists were happier to try new technology than they are today. Jazz musicians were experimenters not just with sound but with instruments and scales. What was Jazz in the 1930's would probably be referred to as Blues or swing by NON jazz players these days.
I would never call myself a great guitarist. I would however lay claim to knowing the mechanics of a guitar and how to generate differing tones by choice of wood. ie the Denser the wood the brighter the tone the deeper the body on an acoustic guitar the deeper the tone. brightness comes from the neck and the upper bout depth comes from the table and the lower bout. Take a listen to a Mariachi band? where the tones are separated from tenor to bass. Is there any reason for the F holes in an electric guitar? thats a whole other argument.?
So in conclusion to this reply I have still the question WHAT makes Jazz, Jazz and why will Jazz Musicians not evolve as the other Genre's have?
|
As a NON Jazz musician I bow to your greater knowledge on the topic when I was talking about the evolvement of the Guitar I refer to the actual instrument rather than just the Guitarist. I moved on the outside circle of Jazz guitars merely making the instruments and is some cases Making them to order in a specific style as in the one being played by Simon Jones? in an acoustic jam set duo with 80's pop legend Jane Kennaway?
with so many variations of midi guitar around I just wondered why Jazz failed to pick up on it as a Lead tool? or even use it to control Lights etc etc (says the man who last used it to trigger lights and pyro's on stage and to layers instruments into the guitar sound)?
I be a heathen called to the dark side ;)
|
Kenn,
Holdsworth played a SynthAxe (sp?) and Pat Metheny also used MIDI for quite a while. I've tried using it and the tracking was a pain so...?
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
From: kenn@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2022 8:47 am
Subject: Re: [Jazz-Guitar] Midi Guitar specifically for Jazz
As a NON Jazz musician I bow to your greater knowledge on the topic when I was talking about the evolvement of the Guitar I refer to the actual instrument rather than just the Guitarist. I moved on the outside circle of Jazz guitars merely making the instruments and is some cases Making them to order in a specific style as in the one being played by Simon Jones? in an acoustic jam set duo with 80's pop legend Jane Kennaway?
with so many variations of midi guitar around I just wondered why Jazz failed to pick up on it as a Lead tool? or even use it to control Lights etc etc (says the man who last used it to trigger lights and pyro's on stage and to layers instruments into the guitar sound)?
I be a heathen called to the dark side ;)
|
I own several Carvin 3-voice instruments. The Model is SH-575. A bit like a hollowbody Les Paul with special electronics.And I have used them in a "jazz" setting.
Never used them for lighting or pyro though.
?
Scott Dercks
---------- Original Message ---------- From: kenn@... To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Jazz-Guitar] Midi Guitar specifically for Jazz Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 08:47:07 -0800 As a NON Jazz musician I bow to your greater knowledge on the topic when I was talking about the evolvement of the Guitar I refer to the actual instrument rather than just the Guitarist. I moved on the outside circle of Jazz guitars merely making the instruments and is some cases Making them to order in a specific style as in the one being played by Simon Jones? in an acoustic jam set duo with 80's pop legend Jane Kennaway? with so many variations of midi guitar around I just wondered why Jazz failed to pick up on it as a Lead tool? or even use it to control Lights etc etc (says the man who last used it to trigger lights and pyro's on stage and to layers instruments into the guitar sound)? I be a heathen called to the dark side ;)
|
jvegatrio wrote:
Holdsworth played a SynthAxe (sp?) and Pat
Metheny also used MIDI for quite a while.
While we're itemizing, I'll add that Pat Martino played a
custom-built Koontz guitar with onboard synthesizer on the
"Starbright" album. This was before the existence of MIDI. I read
an interview with him around that time in which he said that he
did not continue to play the instrument because of its substantial
weight.
Jay
|
I think you sent this to the wrong address(?).
On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 02:57:03 PM EST, Arnold Smith via groups.io <brotherterry2000@...> wrote:
Hi Ken,
What a beautiful guitar! Do you sell your creations?
Thanks, Arnold?
|
Yes sir I do and most of my creations tend to be one offs This Jazz box was 18 months in design and build and made to an ultra high spec (as are all of my guitars) although most are just relatively normal guitars 335esque I do copy the same guitar system into a homage guitar to the late great BBK? the only other guitar that I loaded a similar system into was a solid state 335 sized SG which also has actives as does a 12 string version that I made My guitars tend to all have Coil Tap/Phase/series parallel switching thus allowing a greater tonal range
I should point out that in the big ONE OFF Midi Jazz Box has ?2.3k worth of hardware loaded into it which cost me a further ?650 to have Mark Seddon of Oxbow Guitars work the bugs out of (he is an electronic genius) without all the bells and whistles the guitar is still a fantastic big jazz box?
On Friday, 9 December 2022 at 19:57:14 GMT, Arnold Smith via groups.io <brotherterry2000@...> wrote:
Hi Ken,
What a beautiful guitar! Do you sell your creations?
