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-----Original Message-----
From: ab@... [mailto:ab@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:02 AM
To: jazz_guitar@...
Subject: [jazz_guitar] RE: Antecedent-Consequent Phrases


Hi Mike,

I am trying hard to learn jazz and, like you, I bought Bert Ligon's
book. However, I don't know quite well how I should study the stuff
in this book. I learned the outlines and played the nice outline
etudes at the back of the book. But so far it had no impact on my
playing.

That's why I am interested in the way YOU study this book. What
kind of exercises you play, how do you apply it to other tunes etc.

I would appreciate if you have the time to explain me that.

Thanks in advance.

Alain Benbassat
Belgium

Hi Alain,
It sounds like you're struggling more with finding a
practice methodology that works for YOU. It goes without
saying that this will vary from person to person and is
INDEPENDENT of whatever material you're working on at the
time (the Ligon book or whatever), but I think there are
some generalities that I would be happy to share with you.
You're probably already aware of most of them...you just
have to DO IT (to paraphrase a Nike slogan :-)). The most
important thing IMHO is to set REASONABLE SHORT-TERM GOALS
for yourself and concentrate on achieving those so you'll
continue moving forward with your playing. To do this, you
really need to stay focused because our egos are always
telling us to play what we already know well and have under
our fingers so we'll sound hip and impressive. But if you do
this every practice session, you obviously won't be making a
lot of progress. And if you're like most of us, your time is
probably very precious, so be disciplined and use your
practice time wisely. I think you'll find yourself taking
your playing to another level whenever you've accomplished a
few of your short-term goals (the "impact" you refer to
above). Basically you have to practice something (like the
Ligon outlines) until your mind and fingers can play them by
rote. At that point, they'll emerge in your playing
"naturally", in the moment, without you having to
consciously think about it. For me, that's the ultimate
goal.

Having said that, I'm sure my practice regimen is similar to
many here in that I'll take *ONE* concept, for example one
of Ligon's basic outlines, and practice it using BiaB
(Band-in-a-Box) or an Aebersold playalong. Aebersold has a
couple of excellent ones for practicing major and minor
ii-V's in sequences which you'll encounter all the time in
jazz standards or other songs (eg. around the cycle,
descending in whole tones, etc, etc). Try to learn that
outline in several different positions on your fretboard for
any given key, so you'll be able to play it at will wherever
your fingers happen to be in the middle of a song. Take
advantage of the very visual interface offered by the guitar
by always relating that outline to a chord form in the same
area of the fretboard. It's very important to be aware of
chord tones and the harmonic function of a note you play at
any given time so you can re-create a musical "color" you
like at will. That understanding will also allow you to
transplant every idea you learn and use it in many other
musical contexts or situations. After I think I've mastered
and thoroughly understand that one outline, I'll try using
it in a standard with lots of ii-V's (Stella, Just Friends,
All The Things You Are) to see how many places I can stick
it in. Again the Aebersold playalongs or BiaB are invaluable
for that. Then I'll try embellishing that outline with one
or two of the devices for that detailed in Ligon's book.
Finally as a reward to myself, I'll pick up one or two of
the transcribed "licks" related to the outline I've just
learned and try those over the same tunes. That really helps
to reinforce that particular outline while expanding my
repertoire at the same time (and makes for nice "ear candy"
after a good practice session :-)). Remember, the goal is to
drill those outlines (or anything else for that matter)
until you give no more thought to playing them than you do
to breathing. The mechanical process should be fairly
effortless so you can concentrate on other more important
musical aspects like phrasing, good time, swinging, dynamics
and interacting with the other players. It really is a
life-long endeavour (as I'm beginning to discover :-)) so
give yourself the time to develop.

Anyway I guess the bottom line is to practice ONE concept at
a time. Bill Evans referred to this as practicing "as little
as possible". It keeps you from being overwhelmed with
trying to learn everything at once (because your ego says
you gotta sound as hip as possible NOW) and really helps you
get the basics under your fingers so you'll be well armed to
tackle something more complex later on. Like most things
which are challenging (and I find playing jazz to be
especially so) you really must "learn to walk before you can
run". Jeez, I never realized how much I love cliches. :-D
Anyway I hope this helps Alain.

Later,
Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: kuboken1@...
To: jazz_guitar@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Chords like notes


--- In jazz_guitar@y..., bebop_lives@y... wrote:
> Ken,
>
> What do you mean by 7th triads? How is that different than 4
string
> 7th chords?

7th triad is basically the same as major/minor triads except instead
of the root note, you play the corresponding 7th (major/minor or
dominant 7th)...

For example, C major triad = C E G, a C major 7th triad = B E G
(which is a Emin triad).

It is just a matter of knowing the different names and possible uses
for all the different triads. This comes in handy when you want to
do really light, minimal comping. Also, getting these down helps in
finding voicings for any other chord...

Ken

On 30 Aug 2001, at 10:44, jazz_guitar@... wrote:

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:35:54 -0400
From: "Mike Woo" <mike@...>
Subject: RE: Antecedent-Consequent Phrases

On the topic of antecedent-consequent phrases, there's an
excellent book by Bert Ligon called "Connecting Chords With
Linear Harmony" which covers this exact territory. He basically
breaks down ii-V lines into three basic "outlines", explains
WHY they work harmonically and shows you how to embellish them
so you can come up with your own (the chapter on embellishment
is worth the price alone IMHO). He then gives loads of transcribed
examples as played by famous jazzers to illustrate how the masters
use/embellish these outlines. I've amassed quite a collection of
jazz educational materials over the years, but this one has
definitely been one of the most helpful (YMMV). In any case,
it's a great way to learn how to construct your own
antecedent-consequent
phrases which really spell out the changes...a good place to start.
Highly recommended.

Mike
mike@...

-----Original Message-----
From: David E. Lee [mailto:dalee@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:21 AM
To: jazz_guitar@...
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Luthier Recommendations


Where are you located? If you're in the northeast, I'd highly recommend
Alan Carruth:



He worked with violin builder Carleen Hutchens and does very fine and
consistantly beautiful work in archtops, flattops and violin family
instruments. He works by the hour and is a fast worker. I had an archtop
built by him in '87 and I still have yet to find its peer. I've heard
raves from guitarists and bass players who've had work done by him
too. Plus, he's a really warm and honest guy.
David

Hi,

Which luthiers do you guys recommend for acoustic and electric work?
I need some stuff every once in a while that's beyond what my local
guy wants to do.

I'm looking for someone who's good, cheap and fast.

----- Original Message -----
From: <broetker@...>
To: <jazz_guitar@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:39 AM
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: reading

Melodic Rhythms for Guitar is a great book - I taught out of it for
years. If you happen to be a Band In A Box user surf on over to the
Yahoo BIAB group and there is a Zip file there with all of the
exercises from the Melodic Rhythms book. [Moderators Note: The zip
file is also in this group under Files/BIAB] If it is not there feel free
to e-mail me at broetker@...

Bob