Thanks, Arnold?
|
I think you sent your email to the wrong address(?).
On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 04:12:27 PM EST, <kenn@...> wrote:
|
Peter-
Great respomse!
Thanks.
Mark
On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 01:00:28 PM EST, Greg Shilakis via groups.io <gregs2868@...> wrote:
Very well stated, Juan. Greg
On Dec 11, 2022, at 11:29 AM, jvegatrio via groups.io <JVegaTrio@...> wrote:
?
Kenn,
That's a mouthful, for sure and for the most part I agree, but it's not just guitar players: Ornette caught a bunch of s**t for playing a plastic sax, and "everybody" had a cow when Miles put a Fender Rhodes in the band, never mind the wah-wah trumpet. I think humans tend to get "comfortable" until somebody (like Django or Jimi) comes along and breaks the mold, that's just the "cycle".?
I'd say jazz guitar has stayed static more b/c of the instrument than the players; people like EVH, Mahavishnu, Stanley Jordan, and Holdsworth are "exceptions" and what they create is very beautiful but it's a long and arduous road to get there. Most of us are content to attain a certain level of competence, technique, or ability to express, and stay right there.
The other thing is that the guitar's history is much different from that of other instruments: it was a "populist" instrument played primarily by women and drunks. It wasn't until Segovia brought it into the concert hall that it began to gain some respect. Even these days, guitar is the "Rodney Dangerfield" of instruments in that it doesn't get much "respect". The assumption is that "anybody can play it", and that's not entirely untrue, at least on a very basic level. That's also partly why stuff like tabs is so popular, and most guitar players would rather buy books/CDs/DVDs/secret decoder rings/etc, instead of taking lessons...?
Nice post if a bit difficult to read.
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
From: kenn@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, Dec 11, 2022 1:57 am
Subject: Re: [Jazz-Guitar] Midi Guitar specifically for Jazz
You have hit the nail on the head when the likes of Django Reinhardt started to play Electric Guitar they at that time were looked upon by the purists of the time as the spawn of the very devil himself We have seen the same across so many differing styles of music Take folk music for instance generally seen by other genres as singer standing with a finger in one ear creating their harmonies in their heads. I played in a folk band that broke the mould we had a 20,000watt PA System and used Electric Guitars and Keyboards. Country Music banned electric Guitars in the Opre until after the Death of the great Hank Williams. Garth brooks uses a 100yard stage and runs across it like a man possessed classed as country but more akin to ZZ Top. I have worked with some great but unknown visionaries. One upon a time I played guitar in a electric Guitar Scottish dance band that was primarily Fiddle and Accordion based However one of the accordion players used a basic midi system again that was frowned upon by the Scottish Buttons & Bows society,.as Midi was somehow cheating. I know from my own use of midi guitars it takes a bit more knowlege to use. Jazz Guitarists love to use Reverb on their guitars. yet would never dream of using a wah wah pedal or and Ibanez Screamer. so why is one added effect better than say another. I have seen jazz guitarists use the likes of a Chapman tapping stick or a 7 or 10 string guitar. most instruments and sounds have evolved over the years. What makes a Jazz sound????? sound like Jazz. Midi is the greatest underused tool in the musical tool box. One of the preferred amps of Jazz guitarist is the Roland and Roland Cube which now has a midi input allowing the change of many and varied amplifier types. When I changed from a Marshall I changed to? Line 6 Spider Valve a relatively cheap amp and having inbuilt Multi FX. My peers told me I should use a bigger name and better brand. and they ran off lists of brands from Peavey to Roland and from Yamaha to Carvin some even mentioned that I should get a Bogner. at least until I pointed to the badge on the front of my 2x12 Combo. I owned a Bogner spider Valve by Line 6. the front end of the amp (the input stages with the FX built in) was designed and made by Line 6, the output stage was a pure Valve amp and cab designed for line 6 by Mr's Bognor and co. and when played Next to a "Real Bogner" in a clean (No FX) setting Not only did they sound the same but the Line 6 actually had more headroom by a country mile. The point being is we first need to be convinced before we change. and that also refers to the Brand Name of the Guitars we buy and use. This is one of the places where Jazz Guitarist tend to stand head and shoulders above the other Genres. If you play Rock then you probably play a Gibson/Fender/Ibanez guitar.
If you play Country then you probably play a Gretsch/Martin/Fender Guitar. Folk you will play a Martin or a similar guitar. Now I know from the number of people who have bought my guitars (at least the "Ordinary Guitar using standard Pickups) that the Jazz fraternity are quite happy to buy outside the box. A Jazz guitarist wants a Guitar to be the best tool in his tool box and not the mass produced in some Chinese factory and hand made guitar will always have that individual quality. to name a couple of Jazz Guitarists who own some of my guitars "Freddie Piriotta, Frederick Wisdom."? So fundamentally it is all about changing the stick in the mud mindsets??
|
Pat Metheny was using his midi guitar setup for a few tunes on his recent tour.
|
Scott Dercks